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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Racer on June 23, 2004, at 16:44:54
And I'll *try* to make it short...
When I posted a request a while ago for examples of mood charts, it was for a project that I've made up to occupy myself while I wait for anything to happen -- like getting adequate treatment. I'm making my very own mood chart, so that I can see if there are any trends that stand out. Obviously, since I'm trying to address my very own issues, there aren't any pre-made charts that track what I want to track. You're all with me so far, right?
Is anyone here familiar with MicroSoft Access? It's a relational database program, and you can pretty much invest a four year degree in relational databases without really learning it all. Needless to say, I didn't. (I did attend two classes for work, a decade ago, and have several of the "best" books on the subject.)
So, how is it going? Well, I'm not sure whether to laugh or pull out what's left of my hair! Today I finally realized that it's not me -- the "best" book on Access is written by one of those old-fashioned geeks who cannot communicate with "normal" people. I'm reading through, and trying to comprehend his examples, his concepts, etc -- and it hits me (I can prove it, it left a bruise): It's not my utter lack of cognitive ability! Whoohoo! (It is so nice when that happens.)
Mind you, it really is one of the very best books ever written on MS Access, and a lot of the problem is inherent in both the subject and the program involved. (MS Access is flawed in that it's neither a strong programming tool nor a good end-user product. It tries very hard to be both, and that makes it weak in both departments. Nature of the beast, it is what it is.) And I am having problems with cognitive impairment right now, and with attention span, concentration, being able to sustain activities, etc. (What can I say? Nature of the beast, in this case depression.)
But I needed to vent about this a little. What this world really needs is a good, basic book about MS Access that meets *my* needs. (And, admittedly, my needs are pretty specific -- I don't need the relational database design principles so much, and I don't need the in-depth discussions of the arcane issues discussed in this book, but it would help if this book used consistent 'real world' examples throughout, rather than all the A1.a2 examples that it uses for most principles. The 'real world' type examples are very helpful in this book, but the inconsistency between using them and using the math notations has been a problem for me. Oh, yeah, and the writer does that thing I have always kinda liked about old fashioned geeks: he's so enthusiastic about the subjects involved that he takes *pages* to explain completely something that could be pretty well understood in less than a paragraph. Now, that's *great* over a couple of pints at the pub -- I really have always loved that sort of thing -- but when I have a specific project in mind, know the basic principles involved and really just want a useful "how-to" -- well, let's just say I may be bald by this time next week.)
Whoops! Got long again... Maybe that's why I like that geek thing so much? lol
Posted by TofuEmmy on June 23, 2004, at 18:01:32
In reply to Venting frustration about a computer issue, posted by Racer on June 23, 2004, at 16:44:54
Have you considered crayons, paper, and a series of happy/sad faces instead? :-) :-(
Em ;-)
P.S. Try to cram those suckers into a Ghant Chart
Posted by Racer on June 23, 2004, at 18:33:37
In reply to Re: Venting frustration about a computer issue, posted by TofuEmmy on June 23, 2004, at 18:01:32
*That* cracked me up. It might just be the solution...
But what the [avoiding a PBC] is a Ghant Chart? Or are you gonna make me google it?
Posted by Racer on June 23, 2004, at 18:36:42
In reply to Re: Venting frustration about a computer issue, posted by TofuEmmy on June 23, 2004, at 18:01:32
I did google it, and it looks as if it might be pretty useful... Thanks for edumacating me.
Posted by NikkiT2 on June 24, 2004, at 2:23:09
In reply to Venting frustration about a computer issue, posted by Racer on June 23, 2004, at 16:44:54
I've just bought myself a CD Rom to teach me access.. My last job was as an administrator of a relational database.. But I've never used Access and one of my jobs in my new job will be to build one in Access..
The CD is actually pretty good.. and was only £10.. I bought it at Borders..
The two books I've bought int he past have the rubbish!!!
Nikki x
Posted by Racer on June 24, 2004, at 11:03:44
In reply to Re: Venting frustration about a computer issue » Racer, posted by NikkiT2 on June 24, 2004, at 2:23:09
There's two kinds o' peeple in this world, my girl: them as can program, and them as can write...
Problem is, they can't seem to get the two skills together very well!
When the Computer Center shut down -- and don't tell me I wasn't irreplaceable, they gave up and shut down when I left -- they let me take any of the reference materials I wanted, as well as giving me copyright on all the class handouts I'd written for them. I've got a TON of Access material, because we had so many requests for classes in it. I could never come up with a way to structure the class that would fit our program, although I did offer privately arranged classes in special cases.
