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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kalyb on June 12, 2003, at 15:49:36
I've posted about all this stuff before, so I'm sorry for boring the pants off everybody.
Brief resume: I've been living in the home of a "friend" and her partner (and now, new baby) for a year, as a lodger in their spare room. I pay rent, but I'm also expected to do a lot of work about the place, which for various reasons, I can't, or feel too unwell to do a lot of the time. And there is tremendous amount of work to do here - 5 dogs, the new baby, parrot, fish, rabbits, other small animals, not to mention the house (which is always dirty anyway).
I was depressed when I moved in, have been happier at times, and now very depressed and on medication, which I've only started taking a few weeks ago. Hence any positive effects are only really making themselves known now.
Yesterday, "friend" is stressed and starts yelling at me for not helping more. In fact the last week I'd started feeling better and started to help more, but it's not much, I know, and evidently not enough.
We end up having a talk. I discover that the meds are doing something, because I get the sudden flash of insight that since a child, having a "serious talk" or even not so serious, has always brought on intense anxiety, meaning that I would freeze up, clam up, rarely say a word and not be able to express myself at all. But now the meds have given me a clear still head and a non-pounding body - amazing!
Anyhow during this talk, she makes some things very plain. Here are some of the things she said, verbatim:
"You've been here a year, I've seen you go up and down, then up and down again... you'll probably always be like that... but it's obvious you don't realise the effect it has on us."
"You don't care about anyone else... never ask them how they're feeling"
"You're wrapped up in yourself... I know other people like that, so I know you'll never change."
"It's like living with a sulky teenager all the time."
"My partner gets depressed sometimes, but HE gets up every day and still goes to work and gets on with things. Why the hell can't you?"
"I can't ask you for help because you never seem to want to do anything I need you to do."
"There you go again... you're turning this conversation around to yourself."
"My partner said last night: "She needs a man!".
Me: "I had one, didn't I?" (bursts into tears)
"Yes and he got fed up with you as well!"All this time I am desperately trying to think "This is only her opinion! This is just her opinion!" but it still hurts and goes deep. I don't *have* any other input or anyone else's opinion at the moment. These are the only people I interact with on a daily basis.
At her last comment, I got so angry that I walked out and cried for an hour. She has some strange idea that I was the reason the relationship ended and has brought this up before. What was she, a fly on the wall...? And what if it was my fault, what the hell business is it of hers anyway?
Later, we had a calmer chat about things and I actually pretended to confide in her that I'd recently found out he (the ex bf) had been seeing someone else, that's why he ended it. I gave her a good, plausible story. She believed it. So now, although it was a complete lie, to save myself further hurt, she should leave it alone. I hate lying but feel NO pricks of conscience in this case. It's going to save me a lot of pain.
I hate living here but I have nowhere else to go except a homeless hostel. I don't belong here, she makes me feel abnormal and subhuman, with put downs and criticisms on a daily basis, and it really does not feel like a home, although it is the only home I have.
And no, I don't like doing things for her, but I do what she asks, regardless, even though I'm not really even doing things for myself at the moment. I feel I'm being exploited. I force myself to do these chores, which is why she gets the message that I don't want to do them. But should I be doing them? I have lost all idea of what's reasonable and what is not. She thinks it's OK to speak to me like that (above), so I think it's okay to not really want to help her. Let's have a little respect here, maybe? Or am I incapable of understanding this?
Of course I understand how my depression is affecting them. That's why I'd like to get away, leave them to their own little world to get on with their own lives. It's too much effort just to get up each day, I don't have the energy to work out even HOW to pretend I'm not feeling bad so that it doesn't affect them. Even staying in my own room out of the way isn't enough, because I'm not allowed to do that. What else can I do?
I'm an alien on my own planet. I wish there was someone else out there who I could be around who would make me feel I'm even a tiny bit normal. Better still, a little planet of my own where nobody can compare me to what they think I should be.
I don't know!!! I just have no idea how I'm supposed to behave any more, or what's acceptable, or unreasonable.
Help me....!
