![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 6 to 30 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 19:16:29
In reply to Re: Ardmore, OK to be exact, and . . . , posted by noa on May 14, 2003, at 18:57:57
Methinks it has something to do with splitting congressional districts. I read something about it on a news site this afternoon.
Oh yeah, something else I read while perusing news sites was an article about the upcoming lunar eclipse (5/15/03). Apparently, there's a group from Japan (called the Panawave Observatory) who believe that tomorrow is the end of the world.
So, later today, as I was unwrapping toilet paper in bulk (from Costco), roll after roll after roll, I thought "****, we have enough toilet paper to last us until the end of time" - and then, sitting there on the bathroom floor (by myself) amongst 36 rolls of toilet paper, I remembered that article about the end of the world being tomorrow, and I laughed like the madwoman that I am. If tomorrow is doomsday, no one can say I wasn't prepared with plenty of paper goods.
Posted by noa on May 14, 2003, at 23:35:56
In reply to Methinks it has something to do with . . . » noa, posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 19:16:29
Hey--as it happens, I recently bought TP in bulk, too--a whole case, because it was cheaper that way. The case sits in the trunk of the car and I just bring the rolls in as needed. I think it was 48 rolls, so I beat you! Between that and the gallons of water in the trunk, the family of teeny tiny survivalists in my trunk are all set for a long time! Don't worry, I am not going to start keeping cases of canned baked beans there.
Posted by leeran on May 15, 2003, at 2:37:46
In reply to Re: Methinks it has something to do with . . ., posted by noa on May 14, 2003, at 23:35:56
Good idea! I have run out of room for four of the paper towel rolls. That's the perfect solution - thanks!
Re: baked beans . . . I don't think a bean (baked) has ever crossed my lips. I guess I would flunk survivalist school!
Oh yeah, re: #5 on that "10 good things" thread - so true! A day without #5 can be miserable - esp. on Lexapro. When you remember that jingle I hope you'll post it here. I love little ditties like that.
Thanks again for the space saving solution!
Posted by bookgurl99 on May 16, 2003, at 1:49:01
In reply to Methinks it has something to do with . . . » noa, posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 19:16:29
> So, later today, as I was unwrapping toilet paper in bulk (from Costco), roll after roll after roll, I thought "****, we have enough toilet paper to last us until the end of time" - and then, sitting there on the bathroom floor (by myself) amongst 36 rolls of toilet paper, I remembered that article about the end of the world being tomorrow, and I laughed like the madwoman that I am.
LOL. This totally made me laugh. And reminded me that, 6 years ago, I was briefly a security guard at a paper factory that made TP!! There were HUGE roles stacked up; the fork lift drivers would stack them around and hide inside to avoid work.
I never had to buy any. :D
Posted by lil' jimi on May 16, 2003, at 10:53:25
In reply to Where are all the Democrats - for Shar, posted by mair on May 14, 2003, at 11:21:14
> legislators, I mean? Are you sure you're not harboring them? The article I read said the Gov had dispatched the Texas Rangers to find them. What laws have they broken which would allow anyone to forcibly return them? Just really curious about this odd turn of events. Politics in my state are too boring.
>
> Mairhi mair ~
i live in austin and i am all too familiar with our political situation .... it's got me considering increasing my lex dose (but this is the social board not the meds board).
texas state constitution requires a 2 thirds majority for a quorum ..... absent more than a third and no business can be done.
and it also authorizes the state to force the legistlators' return to the legistlature to attain a quorum, if need be ..... this was as likely to be to haul 'em outta whore houses and saloons back when the constitution was written. .... some thing's never change.
thanks for asking the question closest to my heart!
anything else i can clear up for you?
~ jim
Posted by mair on May 16, 2003, at 12:24:50
In reply to Re: Where are all the Democrats, she asked ? » mair, posted by lil' jimi on May 16, 2003, at 10:53:25
jim
The article I read also said that the legislators ran off because a republican legislature coupled with a republican governor had been ramrodding a bunch of legislation through and this was the only way the Dems could come up with the avoid certain bills from passing by the deadline. Has it been really that bad this year? - from your perspective of course.
Also why wouldn't the legislature just extend the deadline after the Dems get back?
Finally, why are there so many cool people from PB living in Austin? You, shar, phil that I know for certain plus the tragically departed and much missed sar?
Mair
Posted by lil' jimi on May 16, 2003, at 15:39:44
In reply to Another question » lil' jimi, posted by mair on May 16, 2003, at 12:24:50
hi mair,
thanks for your reply! ... sorry this is so long.
but first, "finally ... "
you wrote:
> Finally, why are there so many cool people from PB living in Austin? You, shar, phil that I know for certain plus the tragically departed and much missed sar?
>
> Mairi had no idea these folks came from austin! i am grateful you told me, and reminded me, that, of course, it seems appropriate that austin would be represented here .... although i wouldn't have guessed it to be represented by such revered and august company .... and tragic.
except for one thing, unlike those folks you mentioned.... i am Not cool... sorry .... {this has been our public service announcement}.
and now i know (or should have known) that knowlegeable austinites will be checking to see how i do here ... and i need that .... thanks!
