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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by EmmyS on February 22, 2004, at 11:45:47
Satyagraha is a term coined by Mahatma Gandhi to describe organized efforts to achieve change. I believe he needed a way to differentiate his methods from the use of passive resistance as a method to achieve political change.
The quote below deals purely with personal change. Someone gave it to me years ago at a time in my life when it was exactly what I needed to hear. It was what set off a chain of events which changed my entire life. I don't know who wrote it, but it still helps me greatly:
"Satyagraha is a willingness to take advantage of what life has to offer. It is the ability to bring joy back into life by consciously appreciating what you have. It is gratitude for the love of those closest to you as well as opening up with warmth to new people who enter your life. It is the wisdom that all of life is a mixture of suffering and joy."Emmy
Posted by Karen_kay on February 22, 2004, at 12:37:18
In reply to Satyagraha, posted by EmmyS on February 22, 2004, at 11:45:47
That is a great message, and for the most part I believe in my heart that I honestly abide by the message given.
But, I still just don't understand (call me naive, it wouldn't be the first time) why people have to suffer.
I had a conversation with a person last night and I was touched. I told him what I wanted to do with my life, which is to create documentaries about normal people, so we can learn form each other. And know that everyone has "a story" and lessons we can learn from their experiences. This person told me that my goal was beautiful, and that so many people I attend classes with want to just make money. I want to teach others and change this world.
I really think in my heart that I can help make a difference, that I can do something on a small scale to help this world. I don't want my existence here to be purely and solely about me, learning for myself, gaining for myself. I want to help people. I want to see change. I want something to happen. And not for fame or money, but for the purpose of making this world a better place.
I just wish there was a way for people ot learn without suffering. I wish that the people on this board didn't hurt or weren't hurt by others. I wish everyone was happy, and continued to be happy.
Emmy, I thank you for your insights and the information you posted. I looked up some of the things on the net. And I feel so much better knowing that even though I don't subscribe to a particular religion or denomination of Christianity, ect. I'm not wrong. I'm not wondering around with my heads in the clouds. And I feel so much better knowing that I'm doing some good, even on a small scale. I always thank the grocery checkout person, I chat with people in evelators, I flirt with telemarketers and never am rude. I'm making a difference, we all are, even if it's one day at a time and with a very small step.
I just guess I'm stuck after that. I want BIG change to occur and I want it soon. I don't understand how we can't all work together on a small scale to make it happen. Jsut think of the changes we could make if we say, had a "Change the World Day." If, for one day only, we were always pleasant, and planted trees, and tipped 35%, and had reuinions with our family, even if we're estranged, and politicians passed bills int he interest of the people, rather than the small percentage of "rich folks."
OH, we have the power to change things, we just don't realize it. And that makes me so sad I cry. Honestlu, I cry. I can't cry about the "bad things" that happened to me. In the large scale, that really doesn't matter. I cry because we are all so great and have the power to create the change we desire, yet we don't know it. AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND...
I have to stop here and get a tissue....
Posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 13:15:10
In reply to Re: Satyagraha, posted by Karen_kay on February 22, 2004, at 12:37:18
>
> I really think in my heart that I can help make a difference, that I can do something on a small scale to help this world. I don't want my existence here to be purely and solely about me, learning for myself, gaining for myself. I want to help people. I want to see change. I want something to happen. And not for fame or money, but for the purpose of making this world a better place.And from what I've seen of you, you do this. :) You do extend yourself to make a difference in people's lives.
At the risk of being sent to the Faith board, I've always liked the idea that we were placed here on earth to each do our part to help perfect the world.
It may be a stretch goal, as my husband would say, but it's still worthwhile to act as though it is achievable.
Posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 13:15:38
In reply to Re: Satyagraha, posted by Karen_kay on February 22, 2004, at 12:37:18
Posted by Karen_kay on February 22, 2004, at 13:27:25
In reply to Re: Satyagraha, posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 13:15:10
Dinah, you are too kind, as always :) I hope I'm doing my part. That's my constant struggle. That I'm not doing enough. That I'm too self-involved. That I'm too money hungry.
But, I just realized that change doesn't have to occur on a large scale to still make a difference. I'm doing what I'm capable of, even though I still should be doing more. I jsut fear becoming involved in organizations, as they tend to also be self-involved or sometimes too radical. But, I don't need to be involved in an organization to make change happen. I'm going at it alone, and making progress. And that feels so wonderful to finally "*REALIZE*" that I am doing something everyday to make this world a better place, even if it is only through smiles or laughter.
Wow!!! I feel like I just woke up! I can finally see my goal in front of me. WOWSA!!!
<I've always liked the idea that we were placed here on earth to each do our part to help perfect the world.
