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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 27. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phil on March 4, 2005, at 19:31:38
In reply to Re: Dread and procrastination, posted by Mark H. on March 4, 2005, at 19:17:59
Mark, I'm very grateful you posted that info. I greatly respect your intelligence and I needed to hear from another 'sleeper'. I'm also having a very difficult time with work and all that goes with it. Thanks...
Phil
Posted by Mark H. on March 4, 2005, at 20:14:36
In reply to Re: Dread and procrastination » Mark H., posted by Phil on March 4, 2005, at 19:31:38
Thank you for your kind comments, Phil. I know you've been having a tough time at work (and on weekends too). Is it going any better? Did your doctor have any suggestions for you this week?
One of the keys to feeling better for me was getting on methylphenidate (Ritalin) during the day. My bipolar/refractive/atypical depression is such that I'd literally fall asleep at my desk by 2:00 in the afternoon if I weren't taking a stimulant, and my body can't handle caffeine. If everyone's body chemistry were like mine, Starbucks would be a controlled substance and Ritalin would be sold over the counter. :-)
I hope you have a good weekend. I'm thinking good thoughts for you, Phil.
With best wishes,
Mark H.
Posted by TamaraJ on March 4, 2005, at 20:34:36
In reply to Re: Dread and procrastination, posted by Mark H. on March 4, 2005, at 19:17:59
Mark,
I know this is going to sound like a stupid question, so please forgive me and humor me if you don't mind. Does the "dread" eventually subside once a person gets on the right AD or right combo of meds. I, actually, am becoming increasingly afraid that I am going to be living with this almost paralyzing dread forever. And, I have never really been a person to be fearful of life's challenges (although I do suffer from social phobia which I have been managing to control).
Thank you.
Tamara
Posted by Phil on March 4, 2005, at 20:37:07
In reply to Re: Dread and procrastination » Phil, posted by Mark H. on March 4, 2005, at 20:14:36
> Thank you for your kind comments, Phil. I know you've been having a tough time at work (and on weekends too). Is it going any better? Did your doctor have any suggestions for you this week?
>>Mark, he just suggested dropping my Klonopin dose by a third on weekends so I might be able to stay awake.
>
> One of the keys to feeling better for me was getting on methylphenidate (Ritalin) during the day. My bipolar/refractive/atypical depression is such that I'd literally fall asleep at my desk by 2:00 in the afternoon if I weren't taking a stimulant, and my body can't handle caffeine. If everyone's body chemistry were like mine, Starbucks would be a controlled substance and Ritalin would be sold over the counter. :-)>>I've said the same thing about coffee and Ritalin. I'm just now noticing the horrible effects w/ caffeine. I think our DX may be the same. I work at a job that I can take a nap at my desk during lunch-I go out completely during that time.
What dose of Ritalin are you taking and does it trigger mania at all with you?
>
> I hope you have a good weekend. I'm thinking good thoughts for you, Phil.>>Thanks so much, Mark. I'd say more but I'd probably talk for a week.
>
> With best wishes,
>
> Mark H.
>
>> Wishing you well, too.
Phil
Posted by Dinah on March 4, 2005, at 21:02:32
In reply to Dread and procrastination, posted by All Done on March 4, 2005, at 16:03:03
I'm very similar at times. I am like forty different people when it comes to sleep.
Except that I seem to feel better the less I sleep. I'm generally a ten hour a night sleeper, and can't get by on less than eight. But if I manage to get over the hump, I'm most cheerful at way less than that. And most depressed when I catch up on my sleep.
My sleep schedule is probably a major contributor to my mood swings, but it's just too hard to give up the good feelings that come from sleep deprivation.
Posted by Mark H. on March 4, 2005, at 21:08:02
In reply to Re: Dread and procrastination, posted by Phil on March 4, 2005, at 20:37:07
Hi Phil,
I've been steady at 40mg a day of Ritalin for the past several years. Some days I go as high as 60mg if I need to be very sharp in the afternoon for a demanding project, but that might average one day a week.
