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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Penny on June 29, 2003, at 11:04:32
Well, I finished HP V last night!!!! Wow - excellent!!! It's soooo nice to be able to escape into a book. If only I could stay there.
Unfortunately, I woke up this morning, and the letter from my grandmother came to mind first thing, along with how much I dread going to work tomorrow, and now I'm seriously fighting the temptation to go crawl in the bed and stay there for the rest of the day.
Not to mention the fact that my roommate hasn't called me, which means if I don't call her she's going to make my life a living hell when she gets home. (She's housesitting). She will tell me she feels like I don't really care about her, etc. etc. As usual, I am a terrible person, a terrible friend, a terrible employee, a terrible daughter and granddaughter, and the only thing I think I might be even close to good at is being a dog owner, and even that is iffy.
I have a headache (again) and I feel like crying and thanks for letting me vent, even if no one reads this!!!
:-b
P
Posted by Dinah on June 29, 2003, at 11:53:32
In reply to Surviving..., posted by Penny on June 29, 2003, at 11:04:32
(((Penny)))
Keep on surviving for right now. One foot in front of the other. Perhaps it'll take a while for your meds to settle down again.
Posted by yesac on June 29, 2003, at 11:54:37
In reply to Surviving..., posted by Penny on June 29, 2003, at 11:04:32
> Well, I finished HP V last night!!!! Wow - excellent!!! It's soooo nice to be able to escape into a book. If only I could stay there.
I'm very excited to read that, once it arrives - I ordered it online for only $15. I used to love escaping into a book (especially HP because it's so fun), but I no longer seem to be able to read much. I hope it's different with HP. Seriously, I've been working on the same book for about a month now and have only managed 150 pages. This is NOT a hard or deep kind of book. It kills me to not be able to handle reading. It's funny how many people (adults) I see reading it though. They even are selling it in the Health Affairs bookstore, I guess for all those med students and residents.
>
> Not to mention the fact that my roommate hasn't called me, which means if I don't call her she's going to make my life a living hell when she gets home. (She's housesitting). She will tell me she feels like I don't really care about her, etc. etc.She sounds like an intense/demanding roomate. Is this person just a roomate, or is she also a friend?
Posted by whiterabbit on June 29, 2003, at 19:55:37
In reply to Re: Surviving... » Penny, posted by yesac on June 29, 2003, at 11:54:37
That crap is emotional abuse and your roommate needs help. You need to remove yourself from that situation as soon as possible.
-Gracie
Posted by Penny on June 29, 2003, at 20:29:10
In reply to Re: Surviving... » Penny, posted by yesac on June 29, 2003, at 11:54:37
Here's hoping HP V lifts your spirits some! I found it an excellent escape from the real world - thinking about reading it again, or maybe re-reading the whole series. Unfortunately, I have a sociology independent study course I'm doing that requires some attention, as does prepping for the GRE, but those both seem too overwhelming right now.
But don't be too hard on yourself about the book you're struggling through right now. Even if it's not deep reading, it may just be what you don't need to be dealing with at the moment. Some escapism will probably do you good!
> > Not to mention the fact that my roommate hasn't called me, which means if I don't call her she's going to make my life a living hell when she gets home. (She's housesitting). She will tell me she feels like I don't really care about her, etc. etc.
>
> She sounds like an intense/demanding roomate. Is this person just a roomate, or is she also a friend?Actually, she's my best friend. We've been friends for 10 years almost - since freshman year of college. I actually spoke to her tonight, after finally calling her since she hadn't called me, and she has been pretty busy all weekend, but there was an undertone in her voice...she's taken offense at something I've said or done, but she's not telling me.
So, she said something in the conversation about deciding how she's going to handle some things, and it seems to me that every time she says that, it's not a good thing. I've asked her to be honest with me and tell me when she has an issue with me WHEN she has the issue - not weeks or months later - but she has yet to really do that. She holds things in and then drops them on me. She's told me that she sometimes holds things in because she's worried that I can't handle them at the moment, but the not knowing what's going through her head is much worse.