* Me too! That's why I am not striving to become affiliated with certain religious organizations. I like to watch mass, and listen to teachings, but as a bistander. So I can take in the people around me and learn customs. I don't find "believing" for me to be nearly as important as learning new lessons in life. Just because I don't believe something, doesn't make it wrong to still be curious as to how others react to hearing the "news" and doing rituals. I'm fascinated with it. Only because I LOVE the fact that people have faith in something! That's truly wonderful!Please don't redirect Bob!!! That's all I'll say about the matter and I really want this to stay on social as I feel I can get more responses and input here... Thanks... You're a good guy Bob, have I told you that lately? Thank you again for this board.
Posted by Karen_kay on February 22, 2004, at 13:53:08
In reply to Re: Satyagraha, posted by Karen_kay on February 22, 2004, at 13:27:25
Posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 15:09:11
In reply to Darn it Dinah, I'm following your lead. For Dinah (nm), posted by Karen_kay on February 22, 2004, at 13:53:08
But I suppose having the box checked as a default would have just as many perils. Maybe even more to my OCD soul. I'd be constantly in fear that what was meant as a general comment was directed at someone I didn't intend to direct it to.
Posted by shar on February 23, 2004, at 0:37:21
In reply to Satyagraha, posted by EmmyS on February 22, 2004, at 11:45:47
Gandhi and Satyagraha
http://www.pbs.org/weta/forcemorepowerful/india/satyagraha.html
For Gandhi, who saw all life as arising from a unity of being, there was no division between spiritual and practical activity, and he tried to live that way. One spiritual principle that had practical value for him was that of ahimsa or (loosely translated) "nonviolence". If no individual or group could claim absolute knowledge of the truth, no one should use violence to compel others to act against their different but also sincere understanding of it. Ahimsa had deep roots within Buddhist, and Hindu thinking, but Gandhi also found vigorous expressions of the same precept in Christian thought, especially in the Sermon on the Mount and in the writings of Leo Tolstoy. He read Tolstoy's book, The Kingdom of God Is Within You, in 1894 and found himself "overwhelmed" by the Russian's argument against violence. [1]Ahimsa had clear implications for political conflict. Violence used against oppression, Gandhi believed, was not only wrong, it was a mistake. It could never really end injustice, because it inflamed the prejudice and fear that fed oppression. For Gandhi, unjust means would never produce a just outcome. "The means may be likened to a seed, the end to a tree," he wrote in 1909, "and there is just the same inviolable connection between the means and the end as there is between the seed and the tree. . . We reap exactly as we sow." [2]
Yet Gandhi had to find methods of political action that would also be effectual. In South Africa his early actions as an Indian leader had been nonviolent, but speeches, petitions, letters, and meetings with officials had barely dented racist attitudes and laws. What he sought, and found, was a way to compel whites to see the truth that Indians would have to be treated as equals.
At first he called it "passive resistance" (a term he disavowed in later years). The technique was simple: Declare opposition to an unjust law (such as restrictions on free movement), break the law (by crossing a border illegally), and suffer the consequences (arrest, physical abuse, prison). Resisters' calm and dignified suffering, Gandhi believed, would open the eyes of oppressors and weaken the hostility behind repression; rather than adversaries being bullied to capitulate, they would be obliged to see what was right, and that would make them change their minds and actions. Gandhi named this concept of action "satyagraha" (combining the Hindu words for "truth" and "holding firmly.") [3]
But satyagraha soon took on a larger dimension, one that was less a function of its spiritual provenance than its feasibility. Gandhi recognized that there were limits to the exemplary value of personal sacrifice: even the most committed resisters could absorb only so much suffering, and the pride and prejudices typical of entrenched regimes could not be dissolved quickly. If satyagraha was to become a practical political tool, Gandhi realized, it had to bring pressure to bear on its opponents. "I do not believe in making appeals," he wrote, "when there is no force behind them, whether moral or material." [4]
The potential of satyagraha to change an opponent's position, Gandhi believed, came from the dependence of rulers on the cooperation of those who had the choice to obey or resist. While he continued to argue that satyagraha could reveal the truth to opponents and win them over, he often spoke of it in military terms and planned actions that were intended not so much to convert adversaries but to jeopardize their interests if they did not yield. In this way he made satyagraha a realistic alternative for those more interested in what could produce change than in what conscience could justify. [5]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------1 Brown, Gandhi: Prisoner of Hope, pp. 78-89, 84; Dalton, Mahatma Gandhi, pp. 10-11; Bhikhu Parekh, Colonialism, Tradition, and Reform: An Analysis of Gandhi's Political Discourse (New Delhi: Sage, 1989), p. 156.
2 Dalton, Mahatma Gandhi, p. 9.
3 Brown, Gandhi: Prisoner of Hope, pp. 55-57; Dalton, Mahatma Gandhi, pp. 9, 14-16; Bhikhu Parekh, Gandhi's Political Philosophy (Basingstoke: Macmillan, 1989), pp. 55-57.
4 Parekh, Gandhi's Political Philosophy, p. 153.
5 Ibid., pp. 153-158.
...........on an interesting note, these ideas are related to Yoga, probably because of the Hindu roots. For further info (yoga-wise), one can probably Google "Patanjali" or "patanjali sutras" or "eight limbs of yoga" to get more info.Shar
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