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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 59 to 83 of 115. Go back in thread:
Posted by Bobby on October 14, 2005, at 21:42:49
In reply to Re: You DON'T Need to understand triggers, posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 20:43:31
Believe me. you are too young to even think about such things. You have your whole life to get better. If any of us could only be 23 again! You have some good advice here when they tell you to get professional help---take it. What do you have to lose. you're young, intelligent and pretty. Go for it!!! Suicide is never the answer--nor is talking well of it. Good luck
bobby
Posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 21:53:50
In reply to Hamster girl » Deneb, posted by Bobby on October 14, 2005, at 21:42:49
Hammie...
I love hammieOh boy, here come the tears again...
hammie is so cute...I love hammie
he's so fuzzy and warm
I don't know what to do anymore.
I don't think I will hang myself tomorrow.
I think I will OD
I might go to the hospital
I can't let my parents find out
Posted by Bobby on October 14, 2005, at 22:13:52
In reply to Re: Hamster girl, posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 21:53:50
What will it do to your parents and who will take care of hammie? What's so wrong about seeking help--it sure beats the alternative
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on October 14, 2005, at 22:22:41
In reply to Re: Hamster girl » Deneb, posted by Bobby on October 14, 2005, at 22:13:52
Posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 22:23:45
In reply to Re: Hamster girl » Deneb, posted by Bobby on October 14, 2005, at 22:13:52
> What will it do to your parents and who will take care of hammie? What's so wrong about seeking help--it sure beats the alternative
What am I supposed to do? Go to the hospital and say that I seriously thought about ODing and hanging myself? Then what? What the hell are they supposed to do?
I've told this to people before, they tell me there isn't anything they can do for me. They tell me to go exercise.
I have to at least OD again before showing up for help. They won't take me seriously if I don't OD. I don't care if I accidentally die anymore. I hate my life. I have no life. I have no friends. I have no goals. I have NO life.
When I die, it doesn't matter what others think anymore. I will be free. I won't bother and upset people anymore. I'll be a ghost. I will travel through space and time and visit other worlds. It will be like a dreamworld. Or if there is nothing I'm fine with that too.
Posted by Bobby on October 14, 2005, at 22:27:12
In reply to Re: Hamster girl, posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 22:23:45
How can you be sure of these things?
Posted by gardenergirl on October 14, 2005, at 22:53:17
In reply to Re: Hamster girl, posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 22:23:45
Deneb,
You do not have to OD to be admitted to the hospital. If you tell them you are intending to hurt yourself, they are OBLIGATED to help you and to keep you safe.But you have to be absolutely HONEST with them about your feelings and thoughts.
You do NOT have to kill yourself. Please think hard about even ONE other alternative, even if you don't believe it will help. And then whenever you find yourself saying you have no choice, remind yourself about the other one. Choices equal freedom. Depression and mental illness impairs our ability to see choices.
I don't know your parents. But I am certain that I would want my daughter to reach out and to tell me if she were suffering like you are. Please give your parents a chance. And if they do not understand, reach out to professionals, who are much more likely to understand and to know how to help.I really want to see you get well. Your supportive and happy posts are a joy.
gg
Posted by Angela2 on October 14, 2005, at 23:08:08
In reply to hospital ***trigger*** » Deneb, posted by gardenergirl on October 14, 2005, at 22:53:17
Deneb, I am sorry you are in so much pain. Please don't kill yourself. There is so much to live for.
Posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 23:42:12
In reply to hospital ***trigger*** » Deneb, posted by gardenergirl on October 14, 2005, at 22:53:17
but I don't know what to do now
I just don't know what to do.
I think I'm going to live
but things are not changing
my problems are still there
I just don't know what to do now
should I OD tomorrow?
i don't have much time to decide
i think i will live, unless i get unlucky or am too afraid to seek help
either way, please please please don't contact my parents
i can't let them know
if I get locked up I will escape, I can't let my parents know
Posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 23:49:46
In reply to I've stopped crying, posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 23:42:12
I don't want to think anymore
I'm just going to go to sleep now
Posted by caraher on October 15, 2005, at 0:25:53
In reply to I've stopped crying, posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 23:42:12
Deneb, you really are a delightful presence. Don't hurt youself. Get help. Your problems are not as insurmountable as they seem. We care about you a lot and would hate to see you OD or worse. Take some time to just sit with Hammy or something calming when your soul is in such turmoil.
Posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 1:36:01
In reply to I'm tired, posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 23:49:46
Don't know what is going to happen tomorrow
don't know how to make my problems go away
don't know how to get my life back together
don't know how I can *not* attempt to kill myself after all the threats i made
don't think people here believe how much i suffer
I think I have to prove this by ODing tomorrow.
I think this place is bad for me.
i think some people don't understand me and don't believe me
I think I will OD to prove myself. If I die, that is the ultimate proof
I probably won't die, it's pretty difficult to kill oneself, I've done research on this
some people don't believe me here...i have to prove myself
Posted by crazy teresa on October 15, 2005, at 1:39:19
In reply to Can't sleep, can't stop crying, posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 1:36:01
Posted by crazy teresa on October 15, 2005, at 1:44:29
In reply to Can't sleep, can't stop crying, posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 1:36:01
the hospital than dead. You don't have to worry about them being angry because you ask for help.
I am a parent. My daughter ended up in the hospital and they helped her so much! It was sad to see her need to go there, but it was a huge relief that she got the help she needed.
Posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 1:47:13
In reply to Why won't you get help? (nm) » Deneb, posted by crazy teresa on October 15, 2005, at 1:39:19
What am I going to do?
I'm pretty sure I won't kill myself now. I think I'm going to OD.
Do I waltz into a hospital and say that I'm only thinking of ODing? not even of killing myself anymore? only of hurting myself? and then not even actually doing it?
What are they going to think?
Posted by crazy teresa on October 15, 2005, at 2:01:41
In reply to Re: Why won't you get help?, posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 1:47:13
Posted by crazy teresa on October 15, 2005, at 2:04:26
In reply to At least call them and see what they have to say. (nm) » Deneb, posted by crazy teresa on October 15, 2005, at 2:01:41
Posted by crazy teresa on October 15, 2005, at 2:09:56
In reply to Dial 411 and ask for the # to any suicide hotline. (nm) » crazy teresa, posted by crazy teresa on October 15, 2005, at 2:04:26
Posted by crazy teresa on October 15, 2005, at 2:12:06
In reply to Re: Why won't you get help?, posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 1:47:13
Posted by alexandra_k on October 15, 2005, at 4:42:55
In reply to Re: Need to understand triggers and suicide » alexandra_k, posted by ClearSkies on October 14, 2005, at 19:31:04
> I think you missed the point here, Alexandra - that there is an apology, then a repeat of action requiring an apology, then an apology...
Do you ever apologise without really understanding just what it is that you are apologising for? I do this sometimes.
What is the apology supposed to be for?
For other peoples hurt feelings?
For posting something to *make them feel* bad?
What did she do wrong (thinking of this thread - not past threads)?
Are we always required to stop our behaviour if other people feel upset as a result?
Couldn't there be situations where we have needs too?
The post said 'need to understand'. I think that indicated that she was going to be struggling with that in the thread
>if she hadn't done anything to upset people, then why the cycle of apology and posting repeatedly about the same subject?
Maybe because she can feel something of peoples frustration. When I feel like people are frustrated with me sometimes I get pretty scaired and apologise repeatedly even though I'm not really sure what went wrong.
>That's the problem with crying wolf
And maybe...
There is a problem with respect to considering it to be 'crying wolf' to start with...
Posted by alexandra_k on October 15, 2005, at 4:58:55
In reply to Re: CLARIFICATION Alexandra, posted by rainbowbrite on October 14, 2005, at 20:37:56
> If I had to ask someone if they were my firned they wouldnt be my firend. Im not following...
okay. sorry the example didn't work... i'm not so good at coming up with examples... i was trying to get at... how sometimes we can lose sight of something we 'know' at other times. when i'm really stressed out i start to feel a little paranoid. that people don't really want me around. one way of getting the reassurance i need (which i think we all probably need at times) would be to ask outright.
sometimes that isn't the best strategy as you note. there are other things you can do too. you can do something nice for someone so they are likely to express appreciation for you without your having to ask for it directly or whatever.
but i just meant that... sometimes when times are tough (when we are really upset) we need to hear something that we heard and accepted before... it just doesn't seem to be so accessible
(like a positive world view when one is entrenched in depression)
> I have been! there was no trigger to the post in question.
no. but it was going to be about understanding triggers etc - which kind of implies that she was having difficulty there.
> To me it feels like this is all a repeat over adn over agian but done with slightly differnet words.
i think that because of last time (where there was a joke)
you might be primed to see it that way this time too?i know this is really hard for you too.
that it is a hard topic.
and it is a hard topic for most people.i hate being triggered :-(
and sometimes i find stuff off the board triggers me for days...
