![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 19 to 43 of 43. Go back in thread:
Posted by Jai Narayan on November 18, 2004, at 12:20:56
In reply to Re: people killing people » Jai Narayan, posted by MKB on November 18, 2004, at 10:29:55
Since life seems to be filled with a variety of perceptions and points of view:
can we agree that one person's liberation might just be another person's oppression?*for instance, I don't think I would want to be killing someone so that I could be a force for liberation, no matter what the motivation.
*I certainly wouldn't like to be the person being killed because someone's concept of liberation didn't include my way of being in this world.I find the topic of good and evil to be difficult.
Spirituality, for me, includes a variety of ways of looking at and being in the world.
My spirituality is a very personal topic that I really don't debate.Jai Narayan
Posted by MKB on November 18, 2004, at 12:40:48
In reply to can one persons liberation be anothers oppression?, posted by Jai Narayan on November 18, 2004, at 12:20:56
Yes! Aren't you glad you live in a country where you are free to believe as you wish? Aren't you glad you are not forced to be a particular religion? Aren't you glad someone was willing to fight for your freedom and that you don't have to fight for it? Aren't you glad that regardless of the debate about spiritual beliefs we have the voting booth? I thank God every day that I have been the beneficiary of the sacrifices of others, including 16 ancestors who were Patriots in the American Revolution.
Posted by Jai Narayan on November 18, 2004, at 12:59:23
In reply to Re: can one persons liberation be anothers oppression? » Jai Narayan, posted by MKB on November 18, 2004, at 12:40:48
Funny it seems like we are in open but with a luxury of time to type.
Jai
Posted by MKB on November 18, 2004, at 13:01:24
In reply to I too am a DAR daughter, posted by Jai Narayan on November 18, 2004, at 12:59:23
Well, you will have to carry on. I'm on my way out of town for the birth of my first grandchild.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 18, 2004, at 13:39:33
In reply to Re: off topic, but important, posted by gromit on November 18, 2004, at 1:16:33
> their hypocrisy.
>
> gromitPlease respect the views of others and be sensitive to their feelings. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 18, 2004, at 13:39:57
In reply to Re: off topic, but important, posted by peace train on November 18, 2004, at 9:36:42
> It's a little ironic, but hardly surprising that a Jew invented suicide
> bombing & not an Arab.When you're blocked, you're not supposed to post, so now I'm going to block you from posting for 9 weeks.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by gromit on November 18, 2004, at 13:53:00
In reply to Re: off topic, but important » gromit, posted by MKB on November 18, 2004, at 8:07:04
> Your post, as well as some before yours, is offensive to me. My sons are in the Army Reserve. They serve because they choose to. No one has forced them to sign up. They love the Army, love this country, and admire our President. No one forced any of our military to join. They are all volunteers and know it is part of their job to go where they are sent. This is a chance they take in return for the numerous benefits, including free college education. No one wants to lose a child. But I already know that if one of my sons loses his life there, he will have died doing what he wanted to do and doing it proudly.
I didn't intend to offend anyone. Your post could also be considered offensive, you seem to be implying that because one doesn't support the war they aren't proud to be American and don't support our troops. I understand that we have a volunteer army and like I said those guys are heroes, your sons are heroes. If my son chose to go in the service I would be proud of him of course.
I am not proud of our foreign policies, especially the current administration's policy of shoot first ask questions later. I am angry about the so called "Patriot Act" and many other abuses of the Bill of Rights and I'm not going to apologize for having an opinion others disagree with.
Rick
Posted by gromit on November 18, 2004, at 13:56:19
In reply to Re: I too am a DAR daughter » Jai Narayan, posted by MKB on November 18, 2004, at 13:01:24
Posted by gromit on November 18, 2004, at 14:01:08
In reply to Re: please be civil » gromit, posted by Dr. Bob on November 18, 2004, at 13:39:33
I can get a little worked up sometimes, didn't mean to offend anybody.
Posted by Jai Narayan on November 18, 2004, at 14:05:52
In reply to Re: off topic, but important » MKB, posted by gromit on November 18, 2004, at 13:53:00
What babble appears to be is a place for support not the forum for political statements.
I am sad about not having a place to do that.
but I love PB too.
I have gotten 2 PBC just today.
One on the grief site the other on faith.
I have been a bad girl.
honesty I get way to relaxed on these sites and start saying things I would say to friends....
I forget...
this is not my beautiful house, this not my.....
I am on a public forum with lots of people who have many different points of view and I can make them feel bad and unsupported when I let my hair down.
So I must ever be vigilant and careful and kind.
vigilant, careful and kind.
Jai
Posted by Jai Narayan on November 18, 2004, at 14:13:28
In reply to Re: I too am a DAR daughter » Jai Narayan, posted by MKB on November 18, 2004, at 13:01:24
I now have two grand babies. so special.
