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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bookgurl99 on June 9, 2003, at 4:56:36
*sigh* My gf is out of a job as of the end of the month. This was a high responsibility, high-paying job that put her through a lot of stress but boosted her self-esteem.
Now, she's going through really low self-esteem. She's being kind of mood swingy and angry, almost wallowing in it.
I see this as a positive change, as the people were very negative to work with.
BUT, suddenly she's all over the map -- talking about trying to get a job in this state, that state. I've agreed to move if possible, but I wish that I had a degree and higher-paying career so I could be an anchor for her right now.
Plus, she's looking to join the military. The position would utilize her skills excellently, but she would have to hide being gay. We may not even be able to live together. For some reason, her therapist supported her in going after this job -- I think heterosexuals just don't have a clue how hard it can be to go through something like this.
To top it all off, she's acting withdrawn and not really discussing her feelings with me. I really love her, so it's hard for me to feel disconnected at a hard time like this.
We're finding relief by writing notes to each other on all this.
- -- just wanted to vent --
agitated bookie
Posted by fallsfall on June 9, 2003, at 7:06:08
In reply to Lots of changes and upheaval at home, posted by bookgurl99 on June 9, 2003, at 4:56:36
That is a lot of upheaval!
Did she look locally before she started looking outside the state? Maybe she sees moving as an opportunity?
It sounds like you are afraid that you will lose her if she goes into the military. If orientation wasn't an issue, would you feel the same way, or would you be able to go with her?
Writing notes sounds like a really good idea. I can often write something down that I can't say. How long have the two of you been together?
This is a hard time. Keep trying to communicate.
Good Luck!
Posted by bookgurl99 on June 9, 2003, at 10:00:58
In reply to Re: Lots of changes and upheaval at home » bookgurl99, posted by fallsfall on June 9, 2003, at 7:06:08
> If orientation wasn't an issue, would you feel the same way, or would you be able to go with her?
>Well, the thing is, if it were not for the government's Hitleresque attitude, we could be married and receiving the same benefits as any other couple. In this case, we could live together openly. But from knowing other gays in the military, if one is accused of being gay and there is 'evidence' such as 'single female living with another single female,' then it is very easy to get kicked out. So, if it were not for 'orientation,' (or, that is, discrimination based on orientation), we could live together with no fears.
I'm annoyed because I feel that she's being unecessarily narrow. One great opening that would have been near San Francisco is closed, so she's suddenly saying,"Oh, then I have to audition for another branch." That seemed like a big leap from my perspective.
She's feared that she would have to turn to the military, but it's like her fear is making her narrow minded. Like, this is it, I'm out of a job in a bad economy, so therefore the military is my _only_ choice.
I also fear losing her. As we've gotten closer to each other, she's pulled away. (She's an abuse survivor, so it may be related from that persepctive.)
Now it seems like it's all easy for her to avoid intimacy by 'just happening' to be posted in a far-off place in the one job where they can monitor all of your letters, email, and phone calls -- and were being 'in the closet' _is_ part of the job.
It makes me feel like her material possessions -- making this enormous career/life sacrifice so she doesn't lose her new car, for example -- are more important than I am to her. If I were a higher priority, I think she would be making a bigger effort to find a job where we could be together.
Posted by whiterabbit on June 9, 2003, at 12:30:17
In reply to Lots of changes and upheaval at home, posted by bookgurl99 on June 9, 2003, at 4:56:36
It would be very difficult for you to stay together if she joins the military. You wouldn't see her at all for the first two months while she goes through basic training. Then, she'll probably be moved to another state for AIT (job training) and be confined to sleeping in the barracks for a matter of months, at least during the week. From there she could be moved to another state for OJT (on-the-job training)for a few more months, or straight on to her permanent
assignment anywhere in the US or overseas. Normally you don't have much choice in where you end up.Because the military does not recognize same-sex marriages, your girlfriend will officially be considered single and housed as such. This means that she will be assigned a room in the barracks that she must maintain, and she will not be given additional funds for housing and food. While you could live in a town nearby the base or post (and remember, she might be stationed overseas), she likely won't be able to contribute that much to your finances as a couple because military people just don't make loads of money, particularly the enlisted (as opposed to officers).
I know this is hard but if she does insist on joining the military, you might want to consider saving yourself a greal deal of heartache and end the relationship. It would be extremely difficult for you to stay near her while was active duty -
every couple of years you would be packing up and heading out for parts unknown, and each time you would have to find a new job and another place to live, it's a very transient life.Try to point her in another direction - there must be a better choice.
-Gracie, 7 years active duty Army
Posted by bookgurl99 on June 9, 2003, at 13:44:30
In reply to Re: Lots of changes and upheaval at home, posted by whiterabbit on June 9, 2003, at 12:30:17
Gracie,
Thanks for your note. I will forward it to my gf and ask her to think about it.
