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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by special_k on April 7, 2006, at 22:19:04
In reply to Re: Do you believe in God-why or why not?, posted by TexasChic on April 7, 2006, at 22:08:49
what kind of info could settle the issue?
Posted by SLS on April 7, 2006, at 22:32:54
In reply to Do you believe in God-why or why not?, posted by TylerJ on April 7, 2006, at 19:00:57
I believe in God. To me, this belief is the only logical outcome to the question, "Why Existence"?
Despite the debatability of that statement, I can assure you that it is my spirituality that has allowed me to live this long.
- Scott
> Just wondering about how many people here believe in God, and how many do not.
>
> I do, I've been a Christian for 23 years. Without my faith in God, I would have thrown the towel in a long time ago.
>
> Please, let's don't make this an argument. Some do, some don't, let's just respect and accept eachother no matter what our beliefs.
>
> Tyler
Posted by gabbi~1 on April 7, 2006, at 23:10:26
In reply to Re: Do you believe in God-why or why not?, posted by SLS on April 7, 2006, at 22:32:54
Yes. But certainly no God that has been popularly depicted by human beings.
I agree with Robert A. Heinlein on that one.
I believe in spirit.
I've seen 2 thing happen, that I could not explain any other way. that sounds so trite, I wish I could give all the details, but probably it would sound too outlandish anyway, or sound like I was exaggerating.I saw a first nations child healed by A native Shaman, and not of a physical illness, she was only 6 but severely disturbed. She hallucinated, she tortured animals .. This was a child I had regular contact with because at the time I worked with troubled children.
She was so young, but so exhausting I would cry after my shift was over.It couldn't have been explained by the attention she recieved from him, as he only spent a couple of hours with her. And her own mother was lovely, and gave her plenty of loving attention.
Anyway, that's one reason I believe in another level of existance that for the most part we are able to comprehend.
Posted by sleepygirl on April 8, 2006, at 1:01:45
In reply to Do you believe in God-why or why not?, posted by TylerJ on April 7, 2006, at 19:00:57
nope, just because it doesn't make "sense" to me
Posted by TylerJ on April 8, 2006, at 1:09:19
This will probably get moved to alternative.
My question is how many people here believe in God, and why or why not?I do and have so for 23 plus years. My family and I are Christians. And for me anyway, I think I would of thrown in the towel many years ago had it not been for my faith.
Please no arguments, preaching, or saying this or that religion is wrong. Let's accept eachother as we are.
Tyler
Posted by pseudoname on April 8, 2006, at 1:09:19
In reply to God and psychiatric illness..., posted by TylerJ on April 7, 2006, at 12:07:38
It will probably get moved to Social.
I do not believe in God at all. I stopped believing at about age 16. I'm now 41.
Posted by Declan on April 8, 2006, at 1:09:20
In reply to No. » TylerJ, posted by pseudoname on April 7, 2006, at 14:15:08
Uuhm, I think God is the word we give to kind of deal with things that happen to our conciousness under the influence of experience. The acquisition of polarity and dualism (cold/hot, good/bad)drives us nuts? (First tea of the day here and it's not working yet.) What type of religion says that this is hell, right here and now? (Those people the Copts have some connection with?) Then of course there's the contrary idea: The kingdom of heaven is spread before you and you don't see it. I like that too. Which is a bit like saying 'this is as good as it gets', which I'm afraid I think is true. I'd go to church if there was a liturgy left worth listening to. This question of 'do you believe it's true' is very much of our time and place. A lot of peoples of the world would think it a bit odd to ask the question. To them it's more a community event than a hypothesis. But in this part of the world such community events are a bit lifeless.
Declan
Posted by bassman on April 8, 2006, at 1:09:21
In reply to God and psychiatric illness..., posted by TylerJ on April 7, 2006, at 12:07:38
That's such a fun question. Hold onto your hat-I truly believe I've been in the presence of God and He's communicated with me (religious experience, not psychosis) and I know what "He" looks like and the depth of the mystery of God. Still with me or have I spooked you out? So to the question, "do you believe in God"-my answer is, "sure, I met Him". But the God I met was nothing like a Christian/Jewish/Islamic God-he was the Creator, totally unjudgmental and uninterested in intervening in the lives of his creatures. Here's the fun part: if I tell someone about the God I met, they'd probably decide I didn't believe in God because "He" was nothing like what they considered God.
