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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lostforwards on October 1, 2005, at 15:59:01
I have a hypothetical situation to present:
Let's say there were people who had in their possesion psychotronics, electronic devices that can influence the nervous system, and directed energy weapons.
Let's say this group went after abusers and potential abusers. I'm talking about petty abusers. The ones who commit psychological crimes. ( not child abusers or physical abusers etc. )
Their method of treatment consists of repeatedly burning their targets frontal lobes with the directed energy weapon 'till the persons personality is blunted and the person becomes relatively docile. ( basically due to the brain damage )
Is this ethical? It already screams out to me NO! I'm curious to see how others see it.
Posted by Phillipa on October 1, 2005, at 21:49:59
In reply to I don't have a clue what to call this., posted by lostforwards on October 1, 2005, at 15:59:01
Lostforward, good to see you back. Last time I remembe hearing from you your arms were swinging back. Has this issue resolved and are you okay? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by lynn970 on October 1, 2005, at 23:31:13
In reply to I don't have a clue what to call this., posted by lostforwards on October 1, 2005, at 15:59:01
Is there such a thing as what you are talking about?
Posted by alexandra_k on October 1, 2005, at 23:48:24
In reply to I don't have a clue what to call this., posted by lostforwards on October 1, 2005, at 15:59:01
> Let's say there were people who had in their possesion psychotronics, electronic devices that can influence the nervous system, and directed energy weapons.
> Let's say this group went after abusers and potential abusers. I'm talking about petty abusers. The ones who commit psychological crimes. ( not child abusers or physical abusers etc. )
> Their method of treatment consists of repeatedly burning their targets frontal lobes with the directed energy weapon 'till the persons personality is blunted and the person becomes relatively docile. ( basically due to the brain damage )> Is this ethical? It already screams out to me NO! I'm curious to see how others see it.
- Do you think it makes a difference whether the targets are 'petty' abusers / potential abusers or 'hard core' abusers / potential abusers?
- Is there another way? For example... Locking people up to prevent their re-offending? If there is a 'more humane' alternative then I don't think this method would be justified.
- If someone is 99.9% likely to commit an act of abuse then it is morally acceptable to punish them before they have committed the act? I think most people would say 'no'. Doesn't matter how high the chance that they will offend is... It is still possible that they never go on to do that.
There is already such an operation...
A frontal lobotomy.
That was done on people with mental illness.
To placate them.
To give them a new lethargic personality so they wouldn't cause any trouble.
It is considered unethical now.
But I guess some people are drugged up into equivalent states...
Posted by lostforwards on October 2, 2005, at 8:36:57
In reply to Re: I don't have a clue what to call this. » lostforwards, posted by Phillipa on October 1, 2005, at 21:49:59
Yeah, I'm doing better with regards to that( TD symptoms ) now. Thanks.
Posted by lostforwards on October 2, 2005, at 8:38:36
In reply to Re: I don't have a clue what to call this. » lostforwards, posted by lynn970 on October 1, 2005, at 23:31:13
> Is there such a thing as what you are talking about?
As far as I know, directed energy weapons do exist and are possibly feasible. I'm not sure if there's a group of people using them in the way I described though.
Posted by lostforwards on October 2, 2005, at 8:42:14
In reply to Re: I don't have a clue what to call this. » lostforwards, posted by alexandra_k on October 1, 2005, at 23:48:24
Hi,
How's it going?I guess it all comes down to the likely hood that the person in question would commit an act of abuse.
Posted by ed_uk on October 2, 2005, at 9:01:22
In reply to I don't have a clue what to call this., posted by lostforwards on October 1, 2005, at 15:59:01
Hi Lost,
Nice to see you again but....... I'm confused.
~Ed
Posted by alexandra_k on October 2, 2005, at 10:00:24
In reply to Re: I don't have a clue what to call this. » alexandra_k, posted by lostforwards on October 2, 2005, at 8:42:14
> Hi,
> How's it going?:-)
Not so bad, thanks for asking.
