![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Divadawnotto69 on September 16, 2003, at 22:58:43
In reply to Re: Recently started taking Effexor xr, posted by 07shel27 on September 16, 2003, at 21:04:13
My child who is 8 was just prescribed Effexor for her ADHD. She is on Dexadrine and is very sad and crys alot so the Doctor gave her the 37.5 dose of Effexor. Has anyone heard of this before.
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 17, 2003, at 10:38:29
In reply to My Child was prescribed Effexor for ADHD, posted by Divadawnotto69 on September 16, 2003, at 22:58:43
Effexor at age 8? oh my. I think he prescribed the Effexor for the crying/depression resulting from ADHD, not as a cure for ADHD.
My son has ADHD. He only recently switched from Ritilin to Strattera. It does get better! :)
KDi in Texas
> My child who is 8 was just prescribed Effexor for her ADHD. She is on Dexadrine and is very sad and crys alot so the Doctor gave her the 37.5 dose of Effexor. Has anyone heard of this before.
>
Posted by Ted on September 17, 2003, at 11:26:59
In reply to My Child was prescribed Effexor for ADHD, posted by Divadawnotto69 on September 16, 2003, at 22:58:43
My 7-1/2 year old son is about to start medication for ADHD. His pdoc is putting him on Provigil. She ranks the meds in the following order, at least for my son:
1. Provigil
2. Strattera
3. Stimulants (Ritalin, Dexedrine, Adderall, Concerta)
4. Wellbutrin SR
5. CylertOne of my coworkers said his son was on ritalin and it made him cry a lot, so the doctor switched him to desipramine (a tricyclic AD) and that supposedly worked wonderfully.
IMO, I would not start with effexor, but try one of the other choices first. To me, though, it does not seem unreasonable as a med choice.
Ted
Posted by Divadawnotto69 on September 17, 2003, at 21:59:42
In reply to Re: My Child was prescribed Effexor for ADHD, posted by Ted on September 17, 2003, at 11:26:59
Thanks to Ted and Kim D for your responce. My pediatrician said that my Daughter is only showing the depression and crying etc. because it is an underlying problem that the ADHD has been hiding since she is now on the Dexadrine and it is helping the ADHD symptons the depression and anxiety is showing and that is another problem that has to be delt with seperately .
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 18, 2003, at 0:33:09
In reply to My Child was prescribed Effexor for ADHD, posted by Divadawnotto69 on September 16, 2003, at 22:58:43
> My child who is 8 was just prescribed Effexor for her ADHD...
Sorry if it's confusing here, but Psycho-Babble is the board for medication issues. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030917/msgs/261234.html
Bob
Posted by Rawudi on September 20, 2003, at 12:13:41
In reply to Re: My Child was prescribed Effexor for ADHD » Ted, posted by Divadawnotto69 on September 17, 2003, at 21:59:42
> Thanks to Ted and Kim D for your responce. My pediatrician said that my Daughter is only showing the depression and crying etc. because it is an underlying problem that the ADHD has been hiding since she is now on the Dexadrine and it is helping the ADHD symptons the depression and anxiety is showing and that is another problem that has to be delt with seperately .
---------
>>I may be hoping too much here, but I'm not with any psychiatrist or on any medications or drugs and don't ever propose to ever take any!!!Firstly, the fact of the matter is, ADHD is a made up disorder and doesn't exist. Some psychiatrist played a cruel and very S I C K joke on everyone, when he brought this baby into existence. You see he can't confront individuals being able to move freely and enjoy their abilities in a social environment. So, who best to target than little children. They can't fight back on the matter and then if they do anyway, they have another disorder called oppositional disorder!
The fact of the matter is your child or anyone else for that matter does not have unusual human symptons nor has it been of detriment to man down through the millennia of his whole track history and nor will it be presently or in the immediate future. There has been no research on the matter, there is no proof to the disorder; other than a showing of hands by psychiatrists stating that the condition is a valid mental illness with a great show of authority, if only said pretentiously, it is still non the less fraudulently stated.