So, I don't know what I'm going to do. Talked to my mom tonight and told her about my grandmother's letter, which she found very odd, and while I was talking to her (in Walmart - again - no less), I was saying something about people not understanding about depression and this woman stops me and says, "I understand. I really do." and we proceeded to have a conversation (while my mom listened from her end) about the hell we've both been through. After I walked away, I told my mom "See what I've been trying to tell you? It's not just me..."
It was all very interesting. On one hand, I'm kinda glad they don't get it, as if they did, it would probably mean they had been through the hell themselves. On the other hand, if they could just accept that what I tell them is the truth and not a figment of my imagination, that would help.
take care.
P
Posted by Penny on June 29, 2003, at 20:34:30
In reply to Re: Surviving..., posted by whiterabbit on June 29, 2003, at 19:55:37
>
> That crap is emotional abuse and your roommate needs help. You need to remove yourself from that situation as soon as possible.
> -GracieAnd yet, I stay...
I guess I feel like all of my friendships seem to fall apart, and this is the only one that has lasted this long, and I'm not sure I can let it go right now. But it is definitely a roller coaster ride.
In addition, I am so financially insecure right now, with credit problems and an income that doesn't cover everything I need - I am afraid that I couldn't find another roommate quickly enough to keep myself from being without a home...
Posted by whiterabbit on June 29, 2003, at 21:52:37
In reply to Re: Surviving... » whiterabbit, posted by Penny on June 29, 2003, at 20:34:30
I understand, really I do. Just don't let her convince you that you're the one with the problem.
There's no good excuse for her not carrying her own emotional baggage - you certainly don't need it. I don't know what her problem is, but she has no right to direct all that anger at you. If you can't remove yourself in a physical sense, you will have to set up emotional boundries to keep yourself from being a target. She's the one who should change, not you...she has to redirect her anger, learn to contain it or get help for herself. Otherwise her treatment of you as her whipping boy will take an emotional toll on you that is not your responsibility to bear.
-Gracie the Crusader
Posted by Penny on June 30, 2003, at 8:06:39
In reply to Re: Surviving..., posted by whiterabbit on June 29, 2003, at 21:52:37
You are very much right. And my therapist and I have been working on my setting boundaries with her. She takes my boundaries as a personal insult and I've tried explaining to her that when I choose to do something because it's the best way for me to take care of myself, it's not a shot at her, it doesn't mean I don't care about her. But I don't think she sees it that way. And I have to let that go. As you said, and as my therapist has also told me, it's her baggage and she has to deal with it, not me.
She started talking again last night about moving. She says she won't move until December when the lease is up, even though her name isn't on the lease, because she doesn't want to leave me hanging. I started to say, "Uh, well, thanks." seeing as how I thought that was an understanding when we moved in together that she wouldn't leave me hanging, since she knows there's no way I can afford the rent for our place on my own.
Whatever. Today I'm just feeling like not taking anyone's s--t.
and you are totally right.
thanks, Gracie.
P
Posted by whiterabbit on June 30, 2003, at 12:04:00
In reply to Re: Surviving..., posted by Penny on June 30, 2003, at 8:06:39
I guess this is a sensitive subject with me - that accounts for my strong reaction. I've been trying to encourage Kaly as well to not let her roommate take such liberties. I can't relate to people like that - why they feel the need to criticize, complain and control others - people they're supposed to care about.I endured this treatment for years. First from my mother, who was needy and greedy and selfish. She made me miserable with her constant demands and appreciated nothing. If I didn't immediately cooperate with each of her wishes, she would throw a fit like a spoiled child and accuse me of being a horrible daughter. Then the guilt trips would start - she would call all of our relatives, complain of my selfishness and neglect, and insist that each of these people call me and chastise my behavior. Usually they did just to shut her up, or they could expect the same treatment directed at them. She manipulated all of us and made everyone miserable.
Supposedly she is different now, I don't know for sure. After tolerating her crap for a number of tormented years, I had to put a stop to it for the sake of my sanity - I just couldn't take any more. I put a Caller ID on the phone and refused to answer when she called. I bought an answering machine to stop the barrage of phone calls and keep the phone from ringing 80 times - she would call and just let it ring and ring. I turned down the answering machine so I couldn't hear her hate-filled messages and erased them without listening.
