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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by maryhelen on May 2, 2003, at 0:22:40
I don't know how to explain this without going on too long but I'll try.
I am a school secretary. I have been off work for nearly 2 years now. I love the children, community and staff at the school I work at. I also only live 2 blocks away. When you are on Long Term Disability the job at the school will be yours for 2 years. After that you are ensured a job but you don't know where. I do not want to lose this school.
Anyway, after trying to initiate a return to work meeting for over 6 months, finally it happened yesterday. I was surprised there were 2 people from my Union there as I had not asked for representation.
As the meeting progressed I was told that the principal and 'others' had claimed that I was going home at lunchtime and drinking. I was more than stunned as I don't drink. Before I had a chance to respond the Union reps called me out of the room and told me not to say anything at this time. Then they separately called out the Insurance rep and then the Board rep. I do not know what was discussed.
I'll really try to condense this. The Union guy wanted a copy of my psychiatric records as used when I applied for LTD. I agreed, but upon reading some reports there was reference to me saying 20 years ago I had a drinking problem and also some very private issues so I sent him some and told him others were too personal. He freaked out on me, also suggested I wasn't being honest, said I could be fired, was extremely unpleasant. He said the records were too old and not relevant but when I suggested a report from my current pdoc who I have been with during the whole 2 years he said no.
At the start of this 2 year leave I attended a substance abuse program for pain medication, which I told the Union reps. about and also the Board with the applications for leave. Had the principal said at times I was overmedicated either by the pain meds or constant changes of the antidepressants, of course I would have agreed. What really bothers me is that depression has not been mentioned and that is the main reason I am off work. I also asked the rep if the 2 mangement people had copies of all my reports, he said yes. I don't even know if that is appropriate.
Your Union is supposed to back you and I don't know what to do but I think I may tell the 2 reps I do not want them at the next meetings Wednesday and speak for myself.
I don't know what to do. I just really needed to vent.
Thanks
maryhelen
Posted by Dinah on May 2, 2003, at 9:47:49
In reply to Stunned at my return to work meeting!!!, posted by maryhelen on May 2, 2003, at 0:22:40
Sounds like you need to ditch your reps and show up with your own attorney.
Good luck, and give 'em a fight.
Posted by maryhelen on May 2, 2003, at 10:13:34
In reply to Re: Stunned at my return to work meeting!!! » maryhelen, posted by Dinah on May 2, 2003, at 9:47:49
Dinah:
I hope this doesn't too sound strange but I feel honored that you answered my post. I read the posts more than I write in and have always enjoyed your honesty, wit, good sense, support and encouragement you give to everyone.
I had not asked for the Union reps to be there but I will ask them not to be there for the meeting next week. The rehab person from the insurance company suggested today 'Let's get you back to work first and then deal with this. If you blow it up now it draws so much negative attention." I think I may take his suggestion.
Thanks again Dinah
maryhelen
Posted by Greg on May 2, 2003, at 17:43:04
In reply to Stunned at my return to work meeting!!!, posted by maryhelen on May 2, 2003, at 0:22:40
Hi maryhelen,
It sure does sound like your Union reps don't have your best interests at heart. I know that unions don't carry the clout they used to, but something sounds very fishy about this whole thing. Dinah has very good advice, if you can bring your own attorney to the next meeting, do so. If that's not possible, try to at least consult with one that specializes in labor laws so that you know exactly what your rights are going into it.
I'm sorry you're having to deal with this, and I hope everything works to your best benefit. I hope you kick some serious butt! :)
Be well,
GregP.S. I like your name. My wife's name is Mary Ellen...
Posted by noa on May 2, 2003, at 17:54:12
In reply to Re: Stunned at my return to work meeting!!! » maryhelen, posted by Greg on May 2, 2003, at 17:43:04
Maryhelen,
What a nightmare!
I agree that you need your own attorney or at least legal advice. Also, try calling the local chapter of NAMI as they might have information about your rights and how these things should proceed.
If you can't afford an attorney, NAMI might also be able to refer you to an advocacy resource. If there is a law school near you, sometimes the students run a free legal clinic where they give consulations but also may take cases to represent.
I don't like the idea of the managers having your records, either.
Also, ask the insurance rep and the union, and the school administration, to provide with information about your rights and responsibilities vis a vis disability leave and reinstatement.
That is about all I know to tell you.
Take care!