Hence, prescribing anything other than natural physical exercise, diets, alongside of a full medical examination to ensure they don't have something basic out with their body - such as allergies, organ dysfunctions, etc., would be pandering to the private and commercial needs of the drug manufacturers and psychiatrists back pockets.
As your child is currently on these "drugs", my advise would not be to jump straight off of them. Far from it, as you would probably cause some damage. But rather, once they have reduced their current consumption down to zero, refrain from taking any further psycho-tropic drugs completely. Search out a doctor that does locate the actual cause of any symptons this "disorder" may appear to be manifesting. It will be there to be found and once found obtain natural remedies that handle the source of the problem.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 20, 2003, at 20:01:32
In reply to Re: My Child was prescribed Effexor for ADHD, posted by Rawudi on September 20, 2003, at 12:13:41
> Firstly, the fact of the matter is, ADHD is a made up disorder and doesn't exist.
You may not think people should be given the diagnosis, but please don't exaggerate or overgeneralize:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Rawudi on September 21, 2003, at 7:45:49
In reply to Re: please be civil » Rawudi, posted by Dr. Bob on September 20, 2003, at 20:01:32
> > Firstly, the fact of the matter is, ADHD is a made up disorder and doesn't exist.
>
> You may not think people should be given the diagnosis, but please don't exaggerate or overgeneralize:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
Dear Bob,I have no idea why you would consider the statement an "overgeneralization" or "exaggeration" for that matter. I have done enough homework on the subject to fully back-up and validate what I've messaged; and it is further validated by the fact the researchers are respected members both within and without the very circles of psychiatry/psychology and standard medicine.
I put it to you that giving birth to a falsehood thus breeds more falsehoods. A bit like a person holding on to a lie despite knowing full well it is one and almost being found out about it. They will inevitibly bury themselves for the sake of the lie.
I view this false labelling as being the same, thus false medicines will inevitibly cause harm.
One could not be so blind as to say that natural tendences of an individual are a means for diagnosing mental illnesses. Psychiatry has even failed to define or even research into what would be defined as a "normal individual" compared with an "abnormal individual". They simply say they can't do it! If this be the case then, how would you tell the difference when diagnosing?
Someone is pulling the wool over someones eyes. It's exactly the same as the fable = "The King Who Had No Cloths!" Everyone should know this fable well and being what we are, we simply say -"Well yes, this was a very silly king and we wouldn't be so easily duped outselves!"
Just because someone [psychiatry] said it was that way doesn't make it that way in reality.
My only other closing message is that they [psychiatrists] are "H O P I N G" that someone will come up with an answer to their claims to validate their fraud of labelling innocents with ADHD or other similar felonious labels.
Posted by zeugma on September 21, 2003, at 12:51:51
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Rawudi on September 21, 2003, at 7:45:49
If you say that ADHD is a "made-up disorder," or "doesn't exist," you are going to have to have a hard time convincing anyone here of that, simply because so many of us suffer from these conditions and have been severely debilitated as a result. As for "natural human tendencies," humans seem to have a natural tendency to develop cancer, should people therefore not be treated for this and die prematurely? (If you think that cancer is a "real" and serious illness but ADHD is not, consider that severe ADHD can cause depression, job loss, educational failure, and even suicide. I have never understood why people can accept the existence of physical illness but insist that people with mental illnesses should just "pull themselves up by their bootstraps." In my opinion this also shows an insuffificient recognition of the importance of the mind itself. I can live without a limb, but can I live without a properly functioning brain? Just something to think about....)
Posted by femlite on September 21, 2003, at 15:00:45
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Rawudi on September 21, 2003, at 7:45:49
>>...labelling innocents with ADHD or other similar labels...
I too have concerns about medicating children.
Through my experiences, and observations I have inferred the following..