When my gf finally talked to me about it, she told me that she had called the people in charge of this position (it's music related), and that it is quite different from the regular military experience in that she would have a permanent posting. The position is responsible for military music obligations in the D.C. area. She would come in at E-6 pay level. There _are_ other bands assigned overseas.
Actually, musicians are treated much differently in the military than regular enrolled personnel. I had her explain the posting to me, and I looked at the website for it, which indicated a permanent posting at Ft. Myer, Virginia. Would permanent posting eliminate a lot of those moving-around problems?
I suspect that the musicians are treated differently because the positions are so competitive that they require experience to land. Muscians come in as officers with adult personalities, not the adolescents that the military loves to break down.
But, the lack of benefits is a pisser. I hate that she could be yanked away at any moment and I don't even get a f'in' how-do-you-do for being the shining light at home by the military.
I don't want to split up this relationship; this is a marriage to me. I hate the situation.
Conservatives view queers as anti-family, or as breaking up the family. But in reality, it's conservative measures against so-called nontraditional families (what's nontraditional about loving your wife?) that truly harm families. Homos aren't responsible for the problems -- divorce, teen pregnancy, abuse -- that heteros have inflicted upon themselves without our help.
I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here.
books
Posted by stjames on June 9, 2003, at 14:03:41
In reply to Re: Lots of changes and upheaval at home » fallsfall, posted by bookgurl99 on June 9, 2003, at 10:00:58
Have you GF (and her "well meaning" thearpist)
read http://www.sldn.orgEnd of story, I think.
Posted by whiterabbit on June 9, 2003, at 16:02:47
In reply to Re: Lots of changes and upheaval at home » whiterabbit, posted by bookgurl99 on June 9, 2003, at 13:44:30
All I can say is, she better GET IT IN WRITING.
Otherwise you really can't believe a damn thing they tell you, sorry to say. Although they do have you write down your preferences for a posting assignment, veterans refer to this as a
"dream sheet". I never knew anyone who was stationed at the post they requested.On the other hand, if a permanent assignment is written into her contract as a condition for her enlistment, that IS a different matter. If she enters the military as an officer (E-6 is an enlisted rank, not an officer's rank) she will still have to go through officers training school.
And of course, you are right - you will never officially be recognized as a spouse and will recieve no benefits or recognition of any kind
reserved for traditional families - no housing,
rations, medical treatment, moving expenses, PX
access, nothing. You may be able to get a job on post as a civilian, however - the military often hires civilians.
-Gracie
Posted by noa on June 9, 2003, at 16:13:47
In reply to Lots of changes and upheaval at home, posted by bookgurl99 on June 9, 2003, at 4:56:36
I like the notes idea.
Job loss = major stress for any couple or family. do you think some short term couples counseling could help you both to work out a kind of coping and decision-making game-plan?
Posted by noa on June 9, 2003, at 16:18:50
In reply to Re: Lots of changes and upheaval at home » fallsfall, posted by bookgurl99 on June 9, 2003, at 10:00:58
You mentioned feeling like you wish you could be the anchor now during this upheaval. I wonder if her kind of "fleeing" fantasies are at all because maybe she fears that she has failed you as a financial anchor for your relationship. Or the fear that now that she isn't bringing in the good income, what would you want her for anyway? Then, going into the military or moving out of state could be a way of fleeing in case you were to reject her, which it doesn't sound like you are going to do, but maybe she fears it?
Posted by bookgurl99 on June 9, 2003, at 16:55:42
In reply to Re: Lots of changes and upheaval at home, posted by noa on June 9, 2003, at 16:18:50
> I wonder if her kind of "fleeing" fantasies are at all because maybe she fears that she has failed you as a financial anchor for your relationship. Or the fear that now that she isn't bringing in the good income, what would you want her for anyway?
This is so true! She has said something along the lines of now I'm going to leave because she's not a good provider. This is strange, because she didn't have a fancy job when we started dating and I accepted her then, y'know?
Maybe I need to give her more reassurance that I love her regardless. I thought she knew! I think abuse survivors in general can question if others love them for who they are or if they're trying to 'get something' out of them.
Posted by bookgurl99 on June 9, 2003, at 17:32:03
In reply to Re: Lots of changes and upheaval at home, posted by whiterabbit on June 9, 2003, at 16:02:47
Gracie,
what was it like being in the military for 7 years? i can't imagine being on active duty that long -- for a JOB.
what was it like adjusting afterwards? My sister's husband is quitting the Navy in 2004 after almost 10 years.
> You may be able to get a job on post as a civilian, however - the military often hires civilians.