Posted by Declan on April 8, 2006, at 1:09:22
In reply to Re: God and psychiatric illness..., posted by bassman on April 7, 2006, at 17:06:00
Ahh, I dunno about this psychosis business, but I saw a bloke in a mental hospital, and he comes up to me with this radiant face, and says 'you know I'm God, don't you?' So, OK, he's charismatic (and psychotic) and I tend to adopt the position of anyone I'm talking to, but anyway I kinda believed him, FWIW.
Declan
Posted by JaclinHyde on April 8, 2006, at 1:09:23
In reply to No. » TylerJ, posted by pseudoname on April 7, 2006, at 14:15:08
I am a unitarian universalist which is a religion that believes that there is truth in all religions. So no, I personally do not believe in God as in some old guy with a beard. I do believe that there is a higher power. A nice analogy for me is that we are all grains of sand and the beach is God. I am also psychic and that was passed down from my grandmother who was a christian but psychic also and had a hard time accepting it. I also do astrology charts.
I know, what a heathen!
JH
Posted by bassman on April 8, 2006, at 1:09:24
In reply to Re: No., posted by JaclinHyde on April 7, 2006, at 18:21:48
I'm a fellow UU heathen. :>} I accept parts of Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, and Hinduism in my beliefs.
Posted by Declan on April 8, 2006, at 1:09:25
In reply to Re: No., posted by bassman on April 7, 2006, at 18:30:44
Are the ordinary Unitarains belivers in Christianity without the Trinity? I've always been interested in those parts of yhe Nicene Creed about it....being of one substance with the father, substance and person etc. Kinda like the dialectic in Marxism in its inscrutablity.
Declan
Posted by bassman on April 8, 2006, at 1:09:26
In reply to Re: No., posted by Declan on April 7, 2006, at 18:43:45
Unitarian Universalist means "one God" as opposed to Trinitarian (three Gods, "the Trinity") and Universalist mean universal salvation, not just for those that believe in a particular way. But UU honors belief from all religions, much like Hinduism. Some UU congregations are more conservative and seem very Christian; some seem very liberal (accepting)-but most are religiously liberal.
Posted by psychopharmacon on April 8, 2006, at 3:16:27
In reply to Do you believe in God-why or why not?, posted by TylerJ on April 7, 2006, at 19:00:57
I believe in God. Why shouldn't I believe? It can't hurt anyway. I believe God is Love, and I think it's very exciting to reflect over this mystical God. I love Jesus, but maybe I need more faith, I don't know... Anyway, I don't believe God will punish people eternally because of their lack of faith. What is eternity anyway, and who can tell what biblical usage of the word, actually means? Maybe the Bible is more mystical than we Christians have traditionally though, maybe not. I'm still young, so I suppose I will understand more later.
Posted by verne on April 8, 2006, at 6:25:57
In reply to Re: Do you believe in God-why or why not?, posted by psychopharmacon on April 8, 2006, at 3:16:27
I'm with you, God is Love and Spirit, not knowable in earthly terms. There's an unseen supernatural world that is beyond our comprehension.
I experienced God at a full-gospel jacket, Spirit-filled church - the sort with laying on of hands, speaking in tongues, healing, people being "slain in the Spirit" and your basic holy rolling.
Although "God" touched me, I was never comfortable talking about God. In time, I came to reject the idea of God I had in my head, realizing it was a worldly fiction I had created. I knew God was real but any idea or image I had in my head wasn't.
It seemed like everyone had their own version, image, or idea of God. For me it got simpler and simpler when I quit trying to imagine God. Creeds and religions change but Love, and that growing Spirit of Peace, is everlasting.
All I know is that after my spiritual rebirth, Love, Hope, and Peace have increased in my life and nothing has been the same since. I'm still a mess but you should have seen me ten years ago.
vribble
Posted by Sobriquet Style on April 8, 2006, at 6:50:13
In reply to Re: God and psychiatric illness..., posted by bassman on April 7, 2006, at 17:06:00
God's a friend of mine, hope i'm a friend to him.
Not sure about that devil, think s/he crossed my path afew times. Wasn't too impressed with the company.
~
Posted by TexasChic on April 8, 2006, at 8:59:42
In reply to Re: Do you believe in God-why or why not?, posted by special_k on April 7, 2006, at 22:19:04
> what kind of info could settle the issue?