..many children eat too much surgar and junk food
...many children watch too much tv, including video games (too which many are "addicted"
..." " dont get enough exercise
..." " are prevented from making real contributions to society and their families welfare, and there by lack a sense of purpose
..." " are exposed through games, toys, media and peers to overtly distubing and overly stimulating images.
These and many other enviornmental factors make mental health a challange for children ( and their parents)
Combine all the above mentioned problems with public school emphasis on excelerated learning and kids who are just not mature enough to handle that much pressure, and you end up with more drugged kids. (to make the grade )
My point, I guess, is that its important for parents to evaluate all these enviormental factors before making the very serious decision to medicate a child.
Some kids really need medical help. Most others, IMHO, need alot more understanding and rooooom to grow.
just some thoughts
best of luck and many prayers to those who are trying to raise healthy children.
Posted by Rawudi on September 21, 2003, at 19:24:02
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by zeugma on September 21, 2003, at 12:51:51
> If you say that ADHD is a "made-up disorder," or "doesn't exist," you are going to have to have a hard time convincing anyone here of that, simply because so many of us suffer from these conditions and have been severely debilitated as a result. As for "natural human tendencies," humans seem to have a natural tendency to develop cancer, should people therefore not be treated for this and die prematurely? (If you think that cancer is a "real" and serious illness but ADHD is not, consider that severe ADHD can cause depression, job loss, educational failure, and even suicide. I have never understood why people can accept the existence of physical illness but insist that people with mental illnesses should just "pull themselves up by their bootstraps." In my opinion this also shows an insuffificient recognition of the importance of the mind itself. I can live without a limb, but can I live without a properly functioning brain? Just something to think about....)
-----------
Thank you!
History will point out that common medicine has has a long track of failures and is even today full of such with new treatments they have to develope. But one can observe that their progress is just that - PROGRESS. From witch craft/medicine man to bloodletting to an exact science of locating, isolating and terminating most aliments.
On the other hand - psychiatry has not progressed an inch, other than adjoining those sciences that have progressed and using those ties to further its own ends. They still use lobomoties, electroshock, restraints such as incarceration, drugging and labelling. If they had anything slightly aligning to a "cure," or be able to terminatedly handle what they lable - something totally foreign to their thinking - than I would be more open to their claims, but they aren't, will not and can't ever approach the idea in fear they will be found for what they are.
Yes, we definitely need a solution to the many problems that man has. Yes, man's ability to identify and handle many of the common "illnesses" has been left wanting by psychiatry - but there are answers and know of many workable solutions!
- Dr Sydney Walker says: "The moral is that very little is undiagnosable, but much is not being diagnosed." Case in point - "Robert Hoffman reported that in 1982, 215 patients admitted to a medical-psychiatric hospital unit, 41% were initially misdiagnosed; in addition, he found that 63% of patients labeled as having an "untreatable dementia" had treatable disorders. A 1985 study of 131 randomly selected patients at the Manhattan Psychiatric Center found that "approximately 75% of the patients re-evaluated may have been wrongly diagnosed when admitted to the center" and that "frequent misdiagnosis of schizophrenia caused severe harm to many patients who were inappropriately given powerful drugs, such as neuroleptics, that mask symptoms...."
My diagnosis here is simple then. Avoid at all costs seeing a psychiatrist/psychologist. Get full medical examinations for a full diagnostic evaluation as to body problems, before if possible, any other medication is taken which could mask the actual problem. A lot of case scenarios show this to be true is most cases where misdiagnosis of symptoms occur.
So, cancer is something being looked into. ADHD is a misnomer and being "treated" by fictitious "help". I thus am more than agreeable to actual help and seeing that then preteniousness.
Posted by Rawudi on September 21, 2003, at 19:29:18
In reply to ADD and innocents, posted by femlite on September 21, 2003, at 15:00:45
> >>...labelling innocents with ADHD or other similar labels...
>
> I too have concerns about medicating children.
>
> Through my experiences, and observations I have inferred the following..
