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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 15 to 39 of 48. Go back in thread:
Posted by alexandra_k on February 11, 2005, at 22:11:29
In reply to Re: Support versus Education » Dinah, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on February 11, 2005, at 21:49:39
I mean, I posted it because my thinking was along the lines of Dinah's.
> The way it was pointed that the person got "MOST OFFENDED" makes me think that the suggestion had a bit of a personal edge to it
This person gets MOST OFFENDED maybe 4 days out of 7 (and not just at me). That was sort of one of the symptoms I had in mind...
>why single out one person, unless you yourself have the disorder and then there is a connection.
Well I would hardly provide a link to a disorder I knew nothing about.
> I'm also guessing that if someone was hurt by it, it was likely suggested that they may "consider" the possiblity of having a disorder which implied something wrong with their entire being, rather than one aspect of it.I am not sure they would see the difference there. Not only that, but it was a link to a personality disorder yes.
> It's so easy to forget just how close to the edge someone may be, and I think offering such a suggestion could be a dangerous thing, as well as arrogant.I did carefully select non-judgemental links that were good descriptions of symptoms from the experiencer's point of view. The idea behind it was 'these problems are inter-related', other people have similar stuff, there is hope. Also, the person often asks *why* this sort of thing *always happens* to her. The links provided something of a non-judgemental answer.
But I agree with you.
It wasn't my place.
Probably did it out of frustration more than I would like to admit.
Need to get better at the old self-control.
Learn to leave things alone.
Posted by jujube on February 11, 2005, at 22:41:42
In reply to Re: Support versus Education » Gabbi-x-2, posted by alexandra_k on February 11, 2005, at 22:11:29
FWIW, I don't think it is a matter of whether it is a person's "place" to educate or not. It is a judgement call - one person may well be receptive to an educational approach while another may not. I think in reading other people's posts, we become aware, to some degree, of a person's response expectations (support, education, a combination of the two). No two people are the same, and I think it is impossible to apply a cookie-cutter approach when dealing with people and responding to posts. Some people welcome and thrive on a more direct approach, while others learn and grow with a softer, gentler approach. I guess we have to learn to pick our moments. Who knows.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 11, 2005, at 22:56:27
In reply to Re: Support versus Education » alexandra_k, posted by jujube on February 11, 2005, at 22:41:42
Thanks for that. Good post :-)
I guess I knew she would be upset at the time...
Thought over time she might be willing to have another look...
It could have been there for her to find in the archives...
But no
It is deleted forever...
There are much more unhelpful links out there :-(Oh well.
I don't know if I regret it or not...
Posted by All Done on February 12, 2005, at 1:47:42
In reply to Support versus Education, posted by alexandra_k on February 11, 2005, at 20:11:42
Hmm...I seem to have a lot to say on this matter. Not entirely sure why, but I'll think about it.
>> Not just nauseating support that is never ending and doesn't help one progress from needing constant never ending support...Wow. Nauseating? Doesn't help? Maybe they aren't looking for progress at that moment, they just really, truly need a place for support?
>> If anyones can tell me *what* I did wrong here - if anything - I would be grateful...I'm not going to tell you what you did was wrong. FWIW, I'll just give you my feelings on the whole thing. (BTW, I read all the posts involved).
I once started a thread asking if I should ask my pdoc for a dx. I wasn’t sure I was ready to hear the "official" word regardless of what it might be. I most certainly wouldn’t have wanted another poster making the jump from what I say in my posts (as opposed to the whole "picture" of me that one might understand better IRL) to a possible dx. What I write about in my posts are just a part of what makes up me.
And if I already had a dx from a pdoc, it would make me a bit uncomfortable to have someone questioning it. Imagine if I posted that I was overweight and my doctor told me it was due to hypothyroidism and put me on medication to treat it. Then, I posted that I was really upset about my weight problem and I got a response with a link to information about diabetes, Overeaters Anonymous, Cushing’s Syndrome or anything else that might cause weight gain. If nothing else, I’d feel offended that my doctor, the one I chose and put my trust in, is being second guessed. And I'd feel offended if it was assumed I did not already research all the possibilities myself.
