![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by allisonross on November 8, 2005, at 23:50:34
In reply to Re: SPIRITUAL ABUSEBet U Never Heard a Story LikeThis, posted by lynn971 on November 7, 2005, at 19:41:05
> Hi, Lynn!
The pastor in my community has recently made me mad because it appears that he thinks his kids do no wrong. YOu can read the story on my social post. It is under "The Nerve."
I will read it.
>
> There have been other times when he disciplined some children at the school in which he runs. He did not discipline his own son for the same or worse behavior. I know that I will not attend his church.Good for you!
>
> Thats why I am at a point in my life where I only care about what God thinks, not what people at a church thinks.Me too! There's a fabulous website: www.wings2Fly, and it is letters from women who have been abused in a church. I LOVE what the moderator has to say. SHe says "when everything has been shaken loose, and all you are left with is God, then that is great. That is all you need. A relationship between you and God, is all you need." I love that.
>
> I am so glad that you are out of that horrible situation. I am mad at the church that did that to you.Thankyou, sweetie.
How dare them.
They "dared" because they were convinced they were doing the "Biblical" thing. You know, the verse which says if someone is sinning, go to them, then take 2 people, and if they still won't listen, take it to the church.."
It will come back to haunt them though because "you reap what you sow"
Yup. There's a newspaper who wants the story, but I haven't done anything about it yet.
When my book is published, that will be the "reap what you sow" LOL, LOL
Hugs and Love and Blessings, Ally
Posted by allisonross on November 9, 2005, at 20:41:22
In reply to Redirect: SPIRITUAL ABUSE, posted by Dr. Bob on November 8, 2005, at 23:51:49
> > Hi, Dr. Bob: There's a fabulous website: www.wings2Fly, and it is letters from women who have been abused in a church.
Yes, I found that last year, and the moderator (she is fabulous) wrote to me and said she was so proud of me that I stood up to the abuse and it was so "kick-a**!" I was kinda shocked, but then I loved it. I love authenticity!
>
> Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding abuse in a church to Psycho-Babble Social. Here's a link:Does this mean that anyone wanting to respond should go to the Babble Social link?
Thanks so much! Did you get a chance to read my story which was published in a psychiatric on-line journal?
I was quite amazed!
www.psychiatricjournal.com, entitled: The Transcendent Child (I am that child) on Overcoming Verbal and Spiritual Abuse.
I would love to hear your thoughts!
Thankyou, again, Dr. Bob! Sincerely, Alice (overcomer and wounded-healer)
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20051029/msgs/577004.html
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
Posted by Dena on November 12, 2005, at 12:11:47
In reply to Re: SPIRITUAL ABUSEBet U Never Heard a Story LikeThis » lynn971, posted by allisonross on November 7, 2005, at 5:36:46
"Thank you. I's been 3 years, but it's a wound that can never fully heal."
Allison -- I know how intense the pain can be -- especially when it comes at the hands of fellow believers, extra-especially when it comes by the hands of someone in leadership.
I know - it happened to me, too. Different details, but same scenario. It's horrible. Unfathomably cruel. Unjust. Devastating. Like a rape of the soul.
However, know this: Yes, you CAN be completely healed...
The answer, in part, lies within that book you and I both read: "Exquisite Agony". I know you read it, but perhaps you forgot some of it. Perhaps you don't agree with it... but it spoke volumes to me, and so, for myself, for others, and perhaps for you, I'll share some of it here:
"The discovery that Christians can be cruel to Christians has destroyed the spiritual part of many a believer's life. Few things, even the loss of a loved one, affect one's life so profoundly or so painfully. The damage is quite often unfathomable. I would dare say that a truly vicious attack on the part of one believer to another leaves most Christians so hurt they never fully recover.
"Yet, full recovery is possible.
"Let us trust that you will be one of those who does recover. And fully so. Even more than recover.
"'Have there been many others who have been mistreated so severely?'
"A good question. Yes, mistreated, abused - so severely that it amounts to a crucifixion. Sometimes even a public crucifixion.