>
> ..many children eat too much surgar and junk food
>
> ...many children watch too much tv, including video games (too which many are "addicted"
>
> ..." " dont get enough exercise
>
> ..." " are prevented from making real contributions to society and their families welfare, and there by lack a sense of purpose
>
> ..." " are exposed through games, toys, media and peers to overtly distubing and overly stimulating images.
>
> These and many other enviornmental factors make mental health a challange for children ( and their parents)
>
> Combine all the above mentioned problems with public school emphasis on excelerated learning and kids who are just not mature enough to handle that much pressure, and you end up with more drugged kids. (to make the grade )
>
> My point, I guess, is that its important for parents to evaluate all these enviormental factors before making the very serious decision to medicate a child.
>
> Some kids really need medical help. Most others, IMHO, need alot more understanding and rooooom to grow.
>
> just some thoughts
>
> best of luck and many prayers to those who are trying to raise healthy children.
>
----------Thank you. You are on the money here, so to speak. We need more people looking into the other factors which make up an individual rather than a rote label followed by drugging.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 21, 2003, at 20:11:38
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Rawudi on September 21, 2003, at 7:45:49
> > > Firstly, the fact of the matter is, ADHD is a made up disorder and doesn't exist.
> >
> > You may not think people should be given the diagnosis, but please don't exaggerate or overgeneralize
>
> I have no idea why you would consider the statement an "overgeneralization" or "exaggeration" for that matter.Because that's hardly a "fact". So now I'm going to block you from posting for a week:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforce
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.
Posted by femlite on September 22, 2003, at 10:52:11
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Rawudi on September 21, 2003, at 19:24:02
Rawudi,
I know you are blocked right now. But when you can post again, maybe you can answer a question that is on my mind.
Have you had personal experiences with doctors that were tramatic?I have, most of my life. I always said I have "bad doctor karma".
Making light of and
intellectualizing my problems
have been my primary means of coping with them.If you care to write me back, please keep your response on a personal level. You dont have to reply, but if you do, I dont want you to get blocked again.
Here are a few of my tramatic memories.
The first one; as a four year old I had to have my tonsils removed before I could go to school, (it was a law in our state at that time, but lets not talk about the absurdness of such theories okay?)
I dont remember going to the hospital. The only thing I remember is kicking, screaming and biting as 4 interns tried to strap me down to a gurny. I was so afraid.I dont think my mother was the kind that would explain or try to prepare you for events that might seem frightening to a child.
My most recent experience was with a pain managment "specialist".
I was in a great deal of pain when I went to see him. I felt very stressed out. To make it brief, I was in tears after 5 minutes in his office. He didnt even look at me, just kept ratteling of what I should do and "how I was wasting time, needed to make up my mind" and walked out.Ive never gone back and maybe my response is irrational, but some fears run very deep and dont respond to demands to "be rational"
Not every one on this board is sold on the idea that medicine is the answer to all problems.
But as a wise man once told me, "You have to allow people to make their own mistakes".And as you said, labeling people,(and may I add, doctors) degrades them. Thereby preventing a supportive exchange of ideas.
Some do find help, and through meds,the ability to move forward. Some who've tried a medicinal approach for years with no succes, through disallusionment, find a strength not relized, and walk away from that crutch.
We'er all just finding our way. Thoughtful and considerate critism is needed and provokes us all to think and challange previaling ideas & theories.
I hope to hear from you.
with warm regards
PS..I really am seeking to share with someone who can relate to my trauma with docs. Most posts seem to come from people who feel at ease with the medical establishment and wouldnt be able to relate to my dilema.
Posted by pixygoth on September 26, 2003, at 9:51:50
In reply to Re: please be civil » Rawudi, posted by femlite on September 22, 2003, at 10:52:11
Oh dear... femlite, keep your chin up (so to speak...)
Lots of doctors are ignorant, aren't they? I had a CBT nurse (well... I went once) who also told me that crying was a waste of time, hers and mine, and that I should go away and make another appointment. (I don't want to degrade anyone, but my pdoc (now) cheered me up once by admitting that CBT could be taught to a monkey... I feel the same about general medical practice, sometimes... the medic students at uni with me..!)