It is, of course, a whole other ball of wax if I had asked for opinions of the dx.
>> The poster could have done what they wanted with it but in this case they got MOST OFFENDEDDo you think at least part of her strong reaction may have stemmed from the fact that she has asked you on more than one occasion not to post to her? I read her post in response to your deleted posts and I’m not 100% sure whether she was more offended by what you were suggesting or the simple fact that you posted to her.
Don't get me wrong. I believe there is a time and place for posters to offer the kind of education you were trying to provide. An actual request for the information would be a good start, but in instances where there isn't a direct request, but it seems like it might be helpful to the poster anyway, I would first consider the emotional state of the poster and my own relationship with him or her (among a billion other things...but that's just me ;)).Not sure if any of this makes sense and I really hope I haven't been uncivil in trying to explain my thoughts. I don't feel very organized this evening.
Take care,
Laurie
Posted by Dinah on February 12, 2005, at 9:19:34
In reply to Re: Support versus Education » Dinah, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on February 11, 2005, at 21:49:39
I bow to your superior powers of observation. :)
And Alexandra, perhaps you could take the deletion less personally if you think of it as for the benefit of the other poster rather than as an indictment of you. We all know Dr. Bob doesn't do it, but if you look at it from that point of view, you might be able to keep a viable source of support.
Posted by gardenergirl on February 12, 2005, at 9:45:05
In reply to Support versus Education, posted by alexandra_k on February 11, 2005, at 20:11:42
Not to stir up board comparison controversy again...this is just my own observation and my own preference....
One of the things I really love about Babble is that I get both support and advice/education. I think part of that is because people here know me, and as Jujube quite beautifully pointed out, you develop a sense for what the person is asking for, and what else they might be able to consider that maybe they hadn't thought of.
My experience at another site is that unless I specifically ask for advice, I get supportive posts in return. Nothing wrong with that, but I guess because I'm not really known there and have not developed the relationships there as I have here, they seem less satisfying to me.
In regards to your situation over at the other site, I babblemailed you on it. But I also want to agree with AllDone about the do not post to me thing. Of course asking on one board does not preclude you from posting on another, but I think this poster is not inclined to appreciate any posts from you right now, since she has asked you not to post.
I did see what you were trying to say in the post that was deleted. I know I would value someone pointing me in a direction to look that maybe I hadn't thought of. Especially if they had had the opportunity to observe something in me that might fit. And especially if we had a relationship where I trusted their judgement.
I think education is good. And there is a difference between education and advice, imo. I see that clearly at times in posts here that perhaps sometimes do not have the effect that the author may have intended. Although I am inferring intent and responding to their posts as an individual, so I guess you can't generalize from my own observations. (backpedal backpedal backpedal)
So, there are my associations to your situation. For what it's worth...
One thing I appreciate about your posts, alexandra, is the critical thinking you put into them. Always makes me think, too.
Warmly,
gg
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on February 12, 2005, at 13:49:48
In reply to Re: Support versus Education » Gabbi-x-2, posted by Dinah on February 12, 2005, at 9:19:34
> I bow to your superior powers of observation. :)
Oh is that what it was? I think perhaps it was me knowing how I feel sometimes, I just have the good fortune of a very patient civility buddy. : )
Posted by Dinah on February 12, 2005, at 14:28:46
In reply to Re: Support versus Education » Dinah, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on February 12, 2005, at 13:49:48
In that case I bow to your superior powers of empathy.
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on February 12, 2005, at 14:36:22
In reply to :-) » Gabbi-x-2, posted by Dinah on February 12, 2005, at 14:28:46
> In that case I bow to your superior powers of empathy.
>
> Well seeing as you insist on being down there, can I toss you a cloth? My mom's coming to visit, and the floors are kinda yucky.
Posted by Dinah on February 12, 2005, at 17:37:23
In reply to Re: :-) » Dinah, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on February 12, 2005, at 14:36:22
Gladly.
And since you're up there can I toss you a cloth? We're converting a room into a library and the walls need a good rinse.