When my husband gets his own monitor and I can have this one back; and when I get my computer fixed -- if it can be -- after one of his finest moments that still REALLY upsets me; I'm going to reload my Corel Office Suite, and pretend that this whole thing never happened.
(By the way, if the whole MS Office thing sounds personal to me, it goes WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY back. In another life, I was an accountant, and used first VisiCalc, then it's daughter product SuperCalc. I loved those programs, and didn't particularly care for Lotus. Ancient history, huh? Anyway, we got a new Controller, who had SuperCalc removed from all our computers, saying that, no matter what we thought, there was support available for Lotus that SuperCalc couldn't provide, and therefore we were dropping it.)
(Last part, funny story about the result: I was transferring my payroll spreadsheet to Lotus and ran into a problem. I called Lotus support. The first guy listened to what I was trying to do, said, "Lady, our program doesn't do that." I said, "Look, I'm trying to do A, B, C." He said, "But our program doesn't do A, B, OR C." I told him, "I've got it doing A, it's almost doing B, but I can't get it to try C." Him: "Oh, yeah, right: I'm telling you, Lotus doesn't do A, let alone B or C. If you say it's doing A, tell me how? Huh?" You can imagine the tone, right? So I tell him how I've gotten A to work, and his tone changes -- "Huh, yeah, that *would* work, wouldn't it? Hang on a sec -- Bob, get over here, you gotta hear this one!" I ended up on the speaker phone with three support guys at Lotus, explaining how I was getting their program to do what I needed it to do -- and I mean formula line by line, macro line by line, etc [pre-internet days] -- and the three of them sounding stunned that they hadn't thought of these things, and "wow! That really would work!" The end result was it couldn't work on that computer with that program, because there just wasn't enough memory available, nor could it handle the calculations with that processor. Mind you, it had worked just find in SuperCalc... That *was* a funny experience, and once they were all on the telephone it was more fun than frustrating for me. And man I felt vindicated when I got to tell that controller that the working SuperCalc routine was impossible on Lotus!)
Good luck with your new project, Miss Nikki. I am in awe of anyone who can truly manage a relational database. I can do the basics like creating mailing lists and billing cycles, but the real thing has always been beyond me. I tip my hat to you.
Posted by NikkiT2 on June 24, 2004, at 11:30:28
In reply to Yeah, well, at least we know the problem... » NikkiT2, posted by Racer on June 24, 2004, at 11:03:44
I have those conversations all the time with my ISP.. the "you can't do that" "Oh by I can" "teach me how then" "are you paying me £20 an hour to do this??" conversations *laughing*
When I ended up getting my brother to call the ISP.. I'm on ADSL.. they tell him "sir, the software doesn't work that way, how it works is".. and my brother replied.. "I *know* how it works, I was the designer and programmer of it worldwide" hehehehehehe!!
Oh, I loved my old database.. I just love relational databases.. the way it all fits together.. my old database had over 4000 seperate tables alone.. and you viewed the data in totally different ways dependent on your login.. I loved running reports from it as no one else understood it like me *grins* And I could blow them away (I understood it so well, as when unable to fix the problems that had been caused by stupid people before me, I just rebuilt the entire thing and rolled it out to, instead of the 40 users it had, 3000 users world wide!)
But I've never used Access *laughing* Can you believe it.. As awful as it sounds, I've never lowered myself to use Access - its nasty!! But its also cheap for them to use cos it comes bundled into Office! But give me a few months and I'll change all of that! *L*
The problem is, the NERDS love geeky terminology.. and its the nerds that write the books..
Do you have the "Dummies guide" series over there.. I know the Dummies Guide to SQL helped me out loads.. so maybe the dummies guide to Access might be OK!
nikki x
Posted by Racer on June 24, 2004, at 12:10:45
In reply to Re: Yeah, well, at least we know the problem... » Racer, posted by NikkiT2 on June 24, 2004, at 11:30:28
I've got SQL for Dummies, but most of our little "tech library" is O'Reilly, because they donated I think it was 50 pounds of books to us a couple of times. Some useful, some not -- I love O'Reilly, partly because they are SOOOOOO generous in their support of non-profits, partly because they really have put out some of the best books, and partly because it's still so funny to me that -- at least at that time -- they donated books to most non-profits and educational facilities by the pound, rather than the subject! That just struck me as so funny.