Kalyb (confused) xx
Posted by whiterabbit on June 12, 2003, at 16:50:12
If you can afford to pay rent there, you could afford to pay rent elsewhere, couldn't you? Even if you have to find another roommate, it sounds dreadful where you are now and it can't be helping your state of mind to live with someone who criticizes all the time (and I know EXACTLY how you feel, I've been married to Mr. Critic forever - although that's coming to an end). Besides, it just sounds like a "loud house" that would drive me up the wall in no time.
You're British, aren't you? I've always had the completely unfounded idea that I would be very happy there. I did live in Germany for 2 years and I'm very disappointed in myself for not visiting England, I can't imagine how I missed it.
Anyway, if I ever make it over there to live for awhile you can come stay with me! I'd need somebody to show me around and otherwise I wouldn't pester you.
8-) Gracie
Posted by daizy on June 12, 2003, at 17:55:26
In reply to An alien on my own planet, posted by kalyb on June 12, 2003, at 15:49:36
> "You don't care about anyone else... never ask them how they're feeling"Thats a classic, Ive heard that one recently myself! I sympathise I really do, Im living with the parents and I feel like I just want to leave sometimes too, But like you, I have nowhere else to go. I suppose when you feel bad its hard to have a positive outlook and actually appreciate the good things, like being with people who care about you, and have your best interests at heart?
Its hard for people who havnt been depressed to know what it feels like, well its almost impossible. They dont know that little things, like getting up in the morning are Big things for us, they see it as laziness and self pitty. Maybe you could have a talk with them and tell them how you feel exactly? Well good luck with things anyway!
Posted by kara lynne on June 12, 2003, at 18:28:49
In reply to An alien on my own planet, posted by kalyb on June 12, 2003, at 15:49:36
Hi kalyb,
I'm at work and don't have the time to read all that you posted or do it justice, but I wanted to respond in the meantime.It's so hard to survive our own intense self-criticism during all of this; to have to endure the harsh and ignorant judgement from others is just not fair. Congratulations on making it out of a very stressful encounter relatively intact! What a difficult situation to live in--especially with the newborn and all the conflict that must bring up for you.
You're right. It is 100% none of her business why the relationship ended between you and your boyfriend. I'm sorry you felt like you had to make excuses to someone so uncompassionate. But if you feel it helped you out of a sticky situation and it will keep her quiet, then that's all that matters. But you don't owe her any excuses. It sounds like she's already got her ideas, and she's just going to find ways to keep you in the place she's created for you.
I wish you could move to a more healing environment; one where you don't have to constantly dodge other people's damaging projections. You're just beginning to find out who you really are, and you need to take care of her tenderly. Maybe you could find a room somewhere else? Somewhere where you are required to do minimal work (maybe for an older person) or just pay your money and live in peace?
Well I'm sorry I'm all fired up! I just want you to know I'm rooting for you, and searching for other signs of life on our planet...
(((((((((kalyb)))))))))) Kara Lynne
Posted by noa on June 12, 2003, at 18:56:53
In reply to Fellow Alien, posted by kara lynne on June 12, 2003, at 18:28:49
I had the same question Gracie did--if you are paying her rent, why not pay it somewhere else where you are just a roommate and not in such a hostile relationship.
It would depress me to live in such hostility. It really would.
Are there any housing advocates who could help you figure out other housing options?
Posted by fallsfall on June 12, 2003, at 21:13:24
In reply to An alien on my own planet, posted by kalyb on June 12, 2003, at 15:49:36
I agree that you need to see if you can get out of there. It sounds like a lot of work, but if you can see that things will be better sometimes you can get up the energy to do it. Break it into small pieces: 1. Where to find listings of apartments/roommates/rooming houses. 2. Figure out which you are most likely to afford and like. 3. Visit a couple to see what the market is like. etc. Each step can take 1 day or 1 week or 1 month. As long as you make some progress you are doing fine.
Posted by tina on June 12, 2003, at 21:52:51
In reply to An alien on my own planet, posted by kalyb on June 12, 2003, at 15:49:36
I am so so sorry you've had to deal with that kind of insensitive attitude. I know what it's like to be told that I'm "self-absorbed or lazy" or the classic "just get busier and you'll feel better"
Your friend's comments are just the ramblings of an ignorant, non-understanding ingrate.
