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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fallsfall on July 22, 2003, at 6:31:30
I have an appointment this afternoon with my pdoc. This is fine. I like him, and I'm doing so much better these days. But there are two things that scare me.
His office is right across the hall from my old therapist's. I should be able to time it so that she is in session when I am waiting for him. Last time I tried to do this, however, I ran into her in the hallway because she was running late. My stress level is down so much since I haven't been seeing her. What would I say? "Hi" - good. But if she asks how I am - "I've been doing great since I haven't been in to see you"??? I have daymares that she will be in my pdoc's office when I get there.
Second, my new therapist would love to see me go of all of my meds. This is a scary thought. He does have some good points, and I might be willing to do a little experimenting after my new therapist's TWO WEEK VACATION in August, and after my son joins the ARMY in late August. My new therapist wants to talk to my pdoc (which is fine).
Not sure how to occupy myself for the next 6 1/2 hours...
Posted by lostsailor on July 22, 2003, at 8:54:06
In reply to A little scared, posted by fallsfall on July 22, 2003, at 6:31:30
..Not sure how to occupy myself for the next 6 1/2 hours... ..
you can post like a babblefish
therapists talking to pdocs is good
same people telling you to go of meds
is not 'till the chat with the pdocjust my 2cents
~tony
Posted by fallsfall on July 22, 2003, at 9:33:49
In reply to Re: A little scared, posted by lostsailor on July 22, 2003, at 8:54:06
Thanks, Tony.
I'm checking Babble, and paying bills (what fun!).
I'm pretty scared of going off meds. It took more than a year to find something that would work at all. But I was having therapist-induced stress at the time, so maybe now that that is over I really don't need the meds! Stranger things could happen. Pretty much I'm willing to try what they tell me to do, but I reserve the right to say that it isn't a good idea after I try it.
Posted by Dinah on July 22, 2003, at 10:05:14
In reply to A little scared, posted by fallsfall on July 22, 2003, at 6:31:30
Hi Fallsfalls,
I understand your fear. When I fired the pdoc from Hades, I was worried about the fact that he came to the clinic for consultation at approximately the same time as my appointment. But then I realized he looked waaaay more uncomfortable than I felt, even. After the time he bolted down the stairs instead of riding in the elevator with me, I quit peering around corners for him. Of course, the first time or two I saw him my heart beat a mile a minute and I was really anxious.
Perhaps if you plan for it, you can gain enough distance to see it as a science experiment. Observe your reaction to her for signs of what sort of feelings you may be hiding from yourself, and signs of what you might need to work on with your new therapist.
Speaking of your new therapist, before I did *anything* with my meds, I'd check to see if he is anti-medication in general or if he thought it was no longer necessary in *your* case. If it's the former, I'd be really wary of going off a medication combo that works for me. Have a good long talk with your pdoc first.
How long have you been on medications? Was it for stress related problems of recent origin, or is it for long term anxiety or depression? Are you experiencing any troublesome side effects?
We all go off our meds from time to time, but please be careful and do it for the right reasons, and under a lot of support from your pdoc, if he thinks it's wise.
Now mind you, if your therapist is generally anti-medication because he believes that psych meds just dull the problems or work generally by producing certain psychological states, as Dr. Sobo states, I would tend to agree with that. But it's not necessarily a bad thing. My Klonopin may not do anything to relieve my underlying neuroses, but my physical tendency to anxiety is such that I wouldn't give it up to work on my psychological problems for anything. There is just too much of a physical component.
Just my 2 cents.
And good luck.
Posted by Penny on July 22, 2003, at 10:07:32
In reply to Re: A little scared » lostsailor, posted by fallsfall on July 22, 2003, at 9:33:49
How long have you been stable on your meds??? I think that is a better answer on whether the time to start tapering off might be in the near future. I say that because of my experience with messing with my meds after being stable for a while - something will work, and then I'll stop one or fiddle with something and it will send me into a tailspin.
I think the therapist talking to the pdoc is definitely a good thing, though.
As for avoiding your old therapist - wish I could help you, FF, but I can't. Here's hoping you don't have to deal with all that just yet.
Take care.
P
Posted by fallsfall on July 22, 2003, at 11:32:35
In reply to Re: A little scared » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on July 22, 2003, at 10:05:14
Thanks, Dinah,
I did see my old therapist after I told her I was leaving (but before I left), and you are right, she looked at least as uncomfortable as I felt. My issue is that she never called me after I cancelled all my appointments. I don't want much, but "Good Luck, I hope it goes well for you" would mean an awful lot to me. So, in a sense, I DO want to see her (but only if she's going to say something like that). My appointment is at 2:10. She picks her patients up on the hour (very reliably). So if I don't get there until 2:05 I should miss her. I think postponing seeing her is the right strategy for today.
I like your science experiment idea, though. That might distract me enough to let me survive.
My new therapist put a lot of qualifiers around his med statement. "I don't know what would happen if...", "Sometimes meds can make you tired...", "I had a patient who lowered a dose and felt a lot better...", "I'm certainly not going to tell you to stop taking your meds...". But also "I really don't think that your depression is caused by brain chemicals" (to which I said "If it was it would have gone away after 6 months"). My sense is that he is a minimalist on meds, and I really do take a lot (4 that do something, 4 to counteract side effects, 3 PRN (2 for side effects), plus OmegaBrite).
I've been on meds for 8 1/2 years. Lithium for 8, the others for less than 9 months. In general, I think that they have helped. Recently, though, the stress from my old therapist was so bad that nothing helped. Since I left her (1 month) my stress levels have gone down a LOT. So, it is possible (but maybe not likely) that I don't need them anymore.
