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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JJC on October 2, 2003, at 14:09:27
After 11 years of apparently happy marriage, my husband stopped talking to me 2 months ago - I think because of a disagreement related to money. A week ago he stopped eating, or watching TV: when he comes back from work he pretends to sleep until the next morning. When I get any response from him it is anger: he now refuses to drink the coffee I make him (I've only made him about 35000 in our relationship so far) because I made it. I am hurt, terrified, confused, angry. We were about to start expensive building operations which I would manage. When I told him today that we are scheduled to start in a week's time (after 1 year of planning our perfect place), he told me to stop it and sell the property. After running the admin/finance side of our business for 8 years and all our own finance, he says I am not capable of anything. (I know I am very capable.) He won't tell me what has caused this. Until 2 months ago I honestly believed we were happy and in love. I think he is depressed (he says I don't know what I'm talking about), and I don't know what to do next. I am seeing a therapist next week to help me cope, but I don't know if I can hold out until then. I love him and I want this marriage to work. What do I do? Please help me. I am desperately afraid and very hurt.
Posted by justyourlaugh on October 2, 2003, at 15:24:20
In reply to Please help me understand my husband, posted by JJC on October 2, 2003, at 14:09:27
jj,,
i understand how hurt you must feel:(
i dont want to upset you more but it sounds like he is very depressed,,it can last a long time,,even years..
help yourself understand him.
be his "rock" for awhile , even if he rather not have you.
concentrate on what you can do from yourside of the relationship,,you cant change him..only he can..however you can get the materials needed to educate him on how to start "thinking differently"
i cant believe he doesnt love you ..
be strong jj.
take care of you..
j
Posted by JJC on October 2, 2003, at 15:50:28
In reply to Re: Please help me understand my husband » JJC, posted by justyourlaugh on October 2, 2003, at 15:24:20
> jj,,
> i understand how hurt you must feel:(
> i dont want to upset you more but it sounds like he is very depressed,,it can last a long time,,even years..
> help yourself understand him.
> be his "rock" for awhile , even if he rather not have you.
> concentrate on what you can do from yourside of the relationship,,you cant change him..only he can..however you can get the materials needed to educate him on how to start "thinking differently"
> i cant believe he doesnt love you ..
> be strong jj.
> take care of you..
> jThank you for responding. I have been so desperate
for someone to talk to that I have checked my
mail every 30 seconds since I posted my first
note. At the moment I am crying so much that I am
struggling to type. I am so scared. Once, in 2000,
he also went "quiet" for about 6 weeks, but it
was not as bad as this. He has even changed
passwords so that I can't get access his computer
(after 8 years of sharing information that is
truly scary.)Last night I found a reference to a good book
(Depression Fallout: The Impact of Depression on
Couples) and ordered it, but it won't be in the
country (South Africa) for another 3 weeks. I want
to talk to my mother - she is a wonderful woman
of 71- but this will be so painful for her. Right
now I feel so alone and so, so scared.How do I help him see what is going on? How can a
man who is so intelligent and who I really believe
loved me so much, do this?
Posted by justyourlaugh on October 2, 2003, at 16:34:02
In reply to Please help me understand my husband, posted by JJC on October 2, 2003, at 15:50:28
oh jj,
first thing "depression" is an illness.
he is not doing this to you or himself..
depression is doing this to him..
it is such a horrible dark hole. when you are in it ,it appears there is no way out..life around you changes,,things are so distorted..
there are alot of great books out there..true,
i could not read more than a sentence when i was in the hole...my mind was jumpy and i couldnt concentrate on anything..other than emptiness,,and sad sad sad .
support him with kind words even if you dont feel like being kind to him...
is he self medicating?
i would ask your mom about this forsure.
she is very wise and may surprise you about how she had delt with mental issues...
after all it is said there is more than 10% of us out there with mental illness...where are they all?...chances are you will deal with it again,,
there is help out there..
tell me how you are doing ....this 30 seconds,hee hee
j
Posted by fallsfall on October 2, 2003, at 16:36:44
In reply to Please help me understand my husband, posted by JJC on October 2, 2003, at 14:09:27
This sounds so difficult for you. I think you are doing the right things - seeing a therapist for yourself is a really good move.