"There were John Huss, Latimer, Tyndale, Wycliff, the maiden Joan, John of Prague... ah, the list seems to be quite large.
"But the list is largest in your day; it seems there are many such goings on in your time. Nevertheless, the pattern has been pretty consistent, dating all the way back to, well, the cousin of Jesus.
"I have observed that in all these crucifixions, each person feels that few others have been so unjustly treated."
"Your first step to recovery? Is it to deal with that person who is most responsible for your being crucified? Do you know this person's name (or was it a group of people)? Lay aside his name. The villain lies elsewhere.
"Drop the obvious. Place your crucifixion in the realm of the invisibles, in realms unseen. Only there will you truly find the person who deliberately caused you to be crucified. Be assured, this one is not of this earth. Only in the realm of the spirituals will you find the perpetrator. The person who authored the destruction which fell upon you, and those inescapable memories of the ghastly deed which now haunt you, it all began in that other realm. It is outside the names of earthly men that you discover your crucifier.
"Find him. It is also there that you will move toward being healed of those unhealing wounds.
"One thing is sure, the mastermind behind your crucifixion is not one who quickly comes to mind.
"Who crucified you? The same one who crucified your Lord. Inquire of Him as to who authored His crucifixion.
"Do you hear His response?
"'Who crucified Me? Who planned my crucifixion? My Father. It was my Father.'
"Hard words to hear, yes. Nor is it easy to reconcile such incongruity.
"Come to grips with this,that your Father - and your Lord's Father - willed that you be crucified. Accepting this terrible but immovable fact is your first step to healing. Take that step and recovery begins. Failing that, nothing else will ever work to your complete restoration. Healing is embedded in the act of your turning to your Lord and accepting this terrible tragedy as having come from His hand. Bitter, yes. Incomprehensible, yes. Embrace it you must. For essential it is.
"If you refuse?
"Hear my words. Refusal to accept your crucifixion as wholly from the hand of God only means you were not crucified, you were just mistreated. And what a waste.
"Be aware that many Christians choose not to be fully restored. Some believers actually prefer being wounded ... permanently. You have but two choices, recovery and healing, or your present state.
"Be warned, if you are healed, that means you cannot resent anymore. Some believers cannot handle such a thought; they need to go on resenting, arguing and remembering. Shall this be your lot?
"It would not be untypical for you to choose to hate rather than to be healed.
"Wherein lies your disappointment? Where is centered your greatest pain? How tightly do you hold onto that injustice?
"A position denied? A title? Something taken from you that you desired? Something you deserved denied you? Something you did not deserve done to you? Position? Eldership? Accpetance? Approval? Your way?! Honor never bestowed Or being lied about?
"If you accept that nightmarish ordeal as a sovereign work of God, if you acquiesce to His will, then does He begin to have HIS will. Suddenly it becomes not only a crucifixion but a holy work of God. Things needing destruction begin to be destroyed. Things He desires live on... live on in victory.
"Persist in looking upon that event as the unjustifiable conduct of wicked men and nothing is gained. Its only outcome is a shriveled soul. Your future then becomes no more than that which awaits any embittered creature.
"But take heart. Even now it is not too late to allow that even to be taken as wholly from the hand of God. Receive it as being from Him for your good. For your transformation. For the destruction of the dark side of your person. For resurrection."
Gene Edwards (the author) goes on to contrast the person who continues to rehearse the offense, with the person who embraces it as from the hand of God:
"After that day (of the offense), when you met him, his main topic of conversation would be recounting how he had been mistreated by others."
"Everything negative which happened to him was both unfair and never his fault."
"He recounted his story of injustice to anyone who would listen. His defense was logical - so much so that it was not only plausible but irrestible."
"You have been angry. You have blamed. You have been the victim. You have often recalled the event of your victimization. Bitterness is at the door. Continue on this path and you lose all that God is seeking to accomplish in you.
"Look up. What happened to you was an act of sovereign mercy.
