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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by noa on March 4, 2003, at 22:40:03
Yep. We got word that job cuts will happen, but other than that, we have not a clue about process or anything else. They are handling this in the most unprofessional way--during the meeting the two managers even disagreed with each other about what will happen. I kept thinking, "will you both go home and get your stories straight before you come here to tell us that one or more of us might be losing our jobs!?" Luckily, when boss gave us the news--not on the agenda of the meeting, of course--I was eating my lunch sandwich. Once I knew what was coming, I actually said to myself, I'm so glad I'm eating, because it will help me not burst into tears or otherwise explode!! One of my teammates turned beet red and said nothing, unusual for her, since she has been a valiant spokesperson for us and in many ways our voice of reason in terms of our strategy. But obviously it got to her today--I feel for her. As soon as they left, she burst into tears. I told her and the other teammate about the sandwich thought and they thought it was funny. Anyway, once we all calm down (I'm much more calm than I had been about such things, but still agitated), we will get together to figure out what we do next. The main thing that bothers me (and beleive me, there are many) is that in all of this, there has never been any statement expressing their valuing of us and our contributions, or any expression of desire on their part to have a dialog with us about whether there are any creative sollutions to keep us in the organization in any capacity, even if our jobs are cut. That hurts tremendously, especially given how closely we work with these people, and given the amount of personal investment we all feel in the organization and that the organization has already invested a lot in us and you'd think they'd want to try their best to not lose us--to try to find a place for us in some way. It makes no sense to me in terms of the interests of the organization--even though I do understand the financial interests they might have in eliminating one or more of our jobs. It also seems short sighted because there is talk of other possible changes in a year or two which would move some people more into management, opening our posititions right back up again--do they want to lose experienced people only to have to hire new ones when that happens? And it is so dismaying that we see no efforts to try to keep us in the company--I mean even if that is not in the end feasible, I'd like to see a good faith effort!
Mostly, their way of handling this is defensive in anticipation. These middle managers are put in the position of being henchmen with no real power over the decision, and they are totally unprepared for this role, and are trying their damnest to not have to feel vulnerable to our anger. Well, tough sh*t--they need to learn to deal with it if they want to be managers. And as far as the upper management goes, I see such disregard for us a colleagues and people and stupidity for the needs of the organization in the long run.
But what we must do, I believe, is get the venting out of our system and do what they cannot seem to do--try to put the dialog on the table, by sending htem a united message that our preference is to continue wiht the company in some capacity and we have ideas that could envision how this could work to everyone's advantage without added expense, and would they be willing to even engage in a converation to just explore our ideas.
Pisses me off to go "begging", of course, but the worst part is, as I said, that none of the managers have shown the grace to express any kind of investment in us, as we are invested in the betterment of the company. But I will beg if needed, especially if our little united front can do it together.
As I said, I am much calmer than I had been when the issue first surfaced a couple of months ago, but believe me, I'm angry.
Posted by bookgurl99 on March 5, 2003, at 0:28:19
In reply to Well, it's beggining to hit the fan again at work, posted by noa on March 4, 2003, at 22:40:03
Man, it is so frustrating to feel unvalued and 'replaceable' by the company you work for. And -- if you're normal -- it makes you doubt your own worthiness to others to know that somehow _your_ position is on the chopping block, while theirs isn't. (Plus, part of you is probably wondering -- does the company _need_ two managers to run a meeting? Hmm... I could see a way for them to save money right there.)
I work at a job with a fairly negative environment, similar to a factory setting in rules and culture, although it's a telecommunications setting. Sometimes the only thing that helps is the other coworkers.I think it's good that at least you have the other coworkers in all this. It sounds nice that you can tell them about the sandwich idea and have them see what's funny about it.
I think if you want the job or more, don't beg; get angry. My aunt faced a similar position years ago, and when her section was downsized (_after_ they had all been moved to a new state), she spearheaded a movement to get them all a year's worth of severance pay instead of a measly few month's. The company was so freaked out, it worked. Hopefully you guys can band together in a similar fashion.