Perhaps you can spend some time researching Depression, there is quite a lot of information online. There are online "tests" which, if he won't fill out, you could try to fill out for him to see if it is likely that he is depressed. Or you can find a list of the DSM-IV symptoms of depression and see if he fits that. I don't have favorite sites, but there are lots of them. If you have trouble finding information, let me know and I'll point you to some.
So he is still going to work? Do you have any idea how that is going? Do you know anyone he works with who could let you know? It would help if you knew that his life was changed only when he is home, or if it different all the time. You say that he has stopped eating. I'm assuming that you mean he's not eating dinner with you. Is he also not eating at all? Is he losing weight, or is he just trying to be anti-social?
Does he have a best friend? Talking to his best friend might help to make things clearer for you.
If you think he does have depression, maybe you could leave a VERY SHORT note for him (if he is depressed, he won't read a long one). Tell him you love him, that you are worried, and maybe include a list of symptoms. Suggest that you could make an appointment with his regular doctor (might be less scary than a new THERAPIST, and they would want to rule out physical illnesses, too). Tell him that you love him no matter what.
When I figured out that I was depressed I was terrified - terrified of what it would mean to my life, terrified of what other people would think. So, be gentle with him. He needs to decide that he needs help.
Best of luck. Let us know how it goes.
Posted by justyourlaugh on October 2, 2003, at 18:09:48
In reply to Re: Please help me understand my husband » JJC, posted by fallsfall on October 2, 2003, at 16:36:44
jj?
are you okay?
i hope you are feeling better,sometimes a good cry helps to release some of the pressure..
i agree with fall,,many physical things can keep us down..thyroid,blood pressure, big list...
dont get too wrapped up about the "lables" and "dx'", even some of the best pdocs out there rather not lump patients into groups..some are mainly concerened with quality of life,not the catagories they fall into...
think of it as buying a car,some sales people want you to buy the most expensive one in the lot,,others want you to have the one that will make you happy...i am rambling here...
i shouldnt be giving advice...
just ignore me..
i am drinking again:(
jyl
Posted by kara lynne on October 2, 2003, at 18:43:27
In reply to Please help me understand my husband, posted by JJC on October 2, 2003, at 14:09:27
Hi JJL,
Sorry to hear that you are going through such a terribly difficult time right now. How awful that must be to be living under the same roof with someone who is supposed to love you, and he won't even talk to you.While I agree with the idea of being gentle with him if he is experiencing depression, I don't think it is right that you should have to be the dumping ground for his anger. If he is doing things like telling you you are not capable, and not drinking coffee because you made it, he's acting out in destructive ways that will harm both of you. I'm glad you're seeing a counselor who will be able to advise you and give you some direction. If your husband refuses to do anything to make things better for himself or the relationship it is not fair for you to have to live with his punishing silence.
You say he will not tell you why he is angry, so I'm assuming you asked him directly? It does sound like something triggered this episode; it would be nice if he would give you something to work with.
I have to quit writing mid-post but I just wanted to get this out for now, and let you know you're in my thoughts,
Kara
Posted by kara lynne on October 2, 2003, at 18:51:31
In reply to Re: Please help me understand my husband, posted by kara lynne on October 2, 2003, at 18:43:27
Posted by stjames on October 2, 2003, at 19:49:25
In reply to Please help me understand my husband, posted by JJC on October 2, 2003, at 14:09:27
It might help to think of depression as someone who has really bad vision without glasses & has now lost their glasses. Everything now looks different. Nothing feels, looks, or smells the same. The change
is dramatic. Thinking and reasoning are very changed while depressed.Your partner has all the classic signs of depression. The hard part is there is nothing you
can do or say that will change this. He is not going to get better till he wants to seek help himself.
