![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mair on May 14, 2003, at 11:21:14
legislators, I mean? Are you sure you're not harboring them? The article I read said the Gov had dispatched the Texas Rangers to find them. What laws have they broken which would allow anyone to forcibly return them? Just really curious about this odd turn of events. Politics in my state are too boring.
Mair
Posted by noa on May 14, 2003, at 18:08:06
In reply to Where are all the Democrats - for Shar, posted by mair on May 14, 2003, at 11:21:14
I heard they were in Oklahoma!
Posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 18:47:39
In reply to Re: Where are all the Democrats - for Shar, posted by noa on May 14, 2003, at 18:08:06
I read they were in Ardmore, Oklahoma - and anyone who has heard "Roy D. Mercer" may remember a few of his crank calls that mention "Ardmore."
Listening to about five of "his" recordings is enough to get all the endorphins rolling.
Posted by noa on May 14, 2003, at 18:57:57
In reply to Re: Ardmore, OK to be exact, and . . . , posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 18:47:39
Ok, so 'splain it to us non-Texans. What in the heck is goin on in the democratic republic of Texas anyhoo?
Posted by shar on May 14, 2003, at 19:04:41
In reply to Re: Ardmore, OK to be exact, and . . . , posted by noa on May 14, 2003, at 18:57:57
Well, a few years ago there was this awful legislation coming down, and some legislators said, no way am I going to talk to my constituites (sp) about that, because it was kind of a double-bind legislation, so they hid out for a while (so no vote could be taken without a quorum or whatever), and nobody knew where they were. Except some thought they might be over at Willie's house. It was a couple of weeks or so. I'm not sure about the name origin, except I think that's when Belushi and Ackroyd were doing Killer Bees on Sat. Night Live.
I am ashamed to admit I don't know the current situation. Have we let some more go missing?
Shar
Posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 19:16:29
In reply to Re: Ardmore, OK to be exact, and . . . , posted by noa on May 14, 2003, at 18:57:57
Methinks it has something to do with splitting congressional districts. I read something about it on a news site this afternoon.
Oh yeah, something else I read while perusing news sites was an article about the upcoming lunar eclipse (5/15/03). Apparently, there's a group from Japan (called the Panawave Observatory) who believe that tomorrow is the end of the world.
So, later today, as I was unwrapping toilet paper in bulk (from Costco), roll after roll after roll, I thought "****, we have enough toilet paper to last us until the end of time" - and then, sitting there on the bathroom floor (by myself) amongst 36 rolls of toilet paper, I remembered that article about the end of the world being tomorrow, and I laughed like the madwoman that I am. If tomorrow is doomsday, no one can say I wasn't prepared with plenty of paper goods.
Posted by noa on May 14, 2003, at 23:35:56
In reply to Methinks it has something to do with . . . » noa, posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 19:16:29
Hey--as it happens, I recently bought TP in bulk, too--a whole case, because it was cheaper that way. The case sits in the trunk of the car and I just bring the rolls in as needed. I think it was 48 rolls, so I beat you! Between that and the gallons of water in the trunk, the family of teeny tiny survivalists in my trunk are all set for a long time! Don't worry, I am not going to start keeping cases of canned baked beans there.
Posted by leeran on May 15, 2003, at 2:37:46
In reply to Re: Methinks it has something to do with . . ., posted by noa on May 14, 2003, at 23:35:56
Good idea! I have run out of room for four of the paper towel rolls. That's the perfect solution - thanks!
Re: baked beans . . . I don't think a bean (baked) has ever crossed my lips. I guess I would flunk survivalist school!
Oh yeah, re: #5 on that "10 good things" thread - so true! A day without #5 can be miserable - esp. on Lexapro. When you remember that jingle I hope you'll post it here. I love little ditties like that.
Thanks again for the space saving solution!
Posted by bookgurl99 on May 16, 2003, at 1:49:01
In reply to Methinks it has something to do with . . . » noa, posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 19:16:29
> So, later today, as I was unwrapping toilet paper in bulk (from Costco), roll after roll after roll, I thought "****, we have enough toilet paper to last us until the end of time" - and then, sitting there on the bathroom floor (by myself) amongst 36 rolls of toilet paper, I remembered that article about the end of the world being tomorrow, and I laughed like the madwoman that I am.