Good to see you back on the boards.> I guess it all comes down to the likely hood that the person in question would commit an act of abuse.
Lets say there is a 99.9% chance that someone will commit an act of abuse...
That means that there is a 0.1% chance that they WONT commit an act of abuse.
The odds aren't grand, that is true...
But you don't know whether they are a member of a group with loads of other abusers...
Or whether they are a member of a group who do not go on to abuse.
I am morally opposed to punishing people when they haven't done anything wrong.
And until a crime is committed...
They haven't done anything wrong.
If you are interested there is a book called "Philosophical Investigations" that deals with a similar issue. It is set in the future and scientists have found that men who are VMN negative are highly likely to go on to committ violent crimes. Someone manages to find all the people who are VMN negative... Is he justified in 'preventing' their probable offending by eliminating them? He tries to convince you through the course of the book...
Posted by alexandra_k on October 2, 2005, at 10:09:01
In reply to Re: I don't have a clue what to call this. » lostforwards, posted by alexandra_k on October 2, 2005, at 10:00:24
and on a related note...
i do believe there is a gene
which in conjunction with an abusive / traumatic early childhood environment
means that males are indeed more likely to go on to abuse others.so the technology is getting there...
what disturbs me...
is what is going to happen to those 0.1%
just how much society is going to condemn them
before they have even done anything wrong
and also...
self fulfilling prophecy
psychiatry is bad enough at that as it is...
if a condition is supposed to be chronic
but peopled dx'd with that condition actually go on to show improvement, to get better
then they say they were mis-dx'd in the first place
because people with that disorder don't get better by definitiongrr
best not get me started...
Posted by Nickengland on October 2, 2005, at 13:28:38
In reply to I don't have a clue what to call this., posted by lostforwards on October 1, 2005, at 15:59:01
Hi lostforwards,
>Let's say there were people who had in their possesion psychotronics, electronic devices that can influence the nervous system, and directed energy weapons.
What kind of people do you mean?
>Let's say this group..
Who are the group?
>The ones who commit psychological crimes.
Could you give examples of the psychological crimes?
Kind regards
Nick
Posted by Nickengland on October 2, 2005, at 13:41:39
In reply to Re: I don't have a clue what to call this., posted by alexandra_k on October 2, 2005, at 10:09:01
Hi Alexandra,
>i do believe there is a gene
which in conjunction with an abusive / traumatic early childhood environment
means that males are indeed more likely to go on to abuse others.There is also recent reseach findings linked to both environmental and genetic factors that shows adults are considerably more likely to be the victim of violence and other crimes due to the links with their illness.
Kind regards
Nick
Posted by lostforwards on October 2, 2005, at 15:59:04
In reply to Re: I don't have a clue what to call this. » lostforwards, posted by Nickengland on October 2, 2005, at 13:28:38
> Hi lostforwards,
>
> >Let's say there were people who had in their possesion psychotronics, electronic devices that can influence the nervous system, and directed energy weapons.
>
> What kind of people do you mean?
>
> >Let's say this group..
>
> Who are the group?
Just a random hypothetical group.
>
> >The ones who commit psychological crimes.
>
> Could you give examples of the psychological crimes?
>
verbal abuse. emotional blackmail.> Kind regards
>
> Nick
>
>
Posted by lostforwards on October 2, 2005, at 15:59:37
In reply to Re: I don't have a clue what to call this. » lostforwards, posted by ed_uk on October 2, 2005, at 9:01:22
Hi
Posted by sunny10 on October 3, 2005, at 10:45:23
In reply to Re: I don't have a clue what to call this. » ed_uk, posted by lostforwards on October 2, 2005, at 15:59:37
First, I wouldn't call any type of abuse "petty"...
that being said, IMO it is unethical to punish someone before a crime has been committed. As it is, people are supposed to be considered innocent until proven guilty...(yeah, right, like that's true these days...)