Posted by yabba on October 2, 2003, at 21:06:51
In reply to Re: Please help me understand my husband, posted by stjames on October 2, 2003, at 19:49:25
> It might help to think of depression as someone who has really bad vision without glasses & has now lost their glasses. Everything now looks different. Nothing feels, looks, or smells the same. The change
> is dramatic. Thinking and reasoning are very changed while depressed.
>
> Your partner has all the classic signs of depression. The hard part is there is nothing you
> can do or say that will change this. He is not going to get better till he wants to seek help himself.That sounds right.. I'm just now coming out of a depression after a year and a half or so and when I think back to some of the stuff I thought and did during that time it seems like I was living in a different world. I saw demons where there were normal people (My life is a lot less stressful now and of course I have my dogs too which were probobly big in changing my perspective). What caused the depression was a girl that I had become overly infatuated with who was actually offering me what I wanted but I was too paranoid to see that. I read her signs totally wrong and so I reacted to them totally wrong. So this caused me to go into depression and I started to hate her even though she had done nothing to deserve it and I've felt really stupid about the situation looking back on it.
Anyway, it sounds like you inadvertantly (possibly/probobly of no fault of your own) caused some of his deep rooted fears to flare up and now he's gone into a depressed state and isn't thinking straight about the situation. I'll give a TENTATIVE guess here; It sounds like he didn't have a hand in planning the house/finances and maybe he'd like to have more of a hand in those things. He may feel like a hapless bill payer. It seems like he's trying to take some control over things by changing passwords etc. If this is true, maybe you should talk to him about spending money on something he wants and see how he reacts to that.
Posted by jinglebts on October 3, 2003, at 0:05:27
In reply to Please help me understand my husband, posted by JJC on October 2, 2003, at 14:09:27
i'm very late in this discussion, but it sounds as if he's much more then depressed (i've been depressed myself, and my husband has ADD + depression) ... he sounds as tho' he's paranoid as well, and i hope your therapist was able to help you to deal with him ...
would you please reply ... i'm worried about you ...
jb
Posted by jinglebts on October 3, 2003, at 0:19:56
In reply to Re: Please help me understand my husband » JJC, posted by jinglebts on October 3, 2003, at 0:05:27
my mistake, it's not late in the game (thought 10 was the day -- DUH) ... but really, it sounds like much more than depression ...
jb
Posted by octopusprime on October 3, 2003, at 2:43:39
In reply to Please help me understand my husband, posted by JJC on October 2, 2003, at 14:09:27
JJC - that stony silence is the most difficult to live with. it must be very trying.
do you have somewhere you can go for a weekend or a week? i know you are very concerned about your husband, but the other posters are right, he has to help himself. and in the meantime you suffer the stifling loneliness of being in a house with someone that was once so near and is now so far away.
a change of scenery might help you relax. especially if you are with supportive friends and family to talk to. i'm glad you're seeing a professional to talk this over.
it's so hard to watch someone you love destroy himself. the terrible thing about love is that you have to let him do it.
take care of yourself, jjc. keep looking out for your financial, mental, physical, and spiritual best interests. take some time out away to think, regroup, recover from the pain he is causing you. see if you can create change.
good luck, i'll be thinking of you.
Posted by JJC on October 3, 2003, at 6:55:27
In reply to Re: Please help me understand my husband, posted by justyourlaugh on October 2, 2003, at 16:34:02
Thank you all so much for your support - it has
really helped.
Very late last night he eventually started talking.
It started out as a "this is the end of the road
for us" conversation, with no possibility of any
alternative discussion. But by about 1:30am he had
started to consider that maybe there could be a
future still, and today he is almost positive about us.
There is a lot of work ahead, but now I understand
the main issues. And I am feeling a lot happier:
still a bit afraid, and still going to see the
therapist for a good number of sessions. Perhaps
in time he will see the value of therapy as well.
He has many unresolved issues from his (orphaned) childhood.
Once again, thank you so much for the encouragement.
I would not have had the strength
to walk back into the bedroom otherwise, and we
might never have got the conversation going again.
I will let you know what happens.