LOL. This totally made me laugh. And reminded me that, 6 years ago, I was briefly a security guard at a paper factory that made TP!! There were HUGE roles stacked up; the fork lift drivers would stack them around and hide inside to avoid work.
I never had to buy any. :D
Posted by lil' jimi on May 16, 2003, at 10:53:25
In reply to Where are all the Democrats - for Shar, posted by mair on May 14, 2003, at 11:21:14
> legislators, I mean? Are you sure you're not harboring them? The article I read said the Gov had dispatched the Texas Rangers to find them. What laws have they broken which would allow anyone to forcibly return them? Just really curious about this odd turn of events. Politics in my state are too boring.
>
> Mairhi mair ~
i live in austin and i am all too familiar with our political situation .... it's got me considering increasing my lex dose (but this is the social board not the meds board).
texas state constitution requires a 2 thirds majority for a quorum ..... absent more than a third and no business can be done.
and it also authorizes the state to force the legistlators' return to the legistlature to attain a quorum, if need be ..... this was as likely to be to haul 'em outta whore houses and saloons back when the constitution was written. .... some thing's never change.
thanks for asking the question closest to my heart!
anything else i can clear up for you?
~ jim
Posted by mair on May 16, 2003, at 12:24:50
In reply to Re: Where are all the Democrats, she asked ? » mair, posted by lil' jimi on May 16, 2003, at 10:53:25
jim
The article I read also said that the legislators ran off because a republican legislature coupled with a republican governor had been ramrodding a bunch of legislation through and this was the only way the Dems could come up with the avoid certain bills from passing by the deadline. Has it been really that bad this year? - from your perspective of course.
Also why wouldn't the legislature just extend the deadline after the Dems get back?
Finally, why are there so many cool people from PB living in Austin? You, shar, phil that I know for certain plus the tragically departed and much missed sar?
Mair
Posted by lil' jimi on May 16, 2003, at 15:39:44
In reply to Another question » lil' jimi, posted by mair on May 16, 2003, at 12:24:50
hi mair,
thanks for your reply! ... sorry this is so long.
but first, "finally ... "
you wrote:
> Finally, why are there so many cool people from PB living in Austin? You, shar, phil that I know for certain plus the tragically departed and much missed sar?
>
> Mairi had no idea these folks came from austin! i am grateful you told me, and reminded me, that, of course, it seems appropriate that austin would be represented here .... although i wouldn't have guessed it to be represented by such revered and august company .... and tragic.
except for one thing, unlike those folks you mentioned.... i am Not cool... sorry .... {this has been our public service announcement}.
and now i know (or should have known) that knowlegeable austinites will be checking to see how i do here ... and i need that .... thanks!
> jim
>
> The article I read also said that the legislators ran off because a republican legislature coupled with a republican governor had been ramrodding a bunch of legislation through and this was the only way the Dems could come up with the avoid certain bills from passing by the deadline. Has it been really that bad this year? - from your perspective of course.
>(the legistlators are due to arrive in austin at 7 a.m.) .....
redistricting
redistricting is the where u.s. house majority leader, tom delay, drew a line in the sand and
redistricting is the reason the democrats were forced to deny the lege a quorum.there is a very long historical perspective on this, including the not-to-be-ignored 130 year reign of house democratic leadership Ending with This session of the lege.
then there are the ambitions of mr. delay to eliminate the districts of encumbent democrats .... 5 or 6 districts are to be gerrymandered into republican majority districts, including the district of my representative, lloyd doggett, who currently represents almost all of austin ...... while under delay's proposed redistricting, austin would be sliced up into 4 different districts, solely to dilute the liberal voting strength in austin.
this redistricting is to replace the redistricting that was approved by the republican attorney general, the republican governor and a 3 judge panel as legit just 2 years ago, but it just didn't give tom delay enough republican victories for him to feel comfortable enough as majority leader of the u.s. house.