"Once you know that your crucifixion was from the hand of God, and only from Him, it changes your life forever. You end negotiations, protestations, justifications, and even stop referring to having been crucified. Forever.
"Never allow a crucifixion to be from men. Allow it only to be from God."
The book goes on, but I shan't...
It absolutely pierced me to read this book. I've been working through forgiveness for my own crucifixion, but I've been telling anyone who would listen, rehearsing the pain, living in the "victim swamp", keeping it fresh... making it almost my IDENTITY.
Not turning to God, facing that He, and He alone is behind it -- that He had specific purposes for that suffering - purposes that were for my GOOD. And in hanging on to the pain, the blame, the "how dare they's", I've not allowed God to work this toward my good -- which is a huge WASTE, not to mention an offense to Him.
I'm tired of being the victim, the "wounded one", the one who was so unjustly treated.
I want this to count, and not to turn me into a bitter, "look how bad I was treated" woman...
God help me see this from your perspective, and no longer my own...!
Shalom, Dena
Posted by allisonross on November 12, 2005, at 12:11:49
In reply to Re: SPIRITUAL ABUSEBet U Never Heard a Story LikeThis » allisonross, posted by Dena on November 11, 2005, at 22:23:50
> Hi, Dena: "Thank you. I's been 3 years, but it's a wound that can never fully heal."
>
> Allison -- I know how intense the pain can be -- especially when it comes at the hands of fellow believers, extra-especially when it comes by the hands of someone in leadership.
>
> I know - it happened to me, too. Different details, but same scenario. It's horrible. Unfathomably cruel. Unjust. Devastating. Like a rape of the soul.
>
> However, know this: Yes, you CAN be completely healed...
>
> The answer, in part, lies within that book you and I both read: "Exquisite Agony". I know you read it, but perhaps you forgot some of it. Perhaps you don't agree with it... but it spoke volumes to me, and so, for myself, for others, and perhaps for you, I'll share some of it here:
>
>
>
> "The discovery that Christians can be cruel to Christians has destroyed the spiritual part of many a believer's life. Few things, even the loss of a loved one, affect one's life so profoundly or so painfully. The damage is quite often unfathomable. I would dare say that a truly vicious attack on the part of one believer to another leaves most Christians so hurt they never fully recover.
>
> "Yet, full recovery is possible.Well, I am not sure how I feel about this. I am not bitter; just sad about what happened. I don't know what "full" recovery means.
The wound will always be there. I've overcome a childhood of abuse; physical, verbal and being molested, ten 31 years of abusive marriage, followed by spiritual abuse; I am very resilient. Good thing.
I read the book, but we all process things in our own way.
>
> "Let us trust that you will be one of those who does recover. And fully so. Even more than recover.
>
> "'Have there been many others who have been mistreated so severely?'
>
> "A good question. Yes, mistreated, abused - so severely that it amounts to a crucifixion. Sometimes even a public crucifixion.
>
> "There were John Huss, Latimer, Tyndale, Wycliff, the maiden Joan, John of Prague... ah, the list seems to be quite large.
>
> "But the list is largest in your day; it seems there are many such goings on in your time. Nevertheless, the pattern has been pretty consistent, dating all the way back to, well, the cousin of Jesus.
>
> "I have observed that in all these crucifixions, each person feels that few others have been so unjustly treated."
>
> "Your first step to recovery? Is it to deal with that person who is most responsible for your being crucified? Do you know this person's name (or was it a group of people)? Lay aside his name. The villain lies elsewhere.Not sure I believe this.
>
> "Drop the obvious. Place your crucifixion in the realm of the invisibles, in realms unseen. Only there will you truly find the person who deliberately caused you to be crucified. Be assured, this one is not of this earth. Only in the realm of the spirituals will you find the perpetrator. The person who authored the destruction which fell upon you, and those inescapable memories of the ghastly deed which now haunt you, it all began in that other realm. It is outside the names of earthly men that you discover your crucifier.
>
> "Find him. It is also there that you will move toward being healed of those unhealing wounds.
>
> "One thing is sure, the mastermind behind your crucifixion is not one who quickly comes to mind.
