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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2003, at 21:24:10
You guys know every single thing about me, but I can't write a simple introduction.
But I do hope those who feel alienated here dip their toes in and test the waters. It's a great group of people here (despite the occasional skirmish) and we loooooove to meet new people. It keeps the board alive. Otherwise we'd just start our own Yahoo group and talk to each other.
Posted by lostsailor on June 20, 2003, at 22:24:30
In reply to Agh I can't do it., posted by Dinah on June 20, 2003, at 21:24:10
I 'know" what you said the other night.
I, too, feel the same at times. I almost left babble for reasons such as yours. I wrote to an email to the only one I mail or im with here asking many of the same things you did in your other post.
I "know" what you meant...but have found some leave for good reasons and some for not. Some need to change names, some just wish to. I thought of it---a fresh start so to speak, but if I can't babble and be my-self with all of you, what good would changing names do????
I am silent at times, but still read usually. I "know" there are folks "here" for me--and you have been many times--I hope I have done the same with/for you. If not, though, i owe you so to speak for you have pitched in to help me when I thought me ship was sinking.
We all go through phases and that is what is part of what brings us all here. I am here for you as you are for me as I am for others as they are for me. Gads, what would my profs of old think of that sentence???
thank you and thank all others that read this!!
~tony
Posted by shar on June 20, 2003, at 22:29:48
In reply to Agh I can't do it., posted by Dinah on June 20, 2003, at 21:24:10
Posted by Dinah on June 21, 2003, at 2:02:38
In reply to Re: Agh I can't do it.---dianha, posted by lostsailor on June 20, 2003, at 22:24:30
Tony,
I'm not really sure what you mean, because I'm still confused by all of this. I know what you mean about changing names though. If I can't be me, what difference would it make. And if I am me, people would guess.
But it seems like there is a huge rash of name changes lately, so anytime anyone comes to the board and starts posting and seems familiar with the people here, I feel suspicious that they are someone I know. And that's a nasty feeling. It keeps me from posting to people that I'm sure are perfectly innocent. It makes me feel like I need to question everything. It makes me start seeing relationships everywhere, even where they might not exist.
I'm glad you had someone you could email for the answers. A lot of people here, myself included, don't. And we feel like we've stumbled onto something that we shouldn't. I don't know who A Little Sphinx is. I just had the feeling that she/he was someone else. A crazymaking feeling.
And that's not the only posting name change lately. And I'm not talking about those like Slinky or Gracie who've been open about it. In one instance, it's pretty clear from the posting style who the poster used to be. So what do I do then? If I continue to post to that person with my relationship with that person in mind, I'm afraid of letting the cat out of the bag, plus I feel like I'm colluding in deceiving (however innocently) others on the board who might not have caught on. Yet it is virtually impossible to treat this person as a stranger without feeling like I'm playing games. So I feel like I can't post more than single lines to this poster. It'll take a long time for me to feel trust again and be able to post without a lot of effort to this person again.
Their right? Sure, as long as they don't post under two names at once. But it still feels like a type of gameplaying I don't like to play.
Tony, I have supported you and been supported by you in the past. But these cryptic posts upset me. You have every right to support anyone in any way you deem fit. I might suggest that if you have off board contact with someone, that private knowledge might best be shared off board. But that's just me. You're free to do as you wish.
But you, and others, have to expect that if others feel excluded, that if others feel that games are being played that they are being not only excluded from, but having that exclusion rubbed in their faces, it might have an affect on how others want to relate to those they feel are playing those games. And if that sounds convoluted I'm sorry, but I don't want to get into naming names or accusing anyone.
That's the other side of rights. Responsibilities and taking the consequences.
Yours fondly, but with confusion and distress,
Dinah
Posted by Dinah on June 21, 2003, at 2:48:52
In reply to Did you mean Yahell group? (nm) » Dinah, posted by shar on June 20, 2003, at 22:29:48
Chuckle. Oh yeah! That's why we haven't left. rofl. (just kidding again)
You're right about Yahoo. It is a capricious beastie with a mind of its own. And I swear that it monitors me. Whenever I so much as hint of sex, bang. Out I go. Booted. Frequently freezes my machine. Such a puritan little Yahoo.