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on February 12, 2005, at 20:03:46
In reply to lol » Gabbi-x-2, posted by Dinah on February 12, 2005, at 17:37:23
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on February 12, 2005, at 20:13:17
In reply to Re: Support versus Education » alexandra_k, posted by All Done on February 12, 2005, at 1:47:42
Sorry Just getting the thread back on track
Posted by alexandra_k on February 12, 2005, at 21:18:40
In reply to Re: Support versus Education, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on February 12, 2005, at 20:13:17
Thanks all. Loads to think about. Just two points.
1) Yes I have been requested to not post to this person. I have broken that twice. The first was an attempt at an amicable parting of ways and a request that she not post to me. The second was the post we are discussing now. She has also broken my request not to post to her on two occasions. Both times to express how very offended she was with me.
So the moral of that is: we are both as bad as each other in that respect. Ugh. I just wanted to say that in case people are thinking I am continually breaking her requests and *harassing* her.
But yeah. Point taken. The cycle stops here.
2) Second point. My posts weren't deleted because I was requested not to post to her, or because she was offended (apparantly). It was made clear they were deleted because the *content* was objectionable.
IMO not so. Not so *very objectionable* that it warranted a deletion.
I anticipated she would be offended.
I didn't take that terribly personally though.
There isn't really a good time to say what I did.
I thought it might be useful to her one day
When she was ready.But by deleting them the good is gone and all that is left is the bad.
Whatever.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 12, 2005, at 21:22:32
In reply to Re: Thanks everyone, posted by alexandra_k on February 12, 2005, at 21:18:40
To qualify the *whatever*
This is no good
This is no goodWe'll be asking Dr B for a board to deal with admin issues at PC next.
Or at least I will.
I just don't know what to do with it when you can't post about it. So I post about it somewhere I don't get into trouble for posting about it. But it is fairly inappropriate.
So.
There it is.
PS. Good point Dinah. You are right :-)
But there are only so many hours in the day and you guys keep me happily amused more than you should anyways :-)
Posted by gardenergirl on February 12, 2005, at 21:28:48
In reply to Re: Thanks everyone, posted by alexandra_k on February 12, 2005, at 21:18:40
>
> 1) Yes I have been requested to not post to this person. I have broken that twice. The first was an attempt at an amicable parting of ways and a request that she not post to me. The second was the post we are discussing now. She has also broken my request not to post to her on two occasions. Both times to express how very offended she was with me.Yes, you are right about her posting, too. Sorry I wasn't more clear.
gg
>
>
Posted by All Done on February 13, 2005, at 2:15:31
In reply to Re: Thanks everyone » alexandra_k, posted by gardenergirl on February 12, 2005, at 21:28:48
>
> >
> > 1) Yes I have been requested to not post to this person. I have broken that twice. The first was an attempt at an amicable parting of ways and a request that she not post to me. The second was the post we are discussing now. She has also broken my request not to post to her on two occasions. Both times to express how very offended she was with me.
>
> Yes, you are right about her posting, too. Sorry I wasn't more clear.
>
> gg
> >
> >Me, too. Sorry I wasn't more clear, Alexandra. I wouldn't necessarily say that two wrongs makes a right, but I didn't mean to say anything that would give the opinion that you were harassing her.
I should have also said I'm sorry this was so upsetting for you. So, I've given you my opinion on the whole thing. Care for a hug, now?
(((((alexandra)))))
Take care,
Laurie
Posted by All Done on February 13, 2005, at 2:17:23
In reply to Re: Thanks everyone, posted by All Done on February 13, 2005, at 2:15:31
Posted by alexandra_k on February 13, 2005, at 15:16:30
In reply to Re: Thanks everyone, posted by All Done on February 13, 2005, at 2:15:31
Oh, thats ok.
I wasn't really upset. Just a bit pissed off. Over it already.
Not upset with anyone here.
(((All Done))).
Hugs are good.
Posted by Damos on February 16, 2005, at 15:09:45
In reply to Re: Thanks everyone » All Done, posted by alexandra_k on February 13, 2005, at 15:16:30
What, even from Aussies???? Surely that'd be going way to far =0).