I've never had a problem with Ritalin triggering hypomania. Right now, this spurt of energy I'm experiencing is from my doctor having added in a bit of Lamictal last week. I find that I'm more energized, but I also have less impulse control -- I occasionally blurt out things to my colleagues that I normally would have enough sense not to say.
I haven't had a bout of hypomania for about three years now, I think, ever since I added in 2.5mg of Zyprexa into my mix of meds. I sleep wonderfully and I don't experience those awful agitated and angry states that I used to.
Here's my current regimen:
Morning:
Cytomel, 25mcg (potentiates the Effexor)
Pindolol, 2.5mg (blunts effects of too much adrenaline production)
Methylphenidate, 40mg (keeps me awake during the day; also potentiates the Effexor)
Effexor, 150mg (maintained at this level since 1997, thanks to the potentiating effects of the adjunctives I take, above)
and starting about 10 days ago, Lamictal, 25mg (to see if we can head off my expected depressive trough that's due to hit me in May).
Evening:
Clonazepam, 2.5mg (to control my kicking -- helps my wife sleep much better)
Pindolol, 5mg (a beta-blocker, again helps keep me from being over-stimulated by adrenaline)
Zyprexa, 2.5mg (AP, gives deliciously dreamy sleep, seems to prevent hypomania in me).
I hope that's not more than you wanted to know!
Best wishes,
Mark H.
Posted by Phil on March 4, 2005, at 21:19:39
In reply to Re: My Current Meds » Phil, posted by Mark H. on March 4, 2005, at 21:08:02
Mark..I appreciate the info. I love reading about folks that are 'doped up' like me! : )
Man, I've got to crash now.Sweet dreams man,
Phil
Posted by Mark H. on March 4, 2005, at 21:24:31
In reply to Re: Dread and procrastination » Mark H., posted by TamaraJ on March 4, 2005, at 20:34:36
Dear Tamara,
I think you asked a very intelligent question. In my experience, the sense of dread becomes manageable through a combination of good medications and the willingness to make yourself do things that you frankly don't want to do. The latter requires prioritizing, in my opinion, or else we just exhaust ourselves with trying to be what we're not.
The prioritizing part is asking yourself how important it is for you to participate in a certain activity, whether it's attending a friend's wedding (high) or cleaning your garage (low). For me the dread eases with experience. For instance, if I know that having dinner with dear friends who share my values will be a mutually nurturing and refreshing experience, then it's fairly easy to set aside my dread about having to socialize. On the other hand, if it's an office party, I probably just won't go, and I have to make a conscious decision that that's OK and be comfortable with it.
Mostly, I think it's important to be gentle with yourself, to "manage" yourself with as much compassion and care as you would naturally extend to anyone else who was suffering as you are.
With kind regards,
Mark H.
Posted by KaraS on March 4, 2005, at 21:41:59
In reply to Dread and procrastination, posted by All Done on March 4, 2005, at 16:03:03
> Why do I dread just about everything? I understand why I dread things I don’t really want to do, but I constantly find myself dreading and subsequently procrastinating about things I like to do.
>
> Tomorrow, I’m going to a spa with my best friend since freshman year of high school to have 90 minute massages. Then, we are going to shop and I’m taking her to a restaurant we both love for her birthday. I know once I get there, I’m going to have a great time, but right now, I feel like I want to cancel.
>
> I think in a way this happens with sleep for me, too. I’ve always loved to sleep long hours whenever I had the chance. It’s one of my favorite pastimes ;). For some reason, though, I’ve always been a night owl. Even when I was a kid, my mom would tell me as long as I was in my bedroom and quiet, I didn’t have a set bedtime. So, I stayed up until all hours of the night reading. It worked okay then because I would “catch up” with my sleep on the weekends when I could barely be dragged out of bed. Now, I stay up late doing a whole lot of nothing, but I don’t have the luxury of sleeping all weekend anymore. I can usually cope with the lack of sleep, but every once in a while it really catches up with me. This is so strange to me because I love the feeling of crawling under the covers and falling asleep. It’s never been difficult for me to fall asleep. So, why can’t I get myself to the bed even when I’m utterly exhausted?