>
> "Who crucified you? The same one who crucified your Lord. Inquire of Him as to who authored His crucifixion.
>
> "Do you hear His response?
>
> "'Who crucified Me? Who planned my crucifixion? My Father. It was my Father.'
>
> "Hard words to hear, yes. Nor is it easy to reconcile such incongruity.
>
> "Come to grips with this,that your Father - and your Lord's Father - willed that you be crucified. Accepting this terrible but immovable fact is your first step to healing. Take that step and recovery begins. Failing that, nothing else will ever work to your complete restoration. Healing is embedded in the act of your turning to your Lord and accepting this terrible tragedy as having come from His hand. Bitter, yes. Incomprehensible, yes. Embrace it you must. For essential it is.
>
> "If you refuse?
>
> "Hear my words. Refusal to accept your crucifixion as wholly from the hand of God only means you were not crucified, you were just mistreated. And what a waste.This is just his opinion. No one can really know.
>
> "Be aware that many Christians choose not to be fully restored. Some believers actually prefer being wounded ... permanently. You have but two choices, recovery and healing, or your present state.Not me, I don't prefer being wounded. I spent a lifetime with that.
>
> "Be warned, if you are healed, that means you cannot resent anymore.I don't resent, nor am I bitter (I said this in the letter to those people, that I forgave them)....but I think forgiveness is a process.
Some believers cannot handle such a thought; they need to go on resenting, arguing and remembering.
This isn't me.
Shall this be your lot?
>
> "It would not be untypical for you to choose to hate rather than to be healed.I don't hate, not even when they were doing the abuse stuff to me; I was confused and sad.
>
> "Wherein lies your disappointment? Where is centered your greatest pain? How tightly do you hold onto that injustice?
>
> "A position denied? A title? Something taken from you that you desired? Something you deserved denied you? Something you did not deserve done to you? Position? Eldership? Accpetance? Approval? Your way?! Honor never bestowed Or being lied about?
>
> "If you accept that nightmarish ordeal as a sovereign work of God, if you acquiesce to His will, then does He begin to have HIS will.If I KNEW that was his will, but no one can know that.
Suddenly it becomes not only a crucifixion but a holy work of God. Things needing destruction begin to be destroyed. Like what? Surely, not a person.
Things He desires live on... live on in victory. My whole life has been victorious; overcoming a lifetime of abuse, and still my spirit shows in my face.
>
> "Persist in looking upon that event as the unjustifiable conduct of wicked men and nothing is gained. Its only outcome is a shriveled soul. Your future then becomes no more than that which awaits any embittered creature.
>
> "But take heart. Even now it is not too late to allow that even to be taken as wholly from the hand of God. Receive it as being from Him for your good. For your transformation. For the destruction of the dark side of your person. For resurrection."
>
> Gene Edwards (the author) goes on to contrast the person who continues to rehearse the offense, with the person who embraces it as from the hand of God:
>
> "After that day (of the offense), when you met him, his main topic of conversation would be recounting how he had been mistreated by others."
>
> "Everything negative which happened to him was both unfair and never his fault."
>
> "He recounted his story of injustice to anyone who would listen. His defense was logical - so much so that it was not only plausible but irrestible."
>
> "You have been angry. You have blamed. You have been the victim. You have often recalled the event of your victimization. Bitterness is at the door. Continue on this path and you lose all that God is seeking to accomplish in you.What I told everybody was that I never for a moment lost my faith in God, because I knew it was PEOPLE doing this to me, and not God.
>
> "Look up. What happened to you was an act of sovereign mercy.
>
> "Once you know that your crucifixion was from the hand of God, and only from Him, it changes your life forever. You end negotiations, protestations, justifications, and even stop referring to having been crucified. Forever.
>
> "Never allow a crucifixion to be from men. Allow it only to be from God."
>
>
>
> The book goes on, but I shan't...
>
> It absolutely pierced me to read this book. I've been working through forgiveness for my own crucifixion, but I've been telling anyone who would listen, rehearsing the pain, living in the "victim swamp", keeping it fresh... making it almost my IDENTITY.
