![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mambo on April 10, 2003, at 6:04:37
I remember when I first got ill about six years ago, I was in my last year of 10 years at the same school and spent a long time building up a great relationship with many people. Then I became depressed and suffered with anxiety, and people wondered what was going on with me, I was wondering what was going on with me!!, i totally changed into someone i did'ent want to be. And now I have a handle on what is going on in my head I feel really ashamed about how I acted and what happened to me, I feel as if I lost so much respect from everyone, and became 'the one who lost the plot' anyway that a bit of an outburst from nowhere but has anyone had any similar experiences? and does anyone feel the stigma attached to a depressive illness.
Posted by lostsailor on April 10, 2003, at 7:32:42
In reply to help with the stigma, posted by mambo on April 10, 2003, at 6:04:37
Mambo
you are stigmatized
so am I
we all are in a wayWe've been there
We're here for you now
At times we are all here for
one anotherBut, sad to say,
it won't just go away
It's even present to those
amongst those that wear
the same "scarlet letter"~tony
Posted by mambo on April 10, 2003, at 10:10:30
In reply to Re: help with the stigma, posted by lostsailor on April 10, 2003, at 7:32:42
yes tony,
I suppose you are right, thanks for the reply it is appreciated, it is quite suprising how many people who suffer from this illness, and looking back before I became ill, I couldent imagine how people could have mental problems, and I suppose that it is difficult for people who have not experienced it to understand.
Andy
Posted by lostsailor on April 10, 2003, at 10:38:49
In reply to Re: help with the stigma, posted by mambo on April 10, 2003, at 10:10:30
Posted by NikkiT2 on April 10, 2003, at 11:01:52
In reply to help with the stigma, posted by mambo on April 10, 2003, at 6:04:37
God knows how to deal with the stigma.. I am currently job hunting after being on sick for 2 years, and its a total killer. People are so interested in me until they find that bit out. But I daren't lie and then be caught out with a reference.
I've lost friends over my illess.. not they they leave me because of it, but I am so bad at getting in touch with people they finally get fed up of it being so one way. I want to get back in touch, but how to do it?? And I've gotten so fat, they'll be embarrassed to be seen with me anyway.
What can we do?? I don't think there are any answers to tell the truth...
Nikki x
Posted by leeran on April 10, 2003, at 11:44:59
In reply to help with the stigma, posted by mambo on April 10, 2003, at 6:04:37
(Sorry this is so long, but your post got me thinking and it took me forever to get to my own point - about the "de-stigmatization" of depression. You can do the Cliff Notes version of this post and just skip down to the last paragraph :-)
Just this morning, my husband mentioned "transference,” something I'm famous for.I often become irritated with the world (or the players in my world) and end up feeling guilty about that irritation, and then, I transfer that back on the people around me. It’s like “passive/aggressive” – supersized!
I don't know if this is in line with what you were referring to but I do know that I have problems with:
a) boundaries
b) filtersI have trouble setting boundaries with other people (and probably myself as well) and I really don't have very good filters in almost any situation.
A friend of mine pointed this out to me about a year ago. We were standing in line at the Tijuana border to come back to the US after she had gone there for a cosmetic procedure. It was a two-hour wait, and in that two hours we talked with a fellow (a stranger) who we really go to know quite well.
After we crossed back to the US (he was a US citizen as well) I told my friend that I felt bad about walking away from him, knowing we would probably never see him again. I mentioned the fact that he seemed lonely and that I identified with his situation (he was an only child and I am as well, so I felt this kindred spirit with this fellow). She turned to me and said "Wow, you really don't have any filters at all, do you?"
I realized at that moment that my experience with this guy had been totally different than hers and it kind of shocked me! Since then I've done some thinking about how each one of us can have profoundly different thresholds in dealing with others. We had both stood there with this guy for two hours and walked away with totally different perceptions. There wasn't anything wrong with either perception - they were just different takes.
