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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kellyr. on June 10, 2004, at 20:35:08
I wish i could say i'm doing well but I'm not,i been thinking alote about killing myself this week and i can't stop thinking about it. I see my T tomarrow but i can't bring myself to tell him that i'm suicidal, he'll want me in the hospital again, my husband willn't go for that again. so it's best for me to die then upset the family over & over again.
Posted by deirdrehbrt on June 10, 2004, at 21:39:25
In reply to half-full of life (trigger), posted by kellyr. on June 10, 2004, at 20:35:08
Kelly,
I've been learning, and it's taken quite a long time, that it is never in my best interest to keep important things from my T. Sometimes I have things that are very difficult to say, and I write them in my journal. I ALWAYS bring my journal to therapy.
Please talk to your T tomorrow. Just having the thoughts doesn't mean you'll be hospitalized. Maybe your T can give you ways to deal with these thoughts. Maybe there is an outpatient option.
Do you really think your husband would wish to deny treatment that you REALLY need? Maybe he needs to meet with your docs, or one of them, to learn what is really going on with your illness.
Please don't keep this kind of secret. Saying it here is one thing, but we can't offer the kind of help that you need. We understand, we worry, we can tell you what we've done in a situation that may have been similar, but other than that, we are helpless. The best thing you can do for you, and for us, is to be honest with the people who are there to help you.
Please let us know how things go,
Dee.
Posted by shadows721 on June 10, 2004, at 21:41:23
In reply to half-full of life (trigger), posted by kellyr. on June 10, 2004, at 20:35:08
(((((Kellyyr)))))
I feel your depression isn't being adequately treated. You defiantly need to tell the pdoc about this. Carrying this burden around is too much. Many of us have gone in the hospital several times. Depression is an illness that has to be treated.
Killing yourself IS NOT THE ANSWER. It's a dead end. It solves nothing. You must get help for yourself. You are a creation from the creator and you deserve to live.
Posted by Cass on June 10, 2004, at 22:00:21
In reply to half-full of life (trigger), posted by kellyr. on June 10, 2004, at 20:35:08
Hi kelly,
I'm sorry you're depressed.
I agree with Dierdre. Just because you talk to your therapist about suicidal thoughts doesn't necessarily mean he or she will put you in the hospital. Your therapist can treat you more effectively if he/she knows what you're going through. I'm a psychobabble old-timer like you. I remember you from years ago when I used to post a lot. I'm glad you've persevered through depression all this time. When I come back to PB, I'm glad to see your name here. I think of you with fondness. Your life means a lot to people who know you on PB and people outside of PB. We are all connected, and what happens to you matters very much.
Posted by tabitha on June 11, 2004, at 1:35:49
In reply to half-full of life (trigger), posted by kellyr. on June 10, 2004, at 20:35:08
>so it's best for me to die then upset the family over & over again.
that's depression talking-- it isn't true. Tell your T what you're thinking so he can help.
Posted by partlycloudy on June 11, 2004, at 10:22:01
In reply to half-full of life (trigger), posted by kellyr. on June 10, 2004, at 20:35:08
Please please tell your T how you're feeling. Complete honesty is the best way to get help.
Take good care,
pc
Posted by Racer on June 11, 2004, at 10:59:28
In reply to half-full of life (trigger), posted by kellyr. on June 10, 2004, at 20:35:08
Kellyr, you know I feel for you, and have very recently been in a very similar emotional space. Although I had the same fear you do -- being hospitalized again -- I did tell our marriage counselor about it this week. Of course, I'd already said enough to my husband that he'd already told her, so I was really answering her questions about it, but still -- on Wednesday morning, I told a mental health professional that I had decided that death was preferable to continuing life in despair.
I'm not in the hospital.
Not only am I NOT in the hospital, I actually feel BETTER because of the discussion that followed my disclosure. My husband told me about his telephone conversation with her about it, and that helped some. She told him that she didn't think he needed to take me to the emergency room, because in the past, I had managed to rally enough to stay safe, and that TELLING someone that I was planning suicide methods was a sign that I was trying to keep myself safe. In other words, TELLING someone was a sign that I DIDN'T need to be in the hospital. NOT telling anyone, when it was pretty obvious anyway -- and don't forget, it's probably not something you're hiding all that well -- is more of a sign that you should be kept safe at any cost. That's one reason to tell your therapist how you're feeling.