>
> There are two things I never dread. Picking up my son from daycare and going to therapy.
>
> Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated :).
>
> Laurie
Yeah, I dread almost everything too. (Getting on the computer is one of the few things I don't dread so I often find refuge here.) It's definitely related to depression. I think anxiety plays into it in my case as well because I worry about what could come up that I'd have to deal with. It's a subtle kind of a worrying though. It's more like I just don't have the energy to deal with whatever might come up.I'm a nightowl as well. If you're like me, you are at your least depressed in the evening. That's when I have the most energy and motivation. Since I've just started to feel semi-alive, I don't want to go to sleep. I haven't found the cure for this yet. I suppose if I got to the point where I couldn't wait to get up in the morning, then maybe I'd be more inclined to go to sleep at night at a decent hour.
Anyway, not much in the way of advice here but at least you know you're not alone. Enjoy your day with your friend!
Kara
Posted by daisym on March 4, 2005, at 23:42:15
In reply to Dread and procrastination, posted by All Done on March 4, 2005, at 16:03:03
Laurie,
I think partly the urge to stay up is to soak in some of the peace that comes with nightfall. There is less universal demand on you, no matter what the demands are. It is OK to wait until tomorrow to do whatever...clean, pay bills, return phone calls, whatever. I find that in the middle of the night the world is still in a way that it never is during the day. That hush...allows me to just be with me, no pretense, no expectations. Of course, it also gives space for memories and dark thoughts, but that is another thread.
I don't know. The dread goes down at night for me. I agree with some of the other posters, the dread is about not having the energy to do something, even if it is pleasant. Even making conversation sometimes feels like a chore.
I wish I knew what to tell you worked...sometimes pushing works, sometimes giving yourself permission to pass on activities works. Just remember that isolating yourself too much is not a good thing.
Take good care,
Daisy
Posted by All Done on March 5, 2005, at 1:43:35
In reply to Re: Dread and procrastination, posted by Mark H. on March 4, 2005, at 19:17:59
> As a fellow sleepy-head, I suggest going to bed earlier. After years of trying to convince myself otherwise, I finally realized that if I go to bed at 8:00 PM and sleep for 11 or 12 hours, I really do feel MUCH better the next day. Of course this wouldn't work if my spouse didn't like to go to bed early too, but fortunately she does.
Usually, my husband goes to sleep around 11. I stay up for hours after that, so I suppose it would be an improvement if I went to bed when he did. I just seem to have a terrible aversion to actually *going* to bed. Sigh. I know it would be so much better for me :(.
> The dread you feel is common with depression.
Yeah. I kind of thought I've been doing better since I started on Wellbutrin and sometimes I am. But I wondered if these feelings are associated with depression.
> I'll spend an hour writing an email to avoid picking up the phone and actually interacting with someone, or I'll delegate the interaction to someone else.
I'm okay with personal interaction, but I can relate to spending a lot of time on things like writing an email. I sometimes wonder if everyone else spends as much time writing their posts as I do. It's why I don't post often :(.
> Almost every morning I recite "I can do this" over and over to get myself to work by 10 AM. I'm deeply grateful to colleagues who tolerate my modified schedule.
I'm the same way. Well, having a two year old in the house doesn't make it any easier to get out in the morning, but for that and my sleep schedule I'm thrilled that my boss is okay with me starting sometime between 9 and 10.
> I hope you find a sleep schedule that works for you. Have a great time tomorrow with your friend!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Mark H.Thank you, Mark! I wish it were easier for both of us.
Take care,
Laurie
Posted by All Done on March 5, 2005, at 1:45:36
In reply to Re: Dread and procrastination » Mark H., posted by Phil on March 4, 2005, at 19:31:38
Sorry your having a difficult time with work, Phil.
I hope things improve for you.