As for this guy, I’ve thought of him now and then over the last year. He was overweight to the point that he often seemed out of breath, chain-smoked and relayed accounts of relationship problems I just re-read that and it makes it sound like he was a pain in the ass, but he truly wasn't. I could tell he was a caring person who did a lot of thinking about the world in general. Moreover, I could tell that he didn't necessarily want the two-hour wait (which was agonizing) to end because he even went as far as to invite us to breakfast the next day at a place he knew about on the ocean. We declined, but a few months later my husband and I were in that area again and decided to go to the place he recommended and it truly was of the nicest places I've ever sat down to eat breakfast. It was proof for me (once again) of how often we take something forward with us from even the briefest of human interactions.
Hell, I don't even know my point (I don't think there was one), maybe just that I can understand your point about the stigma of being "depressed." I think depression does have an impact on how we deal with other people - BUT - I think there can be (am I about to say this?) a positive side to depression . . .Depression can often bring about great creativity. I think it heightens our sensitivity - which can, at times, be dreadful - but I think that sensitivity can make us, ultimately, more caring for other people. Once you know what mental angst is all about you can empathize all the more with other runners in the human race.
What I like about this website is the opportunity to see people interacting who are obviously very in tune with their own pain (be it current or previous pain) , but who are still willing to reach out to others who are in pain. Every post (such as yours, Mambo) that delves into a subject that may have been (or still is) painful is an offering to others to examine their own feelings. I find that incredibly beautiful – and brave. There is such camaraderie here and a lot of bolstering of the human spirit via the written word.
I think there can be a stigma attached to depression but I think it can also be an experience that teaches us to be more introspective, which can lead to greater empathy for the pain of others. I’m willing to bet that what you went through has made you strong to the point that you would gladly reach out a hand to anyone battling depression – and you would do so without any strings attached, and in the end, that may be what eventually “de-stigmatizes” depression/mental illness.
Posted by WorryGirl on April 10, 2003, at 13:37:45
In reply to help with the stigma, posted by mambo on April 10, 2003, at 6:04:37
Mambo,
Yes, I understand and feel the stigma. I haven't kept in touch with most people I went to school with, but I didn't have many friends anyway. The stigma I feel is that others sense something is wrong with me, often before I have even opened my mouth. I feel devalidated as a person. Fortunately, there are enough people out there who are either open-minded and understanding or have been through mental illness themselves that we don't have to be alone.
I imagine it would be worse if you had known these people for many years, then they see the change in you and don't respond well to it. Since I have known the stigma almost my entire life I experience it differently, but it always hurts.
Posted by WorryGirl on April 10, 2003, at 13:44:32
In reply to Re: help with the stigma » mambo, posted by NikkiT2 on April 10, 2003, at 11:01:52
> God knows how to deal with the stigma.. I am currently job hunting after being on sick for 2 years, and its a total killer. People are so interested in me until they find that bit out. But I daren't lie and then be caught out with a reference.
>
> I've lost friends over my illess.. not they they leave me because of it, but I am so bad at getting in touch with people they finally get fed up of it being so one way. I want to get back in touch, but how to do it?? And I've gotten so fat, they'll be embarrassed to be seen with me anyway.
>
> What can we do?? I don't think there are any answers to tell the truth...
>
> Nikki x
Hi Nikki,
Just wanted to add: I know I don't really know you but you always come across so warmly I don't see how you could lose friends! Of course some people get ticked off when they don't hear from their friends after a year or two. It can be hard to respond, though, when your life isn't going as you think it should.As a sufferer of bulimia, please don't ever think you're too fat for anyone to be seen with. One reason I have bulimia is because of this fear. I know that I would never be unfriendly or not associate with someone who was overweight. Even though unfortunately I still occasionally dwell on my fading blooms I am so over external appearances!
Posted by mambo on April 10, 2003, at 13:58:45
In reply to Re: help with the stigma » mambo, posted by leeran on April 10, 2003, at 11:44:59
Dear leeran,
that was a truly amazing and touching message, the way you described your feelings after your encounter with the guy you met when waiting to cross the border sounded like something I have experienced many times, it sounded like you were describing my own perceptions. Depression has allowed me to see people in a way that would be very difficult to describe, it allows me to see people who may be experiencing pain very clearly.Well not so much pain, but there situation. I cant describe what I am trying to say very clearly but what you said all made total sense.