> jim
>
> The article I read also said that the legislators ran off because a republican legislature coupled with a republican governor had been ramrodding a bunch of legislation through and this was the only way the Dems could come up with the avoid certain bills from passing by the deadline. Has it been really that bad this year? - from your perspective of course.
>(the legistlators are due to arrive in austin at 7 a.m.) .....
redistricting
redistricting is the where u.s. house majority leader, tom delay, drew a line in the sand and
redistricting is the reason the democrats were forced to deny the lege a quorum.there is a very long historical perspective on this, including the not-to-be-ignored 130 year reign of house democratic leadership Ending with This session of the lege.
then there are the ambitions of mr. delay to eliminate the districts of encumbent democrats .... 5 or 6 districts are to be gerrymandered into republican majority districts, including the district of my representative, lloyd doggett, who currently represents almost all of austin ...... while under delay's proposed redistricting, austin would be sliced up into 4 different districts, solely to dilute the liberal voting strength in austin.
this redistricting is to replace the redistricting that was approved by the republican attorney general, the republican governor and a 3 judge panel as legit just 2 years ago, but it just didn't give tom delay enough republican victories for him to feel comfortable enough as majority leader of the u.s. house.
the new redistricting is needed because when the voters voted they voted for too many democrats, so what tom delay's republicans could not win at the ballot box, they want to gerrymander in the state legislature.
besides this redistricting/gerrymandering fiasco ? ...... things have gone very badly indeed for the democrats because there are many very urgent issues before the lege and tom craddick placed redistricting ahead of even the state's bugetary disaster .... tom delay comes to town and all of a sudden those things are not as important to the people of the state of texas as how many votes tom gets to play with in the u.s. house of reps.
by and large, any democratic agenda in the lege has been deleted and /or ignored (and not surprisingly so), because the republicans now hold every major state office and both house of the lege and every seat of the texas supreme court..... but ...
<i have just finished washing the dishes and now i'm back ... just to reveal how this may not maintain my once-hoped-for continuity .... heh.>
.... those defeats have been tolerated by the democrats because they were to be expected given the republican majority in the texas house and senate ..... the texas house democrats did not object, in the same way as they have demonstrated to the gerrymander threat, to these massive, yet more ordinary legislative defeats (more like rude domination, given craddick's leadership style) .... draconian cuts to more desparately needed social services would be tragic enough...
... but, it was the highjacking of the whole legislative process to do the bidding for tom delay's defiantly partisan political gratification ... (along with gratifying guys like rove and card and cheney) ....
this managed to bring the house democrats together on one issue as nothing has in decades and it created more party untiy than anything else could have ..... the dems will of course go back to their usual infighting once the gerrymander threat is gone.
> Also why wouldn't the legislature just extend the deadline after the Dems get back?
>naturally, texas state government courses are part of the legislative state requirements for high school and state university degrees ... i mention this because it makes it more impressive that what goes for the state constitution is widely known for being an archaic and flawed document for effective state governance, But deliberately so, we understand .... state of texas founding fathers held a deep distrust of central authority and crafted a constitution with as many encumbrances to weilding authority as possible...
to change that date would require amending the state constitution, which would require voter approval ..... although, there have been other possibly threatening strategies suggested ... time will tell....
and you wrote:
> - from your perspective of course.
>.. ..ah, .. yeah, ... my perspective .... i suppose it shows ...
well, as Will Rogers used to say,
... " I've never been a member of an organized political party!
I've always been a Democrat!"cure mad cowboy disease, y'all!
~ jim
Posted by shar on May 16, 2003, at 21:33:39
In reply to Re: more replies » mair, posted by lil' jimi on May 16, 2003, at 15:39:44
Well, thanks, lil jimi, that is what Killer Bees was all about ... about 10 years ago; but I could not have described it with the 2/3 majority info (or whatever you said)! I no longer have my finger on the pulse of the legislature.
I know there is also the issue of legislation that has to do with cutting the Children's Insurance Program, about which one legislator (Republican) said "Well, maybe this will convince their parents to go back to their private health insurance..."
AS IF !!!!!!
Then, followed up by a legislator (Republican) who said there were churches and other agencies like that to help the kids who fell between the cracks. A lovely image, to be sure.
While, at the same time, they are approving 10 million for corporate giveaways (attract business to Texas, that would naturally be good for the Repubs), and ... oh, dang, I'm having a senior moment, another bill that was similar in nature.
If anyone wants names, I'll have to look up the article I read about it, which is at work, so it'll be Monday before I can get names for those fine figgers of politicians.
In Texas, there are yellow dog Democrats. That means we'd vote for a yellow dog if that was the only Democratic candidate. Well, I'm one of those, and the recent performance of the Texas legislature is how come.
It puts me in mind of a political cartoon I've mentioned here before. A D.C. politico-government type is being 'grilled' by the senate. The senator is saying "I thought your administration said it would not balance the budget on the back of the poor man."
The grillee replies, "Excuse me, Senator, but I believe these cuts will mainly affect women and children." Welcome to the new Texas.
Hey, Jimi, Hi from Austin!
