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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bookgurl99 on June 25, 2003, at 23:38:43
I have a question --
one of my friends, a long-term friend who I've known for almost 10 years, has suddenly started confiding to me that people at her job are out to 'get her' by making her feel dizzy and confused. she feels drawn to looking at people's hands, especially at work, and believes that they might be 'casting a spell' on her. she also says that she's hearing bells and construction-type background sounds.
she is attributing this to their being evil and god wanting to draw her closer to him; to this end, she's working towards converting to Christianity and getting baptized.
she seems incredibly scared, though. everything that anyone says is used as evidence of this good vs. evil belief about the universe. for example, i mentioned that an old friend of ours is working her dissertation -- which happens to do with witchcraft in 18th c. Spanish lit -- and she became very distressed.
i lovingly said that maybe she should get her brain scanned to make sure this isn't just a message from God.
looking back on it, there have been times that she believed that someone was trying to control her thoughts -- like when she said that a man was trying to insert thoughts about feeling attracted to him in her brain.
uh -- what should i do? i hope she's really having a spiritual crisis, but part of me wants her to be evaled before she's a danger to herself or others.
Posted by justyourlaugh on June 26, 2003, at 0:09:13
In reply to spiritual crisis vs. psychotic behavior?, posted by bookgurl99 on June 25, 2003, at 23:38:43
wow,,
have you considered contacting one of her family members?...you need to tell them..
if they are not around and you are "really" close ,i think its your duty to give her some reading information/at least/...
and make her see her family doc...then it will become the docs duty to proceed,,,and you can be there for her if she falls...:)
j
Posted by lostsailor on June 26, 2003, at 0:27:32
In reply to spiritual crisis vs. psychotic behavior?, posted by bookgurl99 on June 25, 2003, at 23:38:43
i hope she's really having a spiritual crisis, that MAY be it and that is not ment to be in jest.
Her behavior does seem, well, odd, to say the least. But if she is "religious" maybe what she could use us a priest.
Personally, I often wonder if we medicate those just in personal emotional/sprititual crisis all too often.
But, buyer be ware: she may need on or both kinds of care...
You obviously are a good friend and person.
You lover is lucky to have you and you are lucky to have a lover (esp. her it seems)~tony
Posted by bookgurl99 on June 26, 2003, at 1:03:41
In reply to Re:spiritual crisis vs. psychotic behavior?--books, posted by lostsailor on June 26, 2003, at 0:27:32
> i hope she's really having a spiritual crisis, that MAY be it and that is not ment to be in jest.
>
> Her behavior does seem, well, odd, to say the least. But if she is "religious" maybe what she could use us a priest.Well, she _did_ go to talk to one. She wants me to go to church with her. I would view this all as positive if it wasn't being done in the atmosphere of fear -- she has an aspect of 'giving in', seeming defeated -- like ok, God, you can have me.
> Personally, I often wonder if we medicate those just in personal emotional/sprititual crisis all too often.
>I think there is a new DSM category that has to do with Spiritual/Religious Crises; there is a link about it at http://www.virtualcs.com/se/dxtx/diagnosticcriteria.html. I'm hoping my friend fits under "Psychic opening," which is when people become sensitive to their intuitive and spiritual abilities -- but also tend to experience a great deal of fear. I can say that people in my family who are definitely sane have had experiences similar to this -- we've all seen spirits in childhood.
I feel like there is really a fine line here. I'm trying to be supportive while keeping an eye on her.
> You obviously are a good friend and person.
> You lover is lucky to have you and you are lucky to have a lover (esp. her it seems)
how sweet of you to suggest this. :D
Posted by Dinah on June 26, 2003, at 3:10:05
In reply to spiritual crisis vs. psychotic behavior?, posted by bookgurl99 on June 25, 2003, at 23:38:43
It sounds like more than a spiritual crisis, I'm afraid. Thinking people are out to get her sounds a bit more serious (not that a spiritual crisis isn't). Is there anyone you know who has more influence with her, enough to get her to at least see her family doctor? Does she recognize that the thoughts seem odd? Is she under a lot of stress right now?
There's only so much a friend can do, at least if she doesn't see that there's a problem. She probably needs some professional assessment, but that's not all that easy to arrange if you're not family.
Posted by bookgurl99 on June 26, 2003, at 9:09:31
In reply to Re: spiritual crisis vs. psychotic behavior? » bookgurl99, posted by Dinah on June 26, 2003, at 3:10:05
> It sounds like more than a spiritual crisis, I'm afraid. Thinking people are out to get her sounds a bit more serious (not that a spiritual crisis isn't).
Thanks for giving me your perspective. It is hard to have it in relationship to a good friend, you know? There is a lot of mourning involved for me.
>Is there anyone you know who has more influence with her, enough to get her to at least see her family doctor? Does she recognize that the thoughts seem odd? Is she under a lot of stress right now?
She has _always_ been under a lot of stress at this workplace. Moreover, she works in an atmosphere that emphasizes the study of religion. That's why it's hard to see where one ends and the other begins.
> There's only so much a friend can do, at least if she doesn't see that there's a problem. She probably needs some professional assessment, but that's not all that easy to arrange if you're not family.Well, another close friend has the capacity to diagnose somewhat due to an MSW. All of our conversations have been on the phone so far. But we will all be seeing each other this weekend, so hopefully together with her we can agree on the best course of action.