I am so sensitive to everything, which I know has it's good points, but I'd give it all up in a second given the chance. By the way I am an only child too, which is good til your about 18.
anyway thanks for the e-mail it blew me away
Andy
Posted by mambo on April 10, 2003, at 14:03:15
In reply to Re: help with the stigma » mambo, posted by NikkiT2 on April 10, 2003, at 11:01:52
Hi nikki,
It sound like your doing well in some respects when going for jobs, I am sure you can get away without telling potential employers about you medical history, I know I certainly wouldent tell them. I think it might even be illegal for them to let out information about you. I will write soon, the uni library is closing now and I've got to go
Andy
Posted by mambo on April 10, 2003, at 14:17:10
In reply to Re: help with the stigma » mambo, posted by WorryGirl on April 10, 2003, at 13:37:45
Hi there,
I know exactly what you mean about sitting down and people thinking that there is something wrong with you before you even open your mouth, I have been through that so many time, you feel so terrible when it's happened, I used to get that feeling all the time and I used to hate it, it doesent happen so often now but still happens, I always feel so outcast and isolated. It does get better though as your illness gets better, which it will.
Andy
Posted by NikkiT2 on April 10, 2003, at 14:20:59
In reply to Re: help with the stigma » NikkiT2, posted by WorryGirl on April 10, 2003, at 13:44:32
You're very sweet, thankyou.
I understand bullimia so well.. I do the binging thing, but never seem to do the purge side, so I just add and add weight. Last August I came off all my meds, and dieted so well and lost 30lbs.. I went off my diet for one weekend at the beginnig of Decemeber, and its been down hill ever since. I also went back on meds that weekend (Zyprexa and Mirtazapine) This last 2 weeks I ahve binged every day on chocolate and frosted flakes. It feels awful to know the weight I lost is now coming back again. In 5 1/2 weeks time I am flying out to visit a friend in Canada, and she has booked a spa day for the pair of us.. How can I spend time walking around in my bathing suit???? The stretch marks on my legs look red and like scars... maybe I could get away with wearing a full body wet suit!! *lol* And as she is paying for this, I don't know how to say how scared I am of it. I would sound so ungrateful.
As for my friends.. my best friend, Giles, I ahve known for so many years.. since I was about 8 on some kind of way, but we've been really good friends since I was 17, he's the only person from my home town I am in touch with. I just can't bear for him to see me so fat.. He's cool, always has been, is very handsome and has great dress sense. His wife is gorgeous, and I just feel I will be such a let down, and would ruin their style. So, I just never contact him.. I have lost his address, and don't know if he still has same mobile phone number.. and I'm scared I have lost him for ever because of this. I get birthday / christmas cards from him, but they never contain any contact details.. *sighs*
I guess I am lucky that I'm married, and I do believe my husband loves (even though after nearly 6 years together, I have only just come to believe this).
Oh, I'm rambling again!!
Nikki xx
Posted by leeran on April 10, 2003, at 15:27:22
In reply to Re: help with the stigma, posted by mambo on April 10, 2003, at 13:58:45
Andy,
I'm glad you could relate to some of what I wrote. I really took the long route around the block to get there!
I continue to be fascinated by only children. I am one - and my son is one as well.
IMO, only children can have environmental factors that put us at odds with the rest of the world, especially when we’re younger (but I do think it gets MUCH better as we get older!).
For example –
1) Oftentimes we don't learn to interact that well with other children because we're around adults so much of the time. I usually didn't feel as comfortable with people my own age as I did with adults.
2) We aren't that used to conflict with others own age. Who is there to argue with? Ourselves? Having a sibling seems as foreign to me as having an arm growing out of the top of my head. I can't imagine what it would have been like to have another person to fight with over what toy to play with, what television show to watch, etc.
3) We can become very dependent on the relationship we have with our parents or parent and if they're upset/mad at us it can seem devastating because there isn't anyone else on the "kid team."
4) I think we have a tendency to take things more personally than others do. Children with siblings may develop a tougher exterior and might be able to let things (like being teased) roll off a bit easier. I'm not saying that being a child with siblings is easier - but it's just completely different than being an only because there’s more combat zone training.
