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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fachad on February 8, 2003, at 23:53:38
This is picking up a thread over on the med board:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030130/msgs/138954.html
on anhedonia.
I have come across a few really good descriptions of anhedonia in literature. One that really resonated with my experience was from H.P. Lovecraft's "The Silver Key". Here is a snippet from that story. The full story is available at
http://www.gizmology.net/lovecraft/works/silverkey.htm
The Silver Key
"When Randolph Carter was thirty he lost the key of the gate of dreams. Prior to that time he had made up for the prosiness of life by nightly excursions to strange and ancient cities beyond space, and lovely, unbelievable garden lands across ethereal seas; but as middle age hardened upon him he felt those liberties slipping away little by little, until at last he was cut off altogether..."
"He had read much of things as they are, and talked with too many people. Well-meaning philosophers had taught him to look into the logical relations of things, and analyse the processes which shaped his thoughts and fancies."
"Wonder had gone away, and he had forgotten that all life is only a set of pictures in the brain, among which there is no difference betwixt those born of real things and those born of inward dreamings, and no cause to value the one above the other. Custom had dinned into his ears a superstitious reverence for that which tangibly and physically exists, and had made him secretly ashamed to dwell in visions."
"Wise men told him his simple fancies were inane and childish, and even more absurd because their actors persist in fancying them full of meaning and purpose as the blind cosmos grinds aimlessly on from nothing to something and from something back to nothing again, neither heeding nor knowing the wishes or existence of the minds that flicker for a second now and then in the darkness."
Does this resonate with anyone else's experience? Has anyone else found things in literature that express their experience of depression?
Posted by fachad on February 9, 2003, at 0:07:05
In reply to Anhedonia in Literature and Culture, posted by fachad on February 8, 2003, at 23:53:38
Another vivid description of depression that was one of the first I ever related to is Black Sabbath's "Paranoid":
"All day long I think of things but nothing seems to satisfy,
Think I'll lose my mind if I don't find something to pacify"...Yep, that's the restless, disphoric boredom. I've got that...
"I need someone to show me the things in life that I can't find,
I can't see the things that make true happiness, I must be blind"...That feeling that everyone else is in on a secret, that somehow their lives are better than mine - am I unhappy because I'm missing something really obvious...
"Make a joke and I will sigh and you will laugh and I will cry
Happiness I can not feel and love to me is so unreal"Well, I don't feel that despondent now, but I did at one time, and I still do at times, for brief periods. I am still amazed at how vivid that song is, both in the lyrics and in the way they put those feelings of resignation and desperation into the music.
Posted by LAURA777 on February 9, 2003, at 7:28:03
In reply to Re: Anhedonia in Rock Lyrics, posted by fachad on February 9, 2003, at 0:07:05
Bravo my man on both posts....
i spend much of my time musing and wondering about the intangible , it is interesting .. i have tried to read books about quantum physics and blackholes but i get lost .. i keep wishing that i knew someone who can possible give me some time and explain it , because this fasinates me as well ..i have only read about 9 works of socrates , and i only read thru them once .. but i enjoyed them.. especially the one on piety .. He seemed like a very interesting man, someone that i would like to hang out with .. i can't find many people who like this sort of stuff . i find the majority do not like to think on these lines , except my therapist ..
Do you find this to be true about people ???
your posts on the religion forum , made me laugh histerically ... truly funny .. sartre's cookbook .. and also the one about materialistic reductionisim .. the author encouraged you to think in terms of the intangible .. do i have this right ???? i would like to read that book.. but i have spent alot of my time reading years , and it gets old .. i find my self stagnant .. it is just awful ... reading and thinking are just one part of life , my trouble i think is not being able to grasp the lighter side ..
Any thoughts ???
thanks , laura
Posted by fachad on February 9, 2003, at 16:29:58
In reply to Re: Anhedonia in Rock Lyrics » fachad, posted by LAURA777 on February 9, 2003, at 7:28:03
> Bravo my man on both posts....
Thanks. I come across these amazing things and I've always wanted to share them with people who understand (most definitely don't).
> i spend much of my time musing and wondering about the intangible , it is interesting ... <snip>...Any thoughts ???
Whoa! You said a lot there. I'm going to take a bit of time and compose a thoughtful reply to those questions...
In the meantime, I'll post another HPL piece that's always been a favorite of mine.
-fachad
Posted by fachad on February 9, 2003, at 16:31:03
In reply to Anhedonia in Literature and Culture, posted by fachad on February 8, 2003, at 23:53:38
Here's another one from HPL. This short prose piece has always been one of my favorites. As I re-read it last night the refernce to the drearyness of life and opiate peace reminded me of your original posts on PSB.
The first time I read this it just amazed me. Rather than babeling any more, I'll just post the piece.