>
> Not turning to God, facing that He, and He alone is behind it -- that He had specific purposes for that suffering - purposes that were for my GOOD. And in hanging on to the pain, the blame, the "how dare they's", I've not allowed God to work this toward my good -- which is a huge WASTE, not to mention an offense to Him.
>
> I'm tired of being the victim, the "wounded one", the one who was so unjustly treated.
>
> I want this to count, and not to turn me into a bitter, "look how bad I was treated" woman...
>
> God help me see this from your perspective, and no longer my own...!I have always been able to make something beautiful come from the ashes of my life, and this time was no different.
My website: www.churchabusepoetrytherapy.com.....it has been a phenomenon and helped thousands to heal.
Perhaps that was the purpose in my "crucifixion"
>
> Shalom, Dena
>
> Love, Alice
>
>
Posted by Dena on November 12, 2005, at 21:21:20
In reply to Re: SPIRITUAL ABUSEBet U Never Heard a Story LikeThis » Dena, posted by allisonross on November 12, 2005, at 7:16:47
Hey Alice -
Thanks for responding back to my looooooooong post!
You wrote: "The wound will always be there. I've overcome a childhood of abuse; physical, verbal and being molested, ten 31 years of abusive marriage, followed by spiritual abuse; I am very resilient. Good thing."
I've experienced complete healing of a lot of early childhood abuse (much like you endured). I also then suffered spiritual abuse (9 years of it, culminating in the excommunicating Bishop's Council that I wrote to you about -- all based on lies, which I could never refute).
But it's not our resiliance which sustains us -- part of that is numbing out, part of that is learning to live with the abuse, part of that is maintaining a "victim" mentality... What sustains us is how we let God re-interpret the abuse -- seeing it through His eyes of truth is what makes the difference.
Often, God, in His mercy, allows us to go through similar types of pain... "triggering" the old, unhealed (early childhood) pain -- so that it can be healed -- not to "re-torture" us... it's the buried, unhealed pain that really damages us, driving us from within, consuming us with the lies we believe about ourselves (& God) due to the pain...
and YES, we can all be completely set free - healed - of that old pain (along with the current pain that stirred it up). It happened to me (after 21 years of trying everything else for healing/recovery)... it's happened for thousands of others. You can check it out: www.theophostic.com
It can lead to unimaginable freedom.
You wrote: "What I told everybody was that I never for a moment lost my faith in God, because I knew it was PEOPLE doing this to me, and not God."This book was designed to bring people to the exact opposite conclusion -- that God, an all-powerful, all-loving, sovereign God either causes or allows all that happens to us -- for our GOOD, provided we yield to Him, and seek His perspective. If we focus on the people who caused the pain, we miss the point -- and we end up focused on them (in a sense, "haunted" by their actions) for the rest of our lives. Only in seeing this (& all things) as being from the hands of God, can we release the good that He intends to come from all things.
You say you're not bitter, and since I don't know you, haven't met you, I have to take you at your word. However, the impression I get, from your posts, from your email, and from your website, is a woman who's consummed with focusing upon what was done to her... rehearsing the offense, over and over, defined by it, as though it was now her identity.
I know what that's like -- I've done the same thing (I didn't create a website, but I've sent out my story numerous times to others). I know what it's done to me. I know how it's limited me. And I'm now tasting the freedom on the other side, having embraced the trauma as from the hand of God, meant for my good. A dichotomy, to be sure, as are many things about God.
You wrote: "My website: www.churchabusepoetrytherapy.com.....it has been a phenomenon and helped thousands to heal."I'm sure that thousands have been drawn there, have resonated with your story, and have related -- as, sadly, tragically, people in the church hurt others in the church -- deeply. I know.