My beloved spouse drives me crazy -- OK, crazIER -- with his behavior towards our tech books collection. He takes books down, and puts them *somewhere* instead of putting them back where they belong. We might actually have Access for Dummies somewhere, but I'd be hard pressed to find it. LOL (Not that I've got any sort of control issues whatsoever, but I used to be able to find any book on my bookcases in the dark -- I first alphabetized my 'collection' when I was eight years old and had only about 200 books. Now the number is closer to 4000 with the combined collection, and it's only recently that I have managed to get anywhere near getting the books in order on the shelves. (It doesn't help that we have more books than shelves, either. I don't mind the part about having two rows of books on each shelf, nor even the part about having a row of books along the tops of the bookcases, but I do mind having the stacks of books that really have no place to go. My auntie promised to build me a new bookcase, though. I think she and I will 'design' it when she's here next. That will help a lot.)
(Yes, when I move, the first thing I look at in any residence is how much wallspace there is for bookcases.)
OK, Nikki -- now I'm gonna go burn incense and worship at your altar. You're funny as [a place we won't mention for fear of a PBC], but I never knew you were also a Relational Database Goddess. You've blown me away for the week.
Posted by Racer on June 24, 2004, at 13:45:59
In reply to Re: Yeah, well, at least we know the problem... » Racer, posted by NikkiT2 on June 24, 2004, at 11:30:28
You know, I kinda knew the problem I was having "getting it" was based on the guy writing it being so inconsistent with his examples: some were based on the example he made up for the book, others were just random S, T, Sa1, that sort of thing. It really "feels" as if he used the random letters as placeholders until he made up an example, then got lazy and never changed some of them. (This is an old edition of the book, though, so it may have changed.)
Anyway, this is just to report that I finally managed to get a part of what I want working. Please -- don't cheer for me, because it makes me feel as if I have to finish the dang thing now! But I'm quietly pleased to have figured it out.
This particular problem is covered in a portion of the book that uses ONLY the random characters for examples. If he'd actually shown some of his 'real world' example, this would have been completely finished weeks ago, I think, since this is the only area of the program I've ever had trouble with.
Nikki, I'm telling you this because, as a Relational Database Goddess, I attribute this small success to the offerings I presented at your altar.
Posted by NikkiT2 on June 24, 2004, at 14:17:41
In reply to Heheheh » NikkiT2, posted by Racer on June 24, 2004, at 12:10:45
Oooh, a book slut, just like me!!!! *grins* One our "wants" for our new house is a kitchen diner, but also a seperate dining room we can have as a library - or a basement for that would be heaven!!! We live in a pretty small flat (apartment), but we're really really lucky to have 15ft high ceilings.. we have all the alcoves (theres lots as its in a Victorian Townhouse) shelved floor to ceiling for our books!! Also lots of large sweater boxes in my mums attic full of our books.. I even have all my books from my childhood!
But there is NO order to our books at all!! Except the top shelf near the window in the lounge is the entire list of "top 50 must read books" from the Gaurdian newspaper about 7 years ago!
To be able to custom design book cases sounds like true heaven!!! *droools* I love wood too you see!! *l*And re; the O'Reilly books msg.. I *hate* it when authors just appear to use random things as their examples.. I need consistency, and a decent reason for what is used!!!
>"but I never knew you were also a Relational Database Goddess. You've blown me away for the week. "
Just wait till I reveal I am atually Diana Prince ;) (you'll have to google it if you don't know it.. I have to keep some semblance of annonimity!)
Nikki xx
Posted by AuntieMel on June 25, 2004, at 11:37:14
In reply to Yeah, well, at least we know the problem... » NikkiT2, posted by Racer on June 24, 2004, at 11:03:44
When I was a geek in training, I had to take a course in relational databases. I decided I'd rather flip burgers.
To each his own.
Posted by NikkiT2 on June 26, 2004, at 7:12:26
In reply to Relational datbases? Ick, posted by AuntieMel on June 25, 2004, at 11:37:14
*laughing*
I guess each geek has a "thing" that they love! Personally, I detest programming.. I'm bad at learning languages anyway, and learning C (just good ole plain C, none of this ++ malark!) just about put me off all programming languages for life!!!
Where as those gorgeous little relational databases just make SO much sense to me! I love the way the tables interact, and the links between all the different bits of info.. getting it all linked well so that users can search well, all that kind of thing.. I just love!!!
If only my brain worked that well *L*
Nikki x
This is the end of the thread.
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