Posted by alexandra_k on February 16, 2005, at 19:50:56
In reply to Re: Thanks everyone, posted by Damos on February 16, 2005, at 15:09:45
Don't push your luck, alright?????
(I am kidding)
Where are you from in Aussie anyways????
(You don't have to answer if you want to be verrrrrry anonymous - but I would be interested).
PS you will have to put up with crocodile digs every now and then. Hell, I have to put up with them even though I point out that THERE BLOODY WELL AREN'T ANY IN NZ.
I think us Australasians should stick together, really
:-)
At least we are into summer
:-)
:-)
:-p
Posted by AuntieMel on February 17, 2005, at 16:06:47
In reply to Re: except possibly australians » Damos, posted by alexandra_k on February 16, 2005, at 19:50:56
Posted by alexandra_k on February 17, 2005, at 17:31:58
In reply to are jokes about sheep ok? (nm) » alexandra_k, posted by AuntieMel on February 17, 2005, at 16:06:47
per head of population than in nz.
So fire away :-)
Although, here are a few Aussie jokes...
How can you tell the virgin wool in nz?
They are the sheep that can run faster than the farmers.Why is NZ called the land of the long white cloud?
Cause god likes to cover up his mistakes.How can you tell the bride at a nz wedding?
She's the one wearing the white gumboots.
Posted by Damos on February 17, 2005, at 20:19:05
In reply to Re: except possibly australians » Damos, posted by alexandra_k on February 16, 2005, at 19:50:56
I'll try not to, but I've been dramatically unsuccessful for 40 years now so I can't promise anything =0)
I'm a Sydney boy. currently posting you from my desk at work overlooking the harbour and Opera House and out to the heads. Lifes hard. Actually live about 40 mins west by train, out near a place called Parramatta (the so-called geographic heart of Sydney). Yes that makes me a loooooong suffering Waratahs supporta.
What's the only thing more depressing than watching the Waratahs on TV?
Watching them live.
One of the funniest things Clive James ever said was: "Why did God create America?" ......"So there was a place to keep Americans!" Ouch.
Croc jokes are okay as is pretty much anything else. I've got pretty thick skin - goes with the head! Still doing a bit of emotional big wave surfing as part of my withdrawal - bought 20 CDs in the last 2 days, and there's only one real dud amoung them
Oops gotta go. Take care ey.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 17, 2005, at 20:50:44
In reply to Re: except possibly australians, posted by Damos on February 17, 2005, at 20:19:05
> I'm a Sydney boy. currently posting you from my desk at work overlooking the harbour and Opera House and out to the heads.
Cool. Have to admit the only place I have been in Sydney is the airport. Well, I had to taxi round from international to domestic so I saw a little tiny bit of Sydney too ;-). I do have to say that I was very impressed with the ashtray. A nice big metal one with sand in it and everyone stood their butts upright. I almost took a picture :-) You can get a good view of the opera house as you fly in. Amazing.
I have been to Tasmania and Canberra. Spent close to 3 months in Canberra last summer. Peoples tell me that they are hardly representitive of the rest of Australia, though. Have you been to NZ?
>Actually live about 40 mins west by train, out near a place called Parramatta (the so-called geographic heart of Sydney). Yes that makes me a loooooong suffering Waratahs supporta.
Hmm. And there are the Parramatta Eels too, aren't there. (Is one rugby and the other league??? - I'm not much of a sports nut.)
> What's the only thing more depressing than watching the Waratahs on TV?
> Watching them live.Heh heh.
I am from Hamilton.
Waikato.
> One of the funniest things Clive James ever said was: "Why did God create America?" ......"So there was a place to keep Americans!" Ouch.Thats okay, beats what Freud said about America ;-)
> Croc jokes are okay as is pretty much anything else. I've got pretty thick skin - goes with the head! Still doing a bit of emotional big wave surfing as part of my withdrawal - bought 20 CDs in the last 2 days, and there's only one real dud amoung them:-)
> Oops gotta go. Take care ey.Yup. You too. Mate.
Posted by AuntieMel on February 18, 2005, at 9:12:31
In reply to there are more sheep in australia..., posted by alexandra_k on February 17, 2005, at 17:31:58
Where men are men and sheep are scared.
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