Posted by lostsailor on June 21, 2003, at 10:50:35
In reply to Re: Agh I can't do it » lostsailor, posted by Dinah on June 21, 2003, at 2:02:38
Posted by yesac on June 22, 2003, at 13:20:59
In reply to Re: Agh I can't do it » lostsailor, posted by Dinah on June 21, 2003, at 2:02:38
> And that's not the only posting name change lately. And I'm not talking about those like Slinky or Gracie who've been open about it. In one instance, it's pretty clear from the posting style who the poster used to be. So what do I do then? If I continue to post to that person with my relationship with that person in mind, I'm afraid of letting the cat out of the bag, plus I feel like I'm colluding in deceiving (however innocently) others on the board who might not have caught on. > Their right? Sure, as long as they don't post under two names at once.Hi Dinah,
Okay, I don't think that you mean me, but I am becoming afraid that with my name change, you are mad/annoyed at me. I really tried to be open about it and make it clear that my name change has absolutely NOTHING to do with the board. I'm not trying to be deceptive or mysterious or anything like that. I also don't have any specific relationships with anyone on the board and rarely direct any posts to a specific person, unless it is a response to their posting, or it is something like this.As for posting under two names, I have been doing that, but more to phase out my old name and not confuse people if they directed a post to my old name and I'm responding as someone else.
Posted by Dinah on June 22, 2003, at 17:57:35
In reply to Dinah... » Dinah, posted by yesac on June 22, 2003, at 13:20:59
Hi. I'm sorry if I made you feel uncomfortable. You were pretty open about changing your name, and Brio is right. You might want to change it a bit more if you're worried about others knowing it's you. My posting name has nothing at all to do with my real name, so I don't think anyone could identify me that way. Although anyone who knew me could identify me from the other things I say.
I've got this constitutional problem with ambiguity. It kind of literally makes me nuts. My Rorschach says that I spend inordinate effort trying to fit parts together to make a coherent whole, and that when my efforts fail, I get exhausted and start sort of mentally flailing away. It almost made me believe in that test, which I never really did before. And the level of ambiguity lately has been relatively high on the board. So I just get frustrated. But I'm not angry with you. And the example I gave is not about you either.
I've posted to you pretty freely since you changed your name, haven't I? So you see, I'm really not upset with you.
And I'm sorry if I made you feel uncomfortable.
Apologetically,
Dinah
(And yes, I'm sure that not one person who changed their name did it with evil motivations. But that doesn't make it less disconcerting to try to post to someone you have a relationship with, or think you may have a relationship with, as if it was a stranger. It's not quite as bad as posting with two names at once, which Dr. Bob requests that we don't do. But there is some of the same flavor. That's why I particularly appreciate the graceful and thoughtful way that Slinky and Gracie changed their names. But certainly there is a long history on this board of people starting afresh with new names, and not only not telling of the change, but vehemently denying any guesses as to who they once were. It isn't against the rules or anything. In small doses it even makes an interesting puzzle or guessing game. It just isn't a small dose right now. It's a mind boggling dizzying dose. But that's not your fault. It must be the phases of the moon or something. And the fact that I have trouble dealing with it isn't your fault either. That's my stuff and I own that it's my stuff.)
Posted by Dinah on June 22, 2003, at 18:53:18
In reply to Re: Dinah... » yesac, posted by Dinah on June 22, 2003, at 17:57:35
Forget everything I've said on the subject. No sin in changing your name. Or in speaking to friends in code on the board. If it bothers me, it's my problem not anything else.
I'm reaffirming my intention to follow Noa's lead in the matter. I will evolve.
I have no intention to make anyone feel uncomfortable about their decisions.