The discussion in our marriage session after I disclosed my state, though, really helped me. First of all, our counselor -- who is wonderful -- asked a number of good questions about how I really felt. Do I really want to die? No, I really don't want to die. I just can't stand the pain I'm experiencing, and i can't see any reason to hope that I'll get any relief within the next six months. (Insurance issues, pre-existing condition exclusions will be lifted in December or January. I'm stuck with Dr EyeCandy until then.) She used that as a starting point to explore realistic options with us. She's even going to do something to try to get me some better treatment from Dr EyeCandy, by trying to talk to him about coordinating my care with her, so that there aren't so many cracks for me to fall through. And even though I don't think it's going to do any good -- as in, I don't think he'll condescend to speak with her at all -- it feels so much safer to know that she'll extend herself to help me that way.
In other words, instead of "having" to kill myself to escape this pain, and having to hide that decision to avoid the nightmare of hospitalization, telling produced real, verifiable benefits: when I told, I was rewarded for telling. I was reassured that telling wouldn't land me in the hospital. I got practical support, in the form of an effort by the therapist to help get adequate support from the pdoc. And while I can only really feel this as a stay of execution, rather than having the sentence overturned, I got that stay of execution. I can live a little longer, while we go through another appeals process.
Kellyr, you know I know what it's like to be without enough hope to hang a life on, don't you? Hell, I just wrote about it the other day, and answered you over on 2000 about the two sides of rereading my previous despair. I won't try to tell you that there's hope, because I don't actually believe it myself, no matter how hard I try. On the other hand, I know that any method of suicide is likely to be ugly and painful. After all I've been suffering already, I want my last few minutes to be as comfortable as possible, so that's a disincentive right there. I don't want to add to my suffering, even if it's only for a little while before I no longer have to experience it ever again. That may not be much, but it's kept me alive this week. Maybe holding on to that will help you?
And telling your therapist how despondant you are, and that you didn't want to disclose it because you were afraid of being hospitalized, and allowing him to discuss it with you might actually improve things for you. Your therapist might actually listen to your objections to hospitalization, for instance, which might allow an alternative to open up, or might only improve the therapeutic relationship -- which is still an improvement in the net tolerability of your life. I do encourage you to talk about it, and to talk about your fears of hospitalization.
And I agree with whoever said that it would probably help if your husband spoke to one of your mental health providers. It sounds as if he's kinda oblivious to your state, and that a little more understanding on his part would help you a lot. (My husband is a wonderful man, and he didn't get this at all -- despite warnings from a psychiatrist and our old marriage counselor -- until I got my hands on all the meds he'd locked up on their advice and used them to try to kill myself. He hadn't believed that locking up the meds was necessary, he thought they were being silly, that I didn't need to be in the hospital, etc. Guess what? He knows better now, and he's trying so hard to learn to understand and learn to be supportive. And you know what else? Just the fact that he's making that effort, has helped me a lot. We're getting along with one another better, it's helping me do more to improve our relationship, it helps me try to do basic things like laundry -- it has improved my life, even when his efforts miss the mark, the effort still gets an A+.) It sounds as if your husband really doesn't understand what's happening to you, and even if he's resistant, he'd probably be relieved to talk to someone who could help him understand. Imagine how frightening it is to someone who cares about us to see what's happening and not understand? (My husband has started making suggestions about my weight recently, even though I've tried to explain that it only puts more pressure on me and doesn't help at all. He means well, and he's concerned, and he really CAN NOT understand how I can know there's a problem and not be able to fix it. He gets frustrated, I get frustrated, and the pressure sinks me deeper. And this is the A+ for effort guy. Imagine if his effort only got him a C?) Of course, he has to want to learn, but he also has to be given an opportunity to learn, so that he can make that decision for himself.
Kelly, I don't know if any of this helped at all. I hope it did, because you don't deserve to feel this bad this long. (I'm the only one who ever deserves this much misery, 'K?) If it didn't help, I'm sorry, but I hope it encourages you to speak up with your T. (And look at that word: Encourage. To give hope or confidence to. To endow with courage. To infuse with courage. Think of this as my effort to give you an IV infusion of courage to speak up. I'm lending you some courage from my limited supply, in the hopes that later on, when I need some, you'll offer it to me despite your own insufficiency. You have to be here to do that. And I want you here.)
Kelly, hang on to me. Ben Franklin said, "We must all hang together, else we shall certainly hang separately." Here's a hand, grab my wrist, we won't fall if we all hold on.
Posted by B2chica on June 11, 2004, at 12:04:48
In reply to When I told our marriage counselor... » kellyr., posted by Racer on June 11, 2004, at 10:59:28
>because you don't deserve to feel this bad this long. (I'm the only one who ever deserves this much misery, 'K?)