5) I think we're more likely to read things into actions/looks because we've grown up observing the subtleties of adult behaviors versus the more straightforward actions of other children. Adult actions/responses are more complex. If an adult is mad, the emotion may be displayed as a look or an attitude. If a sibling is mad, it may involve a push or a shove. I notice more and more that my son seems to be constantly "reading" my looks or zeroes in on something as subtle as a sigh. I feel bad about that sometimes, but it's just the way we're wired.
You said - "I am so sensitive to everything, which I know has its good points, but I'd give it all up in a second given the chance."Andy, I understand EXACTLY what you mean by this sentence. It would be nice to have the option of disabling the radar now and then - if for no other reason than to have some peace and quiet for a change!
It sounds like you have a profound ability to empathize with other human beings, which can be a gift and a burden. From personal experience, I think it's more of a gift than a burden.
I don't know how old you are but it sounds like you have already learned a lot about yourself, and that knowledge has made you more open to the feelings of others. If you're in your twenties (I'm guessing here) you might find that you’re starting to naturally gravitate toward other people like yourself. Finding individuals you can really connect with can be truly phenomenal. If you’re that open, then a meeting of the minds is all the more possible! Not just in personal relationships, but in professional environments as well.
Maybe we are what we eat but I think we are what we were “birth ordered.” I’ve read a few books about birth order and I now have the annoying habit of asking people their birth order.
Lee
Posted by yourshadowself on April 10, 2003, at 18:40:10
In reply to Re: help with the stigma » mambo, posted by leeran on April 10, 2003, at 15:27:22
Hi, I am new to the board, and this is my first post, but I have been reading the recent posts for about the past week, as well as some archived effexor information.
Leeran, you are very eloquent and I really appreciated and identified with your first "help with the stigma" reply.
In my opinion, however, I think that being sensitive has less to do with one's birth order, and more to do with one's mental health (current or previous.) (I have also read THE NEW BIRTH ORDER BOOK)
I am a very sensitive person and I am the youngest child. I think that most of the birth order information is true, but that children with mental illness are the exception.
I feel the need to address a few of the points you made in your second reply, (my numbers are meant to corespond with yours.)
1) I also have always been more comfortable with adults than with my peers. My friends always told me and still tell me to "stop talking to [their] mom," because often i would spend more time talking to thier parents, than to my friends. I attribute this to my introspective nature which led possibly to more maturity and greater wisdom, and I attribute my introspective nature to my depression, anxiety, and obsessive compulisve disorder.
3) As far as being devistated when your parents are upset, I believe that all sensitive children are. My older sister used to randomly hit me because she was bored, but I wouldnt hit back because my parents would be mad at us for fighting, and I wouldnt tell my parents that I was assulted, becuase they would be mad at us for fighting reguardless if i did any of the fighting at all. So the result is that i took physical and verbal abuse from my sister and kept mum about it becuase my parent's feelings were more important to me.
4) As far as having a tougher exterior becuase of sibling fighting, i disagree. I do have excellent skills at fighting with my peers, and i do attribute part of this to being sensitive to know what their weakness is, and the other part to knowing how to use it against them (and this is from having the sibling.) But I do not have a tough exterior, fighting hurts alot, and I assume it hurts all sensitive people alot.
Becuase there are two types of pain,
a) the pain that makes you stronger (like exersize) and
b) the pain that only hurts you (like breaking your legs)
And in my opinion, fighting with your peers is the breaking leg sort of pain, where just because my legs may have been broken more times than yours, it doesnt mean that it hurts any less each time they are broken, because fighting is unconstructive.5) reading into things...
My friends have also always accused me of reading into things. I attribute this to OCD and depression.And finally, all people get lonely, youngest children get lonely too, espically when your sister is always off fighting with your parents.
But once again Leeran, i identified with much of what you said, and you are refreshingly eloquent. I look forward to more of your posts in the future.
love, shadow
Posted by leeran on April 10, 2003, at 20:00:22
In reply to to the sensitive ones, posted by yourshadowself on April 10, 2003, at 18:40:10
Yourshadowself -
I hope I didn't come off as sounding like I think that only children have the corner on sensitivity.
As an only child, I can only relay my experiences based on my own reality - and now, in measure, to that of my son's reality (or the part of it that I'm made privy to).