Shar
Posted by mair on May 16, 2003, at 22:43:55
In reply to Re: more replies » mair, posted by lil' jimi on May 16, 2003, at 15:39:44
Jim
Thanks for the Texas civics lesson. I guess i had read about the redistricting controversy - I didn't realize that Mr. Delay was behind it.
It's always boggled my mind how politicians of both stripes can spend so much time on relatively unimportant matters to the exclusion of far more crucial things. My state has been trying to deal with some awful school funding problems for the last couple of years and yet the republican controlled house ate up most of last year's session trying to do away with a law that recognized gay "marriages" (civil unions). By the time they realized they weren't going to be successful, there was no time left to deal with any substantive money issues. I think the only reason they didn't try the same thing this year was that we elected a Republican Governor in the interim who said he wouldn't support any efforts to overturn the civil union legislation.
I've never been in your part of the world - I suspect that if I went there, I might feel like I was in a foreign country, Austin excepted perhaps. The politics in your state have always sounded wild too. I just have a tough time dealing with the glee with which Texas seems to mete out its death penalty and the mentality of judges who see nothing all that harmful about a death penalty handed down in a case where the defendant's attorney fell asleep during critical stages of the trial. It's not that the rest of the states are all that much more enlightened - they just maybe do a better job of keeping their injustices out of the limelight.
Thanks again for indulging my curiosity.
Mair
PS: Whatever happened to the concept of checks and balances?
Posted by lil' jimi on May 17, 2003, at 0:06:09
In reply to Re: more replies, posted by shar on May 16, 2003, at 21:33:39
hey shar ~
thank you for replying!
it is wonderful to hear from a political kindred spirit!
another yellowdog comrade-in-arms!> Well, thanks, lil jimi, that is what Killer Bees was all about ... about 10 years ago; but I could not have described it with the 2/3 majority info (or whatever you said)! I no longer have my finger on the pulse of the legislature.
>
> I know there is also the issue of legislation that has to do with cutting the Children's Insurance Program, about which one legislator (Republican) said "Well, maybe this will convince their parents to go back to their private health insurance..."
>
> AS IF !!!!!!
>
> Then, followed up by a legislator (Republican) who said there were churches and other agencies like that to help the kids who fell between the cracks. A lovely image, to be sure.
>
> While, at the same time, they are approving 10 million for corporate giveaways (attract business to Texas, that would naturally be good for the Repubs), and ... oh, dang, I'm having a senior moment, another bill that was similar in nature.
>
> If anyone wants names, I'll have to look up the article I read about it, which is at work, so it'll be Monday before I can get names for those fine figgers of politicians.
this budget deficit handed the republican ideologues their cover for declaring open season on social services, your example of the proposed cuts to the CHIPS program being among the most egregious.just what we need are these serious grim, depressing current events.... so i indulge in them and complain about it(?).
>
> In Texas, there are yellow dog Democrats. That means we'd vote for a yellow dog if that was the only Democratic candidate. Well, I'm one of those, and the recent performance of the Texas legislature is how come.
>
> It puts me in mind of a political cartoon I've mentioned here before. A D.C. politico-government type is being 'grilled' by the senate. The senator is saying "I thought your administration said it would not balance the budget on the back of the poor man."
>
> The grillee replies, "Excuse me, Senator, but I believe these cuts will mainly affect women and children." Welcome to the new Texas.
>beautifully said ..... much more tastefully to your point than my rambling diatribe... bravo!!
> Hey, Jimi, Hi from Austin!
>
> Sharhi shar ~
hello from our live music capital of the world !
~ yellowdog jimp.s. oh, and try this (it is very long!):
Fort Worth Star-TelegramParty trumps people in redistricting ploy
Linda Campbell
COMMENTARYMay 15, 2003
Once upon a time, Tom DeLay killed vermin and varmints and other disreputable critters for a living.
Now he's trying to prove that he remembers how -- by exterminating any remnants of bipartisanship in the Texas House.
Little does DeLay, the U.S. House majority leader, care if he incites a blood feud in Austin; he'd just as soon suck the Democrats dry in his lust to make himself master of the universe.
In his insatiable ambition to obliterate the two-party system, DeLay apparently expected Texas House Dems to roll over on their backs like roaches on Raid and let his water boys roar undisturbed through the Capitol with a new congressional district map.
When Democratic Texas House members hightailed it north of the Red River, it wasn't to avoid thorny problems still facing the state. It was out of exasperation that neither DeLay nor Texas House Speaker Tom Craddick would let earnest, hard-working lawmakers of both parties focus on the vital business that the Legislature ought to be spending its energy on as the session winds down.
By arm-twisting a hideous, probably illegal remap to the House floor, DeLay engaged in "an abuse of power that, at its core, evinces a fundamental distrust of voters, serving the self-interest of the political parties at the expense of the public good."
That spot-on definition of gerrymandering came from the panel of federal judges that had to draw new congressional districts for Texas in 2001 after the Legislature shirked its duty to do it after the 2000 Census.
DeLay and his supporters complain that the court's map doesn't give Republicans enough districts. After all, the GOP swept statewide offices in 2002 but managed only a 15-17 minority in congressional seats.
Well, hooey and rat poison.