Take care,
Laurie
Posted by All Done on March 5, 2005, at 1:51:04
In reply to Re: Dread and procrastination » Mark H., posted by TamaraJ on March 4, 2005, at 20:34:36
> Mark,
>
> I know this is going to sound like a stupid question, so please forgive me and humor me if you don't mind. Does the "dread" eventually subside once a person gets on the right AD or right combo of meds. I, actually, am becoming increasingly afraid that I am going to be living with this almost paralyzing dread forever. And, I have never really been a person to be fearful of life's challenges (although I do suffer from social phobia which I have been managing to control).
>
> Thank you.
>
> Tamara
That's a very good question, (((Tamara))). Hardly stupid.Hopefully we can manage to overcome the dread.
Take care,
Laurie
Posted by All Done on March 5, 2005, at 1:56:50
In reply to Re: Dread and procrastination » All Done, posted by Dinah on March 4, 2005, at 21:02:32
> I'm very similar at times. I am like forty different people when it comes to sleep.
>
> Except that I seem to feel better the less I sleep. I'm generally a ten hour a night sleeper, and can't get by on less than eight. But if I manage to get over the hump, I'm most cheerful at way less than that. And most depressed when I catch up on my sleep.
>
> My sleep schedule is probably a major contributor to my mood swings, but it's just too hard to give up the good feelings that come from sleep deprivation.Dinah,
Seems regardless of how much sleep I get, I usually have one mood - blah. Maybe if more sleep made a noticible difference in imporving my mood, I would have more of a motivator to get to bed.
(May I suggest that while your T is out of town, you stay up late a lot? ;) )
Hang in there this week and let us know what you need.
Laurie
Posted by All Done on March 5, 2005, at 2:12:32
In reply to Re: Dread and procrastination » All Done, posted by KaraS on March 4, 2005, at 21:41:59
> Yeah, I dread almost everything too. (Getting on the computer is one of the few things I don't dread so I often find refuge here.) It's definitely related to depression. I think anxiety plays into it in my case as well because I worry about what could come up that I'd have to deal with. It's a subtle kind of a worrying though. It's more like I just don't have the energy to deal with whatever might come up.
>
> I'm a nightowl as well. If you're like me, you are at your least depressed in the evening. That's when I have the most energy and motivation. Since I've just started to feel semi-alive, I don't want to go to sleep. I haven't found the cure for this yet. I suppose if I got to the point where I couldn't wait to get up in the morning, then maybe I'd be more inclined to go to sleep at night at a decent hour.
>
> Anyway, not much in the way of advice here but at least you know you're not alone. Enjoy your day with your friend!
>
> Kara
>Kara,
I am definitely more productive in the late afternoon and evening. I really feel like my personal clock is so different than the average person. Why on earth did I learn to "start" my day at 4 p.m.?
It always helps to know I'm not alone, but I'm sorry you deal with this, too.
I'm sure I will enjoy my day tomorrow (once it gets started ;).) Thanks!
Take care,
Laurie
Posted by All Done on March 5, 2005, at 2:28:40
In reply to Re: Dread and procrastination » All Done, posted by daisym on March 4, 2005, at 23:42:15
> Laurie,
>
> I think partly the urge to stay up is to soak in some of the peace that comes with nightfall. There is less universal demand on you, no matter what the demands are. It is OK to wait until tomorrow to do whatever...clean, pay bills, return phone calls, whatever. I find that in the middle of the night the world is still in a way that it never is during the day. That hush...allows me to just be with me, no pretense, no expectations. Of course, it also gives space for memories and dark thoughts, but that is another thread.
>
> I don't know. The dread goes down at night for me. I agree with some of the other posters, the dread is about not having the energy to do something, even if it is pleasant. Even making conversation sometimes feels like a chore.
>
> I wish I knew what to tell you worked...sometimes pushing works, sometimes giving yourself permission to pass on activities works. Just remember that isolating yourself too much is not a good thing.
>
> Take good care,
> DaisyDaisy,
It is much quieter in my house after everyone's in bed but me :). I've always looked at my late night hours as "me time". Regardless of what "needs" to be done, I don't feel or hear the demands on me nearly as much.
And I've really tried since I've had my son to tell myself that certain things can wait (or be dropped entirely). Unfortunately, I feel like I've pushed the limits with that. Sigh.
