![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by allisonross on November 12, 2005, at 2:31:40
In reply to Re: What do you do when Christ breaks your heart? » allisonross, posted by Dena on November 11, 2005, at 11:18:29
> Dearest Dena (love your name)Ally,
>
> You wrote:
>
> "I was voted out of a 31-year church membership (my name put up on a big screen, followed by the words: CONDUCT UNBECOMING A CHILD OF GOD...beause I got a divorce after 31 years of abuse.
>
> If you read my thread: I Bet You Never Heard a Story Like this, you can read what happened."
>
> Absolutely heartbreaking! Few things hurt worse than to be "crucified" by fellow believers...
>
> Something eerily similar happened to me (what? is there a script these folks follow or something?).probably!
I, too, suffered at the hands of those I was in fellowship with. And the journey of healing has been almost as painful as the original offense...!
It's been 3 years, and I still have nightmares. But, fortunately i am SO resilient; seems nuthing gets me down (much, LOL); childhood of abuse, 31 years of abusive marriage, followed by spiritual abuse!
>
> I was recently led to a book that I, in turn, recommend to you: Gene Edwards wrote it (fabulous, gifted author, who writes in almost parable form): "Exquisite Agony": When Christians Hurt Other Christians.Guess what! I read it! I copied tons of what he said; I have a 4 drawer filing cabinet FULL of books and information from the internet on spiritual abuse. There is another great website: www.wings2Fly.com.......it's about women who have been hurt in a church.
The moderator wrote to me, and said she was SO prooud of me for standing up and not letting the church re-abuse me, and then she surprised me, and said "what you did was so kick-a**!! Well, then I love it, cause I love authentic people!
>
> It's NOT anything you'd expect... but it's about seeing the trauma through God's perspective -- necessary, I've come to believe, for true healing.Couple other excellent books:
When Bad Christians Happen to Good people by dave Burchett (he may use some of my poems in his next book); I can guarantee---
you will be laughing out loud on nearly every page. He signed my guestbook , also.
The other one: Messy Spirituality by Michael Yaconelli (I spoke to him on the phone, and what an authentic (one of my favorite words) man he was (he was killed last year)..
.when i told him what the deacons asked me (are you still having sex with your ex)....he said i should have asked them: "are you still master******?!
Again, I was shocked, having just met him, but then I cracked up; my therapist roared; he said that was a "classic."
>
> May you be blessed...Thankyou, sweetie! It is angels like you, who bless me
P.S. Did you read my website (www.churchabusepoetrytherapy.com)?
What makes the church debacle so ironic, is how I grew up, and that ucky marriage thing: LOL!
I was also published in an on-line journal: www.psychiatricjournal.com, entitled; The Transcendent Child on Overcoming Verbal and Spiritual Abuse>
> Shalom, Dena
Blessings to you, also, Dena!
Hugs n grins, Ally
Posted by Dena on November 12, 2005, at 2:31:40
In reply to Re: What do you do when Christ breaks your heart? » Dena, posted by allisonross on November 11, 2005, at 12:40:23
Omigosh! I ADORE Michael Yaconelli!!! Most folks haven't heard of him! "Messy Spirituality" was one of the most influential books of my life.
Also, "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" (forgot the authors)... & Dave Burchett's book.. and others, including Yancey, and John Fischer ("Twelve Steps for Recovering Pharisees (Like Me)" was a mind-blower...).
I read through part of your story... unfortunately, I have to put that off 'til another hour -- husband is due home, and I want to be ready for him (as well as get the house clean to surprise him... it's NEVER clean with 7 children living in it 24/7!).
A ministry I recommend, for healing, is Theophostic Prayer Ministry: www.theophostic.com
And a website for discovering God's (rather lavish) plan for sex is: www.themarriagebed.com (lots of folks there love Yaconelli, too).
Amazing that you knew Mike... I miss him! But he touched my life, deeply, before he left.
I've all but given up on the institutional church... not in reaction to what was done "to me" (as it was God who construed that "crucifixion" for my good), but becaue of what I'm being called into: home church.
Thanks for sharing!
Shalom, Dena
Posted by allisonross on November 12, 2005, at 2:31:40
In reply to Re: What do you do when Christ breaks your heart? » allisonross, posted by Dena on November 11, 2005, at 12:51:08
>Dear Dena: Cool!
Omigosh! I ADORE Michael Yaconelli!!! Did you know he was killed in a car crash a few years ago? Very shortly after I talked to him. My therapist loves him! He is also a pastor.
Most folks haven't heard of him! "Messy Spirituality" was one of the most influential books of my life.
Did you know he had/has a website? It is an unbelievable cynical look at organized religion? Think it's called the Open Door; will have to look it up!
>
> Also, "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" (forgot the authors)... & Dave Burchett's book.. and others, including Yancey, and John Fischer ("Twelve Steps for Recovering Pharisees (Like Me)" was a mind-blower...).Churches That Abuse by Dr. Ron Enroth: I wrote him a letter, and asked permission to use it in my memoir (Ghost Child To TRiumph/from a child wth no voice, to someone who speaks up against injustice) and have a publisher interested.