Posted by Dinah on May 2, 2003, at 18:23:33
In reply to Re: Stunned at my return to work meeting!!! » Dinah, posted by maryhelen on May 2, 2003, at 10:13:34
Thanks for the kind words, Maryhelen. If you're sure you will get your job back, perhaps the insurance rep is right and you can let your work speak for you. But if there's any question about not getting your job back, I'd consult an attorney. (And I wouldn't let *anyone* have my records.)
Posted by whiterabbit on May 2, 2003, at 20:22:51
In reply to Stunned at my return to work meeting!!!, posted by maryhelen on May 2, 2003, at 0:22:40
Reading your post made me sick to my stomach. How dare anyone make accusations - at a meeting, no less - that you were sneaking home at lunchtime to drink. And in my opinion, NOBODY but a doctor or psychiatric professional should have access to your medical records. Being a Union official in no way qualifies a person to interpret medical records, and the fact that they were not interested in your current treatment or prognosis is proof enough.
I agree with everyone else that you need legal representation in this matter, and Noa's idea to contact NAMI to determine your legal rights is perfect. As far as I'm concerned, the drinking accusation is slander.
Life changes after psychiatric treatment, it sure does. This has nothing to do with anything but it's kind of a funny story: the last time I was called for jury duty, I wondered if I should admit to my psychiatric history. I decided not to say anything if I didn't have to; I figured I was as competent as the next person to debate the guilt or innocence of a purse-snatcher or car thief.
Now, the Criminal Courts Building downtown is huge, and there always at least a dozen trials going on at the same time. I sat around for 2 days with 400 other people in the jury pool, and this is the trial I was called for - to determine whether the defendent should be involuntarily committed to a mental institution
after his jail term. I couldn't believe it, out of ALL the criminal trials going on in that building!After squirming through voire dire for awhile, I finally just raised my hand and asked to approach the bench. The judge and the lawyers looked kind of startled but they told me to come on down. So I get in a huddle with the judge and the lawyers and the court reporter and I said, "I've been involuntarily committed to a mental institution a couple of times myself, is that relevant?"
Everybody's eyebrows shot up and the defense lawyer says, "It certainly is!" The prosecuter says, "Are you taking medication?" and I said yeah, and he asked if I was "stabalized" on medication and I said, "Supposedly."
The defense lawyer says, "Supposedly?" and I grinned at him. Everyone chuckled and the judge thanked me for my "candor". As you can imagine, they told me to go on home.That's life in the psychiatric lane. Oh well.
-Gracie
Posted by Willow on May 4, 2003, at 12:22:51
In reply to Re: Stunned at my return to work meeting!!!, posted by whiterabbit on May 2, 2003, at 20:22:51
MaryHelen
First, I would like to congrajulate you on having the strength and insight to get to this point. I can only imagine the journey you've been through.
I'm in Ontario, Canada, so the laws that apply up here may not concern you if you are in the States. If you have a union representing you it is difficult to get a lawyer involved, but perhaps you could get one to define your rights for you, since your union hasn't done so. Also, I think a good idea would be to write down all individual's names involved; ask for the correct spelling of their names, who they represent, which organization they work for, how they can be contacted, and most importantly who is their supervisor if you should need to reach them.
Before the next meeting, you should make notes of the past meeting for yourself. Try and concentrate on issues your employer made which concern your ability to preform your work in the future. Ask your health care providers to write a letter regarding your ablitity to preform these functions.
I had just gone through an application for disability benefits and the disability provider requested from my doctors free access to my health records, which I consented to. I was shocked when each doctor denied them even with my consent. Their explanation was their obligation was to look after my interests. There was concern over who would have access to these files in the future and how they would be interpretted by the disability.
Hang in there, and best of luck with your return to work.
Whispering Willow
ps re jury duty, i always get my gp to sign that i'm not able to preform this public service,
Posted by gabbix2 on May 4, 2003, at 13:13:26
In reply to return to work and other things ..., posted by Willow on May 4, 2003, at 12:22:51
Hi Mary Helen
I admire your strength!
I had a similar accusation directed toward me when I was working in a group home for the mentally challenged. I was, I see now, very nieve and open about my depression and medication. I happened to be taking one of the same medications as one of the clients. Eventually I was accused of taking one of the same clients pills.
It was ridiculous really, because I was the only one working there who wouldn't need to steal the medication, I had a prescription for it!