Even a political scientist who advised Republican state leaders in the court case that led to the judge-made map said it contains 20 predominantly GOP districts. That voters in five Republican-dominated districts re-elected Democrats in 2002 demonstrates that those local folks care far more about constituent service than about "R" and "D" labels or about boosting Tom DeLay's political testosterone.
And if you're deluded into thinking DeLay's plan would oust Ted Kennedy-type "radicals" in favor of GOPers more in line with voters' thinking, then get real.
Rep. Charlie Stenholm, a Stamford farmer and ranking member of the Agriculture Committee, is as conservative as Democrats come -- and then some.
Rep. Chet Edwards of Waco, an Aggie, has been a budget hawk and an effective advocate for Fort Hood and military families. Plus, he's been honored as a friend of small business.
Rep. Max Sandlin of Marshall is an oil and gas man who opposes government fiscal excesses and has worked on laws to fight terrorism and improve national security.
But, by golly, in DeLay's worldview they're all cursed by the mark of the D-evil, so their districts must be reconfigured.
And state Rep. Phil King of Weatherford is just tickled to be leading the charge with a bill that plays havoc all around the state, and the heck with compactness, contiguity and communities of interest.
(King had better be getting some phenomenal perks for his district in exchange.)
Makes perfect sense to toss African-American neighborhoods of southeast Fort Worth into a district with suburban Westlake and fast-growing northwest Tarrant County.
Sure enough, Fort Worth's north side shares common concerns with Willow Park and the sprawling areas of Denton County.
Yes, indeed, let's combine a small chunk of east Fort Worth inside Loop 820 with Coppell.
Politics may be about rewriting the rules to favor your party when you're on top, but this attempt hardly promotes the overall public good.
What the party myopes refuse to acknowledge is that a huge swath of Americans -- and that includes Texans -- don't live and die by elephants and donkeys. They want government that makes sense for their lives, for their communities and for their vision of what their nation and state ought to be.
This week's antics show that the Tom DeLays of the world can only big-foot so far before they kick themselves in the shins. Problem is, the Texas House leadership let him kick all of us this time.
Linda P. Campbell is a Star-Telegram editorial writer. (817) 390-7867 lcampbell@star-telegram.com
Posted by Snoozy on May 17, 2003, at 10:47:59
In reply to Re: more replies, posted by shar on May 16, 2003, at 21:33:39
> I know there is also the issue of legislation that has to do with cutting the Children's Insurance Program, about which one legislator (Republican) said "Well, maybe this will convince their parents to go back to their private health insurance..."
Wow - if this weren't tragic for so many families, I would have to laugh at that statement. Laugh to stop from crying at any rate.
> It puts me in mind of a political cartoon I've mentioned here before. A D.C. politico-government type is being 'grilled' by the senate. The senator is saying "I thought your administration said it would not balance the budget on the back of the poor man."
>
> The grillee replies, "Excuse me, Senator, but I believe these cuts will mainly affect women and children." Welcome to the new Texas.This is great!
I enjoyed the commentary - can't remember who posted it. But the writer left out one delightful tidbit about DeLay - he consumed DDT to show that it wasn't harmful. Maybe that's the problem right there!!
Posted by lil' jimi on May 17, 2003, at 14:54:28
In reply to Re: more replies » lil' jimi, posted by mair on May 16, 2003, at 22:43:55
hi mair ...
you wrote:
> Jim
>
> Thanks for the Texas civics lesson. I guess i had read about the redistricting controversy - I didn't realize that Mr. Delay was behind it.
>i only hope it was at all helpful .... i am far from being an expert, but believe we must know our enemies, ....anyway.
> It's always boggled my mind how politicians of both stripes can spend so much time on relatively unimportant matters to the exclusion of far more crucial things. My state has been trying to deal with some awful school funding problems for the last couple of years and yet the republican controlled house ate up most of last year's session trying to do away with a law that recognized gay "marriages" (civil unions). By the time they realized they weren't going to be successful, there was no time left to deal with any substantive money issues. I think the only reason they didn't try the same thing this year was that we elected a Republican Governor in the interim who said he wouldn't support any efforts to overturn the civil union legislation.
>this is the chronic problem:
far too many chickens with their heads cut off, screaming about everybody else's morals;
far too few public servants,
drudging through the budget numbers,
working to make funding public schools equitable,
et cetera ...> I've never been in your part of the world - I suspect that if I went there, I might feel like I was in a foreign country, Austin excepted perhaps. The politics in your state have always sounded wild too. I just have a tough time dealing with the glee with which Texas seems to mete out its death penalty and the mentality of judges who see nothing all that harmful about a death penalty handed down in a case where the defendant's attorney fell asleep during critical stages of the trial. It's not that the rest of the states are all that much more enlightened - they just maybe do a better job of keeping their injustices out of the limelight.