I don't have any great advice for you, I'm just so sorry you had to go through that and I wanted you to know.
tina
Posted by kalyb on June 13, 2003, at 8:53:21
In reply to You aren't, posted by whiterabbit on June 12, 2003, at 16:50:12
Thank you, Gracie!!
> If you can afford to pay rent there, you could afford to pay rent elsewhere, couldn't you?
I wish it were that easy! If it was, I'd have left months ago. I've posted about this before, but I am not working because of my illness (I wouldn't be able to hold a job down, and I'm almost unemployable due to my poor work record).
Instead, I am on a state benefit, a type of disablement allowance. Some of my rent is paid for me by the DSS (the govt. department) and I have to make up the rest out of my meagre allowance.
There is great prejudice against people on benefits in this country. If I look through the local paper for housing, every advertisement carries the stipulation: No DSS. And in any case, most places require a large deposit plus rent in advance, which I could not hope to save for on my allowance. (Well, I could in theory, but it would take about a year!).
I have been told to apply for council housing, but I know what it will be - a one room self-contained bedsit in a rough, bad area, (kind of like your "projects") and I know the waiting lists are long... It may well take 6 months to a year.
>....it can't be helping your state of mind to live with someone who criticizes all the time (and I know EXACTLY how you feel....
Thanks! She is not a bad person. She tries very hard to be kind, but it's just not working. She thinks she is doing her best, but it's all at the wrong angle, and she has such strong opinions on almost everything that I cannot hope to change her views.
>Besides, it just sounds like a "loud house" that would drive me up the wall in no time.
I've lived in loud houses before, I don't mind. It's weird, but I lived in shared houses for 12 years in the big city. It was hard - some of the people had problems of their own which affected me - but at least I was my own person and independent. Last night I dreamed I was moving back into one, with some of the people I used to share with.
> You're British, aren't you? I've always had the completely unfounded idea that I would be very happy there. I did live in Germany for 2 years and I'm very disappointed in myself for not visiting England, I can't imagine how I missed it.
Then you should come! It's not a sauna *grin*. I think you might like it, but the cost of living is higher than in the USA. Is there any chance you could come for a visit, a vacation? Why am I thinking it might do you some good....? :)
> Anyway, if I ever make it over there to live for awhile you can come stay with me! I'd need somebody to show me around and otherwise I wouldn't pester you.
Wouldn't that be wonderful!!! Could you really put up with me? Remember, my last bf got pissed off with me! (according to The Oracle) *very big grin*.....
Kalyb xx
(a little more at ease today)
Posted by kalyb on June 13, 2003, at 9:20:20
In reply to Re: An alien on my own planet, posted by daizy on June 12, 2003, at 17:55:26
> Thats a classic, Ive heard that one recently myself!
It is, isn't it? But it's partly true. It's just as hard for me to understand what it's like to be "normal", as it is for them to empathise with my current state, I guess.
>I suppose when you feel bad its hard to have a positive outlook and actually appreciate the good things, like being with people who care about you, and have your best interests at heart?
I think she does have my best interests at heart although this arrangement here is definitely for her benefit too - she needs my rent money and my help. I wish I was more reliable, but I'm not the right person for the "job".
> Its hard for people who havnt been depressed to know what it feels like, well its almost impossible. They dont know that little things, like getting up in the morning are Big things for us, they see it as laziness and self pitty. Maybe you could have a talk with them and tell them how you feel exactly? Well good luck with things anyway!
I've tried to talk to her about it, but because she has a brother who suffers from depression, she thinks she knows it all. She doesn't yet know (neither do I really) that my problems are likely a lot greater than mere depression. It would not suprise me to discover I am bipolar and have OCD as well. I know she has no clue what those conditions are. I mentioned to her sometime ago that I wonder if I am bipolar, and she didn't know what the word meant.
From reading this forum, I am suspecting I may be bipolar and OCD. It's becoming clear to me that my father is bipolar, and my mother has always suffered from anxiety (very much like my own) with a measure of OCD too, I think.