the new redistricting is needed because when the voters voted they voted for too many democrats, so what tom delay's republicans could not win at the ballot box, they want to gerrymander in the state legislature.
besides this redistricting/gerrymandering fiasco ? ...... things have gone very badly indeed for the democrats because there are many very urgent issues before the lege and tom craddick placed redistricting ahead of even the state's bugetary disaster .... tom delay comes to town and all of a sudden those things are not as important to the people of the state of texas as how many votes tom gets to play with in the u.s. house of reps.
by and large, any democratic agenda in the lege has been deleted and /or ignored (and not surprisingly so), because the republicans now hold every major state office and both house of the lege and every seat of the texas supreme court..... but ...
<i have just finished washing the dishes and now i'm back ... just to reveal how this may not maintain my once-hoped-for continuity .... heh.>
.... those defeats have been tolerated by the democrats because they were to be expected given the republican majority in the texas house and senate ..... the texas house democrats did not object, in the same way as they have demonstrated to the gerrymander threat, to these massive, yet more ordinary legislative defeats (more like rude domination, given craddick's leadership style) .... draconian cuts to more desparately needed social services would be tragic enough...
... but, it was the highjacking of the whole legislative process to do the bidding for tom delay's defiantly partisan political gratification ... (along with gratifying guys like rove and card and cheney) ....
this managed to bring the house democrats together on one issue as nothing has in decades and it created more party untiy than anything else could have ..... the dems will of course go back to their usual infighting once the gerrymander threat is gone.
> Also why wouldn't the legislature just extend the deadline after the Dems get back?
>naturally, texas state government courses are part of the legislative state requirements for high school and state university degrees ... i mention this because it makes it more impressive that what goes for the state constitution is widely known for being an archaic and flawed document for effective state governance, But deliberately so, we understand .... state of texas founding fathers held a deep distrust of central authority and crafted a constitution with as many encumbrances to weilding authority as possible...
to change that date would require amending the state constitution, which would require voter approval ..... although, there have been other possibly threatening strategies suggested ... time will tell....
and you wrote:
> - from your perspective of course.
>.. ..ah, .. yeah, ... my perspective .... i suppose it shows ...
well, as Will Rogers used to say,
... " I've never been a member of an organized political party!
I've always been a Democrat!"cure mad cowboy disease, y'all!
~ jim
Posted by shar on May 16, 2003, at 21:33:39
In reply to Re: more replies » mair, posted by lil' jimi on May 16, 2003, at 15:39:44
Well, thanks, lil jimi, that is what Killer Bees was all about ... about 10 years ago; but I could not have described it with the 2/3 majority info (or whatever you said)! I no longer have my finger on the pulse of the legislature.
I know there is also the issue of legislation that has to do with cutting the Children's Insurance Program, about which one legislator (Republican) said "Well, maybe this will convince their parents to go back to their private health insurance..."
AS IF !!!!!!
Then, followed up by a legislator (Republican) who said there were churches and other agencies like that to help the kids who fell between the cracks. A lovely image, to be sure.
While, at the same time, they are approving 10 million for corporate giveaways (attract business to Texas, that would naturally be good for the Repubs), and ... oh, dang, I'm having a senior moment, another bill that was similar in nature.
If anyone wants names, I'll have to look up the article I read about it, which is at work, so it'll be Monday before I can get names for those fine figgers of politicians.
In Texas, there are yellow dog Democrats. That means we'd vote for a yellow dog if that was the only Democratic candidate. Well, I'm one of those, and the recent performance of the Texas legislature is how come.
It puts me in mind of a political cartoon I've mentioned here before. A D.C. politico-government type is being 'grilled' by the senate. The senator is saying "I thought your administration said it would not balance the budget on the back of the poor man."
The grillee replies, "Excuse me, Senator, but I believe these cuts will mainly affect women and children." Welcome to the new Texas.
Hey, Jimi, Hi from Austin!
Shar
Posted by mair on May 16, 2003, at 22:43:55
In reply to Re: more replies » mair, posted by lil' jimi on May 16, 2003, at 15:39:44
Jim
Thanks for the Texas civics lesson. I guess i had read about the redistricting controversy - I didn't realize that Mr. Delay was behind it.