I've met sensitive people of either gender, all ages, every birth order, and with (and without) depression and/or mental illness. In general, I think birth order can influence some behaviors but obviously there are other circumstances that can play a much larger role in forming personality.
I didn't even know what birth order was until I went to marriage counseling with my first husband and it was the first question out of the therapist's mouth. Many of his observations (based on my birth order as well as my ex-husband's) were right on target. The therapist even told me that my ultimate "mate" would have been another first-born.
As it turns out, I am remarried, to a first-born, but that had nothing to do with the attraction . . . or did it? Who knows?
On another note, I will be gnawing on this statement of yours this evening: “my friends have also always accused me of reading into things. I attribute this to OCD and depression.”
You are probably quite right about that. For me, there’s a fine line between being analytical and “anal-lytical.” I usually manage to cross over the line every single time! I never realized I was obsessive-compulsive until a few years ago but when I look back at some of the behaviors of my early childhood (all the way up until yesterday – lol) I have to shake my head (over and over and over and over again) in wonderment. As an adult I’ve tried to relive those moments in order to really examine a few of those patterns/behaviors. I now realize it had a lot to do with feeling petrified about everything, and trying to gain some kind of control over my destiny – even in first grade! Yep, definitely sounds like OCD, but I have never considered that I might have also been depressed at that age as well.
I like your user name. It sounds a bit reminiscent of Debbie Ford’s book “The Light Side of the Shadow Chasers.” Have you read that book?
Thank you for your response. I’m very new here, too – and I like the openness that exists on this board. I go through different cycles it seems. Right now I’m in the “reflective” cycle and visiting this board has helped me examine myself a bit closer than usual (mental spring cleaning).
Posted by justyourlaugh on April 10, 2003, at 20:51:53
In reply to Re: to the sensitive ones, posted by leeran on April 10, 2003, at 20:00:22
hi and welcome...
i am a "middle child" and have created 3 "middle kid"...
they are close in age,as i was...that is something to concider,as well as gender..
they are all so different,,even though,,we did everything the same..some are "brains"some are not..
they are different due to genetic construction.,
birth order,,gender,,age of parents,parential eco systems..the list never ends...
what about the theory that memories can be carried through genes..
have a great night
peace
jyl
Posted by yourshadowself on April 10, 2003, at 23:29:22
In reply to Re: to the sensitive ones, posted by leeran on April 10, 2003, at 20:00:22
"Yep, definitely sounds like OCD, but I have never considered that I might have also been depressed at that age as well. "
leeran,
By the above statement, I dont know if you think you were or were not depressed as a child... Maybe you were saying that you dont know either.My therapist told me I had OCD last october, and then when i started doing research on it, everything started making sense. At her urging, I started taking effexor in november. My compulsions subsided, and on top of that EVERYTHING (like the simple things like brushing your teeth) was easier to do. I told my therapist about it and she said that was the depression. But I do have memories of it always being hard to do simple things, even in childhood. So now, I believe that I was born with depression, OCD and anxiety.
I feel normal for the first time, and i finally understand that brushing your teeth isnt that big of a deal. (although before effexor it really was)
leeran, have you tried any meds?
Also, thanks for the compliment on my name. I got it from a book, (not The Light Side of the Shadow Chasers, but do you recommend it?) but from Look At Me, its some recent novel i picked up on a display table at barns and nobles. It wasnt painful to read, but its not that great of a book. Anyway a character in the book likes to look at people and find their shadow self in their face when they are off guard. I think there are alot of books with the shadow theme going on though...
i like you, leeran.
love, shadow
Posted by leeran on April 10, 2003, at 23:47:28
In reply to Re: to the sensitive ones » leeran, posted by justyourlaugh on April 10, 2003, at 20:51:53
Hi JYL -
Funny you should mention that . . . on the way home from dinner I casually mentioned the fact that I might have been mentally ill as early as 4 or 5 years old (after all, OCD is a mental illness, right?). This wasn't news to my husband, who is one of the few people who knows all about my weird little first grade rituals!
Anyway, we were discussing whether or not (at that age) my actions were the result of environmental factors or just written into my genome. Inheritance is a real possibility considering the carbon dating on our family "nut" tree (note, I say that to myself quite civilly, albeit with tongue in cheek, because I really am pretty fond of my quirky self and I realize I'm the sum total of all that's happened to me - in this life and all others ;-)Being an only child, and having an only child, has been kind of a guinea pig test test for me (which is why, perhaps, I try to bring some semblance of "order" to the disorder with birth order theories).