People CAN decide to acknowledge their tendencies and go get help, thus the 0.1% number might even get a little higher....
Just my .02
Posted by dominique on October 3, 2005, at 21:30:28
In reply to I don't have a clue what to call this., posted by lostforwards on October 1, 2005, at 15:59:01
I don't believe that this is a safe practice!!!!!!!!!!!! Burning lasers into someone's brain will for the most part kill off the brain cells in the area or fry them to just under "burnt". Not a good idea!!!!!!! It is as if they are going back in time to hammer and chisel into your eye sockets to achieve nothing......
Dom
Posted by lostforwards on October 4, 2005, at 9:43:13
Again. Earlier I posted a message about a group that went after people with abusive or potential abusive personalities. They aren't physical abusers,child abusers,sexual abusers, etc. The individuals may be completely innocent and haven't really commited any crimes.
The group makes use of directed energy weapons to repeatedly burn the persons frontal lobes until the persons personality is blunted due to the brain damage.
I'm against this treatment. I think it's barbaric and out dated.
How do you feel about it?
Posted by NikkiT2 on October 4, 2005, at 13:19:47
In reply to hypothetical situation - poll, posted by lostforwards on October 4, 2005, at 9:43:13
Sorry.. I did see your poll, but didnt know what tp say..
Do you believe this practice is happeing??
Nikki
Posted by lostforwards on October 4, 2005, at 14:23:05
In reply to Re: hypothetical situation - poll » lostforwards, posted by NikkiT2 on October 4, 2005, at 13:19:47
> Sorry.. I did see your poll, but didnt know what tp say..
>
> Do you believe this practice is happeing??
>
> NikkiYes, I do believe it's happening. There are countless innocents being shot in the head with directed energy weapons. I know that sounds absurd but it's true.
On the plus side I'm willing to bet that people with advanced technology aren't psychos. I still disagree with shooting a person in the head with a directed energy weapon ESPECIALLY if that person hasn't done anything or very little ( on the scale of verbal abuse or even less - like nothing).
The danger is the group becomes the high hand of justice and gets to make whatever judgement calls they want.
Posted by ed_uk on October 4, 2005, at 15:23:04
In reply to Re: hypothetical situation - poll, posted by lostforwards on October 4, 2005, at 14:23:05
Gosh, this all sounds a bit unlikely.
~ED
Posted by JenStar on October 4, 2005, at 16:33:06
In reply to hypothetical situation - poll, posted by lostforwards on October 4, 2005, at 9:43:13
when you say "directed energy weapons" do you mean specified amounts of electricity, as in shock treatment? Or are you talking about a frontal lobotomy?
Are you using "words of war" to discuss current recognized medical techniques with which you don't agree....or are you saying that someone out there is doing unsanctioned, illegal experimentation without someone's consent?
Sorry, I didn't see your earlier post so I apologize if you addressed some of my questions there.
JenStar
Posted by lostforwards on October 4, 2005, at 16:56:50
In reply to Re: hypothetical situation - poll » lostforwards, posted by JenStar on October 4, 2005, at 16:33:06
> when you say "directed energy weapons" do you mean specified amounts of electricity, as in shock treatment? Or are you talking about a frontal lobotomy?
>
No I mean a ray gun. Something like a microwave based weapon.> Are you using "words of war" to discuss current recognized medical techniques with which you don't agree....or are you saying that someone out there is doing unsanctioned, illegal experimentation without someone's consent?
>
I'm not talking about methods of treatment. Though I think this group considers what they do - repeatedly firing at a persons frontal lobes till the persons personality becomes blunted - a treatment.Of course, I'm not sure how much or how many times they fire at the persons brain. There is no consent.
> Sorry, I didn't see your earlier post so I apologize if you addressed some of my questions there.
>
> JenStarMy earlier post is here:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20050929/msgs/561664.html
This is the end of the thread.
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