Posted by Susan J on October 3, 2003, at 10:24:54
In reply to Please help me understand my husband, posted by JJC on October 3, 2003, at 6:55:27
Dear JJC,
I just saw these posts, and I'm so sorry you are going through so much pain. My brother's wife has kind of flipped out on him, after 9 years of being together, 5 of them married. My brother didn't have a clue anything was wrong and now K is talking about leaving him.
I'm so glad that your husband is starting to talk to you. My sis-in-law keeps saying she'll see a therapist but never makes the appointment. Of course, that can be a sign of depression too, but she is so very very angry right now.
I *do* think that you need to protect yourself in case your husband doesn't recover quickly enough. Whoever said it's not your husband doing this to you, it's the depression doing it to him, is absolutely right! But it can cripple him temporarily and you need to prepare for that. Hopefully it will never happen, like I tell my brother.
I advised him to see an attorney to figure out his options and protect his assets (a son). But don't think of it as divorce preparations, think of it as financial planning. So, please, take a look at your business and stuff and see what your options are. Doesn't mean you have to *do* anything, just plan for every contingency. You do need to take care of yourself, too. And I think it's great that you will see a therapist too. I want my brother to do that, because it helps you cope with this devastating turn of events, it will help you see what your husband is going through more clearly, and the therapist can give you advice on how to relate to your husband in a way that he won't see as threatening.
Depression is tough, but humans are tougher. I promise. Good luck with everything, and I'm thinking of you.
Posted by jinglebts on October 3, 2003, at 14:19:27
In reply to My Brother's Going Thru the Same Thing!!!! » JJC, posted by Susan J on October 3, 2003, at 10:24:54
this is a very good idea -- i call it "getting your ducks in a row", and it's just calmly, rationally, seeing what your future MIGHT be, and being prepared ... for my first divorce, 30 years ago now, i had a bad lawyer and did some things that ultimately screwed both me AND my daughter ... now, i don't think it'll come to this, but i MUST do some financial planning should i decide to leave my second husband (he's ADD,and so far not coping well at all well) -- i must know what i'm up against, and the heat of battle is not the time to do it ...
i feel for your husband, the orphan, very much, but you must care for yourself too ...
jb
Posted by jay on October 4, 2003, at 5:46:46
In reply to Please help me understand my husband, posted by JJC on October 3, 2003, at 6:55:27
Hi JJC...glad you are feeling better.
Sadly, men in our society have been deeply socialized to "keep it all in", in particular in emotional times. (Me being a guy too..well I kinda know..heh.)I *don't* believe this is a "manly" thing, but something our society has passed on with the idea men are like "rocks", not to show feelings, etc. Actually getting them to open and talk is a great thing, and try to schedule it if you can numerous times through the week. Inside, you may likely find a shy, sensitive little boy that resides in most men, but again our socialization teaches us and reinforces "machoism". Plus, being orphaned (my father was one...lots of personal experience) there may be many issues there, especially around insecurity that could lead to depression. It's gonna take a lot of working, and talking to develop that open bond between you two to it's potential. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but as a former counsellor in both addictions and mental health, I have seen so many men who have such depth and compassion, yet have a hard time bringing it up, processing it, and expressing it. Especially when someone is very depressed, and also very anxiety ridden. Men tend to express their anxiety through worries about money, job...practical things. It then becomes a vicious circle, because the more they worry, the more they clam up. I've seen this on such a repetitive basis it often feels like I am reading the same chapter from a book again and again.
So, my best advice, keep talking..keep him talking. Set out formal time during the week for it, and don't let your schedule shift. You will be absolutely amazed at the power of this, I can almost guarantee it. Then you will see other things around your relationship change. (Geezz..I am doing the Dr. Phil thing..lol!)
Baby steps...sometimes there will be two steps back with one forward. Just...whatever you can do...keep talking!
Best wishes,
Jay
Posted by femlite on October 5, 2003, at 0:07:00
In reply to Please help me understand my husband, posted by JJC on October 2, 2003, at 14:09:27
JJC,
Youve been very brave and made the first important step of many.