I've left a leaflet in the living room about Depression, whether it will help or not, I don't know; it could even make her angry that I've done that. At least the leaflet has a section on how friends and family should treat someone with depression.
Her partner isn't helping a lot - if she lacks compassion, then he is very rigid in his viewpoints, worse than her. He sees everything in black and white. Her little outburst and our chat the other day arose from him being unable to understand me, and moaning at her about me. But talking to him wouldn't work.
And it's stresful to be in this situation, I am longing for my own little space where I could curl up in a ball and just sleep for weeks if I choose to. I wouldn't, probably.... I lived for 5 years on my own before coming here, and getting out every day just to buy something nice for supper was a little daily pleasure. I love food and enjoy cooking, but I can't here because there are no food shops and I have no transport. Plus this family I'm living with have very strong food preferences, and I'm criticized for liking what I like..... Go figure!!
Kalyb xx
Posted by kalyb on June 13, 2003, at 9:27:05
In reply to Fellow Alien, posted by kara lynne on June 12, 2003, at 18:28:49
Hey Kara... so nice to hear from you, thanks for responding :)
> It's so hard to survive our own intense self-criticism during all of this; to have to endure the harsh and ignorant judgement from others is just not fair.
Yes!! This is so right!! I wish I could get this across to her..... *sigh*
>Congratulations on making it out of a very stressful encounter relatively intact! What a difficult situation to live in--especially with the newborn and all the conflict that must bring up for you.
Thanks, and yes it does...
> You're right. It is 100% none of her business why the relationship ended between you and your boyfriend. I'm sorry you felt like you had to make excuses to someone so uncompassionate. But if you feel it helped you out of a sticky situation and it will keep her quiet, then that's all that matters. But you don't owe her any excuses. It sounds like she's already got her ideas, and she's just going to find ways to keep you in the place she's created for you.
Now that is an interesting viewpoint. "the place she's created for you"... I don't see how her behaviour is bringing me out of anything. Surely praise would be more effective than criticism?
Although, it probably hasn't occurred to her that - although she knows I suffer from low self esteem - someone with no or little self esteem takes criticism to the core... whereas someone with normal esteem has an inner intact "self" which is able to rationalise it? I wonder if this is what she's missing.... what she doesn't understand?
> Well I'm sorry I'm all fired up! I just want you to know I'm rooting for you, and searching for other signs of life on our planet...
> (((((((((kalyb))))))))))aww thanks Kara.... hugs to you too!!!! By the way, I have set up a new email-addy if you ever wished to mail me: kalybat oneteldotcom
Kalyb xx
Posted by kalyb on June 13, 2003, at 9:28:57
In reply to Re: Fellow Alien, posted by noa on June 12, 2003, at 18:56:53
> I had the same question Gracie did--if you are paying her rent, why not pay it somewhere else where you are just a roommate and not in such a hostile relationship.
>
> It would depress me to live in such hostility. It really would.
>
> Are there any housing advocates who could help you figure out other housing options?Cheers for answering, noa - I know we've discussed this before, but I put the problems in my reply to Grace... it's not an easy one!! I keep hoping for a fairy godmother... lol
Kalyb xx
Posted by kalyb on June 13, 2003, at 9:35:31
In reply to Re: An alien on my own planet » kalyb, posted by tina on June 12, 2003, at 21:52:51
Hi tina,
> I am so so sorry you've had to deal with that kind of insensitive attitude. I know what it's like to be told that I'm "self-absorbed or lazy" or the classic "just get busier and you'll feel better"
oooooh yes!! I've had this one from her....lol
> Your friend's comments are just the ramblings of an ignorant, non-understanding ingrate.
Thanks, I am sooo glad someone else sees this the way I do. I think what really destroyed my trust in her is that dogged insistence that my relationship breakup was my fault. She liked the guy a lot, and had a few favours done for her by him. Plus he was good for me, plus he was intellectual, well- paid, had a house in a very desirable location, had good social status....and if we'd contunied seeing each other, I'd have moved in with him.... need I go on? ;)
> I don't have any great advice for you, I'm just so sorry you had to go through that and I wanted you to know.
thanks a lot Tina, it does make a difference, you know :))))) I am just so happy I found this board with all you great people, before this I was alone with it all, and not a soul to share with. I used to call up the Samaritans several times a week, just for someone to talk to.