It's always boggled my mind how politicians of both stripes can spend so much time on relatively unimportant matters to the exclusion of far more crucial things. My state has been trying to deal with some awful school funding problems for the last couple of years and yet the republican controlled house ate up most of last year's session trying to do away with a law that recognized gay "marriages" (civil unions). By the time they realized they weren't going to be successful, there was no time left to deal with any substantive money issues. I think the only reason they didn't try the same thing this year was that we elected a Republican Governor in the interim who said he wouldn't support any efforts to overturn the civil union legislation.
I've never been in your part of the world - I suspect that if I went there, I might feel like I was in a foreign country, Austin excepted perhaps. The politics in your state have always sounded wild too. I just have a tough time dealing with the glee with which Texas seems to mete out its death penalty and the mentality of judges who see nothing all that harmful about a death penalty handed down in a case where the defendant's attorney fell asleep during critical stages of the trial. It's not that the rest of the states are all that much more enlightened - they just maybe do a better job of keeping their injustices out of the limelight.
Thanks again for indulging my curiosity.
Mair
PS: Whatever happened to the concept of checks and balances?
Posted by lil' jimi on May 17, 2003, at 0:06:09
In reply to Re: more replies, posted by shar on May 16, 2003, at 21:33:39
hey shar ~
thank you for replying!
it is wonderful to hear from a political kindred spirit!
another yellowdog comrade-in-arms!> Well, thanks, lil jimi, that is what Killer Bees was all about ... about 10 years ago; but I could not have described it with the 2/3 majority info (or whatever you said)! I no longer have my finger on the pulse of the legislature.
>
> I know there is also the issue of legislation that has to do with cutting the Children's Insurance Program, about which one legislator (Republican) said "Well, maybe this will convince their parents to go back to their private health insurance..."
>
> AS IF !!!!!!
>
> Then, followed up by a legislator (Republican) who said there were churches and other agencies like that to help the kids who fell between the cracks. A lovely image, to be sure.
>
> While, at the same time, they are approving 10 million for corporate giveaways (attract business to Texas, that would naturally be good for the Repubs), and ... oh, dang, I'm having a senior moment, another bill that was similar in nature.
>
> If anyone wants names, I'll have to look up the article I read about it, which is at work, so it'll be Monday before I can get names for those fine figgers of politicians.
this budget deficit handed the republican ideologues their cover for declaring open season on social services, your example of the proposed cuts to the CHIPS program being among the most egregious.just what we need are these serious grim, depressing current events.... so i indulge in them and complain about it(?).
>
> In Texas, there are yellow dog Democrats. That means we'd vote for a yellow dog if that was the only Democratic candidate. Well, I'm one of those, and the recent performance of the Texas legislature is how come.
>
> It puts me in mind of a political cartoon I've mentioned here before. A D.C. politico-government type is being 'grilled' by the senate. The senator is saying "I thought your administration said it would not balance the budget on the back of the poor man."
>
> The grillee replies, "Excuse me, Senator, but I believe these cuts will mainly affect women and children." Welcome to the new Texas.
>beautifully said ..... much more tastefully to your point than my rambling diatribe... bravo!!
> Hey, Jimi, Hi from Austin!
>
> Sharhi shar ~
hello from our live music capital of the world !
~ yellowdog jimp.s. oh, and try this (it is very long!):
Fort Worth Star-TelegramParty trumps people in redistricting ploy
Linda Campbell
COMMENTARYMay 15, 2003
Once upon a time, Tom DeLay killed vermin and varmints and other disreputable critters for a living.
Now he's trying to prove that he remembers how -- by exterminating any remnants of bipartisanship in the Texas House.
Little does DeLay, the U.S. House majority leader, care if he incites a blood feud in Austin; he'd just as soon suck the Democrats dry in his lust to make himself master of the universe.
In his insatiable ambition to obliterate the two-party system, DeLay apparently expected Texas House Dems to roll over on their backs like roaches on Raid and let his water boys roar undisturbed through the Capitol with a new congressional district map.