>i have driven across a lot of our country .... for as vast as the beautiful diversity as our land is rightfully famous for, it seems to me to be getting more homogeneous by the minute, kind of like domestic globalization .... while just off the beaten path, delights of local variations await .... i remember the "eh-too-fey" (sorry, i do not know how to spell this cajum dish's name) was delicious in eunice, la .... and a 'fish sandwich' i enjoyed in a little diner in a small village in upstate Ny: the fresh just-baked, hand-sliced bread slices, barely holding an inch-thick slab of realy fresh cod .... here it would more likely be some barbecue or mexican food ..... but it is still macdonalds-walmart-target-wendys-dennys-cable-tv-et=cetera, ...pretty much anywhere you go.
i find the diversity politically and culturally show parallel variations .... except i find a lot gteater commonality among the local/ small scale / people-to-people scale socially ,
versuses more adversarial regional friction on the larger scale, like state to state.
all of which is my long way of saying, (and, yes, this is the same anthropological kind of interest we would bring to going to visiting a foreign land):
"Come on down! The folks are fine!
(you may have to ignore the ocassional redneck or bigot or pundit, sorry 'bout that!)"> Thanks again for indulging my curiosity.
>
> Mair
>Mair, it has been a pleasure and a healthy catharsis for me to vent my views here ....
> PS: Whatever happened to the concept of checks and balances?
interesting question .... in regards to ?
texas' civics?
national govt?
budget concerns? (a ?joke?... "checks", "balances" ...sorry)happy trails,
~ jim
Posted by mair on May 17, 2003, at 20:17:17
In reply to Re: more replies » mair, posted by lil' jimi on May 17, 2003, at 14:54:28
jim
any time you want to rant about politics fire away - you make it all sound pretty interesting to me.
Mair
PS; don't ever apologize for your bigots - they're everywhere frequently under different guises. I live in an area overrun with intellectual elitists who can be just as insufferable because they are so certain they're right.
Posted by lil' jimi on May 17, 2003, at 22:43:18
In reply to Re: more replies » lil' jimi, posted by mair on May 17, 2003, at 20:17:17
> jim
>
> any time you want to rant about politics fire away - you make it all sound pretty interesting to me.
>
> Mair
>
> PS; don't ever apologize for your bigots - they're everywhere frequently under different guises. I live in an area overrun with intellectual elitists who can be just as insufferable because they are so certain they're right.
hi Mair,thanks for the invite ..... i'll take you up on it soon, i'm sure.
bigots, what are you going to do with them..?
of course, i'm not really apologizing for my bigots, because their not my bigots; i wouldn't have any bigots; they're their own bigots!
(and of course i understood you meant texas' bigots .... and we got those alright.)i'm bigoted .... against bigots.
but i can't help but feel that the common dunder-headed racist is a relatively ignorant fool who poses much less of a threat than the danger from the republicans' organized, well-funded and concerted fascist efforts.
and i am very flattered that you think i make anything sound interesting. .. Thanks! ... that really means a lot to me!
keep hope alive,
~ jim
Posted by Dinah on May 18, 2003, at 13:13:56
In reply to Re: more replies » mair, posted by lil' jimi on May 17, 2003, at 22:43:18
from a republican fascist
Posted by Dinah on May 18, 2003, at 13:31:59
In reply to Re: more replies » mair, posted by lil' jimi on May 17, 2003, at 22:43:18
"concerted fascist efforts". Fascism is a popular phrase to spread around, especially with regards to republicans. But I'm not sure that it stands close scrutiny. The Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of fascism is as follows:
Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: 'fa-"shi-z&m also 'fa-"si-
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
Date: 1921
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of oppositionHow do you see that as being congruent with the basic Republican philosophy of individual rights, minimal government involvement, and free enterprise, again with minimal government involvement?
Posted by shar on May 18, 2003, at 13:52:33
In reply to Re: but as a matter of mild interest » lil' jimi, posted by Dinah on May 18, 2003, at 13:31:59
> How do you see that as being congruent with the basic Republican philosophy of individual rights, minimal government involvement, and free enterprise, again with minimal government involvement?Actions vs. words might be one way, at least in the example of Texas being discussed here. That is, the actions being taken do not dovetail very well with the basic Republican philosophy stated above, IMO as a YDD.
Shar
Posted by Dinah on May 18, 2003, at 14:18:51
In reply to Re: but as a matter of mild interest » Dinah, posted by shar on May 18, 2003, at 13:52:33
Since it is mainly Admin that I have an issue with. I find Dr. Bob's policies in this matter frankly appalling.
Posted by lil' jimi on May 18, 2003, at 14:58:59
In reply to Re: why thanks. » lil' jimi, posted by Dinah on May 18, 2003, at 13:13:56
> from a republican fascist
There have been many anti-fascist republicans ....
Lincoln ..... Barry Goldwater .... many in between.
and there have been (and still are) democrat fascists, too, to be sure! ...
no personal offense was intended.... honest.
sorry,
~ jim
Posted by lil' jimi on May 18, 2003, at 15:25:30
In reply to Re: but as a matter of mild interest » lil' jimi, posted by Dinah on May 18, 2003, at 13:31:59
hi dinah,
hope you're doing okay .... we're alright.> "concerted fascist efforts". Fascism is a popular phrase to spread around, especially with regards to republicans. But I'm not sure that it stands close scrutiny. The Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of fascism is as follows:
>
> Main Entry: fas·cism
> Pronunciation: 'fa-"shi-z&m also 'fa-"si-
> Function: noun
> Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
> Date: 1921
> 1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
>
> How do you see that as being congruent with the basic Republican philosophy of individual rights, minimal government involvement, and free enterprise, again with minimal government involvement?sorry if my partisan tone sounds too harsh .... i'll try to do better.
we agree about the definition of "fascism"....
your last paragraph above beautifully and clearly speaks to what has been the long and honorable tradition of the republican party.....for which they have historically raised the bar for the title "Loyal Opposition" .... i thought you should have included 'fical responsibility' also.
but those values are the values teddy roosevelt and barry goldwater .... they are the american values of individualism and libertarianism .....
and they are the values that bushcheney have worked against ...