Sorry, *hugs*
Posted by jay on March 5, 2003, at 17:45:32
In reply to Well, it's beggining to hit the fan again at work, posted by noa on March 4, 2003, at 22:40:03
I'd really suggest buying Michael Moore's book
"Downsize This!" which gives the truth behind greedy corporations, spineless managers, and a political system built for the rich. While you are at it, get "Stupid White Men" too, which is a great update on the "Fascist Patriarchy" currently in Washington, and how they support companies that exploit people for their labour, and could care-a-less about the average, middle or lower-middle class. Bush wants to turn every company in America into Enron, and he MUST be stopped. So, most can kiss their 401(k) goodbye; kiss the house (if you are lucky to own one) goodbye; kiss sending kids to college goodbye; don't even THINK about getting proper health care...etc..etc.Yes, it's GOTTA stop, period! There is an election next year, and the Bush Klan's a** has to be tossed out of the place he has stolen, in which he WASN'T even elected to.
Fight The Power,
Jay
Posted by Ritch on March 6, 2003, at 10:23:43
In reply to Re: Well, it's beggining to hit the fan again at work » noa, posted by jay on March 5, 2003, at 17:45:32
>
> I'd really suggest buying Michael Moore's book
> "Downsize This!" which gives the truth behind greedy corporations, spineless managers, and a political system built for the rich. While you are at it, get "Stupid White Men" too, which is a great update on the "Fascist Patriarchy" currently in Washington, and how they support companies that exploit people for their labour, and could care-a-less about the average, middle or lower-middle class. Bush wants to turn every company in America into Enron, and he MUST be stopped. So, most can kiss their 401(k) goodbye; kiss the house (if you are lucky to own one) goodbye; kiss sending kids to college goodbye; don't even THINK about getting proper health care...etc..etc.
>
> Yes, it's GOTTA stop, period! There is an election next year, and the Bush Klan's a** has to be tossed out of the place he has stolen, in which he WASN'T even elected to.
>
> Fight The Power,
> JayJay, I saw Michael Moore's interview on 60 Minutes a couple of weeks ago. What I find more insidious than the political shenanigans is the suppression of alternative opinions by publishers and the media in general. It was interesting that Moore mentioned that publishers didn't want to print "Stupid White Men" because it was "in a post 9-11 time and it would be inappropriate". Later a librarian got together with other librarians and hassled the publisher about it. AFter it was printed it went to #1 and made the publisher a bunch of money. Hmmm.
Posted by lostsailor on March 6, 2003, at 10:26:55
In reply to Re: Well, it's beggining to hit the fan again at work, posted by bookgurl99 on March 5, 2003, at 0:28:19
Noa,
I can imagine the stress you are feeling now. I am sure you are an asset to any company you work for. You seem such an eloquent writer and purveyor of expressions, it seems you should be able to challenge with you spoken and written word.It seems that you like ( and need…???) your job and are capable of fighting for it.
Good luck!!!!!!
~tony
Posted by NikkiT2 on March 6, 2003, at 10:51:15
In reply to Well, it's beggining to hit the fan again at work, posted by noa on March 4, 2003, at 22:40:03
Shit.. Nothing like being totally under valued at work..
Wish I had some great words of wisdom.. but hopefully you won't get affected by all the changes, and then you can start job hunting without pressure.
Nikki x
Posted by Dinah on March 6, 2003, at 11:37:22
In reply to Well, it's beggining to hit the fan again at work, posted by noa on March 4, 2003, at 22:40:03
I'm sorry, Noa. At least you knew it was coming and had time to prepare. It seems to be paying off, and you seem to be handling at as well as possible. It's nice that the workers are pulling together.
I'll be thinking of you, and hoping for the best (whatever that might be).
Posted by judy1 on March 6, 2003, at 13:17:02
In reply to Well, it's beggining to hit the fan again at work, posted by noa on March 4, 2003, at 22:40:03
I am so sorry that you're going through this- I remember I was laid off twice, once out of the blue where they lined us up in the cafeteria for a 'meeting' and told us to pack up our stuff and leave. The second time was so much worse because there was a lack of information and a group of us used to walk at lunch and imagine all these horrible scenarios. Each of these layoffs resulted in far better jobs for me and many of my co-workers, which was really difficult to conceive of when we were going through it. I guess I'm trying to say that most changes are for the better (could I get any more trite?) and I just know you'll come out of this with a better and happier job situation. wishing you all the best- judy
Posted by noa on March 6, 2003, at 17:46:07
In reply to Re: Well, it's beggining to hit the fan again at work, posted by lostsailor on March 6, 2003, at 10:26:55
> It seems that you like ( and need…???) your job
Thanks. Yes, mostly like. And most definitely NEED. I am one of those people who has no "cushion" to live on if I have to be between jobs.