When Democratic Texas House members hightailed it north of the Red River, it wasn't to avoid thorny problems still facing the state. It was out of exasperation that neither DeLay nor Texas House Speaker Tom Craddick would let earnest, hard-working lawmakers of both parties focus on the vital business that the Legislature ought to be spending its energy on as the session winds down.
By arm-twisting a hideous, probably illegal remap to the House floor, DeLay engaged in "an abuse of power that, at its core, evinces a fundamental distrust of voters, serving the self-interest of the political parties at the expense of the public good."
That spot-on definition of gerrymandering came from the panel of federal judges that had to draw new congressional districts for Texas in 2001 after the Legislature shirked its duty to do it after the 2000 Census.
DeLay and his supporters complain that the court's map doesn't give Republicans enough districts. After all, the GOP swept statewide offices in 2002 but managed only a 15-17 minority in congressional seats.
Well, hooey and rat poison.
Even a political scientist who advised Republican state leaders in the court case that led to the judge-made map said it contains 20 predominantly GOP districts. That voters in five Republican-dominated districts re-elected Democrats in 2002 demonstrates that those local folks care far more about constituent service than about "R" and "D" labels or about boosting Tom DeLay's political testosterone.
And if you're deluded into thinking DeLay's plan would oust Ted Kennedy-type "radicals" in favor of GOPers more in line with voters' thinking, then get real.
Rep. Charlie Stenholm, a Stamford farmer and ranking member of the Agriculture Committee, is as conservative as Democrats come -- and then some.
Rep. Chet Edwards of Waco, an Aggie, has been a budget hawk and an effective advocate for Fort Hood and military families. Plus, he's been honored as a friend of small business.
Rep. Max Sandlin of Marshall is an oil and gas man who opposes government fiscal excesses and has worked on laws to fight terrorism and improve national security.
But, by golly, in DeLay's worldview they're all cursed by the mark of the D-evil, so their districts must be reconfigured.
And state Rep. Phil King of Weatherford is just tickled to be leading the charge with a bill that plays havoc all around the state, and the heck with compactness, contiguity and communities of interest.
(King had better be getting some phenomenal perks for his district in exchange.)
Makes perfect sense to toss African-American neighborhoods of southeast Fort Worth into a district with suburban Westlake and fast-growing northwest Tarrant County.
Sure enough, Fort Worth's north side shares common concerns with Willow Park and the sprawling areas of Denton County.
Yes, indeed, let's combine a small chunk of east Fort Worth inside Loop 820 with Coppell.
Politics may be about rewriting the rules to favor your party when you're on top, but this attempt hardly promotes the overall public good.
What the party myopes refuse to acknowledge is that a huge swath of Americans -- and that includes Texans -- don't live and die by elephants and donkeys. They want government that makes sense for their lives, for their communities and for their vision of what their nation and state ought to be.
This week's antics show that the Tom DeLays of the world can only big-foot so far before they kick themselves in the shins. Problem is, the Texas House leadership let him kick all of us this time.
Linda P. Campbell is a Star-Telegram editorial writer. (817) 390-7867 lcampbell@star-telegram.com
Posted by Snoozy on May 17, 2003, at 10:47:59
In reply to Re: more replies, posted by shar on May 16, 2003, at 21:33:39
> I know there is also the issue of legislation that has to do with cutting the Children's Insurance Program, about which one legislator (Republican) said "Well, maybe this will convince their parents to go back to their private health insurance..."
Wow - if this weren't tragic for so many families, I would have to laugh at that statement. Laugh to stop from crying at any rate.
> It puts me in mind of a political cartoon I've mentioned here before. A D.C. politico-government type is being 'grilled' by the senate. The senator is saying "I thought your administration said it would not balance the budget on the back of the poor man."
>
> The grillee replies, "Excuse me, Senator, but I believe these cuts will mainly affect women and children." Welcome to the new Texas.This is great!
I enjoyed the commentary - can't remember who posted it. But the writer left out one delightful tidbit about DeLay - he consumed DDT to show that it wasn't harmful. Maybe that's the problem right there!!