>
> I read through part of your story... unfortunately, I have to put that off 'til another hour -- husband is due home, and I want to be ready for him (as well as get the house clean to surprise him... it's NEVER clean with 7 children living in it 24/7!).Wow! Seven children?
>
> A ministry I recommend, for healing, is Theophostic Prayer Ministry: www.theophostic.comI will check it out. If you could see the many people I wrote to, it would blow your mind; on my website (www.churchabusepoetrytherapy.com); the messages to me were exquisite (my favorite word); I am including them in my book. My therapist said it sounded as if "God was dictating the words to me."
>
> And a website for discovering God's (rather lavish) plan for sex is: www.themarriagebed.com (lots of folks there love Yaconelli, too).Well, I won't be checking that out, since I am divorced and that is a sore spot with me. The ONLY good thing in our marriage was sex. I am having a terrible struggle with not having that anymore (5 months now; feels like five years); and sleeping alone; arrrrrghhhh.
I am a touchy, feeling, huggy, kissy, sensual, sexual woman (according to my therapist, LOL), and it's indescribable how it feels to be alone.
>
> Amazing that you knew Mike... I miss him! But he touched my life, deeply, before he left.
>
> I've all but given up on the institutional church... not in reaction to what was done "to me" (as it was God who construed that "crucifixion" for my good), but becaue of what I'm being called into: home church.I agree, I will probably never go to another church. I miss singing in the choir; it was one of my joys; a euphoric feeling. Well, dance is my first love.
>
> Thanks for sharing!Oh, Thank YOU, dear Dena; what a PLEASURE TO "KNOW" YOU, here, Hugs, Ally
>
> Shalom, DenaP.S. My prayer is that God changes my ex---not likely, I think, or at least brings a man into my life; I had abandoment issues, and cannot bear the thought of being alone for the rest of my life.
Thank you for being so kind...Love, Ally
Posted by lynn971 on November 12, 2005, at 8:12:56
In reply to Re: What do you do when Christ breaks your heart? » Dena, posted by allisonross on November 11, 2005, at 12:40:23
Dena, I am so sorry that you were hurt too.
Posted by 10derHeart on November 12, 2005, at 12:23:58
In reply to Re: What do you do when Christ breaks your heart? » Dena, posted by allisonross on November 11, 2005, at 18:10:34
"The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse"
"When Bad Christians Happen to Good People"
"12 Steps for the Recovering Pharisee (Like Me"
------------------------------------10derHeart, at your service! ;-)
great, fascinating, heartbreaking thread, BTW.
Posted by spriggy on November 12, 2005, at 19:43:18
In reply to More Amazon links (double double quotes), posted by 10derHeart on November 12, 2005, at 12:23:58
I'm on the other end of this spectrum.
My husband is a pastor- I could tell you stories of things' done to us, said about us, etc.. that would likely make you want to never want to enter a church building again.
At least that's how I felt for a while.I think I've just had to come to the conclusion that nearly everyone (no matter how much they love God) WILL not always act like they do (including me) and that people will always let me down; Christian or not.
This has been the hardest year of ministry in my life; the most painful wounds I've ever experienced came from other Christians-- even other "minister's" that we worked with. It's hard to come to grips with but I know that my wounds can't come close to the Lord's and the ones He endured for me.
And, this has made me realize why it is vital that I put all of my hope and trust to HIM... for " he will never leave me nor forsake me."
Posted by jay on November 12, 2005, at 20:48:39
In reply to Re: What do you do when Christ breaks your heart? » Dena, posted by allisonross on November 11, 2005, at 12:40:23
Posted by verne on November 12, 2005, at 20:59:11
In reply to Re: What do you do when Christ breaks your heart? » allisonross, posted by Dena on November 11, 2005, at 12:51:08
"Twelve Steps for Recovering Pharisees" is one of my favorites. I wish I could find a book entitled something like, "The Inside of the Cup" - I loaned it out and never got it back and the last time I checked it was out of print.
I've just about given up on church but I'm still holding out hope.
Verne
Posted by 10derHeart on November 12, 2005, at 23:29:23
In reply to Redirect to Faith board please... (nm), posted by jay on November 12, 2005, at 20:48:39
hmmm...Dr. Bob redirected this thread FROM the Faith board already
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20051105/msgs/577968.html
....at least for any discussions of suffering at the hands of other Christians/believers (sorry, paraphrasing a bit there), sooo.. ??
..kind of tough (impossible even?) to separate talking about past suffering in religious groups (which Dr. Bob apparently preferred be done here) from comments about one's religious faith and beliefs around that, for sure...
Guess we'll have to wait and see what he and/or the deputies think...