I have been depressed all my married life. So this is advice from from the other side of the breakfast table, dont take it personally.
I know this may sound selfish when your the spouse whose feeling rejected, but my husband feeling rejected makes me feel further from him. Ill try to explain. I guess the fact that he feels that way makes me feel like he really doesnt get it, or understand. (and if youve never been depressed how could you, right?)
Knowing he cant understand makes the gap between us feel like a chasm.
There's been lots of good advise here. Help yourself first.
And remember, it isnt you. The more you can feel that the more space he may feel to open up.
my best to you
Posted by jinglebts on October 5, 2003, at 3:20:10
In reply to Re: Please help me understand my husband » JJC, posted by femlite on October 5, 2003, at 0:07:00
this is exactly how i feel sometimes, femlite (amongst a whole load of other crap too, and i'm sure my husband feels most of that crap from the other side), but still ... when my husband feels rejected, i think, "just what the hell has to happen for him to understand and ignore my "alledged" rejection of him (because i'm not really rejecting him) and give me a hug and some support?"
and femlite, you say you've been depressed since you got married: could it be because you're married? i know the happiest time i spent was between husbands, and i'm beginning to think that, much as i love my husband, i'd be happier w/o him ...
makes sense to me, but maybe no one else can understand it, except me and thee ...
jb
Posted by femlite on October 5, 2003, at 9:52:23
In reply to Re: Please help me understand my husband » femlite, posted by jinglebts on October 5, 2003, at 3:20:10
lol (i guess i phrased that wrong) no,ive always been this way. I just didnt have to be responsible to anyone else about it before I married.
Thats not to say my erratic behavior hasnt landed me in one hot pot or another most my life.
But being married and depressed is more of a pressure cooker sometimes.
I wouldnt trade him for the world. After 15 years of a roller coaster with me, hes still here and he still loves me. I am blessed. Its been hell at times, ive wanted to shoot him, leave him, strangle him, and he me, but we are commited. (or should be ;>)
Ive finally figured out what to say and he finally understands, "I need some space" is our code phrase. He knows what that means now. Its not you, Im just feeling hateful, anxious, depressed, angry, apathetic, fill in the blank. I go find him when its over. I use to get upset that he couldnt help me through it. He listens but he jsut doesnt relate. But you know what? HE LISTENS.
sometimes thats enough. When its not i jsut do my usual dysfuntional things, scream, shop, veg,eat, he knows thats just my way of coping and hes in it with me for the long haul.
If you have a stable partner, hang onto him or her. Like Dr. Phil says, its a myth we both have to be sane for it to work. Ones always more balanced than the other.
best regards
Posted by Harvester of Eyes on October 5, 2003, at 21:33:44
In reply to Please help me understand my husband, posted by JJC on October 2, 2003, at 15:50:28
I haven't seen anyone step back from the depression issue and start with his apparent anger.
Many men go silent when angry, and eventually it starts leaking out in a dribble of condemnation and despair. A helpful partner will try not to be rattled by the yuck coming out and keep coaxing out more of the pent-up emotion until peace is achieved.
When there is a big backlog of anger, it is a long process that repeats periodically. Sometimes couples learn to confront it pre-emptively by setting aside time to discuss and experience emotions.
Many of us make the mistake of regarding anger and sadness as negative emotions, because they feel bad. Really, they are just the sensations we feel as our minds process various events. They feel scary, but we can learn to recognize them as valuable friends, tools to help us regulate the pressure inside our minds.
His anger apparently goes way, way back. He probably views himself as an angry man. Altering this view and experiencing life as a feeling man will benefit both of you.
I regret if there is a lecturing tone to my post; my own emotional conviction about the issue may be seeping in.
Best wishes to you both.
Posted by jinglebts on October 5, 2003, at 23:06:19
In reply to Re: Please help me understand my husband » femlite, posted by jinglebts on October 5, 2003, at 3:20:10
femlite,
oh, i'm SO all over the place with him, love him, think he hates me sometimes, but i will tell you this -- and i really digress here, except perhaps i don't: i'm finding out who my friends really are, not because of my husband, but because i've been ill and have no patience for coddling them any more -- or maybe i'm just feeling my age ...
you are blessed, and perhaps i am too ...