If I knew that, I would probably know the answer. But basically anything that would prove it one way or another. As of now, there is no proof either way.
Maybe God appearing and saying "Hi, I'm God."
-T
Posted by gabbi~1 on April 8, 2006, at 14:52:59
In reply to Re: God and psychiatric illness..., posted by bassman on April 7, 2006, at 17:06:00
Here's the fun part: if I tell someone about the God I met, they'd probably decide I didn't believe in God because "He" was nothing like what they considered God.
that really made me chuckle.
people are so funny aren't they?
You mean you don't believe in a god who will condemn you to eternal torture though you led the best life you could
Why? Because you called "him" by the wrong name that's why!
What happens I wonder, if you can't hear properly and your pronounciation is a bit off?I guess maybe just half an eternity of torture.
Posted by pseudoname on April 8, 2006, at 15:23:29
In reply to early random thoughts, posted by Declan on April 7, 2006, at 15:36:16
I guess I didn't answer why I don't believe in God.
I had thorough Christian exposure growing up:
• Protestant church, Sunday school & choir every week
• reactionary Protestant day school to 8th grade
• Catholic high school
• taken to speaking-in-tongues services sometimes
• people in family who were Seventh-Day Adventists, Christian Scientists, etc
• lots of dinnertime talk about Calvinism, evolution, etcBy my mid-teens, I felt a lot of pressure from all these conflicting Christian dogmas. I felt that I saw too many internal contradictions and hand-waving, and it was getting to be too much for me, since I could find no logical reason to favor one Christian sect over another and each was presented to me with absolute certainty by its adherents.
Plus, prayer never did anything for my emotional problems.
The tipping point was at about 16 when I considered the unequivocally anti-gay passages in the Bible. I was gay and I *liked* that identity. (It was “different”, I guess.) I decided that a real God would have to know that being gay was okay. I remember exactly where I was sitting at the moment I thought, “If He doesn't want me, I don't want Him.”
My atheism has developed since then. :-) But I still like religious issues & discussions, and I still play hymns on my piano.
Posted by TylerJ on April 8, 2006, at 17:18:30
In reply to why not, posted by pseudoname on April 8, 2006, at 15:23:29
> I guess I didn't answer why I don't believe in God.
>
> I had thorough Christian exposure growing up:
> • Protestant church, Sunday school & choir every week
> • reactionary Protestant day school to 8th grade
> • Catholic high school
> • taken to speaking-in-tongues services sometimes
> • people in family who were Seventh-Day Adventists, Christian Scientists, etc
> • lots of dinnertime talk about Calvinism, evolution, etc
>
> By my mid-teens, I felt a lot of pressure from all these conflicting Christian dogmas. I felt that I saw too many internal contradictions and hand-waving, and it was getting to be too much for me, since I could find no logical reason to favor one Christian sect over another and each was presented to me with absolute certainty by its adherents.
>
> Plus, prayer never did anything for my emotional problems.
>
> The tipping point was at about 16 when I considered the unequivocally anti-gay passages in the Bible. I was gay and I *liked* that identity. (It was “different”, I guess.) I decided that a real God would have to know that being gay was okay. I remember exactly where I was sitting at the moment I thought, “If He doesn't want me, I don't want Him.”
>
> My atheism has developed since then. :-) But I still like religious issues & discussions, and I still play hymns on my piano.
I believe He does want you. I understand some of your confusion/frustration, etc. I was raised Catholic and felt forced to attend Church as an adolescent and teenager. As I got older I really started to question Catholism...praying to Mary, having to confess sins to a Priest, purgatory..just didn't buy it. Anyway, long story short I left the Catholic Church and because I still believed in God I started reading the Bible..which most Catholics didn't do. I accepted Christ at age 24 and I consider it to this day (I'm 47 now) the best thing I have ever done. I'm a basic Bible believing Christian. I'm definately not a Charasmatic holy roller-just not for me. As far as you being Gay, I hate it when "Christians" say he/she's gay so they must be lost. Christians aren't supposed to judge...I know God loves Gay people just as much as staight people. Gay people in my opinion tend to be some of the most intellegent, thoughtful, caring people on the planet. Thanks for your post pseudoname-take care.Tyler
Posted by Phillipa on April 8, 2006, at 17:41:55
In reply to Re: why not » pseudoname, posted by TylerJ on April 8, 2006, at 17:18:30
Does anyone remember the Wipple theory of how the Universe was created I learned in the eighth grade and at the time it made perfect sense. But for the life of me I don't remember it. Love Phillipa ps once I posted on Faith about how Jesus was in my bedroom two nights when there was a crisis with one of my kids and he spoke to me and said be strong. I was almost trembling when I wrote that post but it was snatched from me by a blocked poster and if you've been here for about six months to a year you all know who I'm taking about. I felt so brave to write that post but it was taken away from me when this person kept asking for clarifications. So of course the thread died. Love Phillipa
Posted by gabbi~1 on April 8, 2006, at 17:53:02
In reply to Re: why not » pseudoname, posted by TylerJ on April 8, 2006, at 17:18:30
Christians aren't supposed to judge...I know God loves Gay people just as much as staight people. Gay people in my opinion tend to be some of the most intellegent, thoughtful, caring people on the planet. Thanks for your post pseudoname-take care.