But how can you say they've been healed? Perhaps it's only fostered their desire to rehash the pain, to focus on the trauma, to rehearse offenses done against them, to feel more justified in lashing out and denouncing those who harmed them. That's not healing. And I dare say, many of them who continue to focus on their own current pain are avoiding the TRUE healing that can come when God uses the current pain to heal the ancient pain... to set people free from that which was long-buried, and yet continues to fester, spreading poison throughout their lives...
You can write this off as "just her opinion" if you want to.
But I have received healing for the past abused in my life, along with the resulting addictions of bulimia, drugs/alcohol, shoplifting, compulsive promiscuity ... as well as the dysfunctions of depression and sexual frigidity (yep, I flipped from one extreme to the other, after getting married - go figure!).
I know what it's like to be crippled by abuse, as well as how to walk FREE from it (without the need to focus on what "they" did).
I know you can experience that too - it's wonderful, really. I never knew it could be like this...
Shalom, Dena
Posted by allisonross on November 12, 2005, at 23:42:58
In reply to Re: SPIRITUAL ABUSEBet U Never Heard a Story LikeThis » allisonross, posted by Dena on November 12, 2005, at 21:21:20
> Hey Alice -
> Hey, Dena!> Thanks for responding back to my looooooooong post!
You are so welcome!
>
> You wrote: "The wound will always be there. I've overcome a childhood of abuse; physical, verbal and being molested, ten 31 years of abusive marriage, followed by spiritual abuse; I am very resilient. Good thing."What I meant by that is that I AM incredibly resilient; my therapist told me that he goes to a mental health facility, where people have experienced only half of what I did, and they are wrecks, but I am like a rubber ball, that bounces back continuously.
>
> I've experienced complete healing of a lot of early childhood abuse (much like you endured). I also then suffered spiritual abuse (9 years of it, culminating in the excommunicating Bishop's Council that I wrote to you about -- all based on lies, which I could never refute).
>
> But it's not our resiliance which sustains us -- part of that is numbing out,I don't feel I EVER numbed out. I have always been able to look at reality right in the face, and process it.
part of that is learning to live with the abuse, part of that is maintaining a "victim" mentality...
I told my therapist a long time ago that I have never called or even THOUGHT of myself as a victim.
What sustains us is how we let God re-interpret the abuse -- seeing it through His eyes of truth is what makes the difference.
>
> Often, God, in His mercy, allows us to go through similar types of pain... "triggering" the old, unhealed (early childhood) pain -- so that it can be healed -- not to "re-torture" us... it's the buried, unhealed pain that really damages us, driving us from within, consuming us with the lies we believe about ourselvesNot sure what you mean by "lies?" I don't think I ever believed any lies about myself.
Amazingly, I have excellent self-esteem, or as my therapist puts it, I am "intrapsychicly aware"--not sure I spelled intrapsycicly right, --meaning I am in touch with my feelings.
(& God) due to the pain...
This wasn't true for me. I dealt with my childhood stuff 20 years ago; even called my mother and told her I forgave her for doing nothing when I was molested. In other words, I did the work necessary. Hold no bitterness, or unresolved stuff from childhood.
>
> and YES, we can all be completely set free - healed - of that old pain (along with the current pain that stirred it up). It happened to me (after 21 years of trying everything else for healing/recovery)... it's happened for thousands of others. You can check it out: www.theophostic.com
>
> It can lead to unimaginable freedom.
>
>
> You wrote: "What I told everybody was that I never for a moment lost my faith in God, because I knew it was PEOPLE doing this to me, and not God."
>
> This book was designed to bring people to the exact opposite conclusion -- that God, an all-powerful, all-loving, sovereign God either causes or allows all that happens to us -- for our GOOD, provided we yield to Him, and seek His perspective. If we focus on the people who caused the pain, we miss the point -- and we end up focused on them (in a sense, "haunted" by their actions) for the rest of our lives. Only in seeing this (& all things) as being from the hands of God, can we release the good that He intends to come from all things.