Posted by wendy b. on June 22, 2003, at 21:15:36
In reply to Agh I can't do it., posted by Dinah on June 20, 2003, at 21:24:10
>Otherwise we'd just start our own Yahoo group and talk to each other.
Which group in particular are you refering to here, Dinah? ASH? You think it's not ok for a group of people to go off psychobabble and do this? I don't understand why others have to feel badly just because you deem it somehow inappropriate.
>... I feel suspicious that they are someone I know. And that's a nasty feeling.This I also do not understand. Things are out of one's control, they're out of your control, they're out of my control. But certainly if they WERE under my control, I would have not allowed A Little Sphynx to get suicidal. Or anyone else on here. But because Sphynx expressed it in a way that was somehow controversial -- and we have indeed seen some awful ways of expressing suicidality on this board -- Sphynx was deemed unworthy of support.
Or because I knew the person and vouched for the seriousness of the intent, I was being... what? I can't even explain or understand why this made you uncomfortable in the way that it seemed to.Some people have indeed changed their names on p-babble. And maybe you could try to imagine why they felt the need. Or in what possible contexts you might forgive such behavior. They seem to be doing it for their own internal, and most likely, very personal reasons.
So: there are groups of people *elsewhere*, TALKING TO EACH OTHER. And not to us! These people are not conducting their interactions based on whether or not it feels good to you or to me, Dinah.
> To speak of private matters in a public setting, in such a way that deliberately excludes others, that I would not do. To be proud of it.... That I do not even understand.Since this seems calculated to make SOMEBODY feel badly, I'll answer for several of us (yeah, how crappy of me to feel the human need for support over this, as my friend gets closer and closer to death, and for me to have the need to discuss this off the board). What I said was: I knew for a fact that Sphynx was actively suicidal, rather than mulling over the idea, as she had been a few days in a row, before she posted the "I've made up my mind" message.
>Posting under different names without being open about it does bother me. A lot.And now everything's ok?
>Forget everything I've said on the subject. No sin in changing your name. Or in speaking to friends in code on the board.
But, you said all of the above only hours ago. I am still feeling sad over Sphynx's difficulties, and then I also have to wrestle with the astonishment and hurt that anyone here would find my way of supporting Sphynx to be suspect.
Why is it ok to take out your own feelings on others, and then just say, oh, never mind?> I have no intention to make anyone feel uncomfortable about their decisions.
I find this difficult to accept in light of all that's been said. And it felt very accusatory toward me and to others who felt we were being put down or maligned for being loyal.
So now *you feel* that our behavior is ok? And it's ok for you to simply retract these statements? It's hard for me to grasp how this can so easily be done without people being hurt (or at least still smarting) - particularly the person who it was all about in the first place, someone in the throes of a very serious depressive episode.
Confused, but not altogether surprised,
Wendy
Posted by zenhussy on June 22, 2003, at 21:42:16
In reply to Re: Agh... » Dinah, posted by wendy b. on June 22, 2003, at 21:15:36
Thank you Wendy for speaking for a large population when you tell of the seriousiness of a.v.l.s.'s condition and how unsupportive and suspect this board has been toward her.
I am baffled by the open arms and slobbery kisses offered up to some and the cold suspicious shoulder shown to others.
Just because sphinx speaks in tongues (lord knows I don't understand her half the time!) doesn't mean she isn't a human being who is suffering greatly.
I appreciate your words and eagerly await to see what others have to say for how this whole drama has played out. There are many people here who have shown extreme kindness and empathy to almost anyone who comes to this space and to see those very same people shun a suicidal gal breaks my heart. I've lurked this board for ages and really am surprised at the sudden change in behavior/acceptance that has popped up as of late.
on the constantly crashing pc (yep, two hours just to get a browser and connection working and not freezing up requiring endless reboots)
zh
Posted by Dinah on June 22, 2003, at 22:01:00
In reply to Re: Agh... » Dinah, posted by wendy b. on June 22, 2003, at 21:15:36
Wendy, I read just enough of your post to recognize that you are reading your own meaning into what I said. I wasn't referring to ASH. I don't even know what ASH is. I was saying that I enjoyed Babble precisely because of the new posters. And that if I didn't enjoy meeting new posters I would arrange it so that I didn't. I was referring to myself, not anyone else.