Posted by noa on March 6, 2003, at 18:02:17
In reply to Re: Well, it's beggining to hit the fan again at work, posted by bookgurl99 on March 5, 2003, at 0:28:19
> And -- if you're normal -- it makes you doubt your own worthiness to others
Then I must be more normal than most people!
:0 )
>(Plus, part of you is probably wondering -- does the company _need_ two managers to run a meeting?Interesting observation. I hadn't thought of that, although clearly it caused problems, and there are definitley power struggles brewing not far beneath the surface.
I guess the reason for the 2 managers is that things are shifting around in certain ways (that leave other sectors untouched because of changing priorities, etc.) that left the organization without enough managerial layers for how things have been and will be growing. Eventually, these 2 managers won't overlap so much, as things shift around.
> I work at a job with a fairly negative environment, similar to a factory setting in rules and culture, although it's a telecommunications setting. Sometimes the only thing that helps is the other coworkers.
Glad you can have that support to deal with the bad energy!
> I think it's good that at least you have the other coworkers in all this. It sounds nice that you can tell them about the sandwich idea and have them see what's funny about it.Yep, we have a great rapport together. In fact, the woman who was crying stopped to laugh, and said she thinks we should bring ice cream sundaes for the next meeting!
>
> I think if you want the job or more, don't beg; get angry.Well, I'm already angry, but in terms of strategy, you're right, begging is not the right tactic. But knowing the players involved, I think we have a better chance of getting a good outcome if we go with proposing options than putting up a protest. After that, who knows. But I'm not sure I want to work there if they can't show some good faith to talk about creative options for us to stay somehow. That would be too much of a let down, given how closely we've worked together for several years.
>
> Sorry, *hugs*(((You too!)))
Posted by noa on March 6, 2003, at 18:09:11
In reply to Re: Well, it's beggining to hit the fan again at work » noa, posted by jay on March 5, 2003, at 17:45:32
Well, I now have a very healthy reading list, thanks!
I remember when MM's first film came out--it was a hoot! Loved the spoofs a lot. (Had to close my eyes during the rabbit lady scene, though).
I know. I must be something of an economic "multiple" myself--there is a socialist "alter" in there somewhere!
Read in the paper today that at least one state has rejected what would have been a very greedy and harmful sale of a major nonprofit insurance comany to a company that would convert it to for profit. I think they had negotiated astronomical bonuses for the officers of the nonprofit if the deal would go through. But score one for the people--the deal was cabashed!
Posted by noa on March 6, 2003, at 18:10:17
In reply to Re: Well, it's beggining to hit the fan again at work » noa, posted by NikkiT2 on March 6, 2003, at 10:51:15
Posted by noa on March 6, 2003, at 18:10:53
In reply to Re: Well, it's beggining to hit the fan again at work » noa, posted by Dinah on March 6, 2003, at 11:37:22
Posted by noa on March 6, 2003, at 18:12:14
In reply to Re: Well, it's beggining to hit the fan again at work » noa, posted by judy1 on March 6, 2003, at 13:17:02
Thanks, Judy. You may be right. Reminds me of the book, "Who Ate My Cheese?". Ever read it?
Posted by noa on March 6, 2003, at 18:15:22
In reply to Re: Well, it's beggining to hit the fan again at work, posted by noa on March 6, 2003, at 18:12:14
Oops. I must be hungry, because it isn't Who ATE my Cheese? but "Who Moved My Cheese?"
Posted by noa on March 6, 2003, at 18:16:10
In reply to Re: Well, it's beggining to hit the fan again at work » noa, posted by judy1 on March 6, 2003, at 13:17:02
This is the end of the thread.
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