I'm such a goody two shoes that I wouldn't stop taking meds unless my pdoc put it in writing. (But I did forget them 3 times last week "Maybe you were trying to show me (therapist) that you still need them...").
I really do like living with less stress.
Thanks for your support!
Posted by fallsfall on July 22, 2003, at 11:37:32
In reply to Re: A little scared » fallsfall, posted by Penny on July 22, 2003, at 10:07:32
I don't know if I would say that I am "stable" yet with my meds. For at least the last 1 1/2 years, my old therapist has caused me so much stress that really nothing has worked. I started new stuff in Jan/Feb and I could tell that it had potential, but the stress was so bad that I wasn't close to feeling "good". Stress levels have been going down for the last month and I am feeling lots better, but still not "good". I know what you mean about the tailspins - if it is all working then leave it alone!
Should be an interesting appointment with my pdoc.
Thanks for your help, Penny
Posted by Tabitha on July 22, 2003, at 15:00:16
In reply to Re: A little scared » Penny, posted by fallsfall on July 22, 2003, at 11:37:32
I'd be afraid to take a therapist's advice on meds. If the pdoc is worth his/her salt, he/she should be the main influence on your decision, not the therapist. The therapist has way less experience and knowledge. If he/she is just basing the decision on the experience with a few patients, well that's just not really a good basis for recommendation.
Can you tell I had bad experiences with a therapist who wanted to do the pdoc's job? My current therp will only go so far as to say, maybe it's time for a med check, if she sees something awry. I like that.
Posted by fallsfall on July 22, 2003, at 16:24:13
In reply to Re: A little scared » fallsfall, posted by Tabitha on July 22, 2003, at 15:00:16
I went to my pdoc appointment. I think that my old therapist wasn't even in the building - her lights weren't on, so I didn't have to see her.
The receptionist was really happy to see me. That made me feel good.
My pdoc was really glad I was feeling better. He did ask about what I thought made the difference, so I did have to go into the details a bit. We did talk about trying to go off the meds. He said that as long as I was feeling better he didn't object. He looked like he kind of agreed with my new therapist that my depression isn't caused by brain chemistry (my thought is that even if that is true, that doesn't mean that it can't be helped by meds). So I proposed that after my therapist has his 2 week vacation, and after my son joins the Army, and after my daughters go back to school that we would try a conservative experiment (try eliminating 1200mg of Lithium over 6 weeks). He and I were thinking of the same pace before he articulated it.
So now I feel really anxious (same thing, but not as bad, as I felt when I saw my old therapist. I don't know if it was talking about her (my new therapist has given me a break on talking about her), or being in the building, or worrying that I might see her. Raspberries and Bordeaux cookies are the cure for now.
My pdoc is very good and really knows his stuff. He will listen to me (or to my therapist), but if he thinks a plan is ill advised he will say so.
My therapist used to be the Director of Psychology at a psychiatric hospital. So he probably does know more than the average therapist about meds. He was really careful to say that he wasn't suggesting that I stop taking my meds, and that he thinks my pdoc is really good. He just wanted the discussion to occur between me and my pdoc - so he had to question things enough so that I would be motivated to talk to my pdoc. Would my therapist have talked to my pdoc about it if I didn't? I'm not sure, I don't know him that well yet.
I filled out the authorization form so they could talk.
Posted by Dinah on July 22, 2003, at 17:28:27
In reply to Re: A little scared, posted by fallsfall on July 22, 2003, at 16:24:13
Sounds as if you have everything well in hand. And it doesn't sound as if your new therapist is anti-med on principle, which is good.
My therapist likes to be in touch with his clients' pdocs. I no longer use the pdoc from Hades he usually deals with. And my current pdoc sees no reason whatsoever to speak to my therapist, although he said he'd do it if I wanted him to. Faced with such a lack of interest, my therapist apparently decided not to pursue it. He does complain (correctly) that I don't tell everything to my pdoc. But my pdoc has a way of nonverbally letting you know what he doesn't want to hear. I warned my therapist that if he did contact my pdoc, he'd be hit by the same wall of concrete if he tried to tell him certain things.
You know, you said you just wanted her to wish you well. I think under those circumstances, I'd want an awful lot more from her. Maybe an acknowledgement of where she went wrong. A recap of all the good that went on before that. But from what you've told us, working with a client's feelings for her is not one of her strong points. And I'd probably never get from her what I wanted. But I'd probably be pretty darned upset and angry about that. When you're ready, it's probably worthwhile to work through whatever complicated feelings you have for her.
It's odd the things we keep locked away even from ourselves. I've spent the last two sessions being pretty much knocked sideways by something from my childhood that I didn't even realized bothered me. It's opened up all sorts of other feelings about events and people in my current life.
Posted by fallsfall on July 23, 2003, at 3:30:12
In reply to Re: A little scared » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on July 22, 2003, at 17:28:27
I know what you mean about the non-verbal signals that say he doesn't want to hear about something. My pdoc does that, too. It usually feels to me like he's hurrying me along, or he has an agenda and isn't interested in mine on that day.
I'm sure that my therapist won't let me get away without talking about my old therapist. Last session I was telling him about an old boss (really a mentor) and he asked if that relationship was similar to my relationship with her. (In some ways yes, in some ways no) So I'm sure we'll go through it in excruciating detail.
When I told her I was leaving, I included a "This is what I learned" summary. And we agreed that we were a good team for a while.
I hope that you can find some peace with your recent therapy revelations. It is amazing to me how significant very old things can be.
This is the end of the thread.
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