Let it be known here and now (uh oh, this is sounding a lot like a proclamation) that I have a passing interest in birth order but, unlike many other things I worry endlessly about, I am not obsessive about it (just yet!).
Ultimately, this board is part of my self-imposed twelve-step program of recovery from conspiracy theory message boards and plastic surgery forums (don't laugh, I teeter dangerously between worrying about magnetic polar shifts and having a lower face lift).
Thank you for your welcome! I was afraid I had permanently ostracized myself by touting the benefits of the Hitachi Magic Wand on the meds board.
Civilly yours (and wishing you pease as well), ;-)
Lee
Posted by leeran on April 11, 2003, at 0:15:25
In reply to Re: to the sensitive ones, posted by yourshadowself on April 10, 2003, at 23:29:22
Shadow (may I shorten your name or would that be too familiar?) -
I never thought of myself as obsessive compulsive until my husband gently mentioned it a couple of years ago. He has this great delivery that makes you feel like being obsessive compulsive might be as magnificent as winning the Nobel Peace Prize. At the time this came up I mentioned some of these little childhood habits and we both agreed that it sounded like OCD, and then we moved on to some other subject.
To be honest, I really hadn't thought about it much again until today.
I haven't formally been diagnosed as being OCD (well, my husband is a mensa, and he thinks so, so does that count? ;-) - although my psychiatrist (a new fixture in my life since January) and I might have touched on it during the five minute gap between him writing a prescription and ushering me out the door.
I have only a few moments right now but I want to say that your comments about everything being a big deal (i.e. brushing teeth, etc.) sound SO FAMILIAR TO ME!
Everything, at times, seems so overwhelming because of the effort and detail each little task seems to entail. I've always thought that was me being a frustrated perfectionist, but your words have given me real food for thought.
Re: meds, that will be another post (nothing that exciting).
Yourshadowself, I like you as well. I'm already seeing the synchronicity in having bumped into you on this board (oh no, am I reading too much into that???). I'm smiling widely. Does this mean I'm depressed or just under medicated?
More later -
Have a splendid night wherever you are,
Lee
Posted by Tabitha on April 11, 2003, at 3:09:48
In reply to Re: to the sensitive ones » justyourlaugh, posted by leeran on April 10, 2003, at 23:47:28
>
> Thank you for your welcome! I was afraid I had permanently ostracized myself by touting the benefits of the Hitachi Magic Wand on the meds board.Oh thank goodness, another believer in sex toys. I won't feel so bad about posting those links to blowfish.com.
Posted by mambo on April 11, 2003, at 8:14:43
In reply to Re: help with the stigma » mambo, posted by leeran on April 10, 2003, at 15:27:22
Hi Lee,
So many things that you said there made so much sense, I remember being totally devestated when my mother got mad at me, and yes I did spend so much time reading adults reactions as opposed to peers my own age, that soo true. I have even thought about that things recently, and starting thinking why did I experience these things? realy intense emotions depending on my mothers reactions. I often thought that I was the only one. Maybe being an only child does increase your sensitivity radar. And yes there is nothing greater than ameeting of the minds, I love it when that happens.
I have also always taken things really personally, even though before I became ill I was very outgoing and confident, at an earlier age I would take things so personally.
by the way I am 24
Andy
Posted by mambo on April 11, 2003, at 9:15:10
In reply to Re: to the sensitive ones, posted by leeran on April 10, 2003, at 20:00:22
To leeran,
As an O.C (only child) i have realised how different that your world is when growing up than it is with having sisters and brothers, I think that it changes your parents too, I think that my mother was too over protective, and thinking back she had a habit of always thinking the worst might, happen. I think that this is because an O.C becomes so precious to them. I think this kind of think definatlt effects you if you are an only child.
Andy
Posted by leeran on April 11, 2003, at 11:14:29
In reply to Re: to the sensitive ones, posted by mambo on April 11, 2003, at 9:15:10
Andy,
Yes, you are SO right!