Do you know if it's a boy are girl being born?
Please keep us posted.
Jai
Posted by partlycloudy on November 18, 2004, at 14:32:49
In reply to Re: off topic, but important, posted by Jai Narayan on November 18, 2004, at 14:05:52
That's why I can't even let myself join in these threads; my "censor yourself" button has been crosswired. I can tell others to play nice but don't do it myself...
Posted by Gabbix2 on November 18, 2004, at 14:38:21
In reply to Re: off topic, but important » Jai Narayan, posted by partlycloudy on November 18, 2004, at 14:32:49
I can tell others to play nice but don't do it myself...
Me neither, Jai I admire your ability to do so though.
Posted by Jai Narayan on November 18, 2004, at 14:41:42
In reply to Re: off topic, but important » Jai Narayan, posted by partlycloudy on November 18, 2004, at 14:32:49
thanks.
I never had such a hard time as I am having now.
the job of just play nice....
it's hard.
jai
Posted by Gabbix2 on November 18, 2004, at 15:19:29
In reply to Re: off topic, but important, posted by Jai Narayan on November 18, 2004, at 14:41:42
> thanks.
Your welcome, I never used to be the type to keep quiet about these things, I don't know what has changed, but you have been "fighting?" many
of my political and faith battles for me without knowing it.
Posted by gromit on November 18, 2004, at 19:11:53
In reply to Re: off topic, but important » Jai Narayan, posted by Gabbix2 on November 18, 2004, at 15:19:29
> Your welcome, I never used to be the type to keep quiet about these things, I don't know what has changed, but you have been "fighting?" many
> of my political and faith battles for me without knowing it.I should know better than to talk religion or politics, especially on PB. I'll stick to meds and supplements from now on.
Rick
Posted by Gabbix2 on November 18, 2004, at 19:42:18
In reply to Re: off topic, but important, posted by gromit on November 18, 2004, at 19:11:53
> > Your welcome, I never used to be the type to keep quiet about these things, I don't know what has changed, but you have been "fighting?" many
> > of my political and faith battles for me without knowing it.
>
> I should know better than to talk religion or politics, especially on PB. I'll stick to meds and supplements from now on.It's hard to know when you are copping out or not, but I think I just kind of realized that there are some people who really enjoy hearing other points of view and ponder them (I love hearing what other people believe, and why, as long as they don't take my questioning them as confrontation) but there are other people who are just going to keep quoting, and there is no point in trying to add anything to their repretoir.
Also there are some people here who's views are critically thought out, yet different from my own like Dinah, who I genuinely don't want to offend, but they aren't the ones who make my face hot :)
Posted by gromit on November 19, 2004, at 1:07:41
In reply to Re: off topic, but important » gromit, posted by Gabbix2 on November 18, 2004, at 19:42:18
Yeah my wife can be, um, I'll say inflexible on some issues, like religion and politics. I will sometimes argue just for the sake of arguing, and god knows I've been in a very bad place where a topic like this, especially when it involves your kids, would be upsetting. I don't mean to imply that is the case with MKB, I'm talking about myself only.
I think whoever posted bad topic hit it on the nose, this is not the appropriate forum for me to vent about politics.
Rick
Posted by AuntieMel on November 19, 2004, at 11:53:51
In reply to Re: off topic, but important » gromit, posted by MKB on November 18, 2004, at 8:07:04
<<<<<<The only positive thing I can see is unlike our last misguided "police action" we are not blaming our own soldiers for doing their job. Mostly they are heroes who have the misfortune to have a boss who is not.....gromit
<<<<<<They serve because they choose to. No one has forced them to sign up. They love the Army, love this country, and admire our President....MKB
Both of you make valid points, and both of you speak to things that touch me personally.I remember well the first police action that gromit speaks of. My ex served in the jungles and saw many of his friends reduced to chipped beef. This was something he struggled with for a very long time [hence the ex. try as I wanted to help, I never could.] I also had several friends over there.
While I was a rabid peace-nik, I never, ever blamed the guys over there, never spat at them or called them baby killers. Most of them were drafted and would have rather been at home, so it was actually easier to separate the war from the warrior.
Fast forward. My son was in the air force between the '91 gulf war and this one. He supported (from the ground, luckily) the enforcement of the northern and southern no-fly zones and was sent over during the serbia/albania conflict. While I *strongly* supported the missions, I was scared poopless when he was over there and watched cnn 24 hours a day.
Fast forward again. I have very mixed feelings about the conflict we are in now. I never believed that there were "wmds" over there, and I didn't believe that they were involved in 911 either, but I did feel that anyone that would gas his own people should be dealt with, and I still believe we should do our best to stop similar situations.