As to the rest of your post, as I said, I didn't read it closely because I have no intention of upsetting myself.
I wasn't unkind to A Little Sphinx. Why would I be? I have a great deal of sympathy for suicidal ideation. I didn't respond because I didn't know how to respond. And had no idea how to best be helpful.
You may feel as you wish about me Wendy. What you feel is what you feel. How you express it is how you express it. How I respond is up to me. And I choose to believe that you again misunderstood me.
I'm not going to fight with you. I'm not going to defend myself further. You may post whatever you wish. I know the truth about myself better than you do.
I have been open about every single thought that occurred to me about this event. You need not read anything else into it. But feel free to if you must.
Posted by Dinah on June 22, 2003, at 22:03:02
In reply to Re: Agh...Dinah » wendy b., posted by zenhussy on June 22, 2003, at 21:42:16
Since this was addressed to me, am I to assume you are accusing me of unkindness?
I had hoped that you knew me better than that.
Posted by zenhussy on June 22, 2003, at 23:18:39
In reply to Re: Wendy » wendy b., posted by Dinah on June 22, 2003, at 22:01:00
>> As to the rest of your post, as I said, I didn't read it closely because I have no intention of upsetting myself.
I'm glad you are taking protective measures to insure your safety by not reading the entire post that someone posts to you.
However, would you please explain how it is that you are able to moderate this board when you don't even read entire posts?
I am very sincere in this question Dinah as the contridictions in your posts and statements are beginning to make me wonder how it is that you can moderate this board AND keep yourself safe.
Your safety, and the safety of all posters, is what needs to come first for everyone. Each individual is responsible for their own actions and words. As people with mental illnesses we must take responsibility for what we post here. We must also take responsibility for our own safety. Dr. Bob is not a father figure to come rescue posters when they are having trouble with disengaging from reading threads or posts or posters that they find upsetting.
Over the years many have shown varying degrees of difficulty in staying away from posts that are triggering, harmful, or damaging to them in some way, shape or form. I admire those that have shown the ability to protect themselves by disengaging when things on this board become too much for them to handle. I feel great sympathy for those than are not able to disengage since reading their pained posts about not being able to stop (almost like an addiction perhaps?--this is the opinion of zenhussy and zenhussy alone) makes me sad. But just because I am saddened by reading posts by someone who is unable to remove themselves from this board when necessary for their health and safety does not mean that I'm upset about reading their posts.
This board does not force anyone to read any posts. If posts are too troubling then people need to either use the anti-addiction limit function at the top of the page that Dr. Bob has provided or ask other posters for help in how to stop being so involved in posts that are 'harming' them.
So, again, I truly wonder how it is that you can effectively moderate if you aren't even reading entire posts.
I am upset by the very fact that wendy b. wrote out a though provoking post to you about what has been occurring on this board lately and you, for your own safety which is understandable yet as a moderator quite confusing, don't even have the respect to read her post and answer her.
This board continues to get stranger and stranger. I will take up my questions about the efficacy of moderators over on admin with Dr. Bob as I see this as being a large problem with posters moderating---especially posters who don't even read the entire posts. It just doesn't add up.
I am trying to understand here but grow more confused with each post and flip flop of thoughts and feelings regarding posters changing names, 'coded messages', outsiders, insiders, ASH, et al.
Now it is I who is the lost confused one.
extremely disappointed in the tone and administration going on on PSB,
zh
>>You need not read anything else into it. But feel free to if you must.
Oh this is the kicker here Dinah Marie. You need not?! Everyone reads into posts what they will but to tell another that she needn't read more into a post? And then to say feel free if you must? tsk tsk tsk Again I expect more from someone with the responsibilities and duties of a moderator of this board. But as I said above I will take that issue up on the admin board as that is where that part of this conversation belongs.
