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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Susan47 on November 17, 2005, at 11:15:39
I'm visiting a country in which females are still seen as chattel and inferior, in spite of the fact that many more women are in positions of political power here than in many Western countries where women are seen as equals. A country in which, according to the newspaper I read here today, there are 15,000 (fifteen THOUSAND) dowry burnings a year. Think about that. Do you know what that is? A husband, very often helped by his mother and other relatives, sets his bride on fire, usually within the first two years of marriage, because she's inadequate for his purposes and those of the family. Fire is easiest because kerosene is available in virtually every kitchen here in India. It's also cheaper than knives or guns. Usually it's because her dowry was insufficient.. it just boils down to greed. But reading about this "May You Be the Mother of A Hundred Sons" by Elisabeth Bumiller .. I wonder, how many psycopathic men and women a country can create out of what might have been normal, emapthic people ... what is it that creates a climate wherein so many people cacn be so cruel?
The tradition of dowry is still a fairly recent one and mostly middle to upper-class, or at least, originated in those classes. Because in the poorer villages, in the lower castes, the husband's family traditionally paid for the bride, as compensation for the family losing a daughter and payment for her work in the fields. The idea of dowry actually has value as a social status symbol; when bride's family pays the groom's family a dowry, it means the groom is well-off enough that the bride will supposedly not have to work; the dowry paid is compensation to the groom's family for the burden, the BURDEN of supporting the bride. Well, what's wrong with THAT picture?
My ex-husband and I had a discussion today about how we view this country. I could never ever live here without, like many Indian women, wanting to or actually committing suicide.
My ex- thinks this would be a great place to live.
There you have it. People who profess themselves to be kind, gentle, and considerate, are capable of taking advantage of any situation in order to better themselves.
Susan thinks this is a sick world. This country also is full of terrorists, terrorist attacks happen every day, but you don't hear about them unless you read the local papers, or you live here, or you're actually interested. And why would anybody WANT to knhow about this stuff? It's absolutely depressing.
I thought my eyes were open before.
I wish I could close them again. And I have a feeling that once I get back to my own country, they will surely, slowly shut once more, in self-defense if nothing else. Because the value of a woman's life is no more than the opportunities she's given.
This is a country where first-born girls of a certain religion are .. I can't even go onh, it's just too depressing. But imagine, just imagine, being born into an irreversibly sad life. One in which you have absolutely no control whatsoever over your fate. I nevfer used to think about this stuff, not seriously, not without a certain detachment. But when you're here, when the air you breathe contains the dust of women burned alive on their husband's funeral pyres (okay so it's just happened once or twice, recently ...) where woman are BORN to be prostitutes ... you have to be a psycopath to be able to ignore the sadness of that.
Yesterday I met a psycho policeman. I was forced to pay a bribe. The police station here has a big sign, it says they don't tolerate corruption ... every mouth has two sides.
Quite frankly, I'm going to feel fortunate if I do get out of this country alive. Because lately it doesn't feel like I'm going to.
Posted by happyflower on November 17, 2005, at 12:47:10
In reply to a woman's value and other stuff, a rant, posted by Susan47 on November 17, 2005, at 11:15:39
I know I would get my mouth in trouble where you are, but I would have a hard time keeping quiet where all that abuse and rotton stuff goes on. I think I am right, most people are *ssholes or can be. THis will be my next topic in therapy because I bet even my T can be an *sshole, heck I think I am too sometimes.
Posted by Phillipa on November 17, 2005, at 23:07:57
In reply to Please stay safe (((((Susan)))), posted by happyflower on November 17, 2005, at 12:47:10
Susan 4 that is horrible! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Jen Star on November 18, 2005, at 0:03:18
In reply to a woman's value and other stuff, a rant, posted by Susan47 on November 17, 2005, at 11:15:39
Susan,
it IS sad and depressing. I think you're right -- sometimes we close down in self defense, because we feel so powerless to make changes, and in the face of such awfulness, it's easier to close our eyes. It's sad. i do it too, all the time.I hope you're safe. I hope you're able to have some fun while you're there. What are the beautiful things you're seeing?
I forgot if you're there for business, vacation, or both. Are things going well?