Their original prejudice kind of worked against them.
Still it was an awful, humiliating thing to go through and I felt so alone, and so stupid. I'd just never seen it coming.
I had to hire a lawyer, fortunately my Dad loaned me the money or I never would have been able to.
I did win, but ended up leaving the position as working in a team just wasn't the same after that to say the least.I learned a lot about people, but it was a lesson I really wish I hadn't had to learn.
Best of luck to you.
Posted by Willow on May 5, 2003, at 9:10:09
In reply to Re: return to work and other things ..., posted by gabbix2 on May 4, 2003, at 13:13:26
> I was accused of taking one of the same clients pills.
> It was ridiculous really, because I was the only one working there who wouldn't need to steal the medication, I had a prescription for it!
> Still it was an awful, humiliating thing to go through and I felt so alone, and so stupid. I'd just never seen it coming.
> I had to hire a lawyer,
> I learned a lot about people, but it was a lesson I really wish I hadn't had to learn.Gabbi
Perhaps if we have any character flaw, it would be that we are too trusting and then when human nature bites us it is heart breaking. I wonder if they did ever discover the true culprit or was it just human error?
I've mentioned this before but will plop it in again: My father who has schizophrenia in many ways is emotionally more mature than most of the people out there. I've had a hard time convincing him that he's not "nuts" but has an illness. On the website, PsychiatryMatters.MD, there were several articles about skin tests and others that researchers were having success with regarding being use as diagnostic tools for the illness. After showing him these, I think it gave him something to think about.
My point is if even people will theses illnesses are ignorant of the causes and mechanisms, we can't expect those that have no contact to be better educated. Yet, what is suprising about your situation is that you would think a work enviornment based in the social services field would be knowledgeable about this field of health care, considering that people are unfortunate enough to have dual diagnosises.
Well just recently I was guilty of a bias. My nine year old daughter asked (because of worry) how come I have to take so many different medications. I answered that if I exercised more I wouldn't need them. This she accepted because I do spend a good time sleeping.
BEST WISHES
Whispering Willow
Posted by maryhelen on May 5, 2003, at 11:16:59
In reply to Re: work and other things ... » gabbix2, posted by Willow on May 5, 2003, at 9:10:09
Willow:
I also live in Ontario, Canada. Unions are supposed to be very powerful and they certainly have access to lawyers and whomever else they need to get advise from and intervene. In this case though, I think the union rep was actually excited about fighting this matter and suing the principal. I certainly did not get the impression that this would in my best interest but for him to be able to showboat. Evident as he started to become really angry at me for not providing the records that he percieved were relevant to do this and by his behaviour at the meeting.
I had to take a step back and look at everything that was happening. The issue of the drinking at lunch would be very hard to prove, as I experienced, she says yes, I say no. I feel I am fighting a losing battle. Throughout that first meeting and the ensuing turmoil I had to listen to what I had not really heard.
I was assured by the Superintendent that the school was mine. He gave me the option of a few different schools to retrain at as so much has changed in two years.
The insurance rehab rep set forth a more than decent retraining schedule, of which I am agreeable, and again suggested to getting back to work should be the focus at the moment. He then gave me the cell phone number of the Superintendent, which surprised me to no end. The Superintendents, in our Board, would be next to the Director of Education. He was very positive, encourgaging and said he had spoken to the principal again and she said she only had my best interests at heart. Which nearly made me sick because I know this is not true.
I am 51 years old and will be retiring at 65. Principals do not stay at schools as long as we do, in fact she could be retiring as soon as Christmas.
I have made the decision to take the retraining, go back in August to the school I love and bite the bullet on the drinking issue unless it continues to be an issue. How I am going to work with this woman is beyond me, but I'll just have to see what happens.
The irony of all this is that I have just started a medication change. I will begin 3 hours of work this coming Monday and I really do not feel terribly capable or strong enough right now to work. I guess my mask will be the biggest one I will have to wear up to this point.
There is one more alternative and that is to stay on LTD and not go back to work but what the heck would I do with the rest of my life. Also, pride cometh before the fall is a huge issue for me right now.
By the way, I have requested not to have a second meeting and, under the circumstances, I think everyone will be agreeable to this, except the Union rep, of course.