I appreciate your response, Daisy. Please take good care of yourself, too.
Laurie
Posted by Phil on March 5, 2005, at 3:53:00
In reply to Re: (((((Phil))))), posted by All Done on March 5, 2005, at 1:45:36
Laurie, Thank you. I just woke up from a nightmare about work. : )
Guess we're both having sleep problems. The hallmark problem of this exciting cluster of diseases we all battle.
I'm wishing you well, too. I wish I had some answers for us both.Hugs to you..
Phil
Posted by Dinah on March 5, 2005, at 8:59:02
In reply to Re: Dread and procrastination » All Done, posted by daisym on March 4, 2005, at 23:42:15
That hits home. I often think I'd rather be quiet than sleep, or do most anything else. That stillness is so healing.
Posted by TamaraJ on March 5, 2005, at 10:15:19
In reply to Re: Dread and procrastination » TamaraJ, posted by Mark H. on March 4, 2005, at 21:24:31
Thank you so much Mark. I have spent the better part of my life not setting limits and imposing boundaries, and I know that changing my mindset will be quite an adjustment (but a necessary one). No has never really been a common word in my vocabulary. I know I have to treat myself the way I would treat others, but it so much easier to extend care, compassion and nurturing to others. Your words have given me not only much to think about but also much to act on.
All the best to you.
Tamara
Posted by TamaraJ on March 5, 2005, at 10:19:23
In reply to Re: Dread and procrastination » TamaraJ, posted by All Done on March 5, 2005, at 1:51:04
> > Mark,
> >
> > I know this is going to sound like a stupid question, so please forgive me and humor me if you don't mind. Does the "dread" eventually subside once a person gets on the right AD or right combo of meds. I, actually, am becoming increasingly afraid that I am going to be living with this almost paralyzing dread forever. And, I have never really been a person to be fearful of life's challenges (although I do suffer from social phobia which I have been managing to control).
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Tamara
>
>
> That's a very good question, (((Tamara))). Hardly stupid.
>
> Hopefully we can manage to overcome the dread.
>
> Take care,
> Laurie
>
Thanks Laurie. Your thread really hit a chord with me. I have been struggling with the same feelings as you, but have been having a hard time figuring out what exactly it was that I was feeling. For the longest time I thought it was anxiety, but that just didn't make sense. So, I am grateful to you for starting the thread. I, too, hope we can overcome the dread. I fear it may have now become a part of me, but I will perservere.I hope you have a great time spending the day with your friend!
All the best to you, and take good care.
Tamara
Posted by TamaraJ on March 11, 2005, at 12:50:54
In reply to Dread and procrastination, posted by All Done on March 4, 2005, at 16:03:03
Laurie,
Did you end up enjoying the spa and the day with your friend? I hope you had a really good time, felt relaxed and pampered after the massage and enjoyed a nice meal and some catching up with your best friend.
All the best to you :-)
Tamara
> Tomorrow, I’m going to a spa with my best friend since freshman year of high school to have 90 minute massages. Then, we are going to shop and I’m taking her to a restaurant we both love for her birthday. I know once I get there, I’m going to have a great time, but right now, I feel like I want to cancel.
Posted by All Done on March 11, 2005, at 14:30:05
In reply to Laurie - Did you enjoy your day? » All Done, posted by TamaraJ on March 11, 2005, at 12:50:54
> Laurie,
>
> Did you end up enjoying the spa and the day with your friend? I hope you had a really good time, felt relaxed and pampered after the massage and enjoyed a nice meal and some catching up with your best friend.
>
> All the best to you :-)
>
> TamaraThanks for asking, Tamara! As I anticipated, I had a really nice time and there was absolutely nothing to dread. (I highly recommend a 90-minute massage followed by excellent Italian food ;).)
I planned to meet my friend in the afternoon immediately after my therapy session. So, I talked a little bit about the dread with my T. There was other stuff I talked about first, which didn't leave much time, but he wants to know more about what I'm feeling and when I'm feeling it. He seemed to agree that it's part of depression which, at times, may be lifting for me but at others is still there. I suppose, like everything, it's a process.