Please take care of yourself and be safe!
JenStar
Posted by Toph on November 18, 2005, at 1:32:13
In reply to a woman's value and other stuff, a rant, posted by Susan47 on November 17, 2005, at 11:15:39
It's not exactly reassuring to think about a society in which over half of its population is devalued and which also possesses nuclear weapons.
Be careful Susan.
Posted by Susan47 on November 18, 2005, at 10:50:26
In reply to Re: a woman's value and other stuff, a rant » Susan47, posted by Jen Star on November 18, 2005, at 0:03:18
Thanks for your messages and replies. Fact is I'm just keeping my head above major depression, and it's not biological it's environmental.. if that makes any sense ... but today I watched fifteen people pave the driveway at the apartments here, and three of them at least, were women in saris (sarees). They do it mostly by hand, almost everything is done by hand here in India, it seems. I took a movie with my camera, it has to be seen to be believed, from our perspective. There are several different teams. One person stands on the gravel pile and fills the buckets, which are shallow bowls, which are then carried on heads over to another person, who takes the bowl from the head of the walker, places it on his own head, and artfully and precisely, with a swirl, throws the gravel onto the work surface. Another person, wearing boots and carrying a bucket of hot tar, dribbles the tar over the initial road surface (which has also been painstakingly prepared and levelled by hand labour over the last week) and stays slightly ahead of the person throwing the small gravel ... and there are three men labouring over a fire preparing the hot tar. One man drives a roller of some sort; this is the only machinery used in the process. It's the last step. These people laboured for ten hours in the heat and the sun, working until well after sundown with only two short breaks that I witnessed. At one point I brought down fresh apples and some fudge-like sweets for them, which was handed around with big smiles. Oh yes, and most of the day two men on motorbikes stood watching, supervising ... I'm sure these labourers are illiterate and were working for probably a dollar or maybe even less, for the entire day ... and there's nothing anyone like me can do to make their lives any different. The foreman wasn't all too thrilled but I tried to placate him by telling him how obviously hard these people were working ... he seemed okay with it.. you have to understand these people are stick-thin, I mean, working in horribly dirty, hot conditions.. at lunchtime (I never actually saw any food being consumed nor anyone actually taking care of any need other than washing off dust and gulping a few handfuls of tap water at their break times) ... and the tenants of the apartment come home at the end of their workday and casually walk past these labourers as though they don't even exist ... not even looking at them .. and the sad thing is, I can sort of understand it all, because if you look anyone in the eye they become human to you, and you can't take that responsibility ... what a horrible world it is for so many people. I don't think the words "Why me" will ever cross my lips again ... I have no right to say those words.. a few days ago I saw women sleeping on the sidewalk in mid-day.. walking past a building I looked through a barred window and saw a small child on a cot being cared for by his grandmother .. in a dingy dark little room with nothing but rags for bedding ... what can I do? What can anybody do? You can't give money or goods directly to these people or you are mobbed, it's not safe to even do that .. you have to be surreptitious .. I have all this wonderful soap .. I left a bar out by the outside tap hoping if the labourers show up again tomorrow that they'll discover it, maybe they'll use it and feel a bit better ... there are no wild animals left in this part of India either, they've all been hunted into extinction ... you have to see this to believe it. It's a raped world ... and everyone suffers, even those who don't believe they do, the ones with deliberately closed eyes.
Today I spent some time at the local police station ... there are no filing cabinets, just rags wrapped around bundles of papers and thrown into piles on the floor, stuck behind old tarps which are filthy and weathered .. everything is covered with layers of red dust, the people constantly hack it out, but there are many good people here too. The good people to be around are those who're happy in spite of their poor living conditions. I'm glad I get to leave, if and when that actually happens (I know, fatalism has the better of me right now ...) ... I wouldn't want to be privileged in a country where so many work so hard for so little. It would change me into someone I wouldn't want to become. I'm already bad enough; already, I take too much for granted.
Posted by Susan47 on November 18, 2005, at 10:51:51
In reply to Re: a woman's value and other stuff, a rant » Susan47, posted by Toph on November 18, 2005, at 1:32:13
Yes, and the devalued half is the half that does most of the labour. What a world.
This is the end of the thread.
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