I would like to thank everyone for your responses and please wish me luck.
maryhelen
Posted by gabbix2 on May 5, 2003, at 15:42:11
In reply to Re: work and other things ...Willow, posted by maryhelen on May 5, 2003, at 11:16:59
Thank you for such an understanding empathetic response, I actually I had those tears of relief that come from knowing someone understands.
It was such an awful thing. And the terrible thing is it didn't just hurt me but my family.
I never really recovered from that blow, My depression spiraled, and I haven't really worked since. And here I am on my poor old dad's couch.
He shouldn't have to be worried about me at his age. It breaks my heart.
Yes the culprit was found, it turned out to be my boss. She had one of the employees feed her cat while she was away, and the employee found a stash of old medications, mostly ones that were supposed to have been returned to the pharmacy.Nothing came of it. The employee mentioned it to my boss, but had her job threatened. There was no union. She took it no further.
I think sometimes I'll never learn to work in the 'real' world, not that everyone is duplicitious, and I do try to be less trusting, but how can you be on guard against something you don't understand. Its like trying to get into the head of a completely different creature.
You just don't know where the next "blow" is going to come from because you can't even get a grasp on the behaviour.
I don't know.
All i know is that really the only thing that makes "us" different is that we acknowledge our
illnesses and supposed shortcomings.Thank you for your letter
Posted by lostsailor on May 6, 2003, at 5:54:11
In reply to Re: work and other things ...Willow, posted by maryhelen on May 5, 2003, at 11:16:59
Similar situation here...while in school and after I worked in various "community Residences" for the mentally ill and others for the mentally challenged.
When I began to take meds, I approached my supervisor, and to my chagrin, was told: "well, if you must bring them, HIDE them well, as they for some silly NYS law, prohibited them to be kept with client meds. BS I found later.
So once the inevitable happened...I was taking some out for ice cream and a gentleman elected to stay home. I was just starting a 72 hour weekend marathon shift- so I had 3 days worth with me, overdosed on my meds ( in concert with his own) Great, I still feel guilt almost 7 years later and he was fine after ER supervision..
When I began to take meds, I approached my supervisor, and to my chagrin, was told: "well, if you must bring them, HIDE them well, as they for some silly NYS law, be kept with client meds.
Supervisor, DENIED that this conversation occurred, ever tafter telling me EXACTLY where to “stash” them. There were some legal matter arose later, on my part, for discrimination, it was decided---this is great--that I could dispense meds to clients as long as another staff member gave me mine. So , basically, do your work and get to back of the line for your turn.
Pdoc and I agreed that this was ludicrous and I had to leave with head hanging...
I hope your luck is better ((()))
In peace,
~tony
Posted by Willow on May 7, 2003, at 11:33:19
In reply to Re: work and other things ...Willow, posted by lostsailor on May 6, 2003, at 5:54:11
It wasn't too long ago that in some societies caretakers were thought of as witches, to be shunned or used with secrecy. The same went for people who were different in some way from the norm. Just yesterday, my nine year old saw on television a family with a disorder that caused excessive hair growth all over their body, including their faces. She commented that she wouldn't like to be like that. It would make her feel embarrassed. In my opinion, this shows that at least society is taking steps into the right direction. But how far have we come in regards to our caretakers??
They are paid less than others with similiar education and because many are paid through government funding are the first to be cut back when politics dictate. The frontline workers often are doing shift work, working longer than the standard eight hour shift, and are subjected to abuse from the ones that they are helping. Add into consideration the risks with just doing those jobs; mental burn-out, they are humans with emotions; physical injuries from numerous causes. And then there's some palliative and crisis intervention positions that are considered volunteer postings.
Not too long ago, we paid people to open doors. Workmanship from this past generation still is around, because people built with their hands. We need to slow down. Make a 30-hour workweek be able to support an individual. Consider time spent with someone in need as a valued contribution to society that is needed, not a luxury.
I'm just rambling being a daughter who's mother is a caregiver and father is one in need of care, plus falling somewhere halfway in between the two myself.
Wondering Willow
Posted by noa on May 7, 2003, at 16:31:17
In reply to Health of the caretakers ..., posted by Willow on May 7, 2003, at 11:33:19
I just had a book out from the library that you might like to see. It is called, "And Thou Shalt Honor: The Caregiver's Companion" edited by Beth Witrogen McLeod. It is the companion book to a documentary on PBS, apparently. I only browsed it but it looks like a good resource.
This is the end of the thread.
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