> Wendy, I read just enough of your post to recognize that you are reading your own meaning into what I said. I wasn't referring to ASH. I don't even know what ASH is. I was saying that I enjoyed Babble precisely because of the new posters. And that if I didn't enjoy meeting new posters I would arrange it so that I didn't. I was referring to myself, not anyone else.
>
> As to the rest of your post, as I said, I didn't read it closely because I have no intention of upsetting myself.
>
> I wasn't unkind to A Little Sphinx. Why would I be? I have a great deal of sympathy for suicidal ideation. I didn't respond because I didn't know how to respond. And had no idea how to best be helpful.
>
> You may feel as you wish about me Wendy. What you feel is what you feel. How you express it is how you express it. How I respond is up to me. And I choose to believe that you again misunderstood me.
>
> I'm not going to fight with you. I'm not going to defend myself further. You may post whatever you wish. I know the truth about myself better than you do.
>
> I have been open about every single thought that occurred to me about this event. You need not read anything else into it. But feel free to if you must.
Posted by Dinah on June 22, 2003, at 23:54:38
In reply to As to the rest of your post...I didn't read it » Dinah, posted by zenhussy on June 22, 2003, at 23:18:39
Posted by zenhussy on June 23, 2003, at 0:52:48
In reply to Re: Agh...Dinah » zenhussy, posted by Dinah on June 22, 2003, at 22:03:02
> Since this was addressed to me, am I to assume you are accusing me of unkindness?
>
> I had hoped that you knew me better than that.
>
>
Dinah,The double carrets (sp? the thingies that indicate the person to whom the post is directed) in my post were to wendy b. I was only using her subject line in my subject line of that post.
I can only see it fit using your own words here that you felt inclined to offer up to wendy b.: You need not read anything else into it. But feel free to if you must.
warmly,
zh
Posted by Dinah on June 23, 2003, at 1:23:10
In reply to Re: Agh...Dinah » Dinah, posted by zenhussy on June 23, 2003, at 0:52:48
Excuse my confusion. Since Wendy's post only read Agh, and apparently checked the add name of previous poster box. While your post read Agh...Dinah and then you checked the add name of previous poster box to address it to Wendy, I thought you must have added the "Dinah" to the subject line with a purpose. Forgive me if that was not your intent.
As I stated, I was confused because I thought you knew me well enough to know that I was not deliberately unkind to ALS. I have never complained about people posting suicidal ideation or suicidal intent no matter how it was expressed, and I never, ever would.
I wrote more, but the last time this happened, I tried to explain and apologize and not only did it not work, but it opened up more unpleasantness. So this time I'm not going to grovel or explain and explain and explain. Probably that won't work either, but I don't know what will, so I am at a loss. And being at a loss, I throw in the towel.
I think this probably belongs at Admin, but I wouldn't want to get blasted for redirecting it there, so I'll leave it to Dr. Bob as to where it belongs.
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 23, 2003, at 4:40:06
In reply to Re: Agh...Dinah » wendy b., posted by zenhussy on June 22, 2003, at 21:42:16
> > To speak of private matters in a public setting, in such a way that deliberately excludes others, that I would not do. To be proud of it.... That I do not even understand.
>
> this seems calculated to make SOMEBODY feel badly
>
> WendyPlease don't jump to conclusions about others.
> I am baffled by the open arms and slobbery kisses offered up to some and the cold suspicious shoulder shown to others.
>
> There are many people here who have shown extreme kindness and empathy to almost anyone who comes to this space and to see those very same people shun a suicidal gal breaks my heart.
>
> zhOr post anything that could lead others to feel accused.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, thanks.
Posted by wendy b. on June 23, 2003, at 8:23:02
In reply to Re: please be civil » wendy b. » zenhussy, posted by Dr. Bob on June 23, 2003, at 4:40:06
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20030508/msgs/236271.html
This is the end of the thread.
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