Hugs hugs hugs to you.
Some doctors on the other hand are sympathetic and many have their own mental health problems, so they know what they're talking about.
Good luck to you with finding one of them.
You will eventually get to one who knows that the crying will stop if they give you a chance, and then you can talk.
Good luck again,
S xx
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 30, 2003, at 4:38:54
In reply to Re: blocked for week » Rawudi, posted by Dr. Bob on September 21, 2003, at 20:11:38
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 30, 2003, at 4:42:24
In reply to Re: please be civil » Rawudi, posted by femlite on September 22, 2003, at 10:52:11
i would like to find the doctor who called me a worthless cause 10 years ago when i was struggling with emotional, mental, and drinking problems.
HA
I'm here today and looking/feeling fabulous. Well, I was before my marriage went belly up.
<sigh>
KDi in Texas
> Rawudi,
>
> I know you are blocked right now. But when you can post again, maybe you can answer a question that is on my mind.
> Have you had personal experiences with doctors that were tramatic?
>
> I have, most of my life. I always said I have "bad doctor karma".
> Making light of and
> intellectualizing my problems
> have been my primary means of coping with them.
>
> If you care to write me back, please keep your response on a personal level. You dont have to reply, but if you do, I dont want you to get blocked again.
>
> Here are a few of my tramatic memories.
> The first one; as a four year old I had to have my tonsils removed before I could go to school, (it was a law in our state at that time, but lets not talk about the absurdness of such theories okay?)
> I dont remember going to the hospital. The only thing I remember is kicking, screaming and biting as 4 interns tried to strap me down to a gurny. I was so afraid.
>
> I dont think my mother was the kind that would explain or try to prepare you for events that might seem frightening to a child.
>
> My most recent experience was with a pain managment "specialist".
> I was in a great deal of pain when I went to see him. I felt very stressed out. To make it brief, I was in tears after 5 minutes in his office. He didnt even look at me, just kept ratteling of what I should do and "how I was wasting time, needed to make up my mind" and walked out.
>
> Ive never gone back and maybe my response is irrational, but some fears run very deep and dont respond to demands to "be rational"
>
> Not every one on this board is sold on the idea that medicine is the answer to all problems.
> But as a wise man once told me, "You have to allow people to make their own mistakes".
>
> And as you said, labeling people,(and may I add, doctors) degrades them. Thereby preventing a supportive exchange of ideas.
>
> Some do find help, and through meds,the ability to move forward. Some who've tried a medicinal approach for years with no succes, through disallusionment, find a strength not relized, and walk away from that crutch.
>
> We'er all just finding our way. Thoughtful and considerate critism is needed and provokes us all to think and challange previaling ideas & theories.
>
> I hope to hear from you.
>
> with warm regards
>
> PS..I really am seeking to share with someone who can relate to my trauma with docs. Most posts seem to come from people who feel at ease with the medical establishment and wouldnt be able to relate to my dilema.
Posted by yabba on October 1, 2003, at 3:54:11
In reply to Re: My Child was prescribed Effexor for ADHD, posted by Rawudi on September 20, 2003, at 12:13:41
> Firstly, the fact of the matter is, ADHD is a made up disorder and doesn't exist. Some psychiatrist played a cruel and very S I C K joke on everyone, when he brought this baby into existence. You see he can't confront individuals being able to move freely and enjoy their abilities in a social environment. So, who best to target than little children. They can't fight back on the matter and then if they do anyway, they have another disorder called oppositional disorder!
>
> The fact of the matter is your child or anyone else for that matter does not have unusual human symptons nor has it been of detriment to man down through the millennia of his whole track history and nor will it be presently or in the immediate future. There has been no research on the matter, there is no proof to the disorder; other than a showing of hands by psychiatrists stating that the condition is a valid mental illness with a great show of authority, if only said pretentiously, it is still non the less fraudulently stated.