Since she had a key to the house and was used to letting herself in whenever she pleased, I had the locks changed. She came over a few times, beat on the door and leaned on the bell, but finally she had to give up. By that time I despised her and my mental condition was deteriorating fast. I had done nothing to deserve
such awful treatment and had allowed her to roll right over me, causing much emotional damage. I had no resources to deal with her agressive, demanding personality; I was basically a quiet and gentle person. I had no choice but to shut her out of my life, and although she had forced me into this decision I still felt guilty. No matter - she was killing me. Her threats, her demands, her displeasure, her name-calling, her selfish and manipulative ways were destroying me, like beetles eating away at the heart of a tree.
So, enough.Since then I've learned that it's not necessary to overcome this type of agressive behavior with a loud and bullying nature of your own. You simply do not accept this treatment, not from anyone. You walk away from it - literally if possible, emotionally if not. Of course the other person won't like it but well, tough s***. If they want to be a part of your life, they will learn to treat you with respect. Don't accept anything less.
-Gracie
Posted by yesac on June 30, 2003, at 14:42:27
In reply to Re: Surviving... » yesac, posted by Penny on June 29, 2003, at 20:29:10
> Unfortunately, I have a sociology independent study course I'm doing that requires some attention, as does prepping for the GRE, but those both seem too overwhelming right now.
I just took my GRE a couple of weeks ago. Huge relief to be done with! I was very stressed out about it for several months. Now I'm annoyed though because I should have gotten my official scores last week (including the writing scores) and I didn't. Maybe I'll get them today...
> But don't be too hard on yourself about the book you're struggling through right now. Even if it's not deep reading, it may just be what you don't need to be dealing with at the moment. Some escapism will probably do you good!
The problem is, it isn't just this book. It's like every book I've tried to read in the past 6 months! I just can't get into them. Except I did read a couple David Sedaris books in March.
So about your friend... I know just how you feel. Well, I think. My best friend and I also have a lot of issues. We've really had a lot of ups and downs over the past 5 years. She has been very demanding, too much for me at times, and seems to have too high of expectations that I just can't live up to. There have been times that I thought I was going to lose her because things just didn't seem able to be resolved. But anyway, now things are going pretty well and we're both working on our own issues, which hopefully will improve the relationship. But we don't see each other that much. She lives in NY.
I wanted to ask you if you've ever thought of DBT? I am in it now, and honestly I really hate it. But I am trying to stay with it because I think that it has the potential to really help me.
Posted by kalyb on June 30, 2003, at 15:36:46
In reply to That's the spirit » Penny, posted by whiterabbit on June 30, 2003, at 12:04:00
> I guess this is a sensitive subject with me - that accounts for my strong reaction. I've been trying to encourage Kaly as well to not let her roommate take such liberties. I can't relate to people like that - why they feel the need to criticize, complain and control others - people they're supposed to care about.
t> Since then I've learned that it's not necessary to overcome this type of agressive behavior with a loud and bullying nature of your own. You simply do not accept this treatment, not from anyone. You walk away from it - literally if possible, emotionally if not.
Yes, Gracie - you have been most helpful and encouraging in my situation. Thanks :)
However I am learning that walking away "emotionally" from bullies like this does have its repercussions which are incredibly hard to withstand.
Really manipulative controlling people will try harder to "reach" you and because they like to manipulate, they'll have taken notice of all your sensitive buttons (or deliberately dig until they find more).
Because they are manipulative and devious they also judge you by their own standards, and will imply your deliberate intention in the most innocent of mistakes.
They will also play the martyr to your every little error despite your apologies and offers to make amends (and maybe relay their own version of events to third, fourth or fifth parties, painting you as black as they can).
I am beginning to see the evil little ways of my landlady, and I don't like them one bit. She's really hitting below the belt now she can see me shrugging off the little stuff, in an effort to keep me where she wants me. And it hurts.
kalyb xx
Posted by noa on June 30, 2003, at 19:39:41
In reply to roomate/friend » Penny, posted by yesac on June 30, 2003, at 14:42:27
BTW--congrats on getting thru the GREs.