Posted by femlite on October 6, 2003, at 11:01:03
In reply to Re: Please help me understand my husband, posted by jinglebts on October 5, 2003, at 23:06:19
I dont know if it is part of my illness or friends are not true, (it is hard to maintain itimacy is this stress overloaded culture we stew in).
But my hubby seems to be able to bear the intensity of my personality when no one else can.
he is my truest earthly friend.
learning to stand up for myself with regard to how my friends treat me is a learning process.
learning to be real as the velvet bunny said seems a key. can i resist the temptation to posture? Thank you for asking and thank you for sharing yourself
> femlite,
>
> oh, i'm SO all over the place with him, love him, think he hates me sometimes, but i will tell you this -- and i really digress here, except perhaps i don't: i'm finding out who my friends really are, not because of my husband, but because i've been ill and have no patience for coddling them any more -- or maybe i'm just feeling my age ...
>
> you are blessed, and perhaps i am too ...
Posted by ant on October 9, 2003, at 1:48:44
In reply to Please help me understand my husband, posted by JJC on October 3, 2003, at 6:55:27
Hi JJC,Guy's are difficult to understand in times like these. I myself have been married to a wonderful woman for 7 years and due to relationship issues are going through what is clasified as depression/anxiety. I am taking EFFEXOR for this.
Where I was arguing every day with my wife for no good reason and becoming irrational to the point of her breaking down to tears, now we are well on our way to recovery. At this stage only I have had councelling as I feel that most of our problems are fuelled by me,(even though the main reason is an underlying relationship issue).
Anyway, I was the one who felt that I needed to change, to give some breathing space to then takle our issues, I could not have done this by myself. The medication has saved my relationship, it has given that stability in our life to relax and to put aside our issues for a short period before we start to go to councilling togeter. Even though of love my wife dearly, in the heat of the moment, I was horrible to her, only to always appologise once the argument had settled down, but the hurt had already been done. I am not saying your husband needs medication,just that I did, and still do. Try and work together with him, but don't be submissive, be yourself, but try and understand that sometimes people can't help what they say or do (but if this is the case, they do need help).
Be strong, and go to coucilling, don't be too proud to say you have a problem, this will be the main hurdle for your husband, don't put it across as he has the problem but that you both as a couple need to work through things.
Try and get sleep to keep your energy up never loose hope.
Know that with coucilling and perhaps medication in the short term, you could have your relationship back on track, sometimes its very quick.
Anyway, I'll leave on that note, all the bestAnt
> Thank you all so much for your support - it has
> really helped.
> Very late last night he eventually started talking.
> It started out as a "this is the end of the road
> for us" conversation, with no possibility of any
> alternative discussion. But by about 1:30am he had
> started to consider that maybe there could be a
> future still, and today he is almost positive about us.
> There is a lot of work ahead, but now I understand
> the main issues. And I am feeling a lot happier:
> still a bit afraid, and still going to see the
> therapist for a good number of sessions. Perhaps
> in time he will see the value of therapy as well.
> He has many unresolved issues from his (orphaned) childhood.
> Once again, thank you so much for the encouragement.
> I would not have had the strength
> to walk back into the bedroom otherwise, and we
> might never have got the conversation going again.
> I will let you know what happens.
Posted by john26 on October 9, 2003, at 3:30:30
In reply to Please help me understand my husband, posted by JJC on October 2, 2003, at 14:09:27
i don't know if this might help but my sister-in-law is cutting herself off from her family too. we think that it was a of dealing with her unwanted emotions when she was a child. her parents had no patience for it. he may be dealing with it the same way he was raised to.
a way to introduce him to the idea of something wrong is to have his doctor check his thyroid level. my wife was depressed, didn't know what was happening until our doctor tested it. hers was very low. it also gave her hope because it was easier to accept it since it was a physical thing they could measure.
ben
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