>
> Hence, prescribing anything other than natural physical exercise, diets, alongside of a full medical examination to ensure they don't have something basic out with their body - such as allergies, organ dysfunctions, etc., would be pandering to the private and commercial needs of the drug manufacturers and psychiatrists back pockets.
>
> As your child is currently on these "drugs", my advise would not be to jump straight off of them. Far from it, as you would probably cause some damage. But rather, once they have reduced their current consumption down to zero, refrain from taking any further psycho-tropic drugs completely. Search out a doctor that does locate the actual cause of any symptons this "disorder" may appear to be manifesting. It will be there to be found and once found obtain natural remedies that handle the source of the problem.
>
Uhh I'm afraid you're wrong. I discovered a pamphlet on ADD when I was 23 and realized that it fit me perfectly. Explain why thoughts swirl in my head constantly, explain my extreme forgetfullness. I had conversations with a couple of people about forgetfullness who had the same problem as I do and those conversations happened before I had even heard of ADD. Sometimes I'll forget my wallet so I'll go back in my room to get it only to come back out empty handed and then back in again only to come out empty handed once more. The examples like that go on and I have talked to 2 other people about it and they had the exact same problems. I also have a bad time of being anywhere on time. I get caught up in stuff and forget.Before you think, well this guy is just a whiner and he's had an easy life etc., understand that I spent 4 years in the U.S. Marine Corps and the 2 people who I had the conversations about forgetfullness with were also Marines. They also had problems being on time despite the strict reprisals that got handed out for that kind of thing. Don't get me wrong, the Marine Corps made me much more disciplined then before I joined but I still have problems.
I'm actually a pretty disciplined person now. I have notepads all over the place so that I can write down whatever comes to mind before I forget it. Obviously being forgetful is very annoying to me but no matter how hard I try to not be forgetful I just can't seem to shake it. My swirling thoughts also cause me to be very impulsive about speaking out. Unfortunately when I speak out sometimes I say stupid things because I didn't think it through but I deal with that by just not saying anything unless I have to or when I'm around people that it doesn't matter if I do act impulsively.
I have problems with anything that is boring, like writing papers. I can eventually force myself through it but I just have problems sitting still long enough. When I had 24 hour Duty in the MC it was pure hell sitting there in one spot. When I come upon a thought I just have to get up and walk around to move my body, I can't sit still and yet I was forced to sit in basically one spot for 24 hours at a time 6-7 times a month at least. I got through it but all of that Duty still didn't cure me of my problems with sitting still for a long length of time. You'd think I'd learn patience and sitting still wouldn't be a problem anymore. I did learn some patience and I can force myself to sit still better then I could in high school but really, the antsiness is still there. The discipline I learned in the MC has helped me to change my C average in HS english to an A average in college english though, since I actually force myself to do my assignments now.I've been trying my whole life to deal with my forgetfullness and my attention problems and you can't tell me that I haven't tried hard enough or that the diagnosis of ADD doesn't fit me to the bill. I'm a very skeptical person and my endorsement for the existence of ADD doesn't come lightly. I do think that ADD is over diagnosed in America these days (anxiety causes similar symptoms) but it does have it's own unique symptoms that prove it's existence.
Posted by Divadawnotto69 on October 2, 2003, at 21:35:08
In reply to You're wrong about ADD Rawudi, posted by yabba on October 1, 2003, at 3:54:11
Thanks to yabba for helping me to understand what it is like for my daughter who is to young to explain exactly what ADD does to her thinking. I found your post to be very informative and helpful.
Posted by yabba on October 2, 2003, at 21:51:40
In reply to Re: You're wrong about ADD Rawudi, posted by Divadawnotto69 on October 2, 2003, at 21:35:08
> Thanks to yabba for helping me to understand what it is like for my daughter who is to young to explain exactly what ADD does to her thinking. I found your post to be very informative and helpful.
You're very welcome =]. I'm glad that you're taking to steps to cope with it at her young age.
This is the end of the thread.
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