And I think a David Sedaris book is great medicine!!
Posted by noa on June 30, 2003, at 19:43:37
In reply to Re: That's the spirit » whiterabbit, posted by kalyb on June 30, 2003, at 15:36:46
This discussion of bullies rings true for me, too, as I am dealing with a bully at work.
The only thing I would say is that there are different ways of walking away.
Whatever way we deal with the bullies, it is important to try to hold on to our power. That is very hard, as bullies are good at engaging us in power struggles on their terms.
In my bully situation, it is clear to me that the amygdala kicks in big time. It is "fight or flight" and in our situation, she fights, or shall I say, attacks, and I flee. Sometimes fleeing is the best option I have available to me. Not my ideal but the best for the moment.
But I am learning how to protect my boundaries better. That is key.
Posted by noa on June 30, 2003, at 19:56:27
In reply to Surviving..., posted by Penny on June 29, 2003, at 11:04:32
>As usual, I am a terrible person, a terrible friend, a terrible employee, a terrible daughter and granddaughter, and the only thing I think I might be even close to good at is being a dog owner, and even that is iffy.
Penny, is this what you think the roommate's attitude is or is this what you think and feel? I can't tell from the post.
If it is you saying it about yourself, forgive my stepping over a boundary, as I hardly know you, but somebody's gotta do it---consider yourself metaphorically grabbed by the shoulders and shaken a bit and --really forgive me--told to "stop it". OK, I hope you get my intent here. I have a friend who yells at me to stop it (she doesn't actually grab me and shake me, though) when I get hyper-self-critical, and I guess I am just trying to pass along that spirit.
I hope you see this as supportive--as I said, it is clearly way over the boundaries, and who the heck knows how it comes across in a post!!
But I know that for me, adding insult to injury and loading on the self-criticism makes it all worse.
You sound depressed. Or, to use a cliche--"it sounds like the depression talking". Do you think you are getting what you need to out of your meds, or do you need to tweak them some?
Not that I am of the 100% meds/biology camp--I'm not--I see that what is going on in your life is also a big part. But my own experience was that my meds had to be adequately addressing the depression before I could really deal effectively with the life crap.
If the depression were treated more adequately, I think we'd be 'hearing' a more angry, empowered voice from you--rightfully angry about the crappy attitudes you've encountered from friends and family. But a more empowered, angry voice.
Know what I mean?
Posted by Penny on June 30, 2003, at 22:45:10
In reply to roomate/friend » Penny, posted by yesac on June 30, 2003, at 14:42:27
> I just took my GRE a couple of weeks ago. Huge relief to be done with! I was very stressed out about it for several months. Now I'm annoyed though because I should have gotten my official scores last week (including the writing scores) and I didn't. Maybe I'll get them today...
What course of graduate study are you preparing for, if I might ask? (you don't have to share if you don't want to...)
> The problem is, it isn't just this book. It's like every book I've tried to read in the past 6 months! I just can't get into them. Except I did read a couple David Sedaris books in March.Still - don't be too hard on yourself! It's just not a good time for reading right now... it will all change at some point, doesn't it always?
>
> So about your friend... I know just how you feel. Well, I think. My best friend and I also have a lot of issues. We've really had a lot of ups and downs over the past 5 years. She has been very demanding, too much for me at times, and seems to have too high of expectations that I just can't live up to. There have been times that I thought I was going to lose her because things just didn't seem able to be resolved. But anyway, now things are going pretty well and we're both working on our own issues, which hopefully will improve the relationship. But we don't see each other that much. She lives in NY.I tend to attract a certain kind of person, which truly says something about me, I think. My best friend in middle/high school was very needy and had no self confidence. My best friend in college was also very needy and had lots of self confidence when it came to school but none in the rest of her life. Our friendship ended when she couldn't handle my making new friends after college. My best friend now is also needy, but seems to have a good bit of self confidence, although perhaps not ... I dunno. I'm tired right now and my brain is not working all too well! But, my point is, she has told me I have 'hurt' her periodically throughout our friendship. She can name specific times and situations, none of which were things done with the intention of hurting her. So I'm listening to the therapist here with the "let it go, it's her stuff, not yours" but still struggling. So I told her that she's not the only one who has been hurt in this relationship, and she says, "When have I hurt you?" and I can't name specifics b/c I don't think about things in that way, but I told her that everytime she comes home in a pissy mood and doesn't tell me what's wrong but doesn't talk to me, it makes me wonder what I've done wrong and it hurts me. Because sometimes it's about me, and sometimes it's not. So I told her that she needs to just tell me then and there when I do something to piss her off, not hold it in and wait and then lay it all on me at one time!!!!!