The thing is, being as paranoid as she is right now I feel that any attempt to get her to the dr. is going to be met with strong resistance. And I _don't_ want her to be on thorazine if she doesn't need it, y'know?
I guess I feel sympathetic because when I developed migraines and doctors couldn't diagnose it, people around me were trying to give me psych. labels for 6 months. (bipolar, medical ocd, 'nervous breakdown,' etc.) There are still 'friends' who drifted away because they thought I was just going crazy.
Posted by Dinah on June 26, 2003, at 9:44:44
In reply to Re: spiritual crisis vs. psychotic behavior? » Dinah, posted by bookgurl99 on June 26, 2003, at 9:09:31
I've had it happen in a few relatives and a friend of my husband's. It's not the end of the world. In one aunt it was just a brief psychotic break brought on by the stress of spousal abuse and divorce. Perhaps your friend could benefit from a change of jobs.
I talked to my therapist about it re. the friend of my husband's. He said to just be low key about it. In this particular case there was no possibility of danger to anyone, and he said that was very frequently true.
It's a shame that people get frightened enough to quit being friends over things like depression or OCD. I admit that psychotic illnesses can be a bit frightening. I remember my aunt speaking in a deep voice as a messenger from God warning that my family would be killed in an accident. This was when I was really young. I was scared witless then, but I hope that I would handle it better now, as my mother in fact did at the time.
They rarely put people on thorazine any more (and it wasn't that bad as I recall - sort of like super-valium). They use things like Zyprexa and Risperdal. And there's no reason she can't continue with a perfectly normal life with the proper medication.
That's assuming that it really is a break from reality. It's just hard to think of being afraid people are out to get her at work, and some of the other things you mentioned, as a purely religious phenomenom.
But your friend with the MSW should be able to help sort things out a bit better. I hope all goes well.
Posted by bookgurl99 on June 30, 2003, at 18:04:52
In reply to Re: spiritual crisis vs. psychotic behavior?, posted by justyourlaugh on June 26, 2003, at 0:09:13
I spent the weekend with my friend. In some ways it was a relief to be with her and see how 'normal' she is and how fun it is to be with her despite her newfound (somewhat illogical) ideas.
There were some strange moments.
When we exited a store, instead of turning to the right (the way we had come and had parked), she said "I like to take different ways," and led us left around the building, the longer way back to her car.
Back home, she asked -- what if the government is putting subliminal thoughts in the air, or in music in stores? What kind of thoughts, I asked, you mean Big Brother thoughts like "Believe the president. Buy more. Help the economy?" She said no, like maybe the government wouldn't want people to like someone and give them thoughts telling them not to be kind to someone, stuff like that. Hmm.
Then later, I asked why she picked the church she's going to, and she said "I don't know if I should tell you. . . I . . felt led to it." But she was being evasive.
She also really wanted to avoid going out, and took insignificant things (like the new neighbor playing music too loud) as being _personally_ directed at her.
In some ways, her thoughts remind me of when I had severe OCD, except for the tendency to personalize everything as directed at her. At that time, I was vigilant and hyper-aware of threats, but I viewed the threats as threats to all people, not just myself.
What left me dismayed was that our good friend, the one with an MSW, said that she couldn't have schizophrenia because she's too old -- 30 -- for the onset of symptoms. He doesn't want to get involved, because he says that -- she said something similar happend at a younger age -- perhaps she's just having a brief break and will return to reality soon. But I feel that it would be useful to her to know that she takes these breaks, and that as the professional health worker he's the one who could convince her to get help.
I feel that he's in denial, because -- like me -- he really disapproves of anti-psychotics. Their long-term effects are so negative, and they are not really necessary for those who have brief episodes.
I feel caught in a moral dilemma here.
> wow,,
> have you considered contacting one of her family members?...you need to tell them..I could easily track down her parents or siblings. I am not sure how to tell them. Also, they are highly religious and are likely to take this as a sign from God that she is not meant to be involved with her live-in boyfriend, a sweet, intelligent, non-Catholic, 'colored' boy they disapprove of. I would hate to administer that sort of chaos.
> if they are not around and you are "really" close ,i think its your duty to give her some reading information/at least/...
> and make her see her family doc...then it will become the docs duty to proceed,,,and you can be there for her if she falls...:)
> jhmm. . well, she is several hours away, but other supportive friends are near. we have sort of agreed to be there if something develops here. to be a web of support.
i wonder if i could cut and paste some info on it and send it to her. i fear losing her friendship, though. she is also likely to weave me in to the 'conspiracy' against her if i bring this up; i'm scared that she could return to normal but never forgive me.
aaugh. what to do, what to do.
Posted by noa on June 30, 2003, at 19:34:17
In reply to Re: spent weekend with friend- LONG POST, posted by bookgurl99 on June 30, 2003, at 18:04:52
This is a tough one. If she had a similar episode when she was younger, will she discuss that with you?
She sounds psychotic to me. But I don't suppose sending her articles is going to work, since she has a general conspiracy theory kind of outlook. She'll probably think you've been "poisoned" by the gov't. influences not to like her, or something.
From what you say about her parents, it is hard to tell. If you think they can be helpful, that is one thing. But if you think they'll just use it to criticize her, then it will just confirm, again, her theory.
What about the live-in boyfriend? Can you talk to him?
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