....
how else can we explain that every policy initiative, legislative proposal, regulatory action of their's tries to expand government, increrase the deficit, restrict alternatives and sell the nations' natural resources?because those are very worthy values you cite .... why would this "republican" administration abandon them with such fascist determination?
i hope i wasn't too stressful for you.
~ jim
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 18, 2003, at 15:45:19
In reply to Re: more replies » mair, posted by lil' jimi on May 17, 2003, at 22:43:18
> the republicans' organized, well-funded and concerted fascist efforts.
> and there have been (and still are) democrat fascists, too, to be sure! ...
>
> no personal offense was intended.... honest.Please remember that the main idea here is support and don't post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down. Even if you don't intend to offend anyone personally. Thanks,
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Posted by Dinah on May 18, 2003, at 16:10:55
In reply to Re: I redirected my reply to Admin, posted by Dinah on May 18, 2003, at 14:18:51
never mind.
And thanks Dr. Bob, for restoring my faith in you. Sorry I didn't give you the benefit of the doubt.
Posted by Dinah on May 18, 2003, at 16:15:15
In reply to Re: but as a matter of mild interest » Dinah, posted by lil' jimi on May 18, 2003, at 15:25:30
I appreciate that, Jim. And I accept the apology. And I also apologize if I was a bit strident. This is an ongoing issue I've had with Dr. Bob.
Posted by lil' jimi on June 20, 2003, at 13:00:34
In reply to Re: but as a matter of mild interest » Dinah, posted by shar on May 18, 2003, at 13:52:33
hey Shar!
> > How do you see that as being congruent with the basic Republican philosophy of individual rights, minimal government involvement, and free enterprise, again with minimal government involvement?
>
> Actions vs. words might be one way, at least in the example of Texas being discussed here. That is, the actions being taken do not dovetail very well with the basic Republican philosophy stated above, IMO as a YDD.
>
> Shar
>thank you for such an eloquent post ... ... so much meaning in so few words ... so concise and so clear .... ... my posts Always ramble with tmi and blah blah, "me me me!" ...
yours are beautiful ... ... someday i hope to be able to emulate your example.
oh, speaking of Actions vs. words ... ...
.... check this out:
.
.
..... Words versus DeedsProduced by the House Appropriations Committee – Minority Contact: David Sirota (202) 225-3481
http://www.house.gov/appropriations_democrats/caughtonfilm.htm
Children’s Hospitals
Bush touts the need to support children’s hospital at Egleston Children’s Hospital in Atlanta [3/1/01]WHAT BUSH SAID:
“This is a hospital, but it's also - it's a place full of love. And I was most touched by meeting the parents and the kids and the nurses and the docs, all of whom are working hard to save lives. I want to thank the moms who are here. Thank you very much for you hospitality…There's a lot of talk about budgets right now, and I'm here to talk about the budget. My job as the President is to submit a budget to the Congress and to set priorities, and one of the priorities that we've talked about is making sure the health care systems are funded.” - Egleston Children's Hospital, Atlanta, Georgia 3/1/01
WHAT BUSH DID:
Bush’s first budget proposed cutting grants to children’s hospitals like the one he visited by 15% ($34 million). His 2004 budget additionally proposes to cut 30% ($86 million) out of grants to children’s hospitals.
First RespondersBush touts first responder funding in Georgia [3/27/02]
WHAT BUSH SAID:
“We're dealing with first-time responders to make sure they've got what's needed to be able to respond. “ – Bush, 3/27/2002
WHAT BUSH DID:Bush had been saying that he was proposing $3.5 billion in “new” money for first responders. However, his budget tried to cut more than $1 billion out of existing grants to local police/fire departments to fund this. Then, in August of 2002, Bush rejected $150 million for grants to state and local first responders. Bush’s decision prompted the President of the Firefighters Union to say, “President Bush, don't lionize our fallen brothers in one breath, and then stab us in the back by eliminating funding for our members to fight terrorism and stay safe.” The President of the Virginia firefighters association said, “The president has merely been using firefighters and their families for one big photo opportunity.”
Ethanol
Bush promotes ethanol at Ethanol Plant in Wentworth, South Dakota [4/24/02]
WHAT BUSH SAID:“I said when I was running for President, I supported ethanol, and I meant it. (Applause.) I support it now, because not only do I know it's important for the ag sector of our economy, it's an important part of making sure we become less reliant on foreign sources of energy.” – Bush at South Dakota Ethanol Plant 4/24/02
WHAT BUSH DID:According to the AP, Bush’s 2004 budget proposes to eliminate funding for the bioenergy program that funds the Dakota Ethanol Plant he visited. [4/22/02]
Even Start
Bush visits Albuquerque to tout Even Start volunteer and mental health care.