Does that make any sense? I apologize if it doesn't...
>
> I wanted to ask you if you've ever thought of DBT? I am in it now, and honestly I really hate it. But I am trying to stay with it because I think that it has the potential to really help me.Are you in the program at neurosciences? My therapist has mentioned the possibility of DBT to me if things got that bad. I think she was referring to SI or something like that, which I haven't had a problem with as of late. What do you hate about it? How long does it last?
g'nite.
P
Posted by Penny on June 30, 2003, at 22:53:42
In reply to Re: Surviving... » Penny, posted by noa on June 30, 2003, at 19:56:27
> >As usual, I am a terrible person, a terrible friend, a terrible employee, a terrible daughter and granddaughter, and the only thing I think I might be even close to good at is being a dog owner, and even that is iffy.
>
> Penny, is this what you think the roommate's attitude is or is this what you think and feel? I can't tell from the post.I think mostly what I think and feel, based on other's reactions to me, expectations of me that I can never live up to, etc. I guess I was being a bit sarcastic, but not completely. :-(
>
> If it is you saying it about yourself, forgive my stepping over a boundary, as I hardly know you, but somebody's gotta do it---consider yourself metaphorically grabbed by the shoulders and shaken a bit and --really forgive me--told to "stop it".You're forgiven! Thanks, I needed that.
> I hope you see this as supportive--I do, thanks.
> You sound depressed. Or, to use a cliche--"it sounds like the depression talking". Do you think you are getting what you need to out of your meds, or do you need to tweak them some?
>
> Not that I am of the 100% meds/biology camp--I'm not--I see that what is going on in your life is also a big part. But my own experience was that my meds had to be adequately addressing the depression before I could really deal effectively with the life crap.
>
> If the depression were treated more adequately, I think we'd be 'hearing' a more angry, empowered voice from you--rightfully angry about the crappy attitudes you've encountered from friends and family. But a more empowered, angry voice.
>
> Know what I mean?Yeah, I am in the med-tweaking stage right now. Definitely a combo of life stuff and med stuff that hasn't balanced out yet.
But I've been working on angry and empowered for a long time. I have a problem with empowerment, can't seem to grasp it for myself. I hate to use the term 'victim' as I don't like to think of myself in that manner, but I just feel totally out of control of my own life.
Okay, anyway, maybe I can more sense of all of this in the morning.
thanks, though, noa.
Penny
Posted by yesac on July 1, 2003, at 14:52:33
In reply to Re: roomate/friend » yesac, posted by noa on June 30, 2003, at 19:39:41
> BTW--congrats on getting thru the GREs.
Thank you very much. I got my scores yesterday, and I'm happy with them, so I guess that's that!
>
> And I think a David Sedaris book is great medicine!!Yeah, he's good. Nothing like an author who shares my cynicism and negative view of basically everything!
Posted by yesac on July 1, 2003, at 15:07:33
In reply to Re: roomate/friend » yesac, posted by Penny on June 30, 2003, at 22:45:10
> What course of graduate study are you preparing for, if I might ask? (you don't have to share if you don't want to...)
Social work. I want to be a therapist.... funny, huh? But, I may also want to work as a prison social worker or as a hospital social worker. Lots of time for it all, I figure...
> I tend to attract a certain kind of person, which truly says something about me, I think.I think most people do. Just like people find themselves repeatedly in the same kinds of situations wherever they go. I know I have!