The thing is -- talk about opposites attract -- I would *never* have a job where I couldn't be openly gay. That is not the way I am. I don't have to be in-your-face, but I am a very honest person. Nobody that I know who 'hides it' is living a very healthy life. It may be pragmatic, but it takes its toll on you. I love women and I am totally proud of it. I could not spend my days around those narrowly educated, self-congratulating fools in uniform.
Posted by whiterabbit on June 9, 2003, at 19:30:43
In reply to Re: home, posted by bookgurl99 on June 9, 2003, at 17:32:03
I was never what you would call a really good soldier - I've always been pretty much of a
non-conformist. But I had some trouble with my parents while I was in high school and they threw me out of the house - no money, no help, no nothing. (To this day I maintain only minimal contact with both my parents, who are divorced.)
So I ended up in the service mainly because I didn't have anywhere else to go.I was usually in some sort of trouble but never really bad trouble, I wasn't ever demoted in rank but it did take me longer than usual to make it to E-5 (sergeant). I did get to see places I never would have seen otherwise - basic training in South Carolina, AIT in Texas, OJT in Colorado,
and two different posts in Germany. After that I had an unusual assignment - Jacksonville, Florida.
There is no Army base there, I worked at MEPS (Military Enlistment Processing Station). The last 3 years of my enlistment I was stationed at West Point as "cadet support" - I worked in the hospital there.But after 7 years I was tired of "playing the game", I just couldn't take any more (and West Point isn't even considered a "real" Army assignment - it's comparatively easy duty). Despite that, I did go through a phase of "culture shock" when I returned to civilian life, you just get SO used to the discipline even if you don't particularly like it. For years you've been told exactly where to live, where to work, how to work, how to dress, how to look, how to act, exactly what you can and cannot do, and you do what you're told. Period.
When all of that is suddenly taken away, you feel like you're in free fall. It's a little frightening, actually. Of course you adjust to the civilian world after awhile (or you don't - some people feel so lost that they end up
re-enlisting)but it does take awhile. I still remember the first time I had to call in sick to work - I was just terrified. In the military, there is no calling in sick - you report for duty or report to sick call or you're AWOL. I kept telling myself that I COULD call in sick now and I wouldn't be punished, the MPs wouldn't come pounding on my door. But it was still a very big deal for me to call in sick...you do get brain-washed.Altogether, it was far from easy but it was an exciting time in my life, quite an experience.
There were times and places where I was absolutely miserable but I had some good times too, particularly in Germany (you've never seen so many people who could drink SO much).But I'll tell you the truth - I would not want to be a dependent wife and I would not want a relationship with anyone who is active duty...there are just too many "unknowns" involved, too much time apart. If you decide to go along with it I can tell you that you're in for one hell of an emotional ride. Whether you're secure enough and ready enough for that is up to you. Best wishes...
-Gracie
Posted by noa on June 10, 2003, at 18:41:54
In reply to Re: Lots of changes and upheaval at home » noa, posted by bookgurl99 on June 9, 2003, at 16:55:42
Yeah, I guess it just reminded me of other couples I know where the one with the larger income (usually the man in most couples I know) loses his job and starts to get all wierd like thinking he's not fulfilling his role and letting everyone down, etc. Unfortunately, economy being what it has in recent years, I feel like I've known too many people who have lost their jobs!
Posted by noa on June 10, 2003, at 18:45:53
In reply to Active duty » bookgurl99, posted by whiterabbit on June 9, 2003, at 19:30:43
What really bugs me about the military is that so many soldiers and their families are so poor! It just seems ludicrous to me that soldiers have to rely on food stamps etc. I mean, if we are sending our soldiers into the most dangerous of places and they are our line of defense, why would we treat them so badly?
Posted by bookgurl99 on June 10, 2003, at 19:46:26
In reply to Re: Active duty, posted by noa on June 10, 2003, at 18:45:53
> What really bugs me about the military is that so many soldiers and their families are so poor! It just seems ludicrous to me that soldiers have to rely on food stamps etc. I mean, if we are sending our soldiers into the most dangerous of places and they are our line of defense, why would we treat them so badly?
This is a good point. The same holds true for vets, many of whom are battle-scarred and not given proper entry into society after war. They are then given inadequate medical care as a 'benefit.'
Two years ago, I was in Americorps (domestic peace corps.) I was tremendously poor, qualified for the full allotment of food stamps. This is a 'volunteer' system that Bush/Reaganites want to have replace a good social system, but even people who want to volunteer can't afford to.
It's silly.
Posted by whiterabbit on June 10, 2003, at 20:46:56
In reply to Re: Active duty, posted by bookgurl99 on June 10, 2003, at 19:46:26
This is the end of the thread.
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