Posted by lil' jimi on May 17, 2003, at 14:54:28
In reply to Re: more replies » lil' jimi, posted by mair on May 16, 2003, at 22:43:55
hi mair ...
you wrote:
> Jim
>
> Thanks for the Texas civics lesson. I guess i had read about the redistricting controversy - I didn't realize that Mr. Delay was behind it.
>i only hope it was at all helpful .... i am far from being an expert, but believe we must know our enemies, ....anyway.
> It's always boggled my mind how politicians of both stripes can spend so much time on relatively unimportant matters to the exclusion of far more crucial things. My state has been trying to deal with some awful school funding problems for the last couple of years and yet the republican controlled house ate up most of last year's session trying to do away with a law that recognized gay "marriages" (civil unions). By the time they realized they weren't going to be successful, there was no time left to deal with any substantive money issues. I think the only reason they didn't try the same thing this year was that we elected a Republican Governor in the interim who said he wouldn't support any efforts to overturn the civil union legislation.
>this is the chronic problem:
far too many chickens with their heads cut off, screaming about everybody else's morals;
far too few public servants,
drudging through the budget numbers,
working to make funding public schools equitable,
et cetera ...> I've never been in your part of the world - I suspect that if I went there, I might feel like I was in a foreign country, Austin excepted perhaps. The politics in your state have always sounded wild too. I just have a tough time dealing with the glee with which Texas seems to mete out its death penalty and the mentality of judges who see nothing all that harmful about a death penalty handed down in a case where the defendant's attorney fell asleep during critical stages of the trial. It's not that the rest of the states are all that much more enlightened - they just maybe do a better job of keeping their injustices out of the limelight.
>i have driven across a lot of our country .... for as vast as the beautiful diversity as our land is rightfully famous for, it seems to me to be getting more homogeneous by the minute, kind of like domestic globalization .... while just off the beaten path, delights of local variations await .... i remember the "eh-too-fey" (sorry, i do not know how to spell this cajum dish's name) was delicious in eunice, la .... and a 'fish sandwich' i enjoyed in a little diner in a small village in upstate Ny: the fresh just-baked, hand-sliced bread slices, barely holding an inch-thick slab of realy fresh cod .... here it would more likely be some barbecue or mexican food ..... but it is still macdonalds-walmart-target-wendys-dennys-cable-tv-et=cetera, ...pretty much anywhere you go.
i find the diversity politically and culturally show parallel variations .... except i find a lot gteater commonality among the local/ small scale / people-to-people scale socially ,
versuses more adversarial regional friction on the larger scale, like state to state.
all of which is my long way of saying, (and, yes, this is the same anthropological kind of interest we would bring to going to visiting a foreign land):
"Come on down! The folks are fine!
(you may have to ignore the ocassional redneck or bigot or pundit, sorry 'bout that!)"> Thanks again for indulging my curiosity.
>
> Mair
>Mair, it has been a pleasure and a healthy catharsis for me to vent my views here ....
> PS: Whatever happened to the concept of checks and balances?
interesting question .... in regards to ?
texas' civics?
national govt?
budget concerns? (a ?joke?... "checks", "balances" ...sorry)happy trails,
~ jim
Posted by mair on May 17, 2003, at 20:17:17
In reply to Re: more replies » mair, posted by lil' jimi on May 17, 2003, at 14:54:28
jim
any time you want to rant about politics fire away - you make it all sound pretty interesting to me.
Mair
PS; don't ever apologize for your bigots - they're everywhere frequently under different guises. I live in an area overrun with intellectual elitists who can be just as insufferable because they are so certain they're right.
Posted by lil' jimi on May 17, 2003, at 22:43:18
In reply to Re: more replies » lil' jimi, posted by mair on May 17, 2003, at 20:17:17
> jim
>
> any time you want to rant about politics fire away - you make it all sound pretty interesting to me.