If you deserve that misery, then i deserve all the shame, guilt, and feelings of disgust and hatred toward myself.
right now i do feel that way, but after reading your words i firmly know that you do NOT 'deserve' to feel bad. and if i believe that then i must not 'deserve' the horrible feelings i have toward myself.
a glimmer of hope.
> Kelly, hang on to me. Ben Franklin said, "We must all hang together, else we shall certainly hang separately." Here's a hand, grab my wrist, we won't fall if we all hold on.i love the quote, so true. hope i can grab on to someones wrists, i'd be glad to have someone hang on to my other.
B2c.
Posted by B2chica on June 11, 2004, at 12:15:04
In reply to half-full of life (trigger), posted by kellyr. on June 10, 2004, at 20:35:08
((((kellyr))))
i think i heard this from someone here...can't remember but it's SO true.
"Suicide is a permanant solution to a temporary problem"You (no one) should live feeling these things. Have you tried a medication adjustment? this might help? and i just had my first hospital experience three months ago. I had had nightmares about that happening since i was a teenager, the reality was NOTHING like my fears. And the truth is, the way i've been feeling lately...i truly don't think it was the last time. I think there will be another time, but at least now i know that you go there for help. to focus on you emotionally and medically. kellyr, shout out, call for help and to hell with anyones "opinions" of what is or isn't best for you. Please call out for help whether it be to your T, pdoc, GP, the hospital or even some 1-800 number. Don't keep your feelings inside, they'll only grow.
I care about you kellyr.
and your writings on the wboard help me through many feelings i have.
don't stop writing.Lots of Love, with one more hug (((((((((kellyr)))))))))))
B2c.
Posted by kellyr. on June 11, 2004, at 20:37:14
In reply to half-full of life (trigger), posted by kellyr. on June 10, 2004, at 20:35:08
Thank you all your posts where very helpful.
Racer,your post made me think alote about things.
to answer some things, my husband is in T for him self, I geuss i drove him nuts. She told him that she counldn't ever see someone like me, cause i well most likely wind-up died(from suicide).And she proparing him for my death. The reason i scare her is because she had someone kill themself when she first started being a T.
I saw my T today but i couldn't tell him cause i couldn't get a word in, but i have his home # if things get bad.My T talks alote, but since i don't it help to lesson to him, sometimes it makes me mad that i can't get a word in, what can i do about it?
I don't think my husband believes me when i talk about suicide, the gun is in the closet, the pills are in the cabinet. So how can i be safe whan my own husband doesn't know how i really feel.sorry
Posted by Racer on June 11, 2004, at 21:58:57
In reply to Re: half-full of life (trigger), posted by kellyr. on June 11, 2004, at 20:37:14
Last year, when I tried to kill myself, I used anti-depressants. Our (now former -- she moved away) marriage counselor had instructed my husband that he must lock up all possible methods from me: pills, needles, insulin, all of it, and make sure I couldn't get my hands on any of them. The psychiatrist who had seen me for meds when we moved down here had instructed my husband to have me hospitalized, no matter what I might want. He also told my husband to MAKE SURE the doctors at the emergency room admitted me, despite anything I might say. Guess what? My husband did not believe that it was a serious as they were trying to tell him. He listened to me say that I didn't want to be hospitalized. And that was with SUPPORTIVE mental health care providers.
Here's the thing: if you don't talk in your sessions, and your therapist DOES talk through your sessions so that you don't even get a chance to talk, that might not be the most therapeutic method for you, you know? That worries me, because I do think that a good therapist can make such a difference for [really, for anyone], and -- I'm not going to say it, because you know if I'm on the right track or not here.
But the real problem I see, something that I suspect is truly and literally killing you, is the therapist your husband is seeing! If I hadn't just had my fabulous round of total idiots with psychotherapy licenses I would hardly believe such things can happen! If she is telling him that you are going to die by suicide, what sort of messages is she sending? First off, she's telling him to start telling you indirectly that you're only temporary right now, that suicide is inevitable, etc. For crying out loud! Not only that, though, she's also telling him not to bother doing anything to help keep you safe, because it won't matter. What a lousy, lousy situation for you!
And you wanna know one more little thing? Right now, aside from being quite angry that professionals can be so willfully blind to the damage they may inadvertantly cause, I don't care how hard it is on your husband, I don't care if your kids might be confused by having a depressed Mommy, I only care that you're hurting so much and that so much could be done to help you and isn't. That is truly upsetting.