>
There are some Christian churches that are questioning the passages in the bible that seem to be anti-gay. I'm so very thankful for thatI'm not gay
But I have to hug you for what you've said. It's beyond my control.. : )
I was bracing myself as you approached the subject(((TYLER J)))
Thank you
for making your Christianity about love, and not about judgement.
It's like a fresh breeze just blew through my soul
Posted by deirdrehbrt on April 8, 2006, at 18:55:37
In reply to Do you believe in God-why or why not?, posted by TylerJ on April 7, 2006, at 19:00:57
Yes, but probably not in the sense that most people here do.
I believe that Deity revealed itself to many cultures in many ways. I think that some cultures have placed a box around their own definition and called it the only right way. I reject that.
I'm a Pagan, and to me, Deity can represent him / her / itself in many different ways, depending on the needs of the moment. If I need help with crafts or creativity, or working with metal, I call on Brigid. If I need help with water issues, I call on Coventina. Etc.
So I relate to deity in a manner that will fit my present situation. I suppose that it's not much different than Jews calling on Elohim, or El Shaddai, or whatever representation they could relate to at the time.
I specifically left the Christian faith because of their unbending stance on GLBT issues. I had been told by priests that I was going to hell, and I believe they are wrong.
I also had a strange experience in 1982, which led me to believe in Paganism / Wicca as a sensible alternative. That's where I am today.
Short answer, God, no.... Gods and Goddesses, yes.
--Dee
Posted by 10derHeart on April 8, 2006, at 20:43:35
In reply to Re: why not » TylerJ, posted by gabbi~1 on April 8, 2006, at 17:53:02
Not to for one second steal any of Tyler's thunder, but just to let you know gabbi, and anyone else reading, I totally, completely agree with what he posted. And I am *not* the only one, I absolutely assure you.
We aren't vocal enough perhaps. We aren't comfortable or articulate enough, perhaps, to make this known. But we are here, and I am coming from a middle-of-the-road to conservative, Protestant, Christian perspective. No friend of mine that I'm aware of, in my circle of church friends feels they are justified, or required to, pass judgement on another's behavior in that way.
IMO, it is distinctly unChristian (and lost) to *label* gay people as lost! (Did that make sense?) For me, the way I understand Jesus' words and the overriding message of the Bible in total, is that God loves each and every one of his children exactly the same, wants us all, cares for us all, weeps for us all, wants us *all* to prosper.
I thank everyone for these posts. It's important stuff, and not so easy to think about or talk about.
Posted by TexasChic on April 8, 2006, at 21:01:13
In reply to Re: Do you believe in God-why or why not?, posted by deirdrehbrt on April 8, 2006, at 18:55:37
One time when I told this guy I was agnostic he said, "You mean you don't believe in morals?!?" That really floored me. I was like, how do I even respond to such a statement?
I feel I have a very strict moral code and feel I'm quite spiritual. I try my best not to hurt or inflict anything negative on another person. I very rarely lie because I feel it will usually come back to me in some unpleasent way. But of course sometimes I do just like everyone else. I feel the same about taking something that's not mine. I also try to give people the benefit of the doubt and second chances, usually multiple second chances. Some people mistakingly believe that because I try to be forgiving and seek out the good in people that I won't stand up for myself. But just like everyone else I have my limits. I just try to handle things with as little negativity as possible, while trying to keep in mind that I deserve to be treated well too. Its not an easy balance.
-T
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