>
> Mair
>
> PS; don't ever apologize for your bigots - they're everywhere frequently under different guises. I live in an area overrun with intellectual elitists who can be just as insufferable because they are so certain they're right.
hi Mair,thanks for the invite ..... i'll take you up on it soon, i'm sure.
bigots, what are you going to do with them..?
of course, i'm not really apologizing for my bigots, because their not my bigots; i wouldn't have any bigots; they're their own bigots!
(and of course i understood you meant texas' bigots .... and we got those alright.)i'm bigoted .... against bigots.
but i can't help but feel that the common dunder-headed racist is a relatively ignorant fool who poses much less of a threat than the danger from the republicans' organized, well-funded and concerted fascist efforts.
and i am very flattered that you think i make anything sound interesting. .. Thanks! ... that really means a lot to me!
keep hope alive,
~ jim
Posted by Dinah on May 18, 2003, at 13:13:56
In reply to Re: more replies » mair, posted by lil' jimi on May 17, 2003, at 22:43:18
from a republican fascist
Posted by Dinah on May 18, 2003, at 13:31:59
In reply to Re: more replies » mair, posted by lil' jimi on May 17, 2003, at 22:43:18
"concerted fascist efforts". Fascism is a popular phrase to spread around, especially with regards to republicans. But I'm not sure that it stands close scrutiny. The Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of fascism is as follows:
Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: 'fa-"shi-z&m also 'fa-"si-
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
Date: 1921
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of oppositionHow do you see that as being congruent with the basic Republican philosophy of individual rights, minimal government involvement, and free enterprise, again with minimal government involvement?
Posted by shar on May 18, 2003, at 13:52:33
In reply to Re: but as a matter of mild interest » lil' jimi, posted by Dinah on May 18, 2003, at 13:31:59
> How do you see that as being congruent with the basic Republican philosophy of individual rights, minimal government involvement, and free enterprise, again with minimal government involvement?Actions vs. words might be one way, at least in the example of Texas being discussed here. That is, the actions being taken do not dovetail very well with the basic Republican philosophy stated above, IMO as a YDD.
Shar
Posted by Dinah on May 18, 2003, at 14:18:51
In reply to Re: but as a matter of mild interest » Dinah, posted by shar on May 18, 2003, at 13:52:33
Since it is mainly Admin that I have an issue with. I find Dr. Bob's policies in this matter frankly appalling.
Posted by lil' jimi on May 18, 2003, at 14:58:59
In reply to Re: why thanks. » lil' jimi, posted by Dinah on May 18, 2003, at 13:13:56
> from a republican fascist
There have been many anti-fascist republicans ....
Lincoln ..... Barry Goldwater .... many in between.
and there have been (and still are) democrat fascists, too, to be sure! ...
no personal offense was intended.... honest.
sorry,
~ jim
Posted by lil' jimi on May 18, 2003, at 15:25:30
In reply to Re: but as a matter of mild interest » lil' jimi, posted by Dinah on May 18, 2003, at 13:31:59
hi dinah,
hope you're doing okay .... we're alright.> "concerted fascist efforts". Fascism is a popular phrase to spread around, especially with regards to republicans. But I'm not sure that it stands close scrutiny. The Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of fascism is as follows:
>
> Main Entry: fas·cism
> Pronunciation: 'fa-"shi-z&m also 'fa-"si-
> Function: noun
> Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
> Date: 1921
> 1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
>
> How do you see that as being congruent with the basic Republican philosophy of individual rights, minimal government involvement, and free enterprise, again with minimal government involvement?sorry if my partisan tone sounds too harsh .... i'll try to do better.
we agree about the definition of "fascism"....
your last paragraph above beautifully and clearly speaks to what has been the long and honorable tradition of the republican party.....for which they have historically raised the bar for the title "Loyal Opposition" .... i thought you should have included 'fical responsibility' also.
but those values are the values teddy roosevelt and barry goldwater .... they are the american values of individualism and libertarianism .....
and they are the values that bushcheney have worked against ...
....
how else can we explain that every policy initiative, legislative proposal, regulatory action of their's tries to expand government, increrase the deficit, restrict alternatives and sell the nations' natural resources?because those are very worthy values you cite .... why would this "republican" administration abandon them with such fascist determination?
i hope i wasn't too stressful for you.
~ jim
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