I'll also tell you a little about my Mommy. She has a problem with depression, too, although not to the extent that I do. It was worse when I was a kid, and you can read almost any book on ways to screw up a child and find me in it, OK? And most of the reason for a lot of those experiences was my Mommy being depressed. You know what, though? Ask me if I ever blame her? Ask me if I would have been better off in any way at all if she had left me? Ask me if I love her very much? Ask me when the last time I spoke with her was? (About 20 minutes ago -- to plan taking her shopping on Monday.) Ask me what I feel about my childhood experiences with her for a mother? You wanna know the real answer to that last one? BLESSED! My depressed mother, who never believes any of this when I try to tell her, not only created such profound magic in my life, she also taught me most of the traits that I'm most proud of now, the things that have kept me alive for [never mind how many] years now. Growing up with my Mommy taught me some bad things -- that there's nowhere I can ever go for help, that I can't trust anyone who claims to want to help me, that I have to be very hard on myself because I'm weak and lazy, all sorts of bad things that she never meant to teach me -- but she also taught me so much of the antidote: Therapy Can Help -- yeah, I still believe that, even after the Three Stooges routine I've just been through; Hard Work Will Improve Your Life -- well, gotta define the terms here, but if you apply it to therapy instead of my usual set of self-criticism targets, then yes; Look For Solutions -- guess what? That one is what I am most proud of. At almost any moment, no matter how far down I am, if someone comes to me with a problem within my scope, I can Look For Solutions. (That had a lot to do with my state earlier this week: bad med reaction left me without that ability. Once it started coming back, I started Looking For Solutions again and feeling a bit better.) The point is, My Depressed Mommy comes out way on the Plus side on any cost/benefit analysis I can come up with. Your kids' depressed mommy does too, no matter what you think right now. How sure am I about that? Tell you what, how old are your kids now? I will bet you the sum of $2500 that if we ask them at the age of 30 whether or not they would have been better off had you died this year -- or any other year -- they will say, "Of course not! Things may have been bad at times, but I always needed my Mommy to be there!"
Of course, to collect that bet if you're right, you still have to be here.
Posted by Noa on June 12, 2004, at 6:23:23
In reply to Whoa! That is a load » kellyr., posted by Racer on June 11, 2004, at 21:58:57
I agree with Racer that you may need a different therapist, one you can really talk to!!
And I truly do not understand why your husband's therapist would take such a pessimistic point of view. I can see a point in asking your husband about how he would feel or cope if you did die, but saying that she thinks you would probably kill yourself????!! That's wrong.
Posted by Poet on June 12, 2004, at 15:02:37
In reply to Re: half-full of life (trigger), posted by kellyr. on June 11, 2004, at 20:37:14
I don't know how you got there, but I know where you're at, and it's a dark, lonely place. I told my T I was suicidal on the phone and I think that was easier than if I had been staring at my feet in her office. It might be easier for you on the phone, too.
After the phone call, in our next session, she had me sign a no harm agreement. She called my husband, which at the time made me furious, but now I think it got him to realize that I was serious.
Your husband's T should lose her license for her unprofessional behavior. I'm sending her a slap across the face through cyber space.
Try to stay safe and strong. Post when you feel up to it.
We care about you.
Poet
Posted by kellyr. on June 12, 2004, at 17:01:30
In reply to Whoa! That is a load » kellyr., posted by Racer on June 11, 2004, at 21:58:57
my husbands T isn't to bad she did help me a couple of yrs ago when my dr. was on vacation, my husband had something bad happen to him and i was a mess w/ a gun, she called the cops on me toremove the weapons so i don't kill myself. so i can hate her for saying that I'll be died soon but she might be right?
btw i feel a little better today
Posted by Cass on June 12, 2004, at 17:23:25
In reply to Re: half-full of life (trigger), posted by kellyr. on June 11, 2004, at 20:37:14
kelly,
Perhaps your husband's T has been considerate in the past, but that doesn't mean she's a good therapist. I find it shocking that she's predicting that you'll kill yourself. I think she should be helping your husband find ways to help and support you. She shouldn't be so pessimistic. Can you talk to your husband about finding another T?
Posted by kellyr. on June 12, 2004, at 19:45:56
In reply to Re: half-full of life (trigger) » kellyr., posted by Cass on June 12, 2004, at 17:23:25
> kelly,
>
> Perhaps your husband's T has been considerate in the past, but that doesn't mean she's a good therapist. I find it shocking that she's predicting that you'll kill yourself. I think she should be helping your husband find ways to help and support you. She shouldn't be so pessimistic. Can you talk to your husband about finding another T?
>I tried to tell him to get a new T but he willn't do it.
This is the end of the thread.
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