>
> You say you're not bitter, and since I don't know you, haven't met you, I have to take you at your word. However, the impression I get, from your posts, from your email, and from your website, is a woman who's consummed with focusing upon what was done to her... rehearsing the offense, over and over, defined by it, as though it was now her identity.Not true at all. I posted my story, because it was on faith, and thought that would be the proper place to put it. It doesn't define me nor is my identity. I rarely talk about it; it's something that happened, and I processed it, along with my therapist...an angel sent directly to me from God, I am convinced.
>
> I know what that's like -- I've done the same thing (I didn't create a website, but I've sent out my story numerous times to others). I know what it's done to me. I know how it's limited me.The website was both healing and cathartic for me. As I said, my therapist said it sounded as if "God was dictating the words to me."
And I'm now tasting the freedom on the other side, having embraced the trauma as from the hand of God, meant for my good. A dichotomy, to be sure, as are many things about God.
>
>
> You wrote: "My website: www.churchabusepoetrytherapy.com.....it has been a phenomenon and helped thousands to heal."
>
> I'm sure that thousands have been drawn there, have resonated with your story, and have related -- as, sadly, tragically, people in the church hurt others in the church -- deeply. I know.
>
> But how can you say they've been healed?Because they told me how healing, and wonderful the poems were, and they resonated with them, and were grateful to find something that EXACTLY described their feelings.
Perhaps it's only fostered their desire to rehash the pain, to focus on the trauma, to rehearse offenses done against them, to feel more justified in lashing out and denouncing those who harmed them. That's not healing. And I dare say, many of them who continue to focus on their own current pain are avoiding the TRUE healing that can come when God uses the current pain to heal the ancient pain... to set people free from that which was long-buried, and yet continues to fester, spreading poison throughout their lives..
No, that is not what I meant. NONE of them denounced, lashed out or said anything bitter. The messages are transcendent in their scope and beauty....if you read them, you will see what I mean. People have resonated with what I experienced and found healing in my poetry. They aren't messages of anger, etc., just beautiful thoughts of gratitude, love and hope.
For instance, one person wrote: You have spoken for all of us abused in a church, and don't know how to articulate it. Bravo!
You are truly an angel of healing.
I believe GOd sent me directly to your website. I am sitting here, tears rolling down my face, feeling such peace and tranquility. You are an angel sent directly to me from GOd.
Just a few.>
> You can write this off as "just her opinion" if you want to.
>
> But I have received healing for the past abused in my life, along with the resulting addictions of bulimia, drugs/alcohol, shoplifting, compulsive promiscuity ... as well as the dysfunctions of depression and sexual frigidity (yep, I flipped from one extreme to the other, after getting married - go figure!).
>
> I know what it's like to be crippled by abuse, as well as how to walk FREE from it (without the need to focus on what "they" did).I've never felt "crippled" by any of the abuse. My therapist asked me how come I am so "normal" after all of it. I told him, it is my faith, wicked wit and sense of humor. Without them, I might be drooling in a corner somewhere. LOL!
In the book, The Transcendent Child (I use quotes from it, in my book,) because it is the premise for my whole life, the author says: "How is it that some children are crippled by the abuse (turn to drugs, alcohol, promiscuity,e tc. etc., while others fall 8 times, get up 9, etc.
>
> I know you can experience that too - it's wonderful, really. I never knew it could be like this...Well, as I have said throughout. I feel I am just fine from all of the past. I processed it a long time ago. Right now, I am mourning and grieving a 31 year marriage. That is my ONLY focus right now.
>
> Shalom, DenaSmiles, Alice (I'll check out the site and let you know what I think)
>
>
Posted by Dena on November 12, 2005, at 23:53:23
In reply to Re: SPIRITUAL ABUSEBet U Never Heard a Story LikeThis, posted by allisonross on November 12, 2005, at 23:42:58
Ok - I accept you at your word.
I don't know you outside of this board, and your website.
To me, it came across as you drawing attention to your abuse -- even the title of this very thread "Bet U Never Heard a Story Like This"... seems attention-seeking... which speaks of a need for further healing to me.
I've just finished reading "Exquisite Agony", and the descirption of the person who "can't get over it" because of focusing on the "wrong perpetrator" seemed to fit what I was reading in your posts, and on your website...