BUT this *is* turning into an echo of the first "police action" where we are taking a spot, then giving it up. There isn't enough orginization or manpower, and I think anyone would have to agree it isn't going well. I strongly fear that it will turn into something that is stretched out for years and years, or worse, that we will abandon the country and leave it a worse mess than it was.
And I have a really hard time with the term "insurgent" in this context. Because I can guaran-darn-tee you that if our contry were invaded, now matter how bad the leadership, I would be out there scratching and clawing to get them out.
And "terrorist" in this context is bad too. Terrorism is directed toward innocent folks, designed to induce fear in the populace. Any manner of attacking troops is, by definition, not terrorism.
Remenber we got our independence with the use of "unconventional" warfare.
I'll get off the soapbox now.
Posted by gromit on November 19, 2004, at 19:35:13
In reply to For gromit and MKB, posted by AuntieMel on November 19, 2004, at 11:53:51
Freedom fighter or terrorist depends on your perspective I guess. It wasn't that long ago that we were supporting Iraq in their war with Iran and the Soviet Union. Our enemies enemies are our friends don't you know. There are definately what I would call terrorist acts going on though it's not really clear if these are Iraqis (sp?) or if they have crossed the border. If they are Iraqis they are killing an awful lot of their own people.
These are people who feel they are compelled by their god to hijack planes loaded with civilions and use them as weapons. To strap a vest of explosives around themselves and detonate it in a crowd to kill as many as possible. They are not going to accept anything but an Islamic government. I really believe this is a fight that we just can't win.
I'm starting to get depressed thinking about this too much. I don't think I'll be watching the news or reading the paper for a while.
Rick
Posted by Jai Narayan on November 20, 2004, at 9:23:31
In reply to Re: For gromit and MKB, posted by gromit on November 19, 2004, at 19:35:13
Yes, I agree with you 100%.
I get my news from DemocracyNow! with Amy Goodman.
We also read: The Nation & Harper's magazines.You sound like a kindred spirit.
I like what you said and find it very hard to be able to express myself on PB.
Recently I got 2 PBC in one day.
I am getting way too close to the edge lately.
I love your name Gromit.
Can you tell me about that name?
Let's remember who we are and how we can be supportive of each other.
I remember years ago in art school, I attended a meeting where a woman presented her political art work. We strained to see where she had hidden and encoded the political content in her art. She had to explain how she had done it and that people who didn't use the code were dissapeared (killed and hidden) along with their art.
She was from Santiago, Chili.
On an interesting note: Pablo Neruda died one year after Allende was murdered in Santiago, Chili during a coup d'état. Neruda was so depressed that there's some question that his depression contibuted to his death from leukemia.
We are all connected and what happens to one person has a ripple effect.So take heart, I am listening and sympathic to your comments and feelings.
Jai
Posted by gromit on November 20, 2004, at 17:43:21
In reply to Re: For gromit, posted by Jai Narayan on November 20, 2004, at 9:23:31
I agree that our feelings can have a big effect on our health. I know after a fight with my wife I often get a cold or flu. I notice too that with an older couple who have been married for a long time, when one of them dies the other often dies soon afterwards.
About my name, http://www.wallaceandgromit.com/home2.asp
I bought all three movies for myself a few years ago, I just got them again on DVD. My 18 month old son can watch the same Elmo's World every night. I cannot, so we have a lot of movies and rotate them. He really enjoys them, highly recommended even if you don't have young kids.
Ok, now comes the part that puts me out of my comfort zone. Like a lot of guys I have a hard time expressing my emotions. I guess this is part society and part my dad. He was from the school of thought that you must bury your feelings deep inside. Alot of the time I have a problem just identifying what I am feeling.
Anyway to my point, I appreciate your support but I have a hard time accepting it or even talking about these things. This is something I struggle with, if I seem cold it is not you. I've been lurking here for a while, and just started feeling comfortable enough to post on the other boards. I have avoided this board though, honestly it scares me to death. The only reason I posted here was because I have such strong feelings about that topic. I can't even talk with my wife about my feelings, our relationship, my brain just shuts down and I want to go do something else. I know I should stay here and talk but I just can't.
Rick
Posted by Jai Narayan on November 20, 2004, at 19:52:57
In reply to Re: For gromit » Jai Narayan, posted by gromit on November 20, 2004, at 17:43:21
Okay I love that animation. I have seen them all.
Well, I am impressed with as much as you did share.
thank you.I, on the other hand, am way too emotional...or so all my family say. I can't imagine not being able to express my emotions. So I guess between the two of us we make a center.
My best to you and your family
good night.
jai
Posted by gardenergirl on November 20, 2004, at 21:38:12
In reply to Re: For gromit, posted by Jai Narayan on November 20, 2004, at 19:52:57
Posted by gromit on November 21, 2004, at 1:52:57
In reply to Re: For gromit, posted by Jai Narayan on November 20, 2004, at 19:52:57
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.