> So I'm listening to the therapist here with the "let it go, it's her stuff, not yours" but still struggling. So I told her that she's not the only one who has been hurt in this relationship, and she says, "When have I hurt you?" and I can't name specifics b/c I don't think about things in that way, but I told her that everytime she comes home in a pissy mood and doesn't tell me what's wrong but doesn't talk to me, it makes me wonder what I've done wrong and it hurts me. Because sometimes it's about me, and sometimes it's not. So I told her that she needs to just tell me then and there when I do something to piss her off, not hold it in and wait and then lay it all on me at one time!!!!!
I don't want to admit it, but I think that I'm the one like her in the relationship with my best friend - I'm the one who acts pissy but doesn't say anything. She gets offended. But I've gotten better about that I think.
> Are you in the program at neurosciences? My therapist has mentioned the possibility of DBT to me if things got that bad. I think she was referring to SI or something like that, which I haven't had a problem with as of late. What do you hate about it? How long does it last?No, I'm not in the one at Neurosciences. I need to try to avoid UNC health care, especially psychiatric, as much as possible, because I work in research in the psych dept and there is just that possibility of something getting out or whatever. I just don't want to risk it. I'm not sure if by SI you mean suicidal ideation or self-injury... but that was my sort of initial impression that that was what DBT was a lot for. That and impulsiveness, which I am very much not. The only think I have is the suicidal ideation. But DBT is really about a lot of other stuff. You don't have to be borderline personality or anything. I think actually that most people could benefit from it. But I hate it because it's boring, I don't like "sharing", there's homework, and it just seems kind of simplistic and lame at times. This module lasts about 10 or 11 weeks, but there are 4 modules in all and you can do however many you want to. They each have a certain theme. This is my second module.
Posted by Penny on July 1, 2003, at 15:52:19
In reply to Re: roomate/friend » Penny, posted by yesac on July 1, 2003, at 15:07:33
> > What course of graduate study are you preparing for, if I might ask? (you don't have to share if you don't want to...)
>
> Social work. I want to be a therapist.... funny, huh? But, I may also want to work as a prison social worker or as a hospital social worker. Lots of time for it all, I figure...Actually, I was thinking about social work at one point. My former therapist was a clinical social worker and she actually recommended it to me. I said to her, "How can you say that when I'm in here getting therapy and I'm so screwed up?" and she said, "You take what you learn, and you use it to help others." I thought that was very poignant. So I was looking at SW school, and then started thinking more about medicine, and now I'm planning on nursing school (hopefully at Duke), but thinking seriously about psychiatric nursing. I do think I should take what I have learned and use it to help others.
>
> > Are you in the program at neurosciences? My therapist has mentioned the possibility of DBT to me if things got that bad. I think she was referring to SI or something like that, which I haven't had a problem with as of late. What do you hate about it? How long does it last?
>
> No, I'm not in the one at Neurosciences. I need to try to avoid UNC health care, especially psychiatric, as much as possible, because I work in research in the psych dept and there is just that possibility of something getting out or whatever. I just don't want to risk it. I'm not sure if by SI you mean suicidal ideation or self-injury... but that was my sort of initial impression that that was what DBT was a lot for. That and impulsiveness, which I am very much not. The only think I have is the suicidal ideation. But DBT is really about a lot of other stuff. You don't have to be borderline personality or anything. I think actually that most people could benefit from it. But I hate it because it's boring, I don't like "sharing", there's homework, and it just seems kind of simplistic and lame at times. This module lasts about 10 or 11 weeks, but there are 4 modules in all and you can do however many you want to. They each have a certain theme. This is my second module.That's interesting. How long does a session last, I mean, do you go in the evenings or during the day and for how long? The time factor is always my concern.
Oh - by SI I was meaning self-injury, which is something I've only mildly engaged in, but something that I think my therapist was concerned about. Haven't had that desire this time, fortunately. But suicidal ideation is a big one for me too.
Yes, I can understand you not wanting to mix up your professional life with your personal life, and working at UNC makes that hard. I have made a point to not share my issues with my employer at all, though it does lead to some misunderstanding on days I just can't make it to work. Of course, I was doing well for a while and then with the fall just recently I've taken a few days off, calling in sick, and my boss kind of looked at me funny the last time we talked, so I don't know what he's thinking, but whatever. I can't worry about that right now.
This is the end of the thread.
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