[4/29/02]
WHAT BUSH SAID:Under the headline “Bush lauds Albuquerque woman for volunteerism” the AP reported on Bush’s visit to New Mexico to tout Lucy Salazar, a volunteer with the Even Start literacy program. “One of the things I try to do when I go into communities is herald soldiers in the armies of compassion, those souls who have heard the call to love a neighbor like you'd like to be loved yourself, and have followed through on that call; Lucy Salazar is a retired federal government worker. She teaches reading skills to pre-kindergarten and kindergarten children -- incredibly important…And oftentimes, citizens such as her never get the praise they deserve. Lucy, thank you for coming and representing thousands of people like you.” - Bush, 4/29/02
WHAT BUSH DID:
According to the Associated Press, Bush proposed “to slash funding 20 percent for the Even Start program, which offers tutoring to preschoolers and literacy and job training for their parents” – the very program he was touting in New Mexico [2/4/02].
Housing
Bush touts housing funds at the Carver Homes in Atlanta, which is supported by a HUD Hope VI grant [6/17/02]
WHAT BUSH SAID:"Part of being a secure America is to encourage homeownership." He also went on to talk about his experience meeting the residents saying, "You know, today I went to the -- to some of the home -- met some of the homeowners in this newly built homes and all you've got to do is shake their hand and listen to their stories and watch the pride that they exhibit when they show you the kitchen and the stairs...They showed me their home. They didn't show me somebody else's home, they showed me their home. And they are so proud to own their home and I want to thank them for their hospitality, because it helps the American people really understand what it means." -- Bush, 6/17/02
WHAT BUSH DID:According to AP, “President Bush's proposed 2004 budget for the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, announced Monday, phases out HOPE VI” the program Bush visited and touted in Atlanta. “Renee Glover, executive director of the Atlanta Housing Authority said. ‘We didn't anticipate that HOPE VI would be eliminated.’” [AP, 2/5/2003]
Port Security
Bush talks of the need to fund port security at Port Elizabeth, NJ [6/24/02]WHAT BUSH SAID:
“We're working hard to make sure your job is easier, that the port is safer. The Customs Service is working with overseas ports and shippers to improve its knowledge of container shipments, assessing risk so that we have a better feel of who we ought to look at, what we ought to worry about.” – Bush, 6/24/02]
WHAT BUSH DID:The President’s 2003 and 2004 budget provides zero for port security grants. The GOP Congress has provided only $250 million for port security grants (35% less than authorized). Additionally, in August, the President vetoed all $39 million for the Container Security Initiative which he specifically touted.
Retirement Security
Bush in Madison “calls for worker pension protection [8/7/02]
WHAT BUSH SAID:“We've got to do more to protect worker pensions.” – Bush, 8/7/02
WHAT BUSH DID:Just four months after touting pension security, Bush’s Treasury Department announced plans to propose new rules that “would allow employers to resume converting traditional pension plans to new ‘cash balance’ plans that can lower benefits to long-serving workers. Such conversions are highly controversial. Critics contend that they discriminate against older
workers in violation of federal law” [Washington Post, 12/10/02]
LaborPresident George W. Bush takes a turn at a table saw before “thanking American Workers” on Labor Day [9/2/02]
WHAT BUSH SAID:
"Our workers are the most productive, the hardest working, the best craftsmen in the world. And I'm here to thank all those who work hard to make a living here in America.” – Bush, 9/2/02
WHAT BUSH DID:Bush’s 2003 Budget proposed a 9% ($476 million) cut to job training programs and a 2% ($8 million) cut to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration. Similarly, his 2004 budget proposes a $60 million cut to adult job training programs and a total elimination of the Youth Opportunities Grants, which provide job training to younger workers.
Border SecurityBush touts border security with Canadian Prime Minister Chretien in Detroit [9/9/02]
WHAT BUSH SAID:
“A secure and efficient border is key to our economic security.” – Bush, 9/9/02
WHAT BUSH DID:While Bush did hold a photo-op to sign legislation promising more INS/Border Patrol staff and facilities, his budget provided no additional money for this. Additionally, in August, Bush vetoed $6.25M for promised pay upgrades
for Border Patrol agents. Additionally, he vetoed all $39 million for the Container Security Initiative. His 2004 Budget slashes total total “Border and Transportation Security” by $284 million.
Fiscal ResponsibilityBush “Stresses Budget Discipline and Fiscal Restraint” in Iowa [9/16/02]
WHAT BUSH SAID:
“One of the ways we've got to make sure that we keep our economy strong is to be wise about how we spend our money. If you overspend, it creates a fundamental weakness in the foundation of economic growth. And so I'm working with
congress to make sure they hear the message -- the message of fiscal responsibility.” Bush, 9/16/02
WHAT BUSH DID:Less than 6 months after this pronouncement, Bush proposed a budget that would put the government more than $300 billion into deficit. As National Journal noted on 2/12/02, Bush’s own 2004 budget tables show that without Bush’s tax and budgetary proposals, the deficit deficit would decline after 2006, but with Bush’s proposals the deficit would grow indefinitely.