((((rainbow))))maybe avoid all of denebs posts with 'trigger' or 'suicide' in the subject header?
i don't think you are too sensitive.
i have to avoid some posts at times too.
don't even open them.other people open them
other people may well be in a better place to deal with them
other people respond to themand then when one is feeling better one may be able to read.
or not...
but there are other people here and there is no obligation to read everything.sometimes i have trouble with particular posters even and we just seem to kind of ignore each others posts.
> Also forgetting happens to everyone. But how can you forget something like this? What I was trying to say is I just cant understand that.
when its your trauma...
it can be hard to figure out how to forget it.sometimes suicide can come to represent something very different indeed.
depending on how close one has come to it...
perhaps.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 15, 2005, at 5:10:19
In reply to Re: You DON'T Need to understand triggers » Deneb, posted by JenStar on October 14, 2005, at 20:26:21
> Manipulative
> being very overly dramaticI'm not sure how much these terms help...
> But the WAY you ask about it is clearly troubling to more than one poster.> Alexandra asks if that matters as long as you're staying within civility guidelines. If it matters to YOU, than it might be a sign that you need to change your behavior. If you LIKE the negative attention, then DON'T change your behavior. It depends on what you want and what you get.
Can you think of something that is important to you that results in negative attention from others? If you can't... Then can you imagine a scenario where there could be something that is important to someone that resulted in negative attention from others? Can you imagine cases where the person may be justified in continuing in their behaviour DESPITE it being met with negative reactions from others? And DESPITE their not continuing it with this goal in mind...
> But if you keep posting in the same old ways, you'll get the same old responses. If you want new responses, or to change people's opinions of you on the site, you'll need to change the way you interact. It's that simple.
Or the other option...
Would be to let other people take responsibility for their own responses.
To ignore their posts if they are negative
And trust the PBC Blocking system to interveane if posters get too pushy...with their attempt to alter ones behaviour...
guilt
guilt
guilt
can be a good way to get someone to do what you want them to doand how do we decide whether the person should stop their behaviour...
or whether we need to take more responsibility for our responses to it...
maybe if we don't have much that is positive to offer then we could leave posts for other people to offer something positive...
and i guess if the community is at a loss...
then the poster will eventually get sick of being ignored.
but will it come to that?
Posted by Nickengland on October 15, 2005, at 6:27:46
In reply to Re: Why won't you get help?, posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 1:47:13
A person with a borderline personality disorder often experiences a repetitive pattern of disorganization and instability in self-image, mood, behavior and close personal relationships. This can cause significant distress or impairment in friendships and work. A person with this disorder can often be bright and intelligent, and appear warm, friendly and competent. They sometimes can maintain this appearance for a number of years until their defense structure crumbles, usually around a stressful situation like the breakup of a romantic relationship or the death of a parent.
Symptoms
Relationships with others are intense but stormy and unstable with marked shifts of feelings and difficulties in maintaining intimate, close connections. The person may manipulate others and often has difficulty with trusting others. There is also emotional instability with marked and frequent shifts to an empty lonely depression or to irritability and anxiety. There may be unpredictable and impulsive behavior which might include excessive spending, promiscuity, gambling, drug or alcohol abuse, shoplifting, overeating or physically self-damaging actions such as suicide gestures. The person may show inappropriate and intense anger or rage with temper tantrums, constant brooding and resentment, feelings of deprivation, and a loss of control or fear of loss of control over angry feelings. There are also identity disturbances with confusion and uncertainty about self-identity, sexuality, life goals and values, career choices, friendships. There is a deep-seated feeling that one is flawed, defective, damaged or bad in some way, with a tendency to go to extremes in thinking, feeling or behavior. Under extreme stress or in severe cases there can be brief psychotic episodes with loss of contact with reality or bizarre behavior or symptoms. Even in less severe instances, there is often significant disruption of relationships and work performance. The depression which accompanies this disorder can cause much suffering and can lead to serious suicide attempts.Etiology
It is a common disorder with estimates running as high as 10-14% of the general population. The frequency in women is two to three times greater than men. This may be related to genetic or hormonal influences. An association between this disorder and severe cases of premenstrual tension has been postulated. Women commonly suffer from depression more often than men. The increased frequency of borderline disorders among women may also be a consequence of the greater incidence of incestuous experiences during their childhood. This is believed to occur ten times more often in women than in men, with estimates running to up to one-fourth of all women. This chronic or periodic victimization and sometimes brutalization can later result in impaired relationships and mistrust of men and excessive preoccupation with sexuality, sexual promiscuity, inhibitions, deep-seated depression and a seriously damaged self-image. There may be an innate predisposition to this disorder in some people. Because of this there may ensue subsequent failures in development in the relationship between mother and infant particularly during the separation and identity-forming phases of childhood.>>>*****Treatment*****<<< ***********************