But, I've been wrong many times before, & could be reading too much into it, since the book is so fresh on my mind... So if you say you're fine in your healing journey, so be it.
I accept that.
Thanks for your gracious manner. I might not have handled a similar "confrontation" in such a kind way...
Shalom, Dena
Posted by allisonross on November 13, 2005, at 12:23:51
In reply to Re: SPIRITUAL ABUSEBet U Never Heard a Story LikeThis » allisonross, posted by Dena on November 12, 2005, at 23:53:23
> Hi, Dena!
Ok - I accept you at your word.
>
> I don't know you outside of this board, and your website.
>
> To me, it came across as you drawing attention to your abuse -- even the title of this very thread "Bet U Never Heard a Story Like This"... seems attention-seeking... which speaks of a need for further healing to me.Yes, it WAS attention getting. BUt for a purpose; I have been counseling abused women for 10 years now, and I thought that if anyone else had been abused spiritually, that I could help, and direct them to some good books and websites. I think I mentioned wings2Fly...have you ever gone there? It is wonderful
Actually, one of the poems I wrote was that I had gone through the fire (like the fiery furnace), and came out pretty much unsinged, because there wre angels with me (just like in the Bible story)
>
> I've just finished reading "Exquisite Agony", and the descirption of the person who "can't get over it" because of focusing on the "wrong perpetrator" seemed to fit what I was reading in your posts, and on your website...I've always intensely disliked that phrase: get over it; there are different nuances, etc. THere are some things we don't get over. We process them, heal as much as possible. It is part of us; we cannot forget it, but we can make peace with it.
The other question is; how do we know such ugliness is from God? We can CHOOSE to believe that, and in doing so, can help being healed. I chose to believe that, because the result was my over 200 poems, and website that resulted in helping ME heal, and others. This makes sense as the purpose in what happened.
>
> But, I've been wrong many times before, & could be reading too much into it, since the book is so fresh on my mind... So if you say you're fine in your healing journey, so be it.
>
> I accept that.
>
> Thanks for your gracious manner.You are very welcome!
I might not have handled a similar "confrontation" in such a kind way...
Well, (LOL) I am hypersensitive to criticism, but try to look at what is being said, and respond to MY stuff. Knowing the difference between MY stuff and someone else's is a big key.
Not having any boundaries growing up, I had to learn them. Ever hear of a book called: Boundaries? It's my Townsend and Cloud (ironic, since townsend is my former pastor's name, LOL)
I went to one of their seminars; fabulous!
Love n hugs, Ally
>
> Shalom, Dena
Posted by allisonross on November 19, 2005, at 19:36:29
In reply to Prayers needed, posted by dominique on November 18, 2005, at 16:45:10
Dear Dominique: LOVE your name, you and your husband will be in my prayers...Love, smiles and hugs, Ally
(If you like faith-based poetry: www.churchabusepoetrytherapy.com)...long story; voted out of a 31-year church membership, 'cause I got a divorce after (31 years of) abuse.
Posted by lynn971 on November 19, 2005, at 19:36:30
In reply to Re: Prayers needed » dominique, posted by allisonross on November 18, 2005, at 18:46:28
Dominique, I have and will continue to pray for you and your husband.
]Allisonross, I pray for the church who kicked you out. It sounds like the people have no compassion. I would never want to belong to a church like that. HORRIBLE!!!!
Posted by allisonross on November 19, 2005, at 19:36:30
In reply to Re: Dom and Allisonross, posted by lynn971 on November 18, 2005, at 20:38:54
> Dominique, I have and will continue to pray for you and your husband.
> ]
>
> Allisonross, I pray for the church who kicked you out. It sounds like the people have no compassion. I would never want to belong to a church like that. HORRIBLE!!!!((((Lynn))) Thankyou, sweetie....It's been 3 years, but still is a wound. I probably wrote my website, but just in case. www.churchabusepoetrytherapy.com
Thankyou, again, sweetie! Hugs and smiles, Ally
This is the end of the thread.
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