Vocational/Technical Ed
Bush leaves for his speech at Rochester, MN Community & Technical College [10/18/02]WHAT BUSH SAID:
“I want to thank the good folks here at Rochester Community and Technical College for your hospitality…The most important issue -- the most important issue for any governor in any state is to make sure every single child in your state receives a quality education.” – Bush, [10/18/02]
WHAT BUSH DID:Bush’s 2004 budget proposes to cut vocational and technical education grants by 24% ($307 million). His budget also proposes to freeze funding for pell grants for low income students.
VeteransBush honors American and British veterans at a White House ceremony [11/11/02]
WHAT BUSH SAID:
“These men and women are still the best of America. They are prepared for every mission we give them, and they are worthy of the standards set for them by America's veterans. Our veterans from every era are the finest of citizens. We owe them the life we know today. They command the respect of the American people, and they have our everlasting gratitude.” – Bush, 11/11/02
WHAT BUSH DID:According to a letter sent to the President by the major veterans groups, Bush’s 2003 budget “falls $1.5 billion short” of adequately funding veterans care. [Independent Budget, 1/7/02].
The Disadvantaged
Bush talks about the importance of funding foodbanks at a DC Food Bank [12/19/02]WHAT BUSH SAID:
“I hope people around this country realize that agencies such as this food bank need money. They need our contributions. Contributions are down. They shouldn't be down in a time of need. We shouldn't let the enemy affect us to the point where we become less generous. Our spirit should never be diminished by what happened on September the 11th, 2001. Quite the contrary. We must stand squarely in the face of evil by doing some good.” - Bush, 12/19/02WHAT BUSH DID:
The 2003 and 2004 Bush budgets proposes to freeze the Congregate Nutrition Program, which assists local soup kitchens and meals on wheels programs. With inflation, this proposal would mean at least 36,000 seniors would be cut from meals on wheels and congregate meals programs. Currently, 139,000 seniors are already on waiting lists for home-meal programs. His 2004 budget continues the freeze.
No Child Left BehindBush talks up the need for education funding at the one-year anniversary of the No Child Left Behnid Act [1/8/03]
WHAT BUSH SAID:
“This administration is committed to your effort. And with the support of Congress, we will continue to work to provide the resources school need to fund the era of reform.” – Bush, 1/8/03
WHAT BUSH DID:The President’s 2003 budget – the first education budget after he signed and touted the No Child Left Behind Act (NCLB) - proposed to cut NCLB programs by $90 million overall, leaving these programs more than $7 billion short of what was authorized under the bill. Bush’s 2004 budget for NCLB is just 1.9% above what he proposed in 2003 - $619 less than neded to offset inflation.
Veterans Medical Care
Bush touts the importance of veterans medical care at Walter Reed Army Hospital [1/17/03]WHAT BUSH SAID:
“Having been here and seeing the care that these troops get is comforting for me and Laura. We are -- should and must provide the best care for anybody who is willing to put their life in harm's way.” – Bush, 1/17/03
WHAT BUSH DID:Bush's visit came on the same day that his Administration announced it is immediately cutting off access to its health care system by approximately 164,000 veterans [W. Post, 1/17/03].
MedicareBush touts the need to adequately fund Medicare in Michigan [1/29/03]
WHAT BUSH SAID:
“Within that budget I proposed last night is a substantial increase in Medicare funding of $400 billion on top of what we already spend, over the next 10 years. This is a commitment that America must make to our seniors. A reformed and strengthened Medicare system, plus a healthy dosage of Medicare spending in the budget, will make us say firmly, we fulfilled our promise to the seniors of America.” – Bush, 1/29/03
WHAT BUSH DID:Under Bush’s proposal, there should be a roughly $40 billion increase in Medicare each year for a decade. However, Bush’s 2004 budget proposes just $6 billion – 85% less than what would be needed to meet his goal. Additionally, his budget would leave 67% of the total $400 billion pledge to be spent after 2008. [Bush Budget, pg. 318]
Boys & Girls Clubs
Bush about the importance of the Boys and Girls Club of America [1/30/03]WHAT BUSH SAID:
“I want to thank the Boys & Girls Clubs across the country…The Boys & Girls Club have got a grand history of helping children understand the future is bright for them, as well as any other child in America. Boys & Girls Clubs have been safe havens. They're little beacons of light for children who might not see light. And I want to thank them for their service to the
country. Part of the vision for America is that we have a mosaic of all kinds of people providing love and comfort for
people who need help.” – Bush, 1/30/03
WHAT BUSH DID:In his 2002 budget, Bush proposed eliminating all federal funding for the Boys and Girls Club of America. IN his 2003 budget, he proposed cutting the program by 15% (from $70 million down to $60 million).
please feel free to share this.
TAKE CARE !!!!
~ jim
Posted by shar on June 20, 2003, at 16:06:10
In reply to Re: Words versus Deeds » shar, posted by lil' jimi on June 20, 2003, at 13:00:34
sssiiiggghhh.
The only saving grace in all this is that Bush is not actually a Texan!
Thank you, LJ, for your kind words and compliments, it made my day.
Yellow-Dog-Democratically Yours,
Shar
This is the end of the thread.
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