Treatment includes psychotherapy which allows the patient to talk about both present difficulties and past experiences in the presence of an empathetic, accepting and non-judgemental therapist. The therapy needs to be structured, consistent and regular, with the patient encouraged to talk about his or her feelings rather than to discharge them in his or her usual self-defeating ways. Sometimes medications such as antidepressants, lithium carbonate, or antipsychotic medication are useful for certain patients or during certain times in the treatment of individual patients. Treatment of any alcohol or drug abuse problems is often mandatory if the therapy is to be able to continue. Brief hospitalization may sometimes be necessary during acutely stressful episodes or if suicide or other self-destructive behavior threatens to erupt. Hospitalization may provide a a temporary removal from external stress. Outpatient treatment is usually difficult and long-term - sometimes over a number of years. The goals of treatment could include increased self-awareness with greater impulse control and increased stability of relationships. A positive result would be in one's increased tolerance of anxiety. Therapy should help to alleviate psychotic or mood-disturbance symptoms and generally integrate the whole personality. With this increased awareness and capacity for self-observation and introspection, it is hoped the patient will be able to change the rigid patterns tragically set earlier in life and prevent the pattern from repeating itself in the next generational cycle."Richard J. Corelli, M.D."
http://www.stanford.edu/~corelli/borderline.html
Kind regards
Nick
Posted by Nickengland on October 15, 2005, at 6:45:01
In reply to Re: Why won't you get help? » Deneb, posted by Nickengland on October 15, 2005, at 6:27:46
Treatment
Treatments for BPD have improved in recent years. Group and individual psychotherapy are at least partially effective for many patients. Within the past 15 years, a new psychosocial treatment termed dialectical behavior therapy (DBT) was developed specifically to treat BPD, and this technique has looked promising in treatment studies. Pharmacological treatments are often prescribed based on specific target symptoms shown by the individual patient. Antidepressant drugs and mood stabilizers may be helpful for depressed and/or labile mood. Antipsychotic drugs may also be used when there are distortions in thinking.http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/bpd.cfm
-------------------------------------------------
Treatments for BPD have improved in recent years...
In 1991, a new psychosocial treatment termed Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) was developed specifically to treat BPD, and this technique was the first to show any efficacy compared to a control group. Marsha Linehan, the developer of DBT, said in the early days that it took about a year to see substantial enduring improvement. Combining SSRIs and DBT (probably the standard treatment now) seems to give satisfying synergy and faster results.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality
-------------------------------------------------
In Conclusion
Psychotherapeutic interventions have been shown to be the most effective intervention for modifying some forms of difficult behaviour displayed by people with personality disorders. These treatments require time and special expertise and should be delivered by specialist treatment facilities.
http://www.iop.kcl.ac.uk/iopweb/departments/home/default.aspx?locator=600
(Maudsley Hospital in London is possibly the best in the UK for psychiatric reseach from what I understand)
Best of luck I hope this information helps.
Best Wishes
Nick
Posted by holymama on October 15, 2005, at 7:13:03
In reply to Re: Why won't you get help?Deneb, posted by Nickengland on October 15, 2005, at 6:45:01
Thoughts about wanting to kill yourself without actually doing it is called 'suicidal ideation'. You definitely are experiencing that right now. Any hospital will accept you if you have suicidal ideation. You just tell them that you are thinking about it, and they will ask you if you have a plan on how you would do it. I think you have that too.
A lot of people go into the hospital without having tried to kill themselves. Just the thought to do it is enough. If you were to go into the hospital with just the thought to harm yourself, it means you were smart and prevented yourself from getting that far.
I've admitted myself to a psych hospital three times because of suicidal ideation. I couldn't get those thoughts out of my head and I didn't feel safe in that frame of mind.
Perhaps you have grown and learned enough since your OD so that you will get help BEFORE you do it, not after.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PROVING YOURSELF ON THIS WEBSITE! WE ALL KNOW HOW TWISTED OUR MINDS CAN GET WHEN WE ARE ILL, AND WE KNOW THAT SUICIDAL URGES COME AND GO. yOU DON'T NEED TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON A THREAT TO PROVE THAT YOU WILL DO WHAT YOU SAY. EVERYONE HOPES YOU WILL GET HELP FOR THESE FEELINGS AND THOUGHTS, NOT FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THEM.
~~Autumn~~
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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