I can completely relate to what you said earlier about worrying that the dread has become a part of me. My T often refers things that might "just" be a part of my character. I hope this isn't one of them.
And what you said about saying no...don't even get me started. I've always bent over backwards for everyone. Everyone but myself, that is. I didn't even know what a boundary was before I started therapy. I hope you can learn to give good care, compassion, and nurturing to yourself. You deserve it :).
Laurie
Posted by TamaraJ on March 13, 2005, at 16:42:15
In reply to Re: I did :) » TamaraJ, posted by All Done on March 11, 2005, at 14:30:05
> Thanks for asking, Tamara! As I anticipated, I had a really nice time and there was absolutely nothing to dread. (I highly recommend a 90-minute massage followed by excellent Italian food ;).)
>
-- I got a SPA gift certificate for Christmas, and still haven't quite made up my mind what to use it for, but a massage would be nice. The place does hot stone massages, so that might be something different to try.> I planned to meet my friend in the afternoon immediately after my therapy session. So, I talked a little bit about the dread with my T. There was other stuff I talked about first, which didn't leave much time, but he wants to know more about what I'm feeling and when I'm feeling it. He seemed to agree that it's part of depression which, at times, may be lifting for me but at others is still there. I suppose, like everything, it's a process.
>
-- I, too, think it may be a symptom of depression. I have found that since I started nortriptyline over a week ago the dread isn't as pervasive as it had been. I hope that it lifts completely for you really soon. It's certainly a weird and unnerving feeling :-(> I can completely relate to what you said earlier about worrying that the dread has become a part of me. My T often refers things that might "just" be a part of my character. I hope this isn't one of them.
>
-- Oh Laurie, I don't think you have to worry about it "just" being a part of your character. If it was, I would think that it really wouldn't be that disturbing a feeling - you would have grown used to it (if that makes sense). I certainly don't think you are a Ziggy or a Shleprock by nature :-).
>
> And what you said about saying no...don't even get me started. I've always bent over backwards for everyone. Everyone but myself, that is. I didn't even know what a boundary was before I started therapy. I hope you can learn to give good care, compassion, and nurturing to yourself. You deserve it :).
>
-- "No" is so hard to say. What was that song "Sorry seems to be the Hardest Word"? I think someone needs to write a song "No seems to be a next to impossible word" :-) I'm sure eventually we'll both get to a point where we have achieved a balance and are able to assertively establish healthy boundaries.You take good care of yourself Laurie. Wishing you nothing but happiness and fulfillment, which you deserve :-)
Tamara
Posted by annierose on March 13, 2005, at 20:41:17
In reply to Re: I'm so glad :-) » All Done, posted by TamaraJ on March 13, 2005, at 16:42:15
Just to jump in here - My husband received a gift certificate for spa services and he gave it to me to use (good move!). Anyway, I decided to try the hot stone massage (90 minutes) and it was WONDERFUL. I don't like being touched by strangers, so I thought this would help, and I couldn't care less about what she was touching (or seeing) the heat from the stones was so relaxing!! AWESOME! They press the stones into your body and I just melted. She also kept stones in my hands and feet and kept re-heating them throughout the hour. Go for it. I can't wait to do it again.
-Annie
Posted by TamaraJ on March 13, 2005, at 21:12:54
In reply to Re: Hot stone massage » TamaraJ, posted by annierose on March 13, 2005, at 20:41:17
It sounds great! I have been having such a hard time making up my mind about the treatments I want to have. After hearing about your experience with the hot stone massage, I think I will go for it! Thanks so much.
Tamara
> Just to jump in here - My husband received a gift certificate for spa services and he gave it to me to use (good move!). Anyway, I decided to try the hot stone massage (90 minutes) and it was WONDERFUL. I don't like being touched by strangers, so I thought this would help, and I couldn't care less about what she was touching (or seeing) the heat from the stones was so relaxing!! AWESOME! They press the stones into your body and I just melted. She also kept stones in my hands and feet and kept re-heating them throughout the hour. Go for it. I can't wait to do it again.
>
> -Annie
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