Posted by verne on November 13, 2005, at 12:21:02
In reply to Re: Redirect to Faith board please... » jay, posted by 10derHeart on November 12, 2005, at 23:29:23
Posted by 10derHeart on November 13, 2005, at 14:44:36
In reply to Thread Without a Home (nm), posted by verne on November 13, 2005, at 12:21:02
Posted by 10derHeart on November 13, 2005, at 14:49:05
In reply to Exactly. Poor thread. (nm) » verne, posted by 10derHeart on November 13, 2005, at 14:44:36
..in my post above to verne, I wasn't saying this is a *poor* thread, as in bad, deficient, etc. no!!
Just agreeing with him that it may be a bit homeless, with getting redirected and then someone wanting it redirected again...as in, I feel sorry for the thread....
whew....that subject line just looks a little misleading..
I need to go eat some brain food so I can possibly think straighter today :-)
Posted by sleepygirl on November 13, 2005, at 19:44:13
In reply to Re: What do you do when Christ breaks your heart? » Dena, posted by allisonross on November 11, 2005, at 12:40:23
Posted by 10derHeart on November 13, 2005, at 19:58:21
In reply to still faith subject, needs faith board (nm), posted by sleepygirl on November 13, 2005, at 19:44:13
yeah, in *my* world (hah!) I woulda left it over there, too...not sure why Dr. Bob felt like moving it....
?????????????????? the mysteries of Babble ;-)
Posted by sleepygirl on November 13, 2005, at 20:02:07
In reply to Re: still faith subject, needs faith board » sleepygirl, posted by 10derHeart on November 13, 2005, at 19:58:21
Yes- I need a 'trigger' warning for stuff about faith!!
Posted by verne on November 13, 2005, at 20:33:03
In reply to Uh...just to clarify..., posted by 10derHeart on November 13, 2005, at 14:49:05
You're fine. I got it the first time. I was envisioning an orphaned, waif of a thread when you said "poor".
Verne
Posted by 10derHeart on November 13, 2005, at 21:08:47
In reply to Re: still faith subject, needs faith board » 10derHeart, posted by sleepygirl on November 13, 2005, at 20:02:07
Posted by 10derHeart on November 13, 2005, at 21:12:44
In reply to Re: Uh...just to clarify... » 10derHeart, posted by verne on November 13, 2005, at 20:33:03
Yeah, I figured you did/would. It's just the look of my subject line. Those (nm) posts sometimes jump out at others who haven't read the whole thread for context, I think.
And I'm sure I'm extra-cautious today. Just having one of those yucky days where I don't seem to make much sense to myself...
Posted by gardenergirl on November 13, 2005, at 22:22:25
In reply to Re: Uh...just to clarify... » verne, posted by 10derHeart on November 13, 2005, at 21:12:44
I'm not sure I get why it was moved, either.
gg
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 15, 2005, at 0:09:25
In reply to Re: Redirect to Faith board please... » jay, posted by 10derHeart on November 12, 2005, at 23:29:23
> kind of tough (impossible even?) to separate talking about past suffering in religious groups (which Dr. Bob apparently preferred be done here) from comments about one's religious faith and beliefs around that, for sure...
The idea there is to support religious faith, and I think it's easy for talking about suffering not to do that. People who don't want to read about faith can just skip over these threads?
Bob
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 15, 2005, at 10:23:37
In reply to Re: Redirect to Social board, posted by Dr. Bob on November 15, 2005, at 0:09:25
> > kind of tough (impossible even?) to separate talking about past suffering in religious groups (which Dr. Bob apparently preferred be done here) from comments about one's religious faith and beliefs around that, for sure...
>
> The idea there is to support religious faith, and I think it's easy for talking about suffering not to do that. People who don't want to read about faith can just skip over these threads?
>
> BobThe threads you've moved feel very out of place, here on social. I cannot think of a better way to support religious faith than to confront and deal with suffering which has occurred in the name of faith.
These are issues confronted by faith communities, Bob. Rephrase what you have just said, and you get "People on the faith board who don't want to read about suffering can just skip over those threads."
Lar
Posted by allisonross on November 16, 2005, at 13:35:49
In reply to Oh how I can relate..., posted by spriggy on November 12, 2005, at 19:43:18
> Hi, sweetie: Can you e-mail me? wacalice@aol.com
I'd like to give you my website, but afraid Dr. Bob will send a message saying 'redirect" or something. I am new, and still trying to figure out how all of this stuff works!
Hugs, love and blessings, Ally
I'm on the other end of this spectrum.
>
> My husband is a pastor- I could tell you stories of things' done to us, said about us, etc.. that would likely make you want to never want to enter a church building again.
>
>
> At least that's how I felt for a while.
>
> I think I've just had to come to the conclusion that nearly everyone (no matter how much they love God) WILL not always act like they do (including me) and that people will always let me down; Christian or not.
>
> This has been the hardest year of ministry in my life; the most painful wounds I've ever experienced came from other Christians-- even other "minister's" that we worked with. It's hard to come to grips with but I know that my wounds can't come close to the Lord's and the ones He endured for me.
>
> And, this has made me realize why it is vital that I put all of my hope and trust to HIM... for " he will never leave me nor forsake me."
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.