People have always told me you can "relax" with your second child (or subsequent children). No matter how hard I try to convince myself that I'm relaxed in my parent role, I'm really not – and probably haven’t been since we brought our son home from the hospital and put him in the center of the kitchen table (in his baby seat) and said “now what?”
Many people have told me that the first child is always the trailblazer, the miner's parakeet that you are too afraid to let out of the cage. My closest “real life” friend has four children and an overabundance of serotonin (and more common sense than I'll ever hope to have). She has always been a little nervous with her oldest because he was the first to cross every bridge (whereas by the time the 2nd, 3rd and 4th came along she kind of knew the ropes).
As the mother of an O.C. (I like your acronym) I can attest to everything you have said, because, I too, live my life thinking "oh no, what if . . . "
I wish I could refrain from that kind of thinking but honestly, where my son's concerned, that overprotective mother feeling far outweighs any other emotion (other than love). Throw in a little guilt (not for anything in particular - just because it's always there as the backdrop in my life) and the result is one big neurotic, hand-wringing pain in the ass that constantly second guesses her ability to play mother.
LUCKILY, my son has a good sense of humor. I always tell him he has enough material on me to do an hour of stand-up (no one can mimic me better than he can and no one else would dare to – lol!).
Andy, your insights are very helpful. I've lived my life as an female only child but I have an impact on the life of a male only child and I really don't want to cause him any additional angst that might otherwise be avoided (yeah, right – easily said in a message box).
I'm curious . . . (and you don't have to answer). Do you feel you have a close relationship with your mother? If that's too personal I understand completely!
Regarding my relationship with my mother, growing up I always felt a combination of fear/distrust/obligation and total devotion toward her. Nowadays, the fear and distrust have dissipated (thanks to Paxil - her dosage) and she has truly emerged as someone I can really count on emotionally. This wasn't always the case because her depression was profound and unchecked for decades and really robbed her of a lot of good years. Back in those days a psychiatrist or therapist wasn't really heard of (at least not in my midwestern family) so I often played the counselor role. I really wanted to help fix what was broken, even from a very young age (5 or 6). Little did I know that 30 - 40 years later one little pill at 4:00 p.m. daily would be the best fix possible.
I remember being totally surprised (as an adult) when she described me as one of her best friends (and daughter, of course) to someone she just met. I think her fear and anxiety all those years had been masked as something I always interpreted as aloofness.
Now, I wonder if I come off the same way with my own child. Definitely something to contemplate (and work on).
I just put my son on a plane this morning to go visit his father. The parakeet's out of the cage and I'll be nervous until I know he's arrived safely.
Actually, I become very nervous about a week or two before he leaves and I suspect my sideline visits to this board have been a by-product of that nervous energy.
Thanks, Andy, for being so open about your own experience. You sound so evolved for 24 and you have given me a different perspective on the only child “experience.”
Lee
Posted by mambo on April 12, 2003, at 13:52:05
In reply to Re: to the sensitive ones » mambo, posted by leeran on April 11, 2003, at 11:14:29
Hi lee,
My mum and I have always been so close, we are much closer than anyone I have known. I doubt if you come accross the same way to your son as your mother did to you, as you say there was no help for your mother in terms of treatment for her anxiety and feelings, things are different now, even by what you have told me it is easy to tell that you recognize your feelings, you are aware of your thoughts and feeling and you consider these things.
You said you feel guilty as a backdrop to your life, I have experienced that so much, but when you look at things in perspective, there is no need for guilt, it is obvious that you are doing your best, and you sound so caring you don't need to feel that. (Easier said than done, I know!!) I suffer with depression and a lot of guilt comes with it.
You sound like you have a fantastic relationship with your son, the way you have described your feelings to me seems exactly like what my mother was like with me, and still is!!
When she worries about me I say why are you so worried, and she usually say's 'son you will never know until you have children of your own) and I think she is right.
Andy
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 14, 2003, at 16:45:40
In reply to to the sensitive ones, posted by yourshadowself on April 10, 2003, at 18:40:10
> In my opinion, however, I think that being sensitive has less to do with one's birth order, and more to do with one's mental health (current or previous.) (I have also read THE NEW BIRTH ORDER BOOK)
Welcome! I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
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