Thank you to everyone who replied. My appreciation of you all is deep and heartfelt.
Kalyb xx
Posted by whiterabbit on June 13, 2003, at 16:00:51
In reply to Re: You aren't » whiterabbit, posted by kalyb on June 13, 2003, at 8:53:21
And my (soontobeex) husband thinks I'm hopelessly crazy and pretty near worthless. Men...what do they know.
Anyway it sounds to me like you need to sit down with the roommate and define for her EXACTLY the responsibilities that you're willing to take on. As long as the "house rules" are so vague she'll keep complaining. So you decide what you think is a fair share of the work and tell her, "I'll take out the trash (rubbish? do you say trash?) and keep the floors swept, and I'm willing to take turns with you cleaning the bathroom and doing the dishes. You take care of your child and your pets..." or, you know, whatever. I'm serious now, you should do this. Assertive (sometimes aggressive) people take advantage of us quiet
ones and they'll roll right over you if you let them...my mother is very much like that and I've had some bosses from Hell. I used to think, "What's the use, I'll never out-shout this person, I can't go up against those loud competitive types," so you end up running away or feeling like a doormat.But then I got older - no, that sounds awful - then I matured enough to realize that you don't HAVE to combat these people who view every situation as a contest they must win. There is no contest if you refuse to play by somebody else's
rules. What you do is, YOU decide what your boundaries are and what behavior you're willing to tolerate, and then you quietly but firmly draw the line...and do not allow anyone to step over it. At first you will be a little shakey when you say, "I can't talk to you when you're acting like this...we'll talk later." Then hang up the phone or walk away. It works. Also, if somebody asks you to do something that you don't like, just say,
"Let me think about it and I'll get back to you."
End of discussion. Then you go decide what YOU want to do and stick by your decision - no shouting or arguments or lame excuses. You have every right to run your own life.Alright then, I'm stepping off the soapbox.
-Gracie
Posted by kalyb on June 15, 2003, at 11:02:57
In reply to Re: You aren't » kalyb, posted by whiterabbit on June 13, 2003, at 16:00:51
Grace, thank you so much for this post!!
I've printed it out and I shall read it every day to help with my perspective on things.
One of the problems with the lack of boundaries is that she doesn't really want to give me any defined responsibilities. The only one I really know I have, is doing the washing-up and cleaning the kitchen every day whcih, even when I was at my lowest ebb, I still managed to do.
However during our talk the other day, it emerged that she gets up at 6am, looks around her kitchen and wishes it was clean, but doesn't want to do it herself because that would mean I had no "job" to do that day when I finally get up later, and she'd have to ask me to do something else.
It really seems as though she wants my role to be the "odd job person" with no defined duties, just at her beck and call to do whatever she needs done on any given day.
But you are right, I need to overcome my fear of confrontation and sort this out. Whether it will have any effect, I don't know, but now I don't get the crippling anxiety that I've always had in any type of confrontation, I should perhaps make use of this chance to improve my interpersonal skills!
Much love to you Grace, and thanks again for your kind and helpful words.
Kalyb xx
Posted by denise528 on June 15, 2003, at 15:37:52
In reply to Re: You aren't » whiterabbit, posted by kalyb on June 15, 2003, at 11:02:57
Hi Kalyb,
I really do empathise with you, what gives her the right to lecture you like that, it's like kicking someone when they're already down. I really think you should get out of there.
I live in the UK myself. My exboyfried (now a good friend) claims about £800 a month on disability and housing benefit (he suffers from a bad back) all he has to do is work so many hours of the week and he gets to live in a nice house, in a nice area and it's practically paid for. I also have a friend who suffers with psychosis he also claims disability. As far as I am concerned you have a more legitimate claim than my ex, have you thought about getting a part time job, maybe as a cleaner (that's what you seem to be doing there anyway) and then claiming the rest in benefits and moving to somewhere else?
Denise
This is the end of the thread.
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