Ex Oblivione
by H. P. LovecraftWhen the last days were upon me, and the ugly trifles of existence began to drive me to madness like the small drops of water that torturers let fall ceaselessly upon one spot of their victims body, I loved the irradiate refuge of sleep. In my dreams I found a little of the beauty I had vainly sought in life, and wandered through old gardens and enchanted woods.
Once when the wind was soft and scented I heard the south calling, and sailed endlessly and languorously under strange stars.
Once when the gentle rain fell I glided in a barge down a sunless stream under the earth till I reached another world of purple twilight, iridescent arbours, and undying roses.
And once I walked through a golden valley that led to shadowy groves and ruins, and ended in a mighty wall green with antique vines, and pierced by a little gate of bronze.
Many times I walked through that valley, and longer and longer would I pause in the spectral half-light where the giant trees squirmed and twisted grotesquely, and the grey ground stretched damply from trunk to trunk, some times disclosing the mould-stained stones of buried temples. And alway the goal of my fancies was the mighty vine-grown wall with the little gate of bronze therein.
After a while, as the days of waking became less and less bearable from their greyness and sameness, I would often drift in opiate peace through the valley and the shadowy groves, and wonder how I might seize them for my eternal dwelling-place, so that I need no more crawl back to a dull world stript of interest and new colours. And as I looked upon the little gate in the mighty wall, I felt that beyond it lay a dream-country from which, once it was entered, there would be no return.
So each night in sleep I strove to find the hidden latch of the gate in the ivied antique wall, though it was exceedingly well hidden. And I would tell myself that the realm beyond the wall was not more lasting merely, but more lovely and radiant as well.
Then one night in the dream-city of Zakarion I found a yellowed papyrus filled with the thoughts of dream-sages who dwelt of old in that city, and who were too wise ever to be born in the waking world. Therein were written many things concerning the world of dream, and among them was lore of a golden valley and a sacred grove with temples, and a high wall pierced by a little bronze gate. When I saw this lore, I knew that it touched on the scenes I had haunted, and I therefore read long in the yellowed papyrus.
Some of the dream-sages wrote gorgeously of the wonders beyond the irrepassable gate, but others told of horror and disappointment. I knew not which to believe, yet longed more and more to cross for ever into the unknown land; for doubt and secrecy are the lure of lures, and no new horror can be more terrible than the daily torture of the commonplace. So when I learned of the drug which would unlock the gate and drive me through, I resolved to take it when next I awaked.
Last night I swallowed the drug and floated dreamily into the golden valley and the shadowy groves; and when I came this time to the antique wall, I saw that the small gate of bronze was ajar. From beyond came a glow that weirdly lit the giant twisted trees and the tops of the buried temples, and I drifted on songfully, expectant of the glories of the land from whence I should never return.
But as the gate swung wider and the sorcery of the drug and the dream pushed me through, I knew that all sights and glories were at an end; for in that new realm was neither land nor sea, but only the white void of unpeopled and illimitable space. So, happier than I had ever dared hope to be, I dissolved again into that native infinity of crystal oblivion from which the daemon Life had called me for one brief and desolate hour.
*****************************************
Posted by LAURA777 on February 9, 2003, at 17:07:21
In reply to LAURA777 - Days of Sameness and Opiate Peace, posted by fachad on February 9, 2003, at 16:31:03
hey fachad , i could be that guy !!! it was beautiful . i love stuff that is well written ..
did you see this post .. i would like your thoughts .. on the biological end
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030208/msgs/140277.html
Posted by trouble on February 10, 2003, at 2:22:37
In reply to Re: Anhedonia in Rock Lyrics, posted by fachad on February 9, 2003, at 0:07:05
> Another vivid description of depression that was one of the first I ever related to is Black Sabbath's "Paranoid":
>
> "All day long I think of things but nothing seems to satisfy,
> Think I'll lose my mind if I don't find something to pacify"
>
> ...Yep, that's the restless, disphoric boredom. I've got that...
>
> "I need someone to show me the things in life that I can't find,
> I can't see the things that make true happiness, I must be blind"
>
> ...That feeling that everyone else is in on a secret, that somehow their lives are better than mine - am I unhappy because I'm missing something really obvious...
>
> "Make a joke and I will sigh and you will laugh and I will cry
> Happiness I can not feel and love to me is so unreal"
>
> Well, I don't feel that despondent now, but I did at one time, and I still do at times, for brief periods. I am still amazed at how vivid that song is, both in the lyrics and in the way they put those feelings of resignation and desperation into the music.
hey fachard, meet my bard:
http://troublewaits.com/markeitzellyricshodgepodge.htm
Posted by trouble on February 10, 2003, at 3:37:24
In reply to Re: Anhedonia in Rock Lyrics, posted by trouble on February 10, 2003, at 2:22:37
Posted by not exactly on February 10, 2003, at 13:22:58
In reply to Anhedonia in Literature and Culture, posted by fachad on February 8, 2003, at 23:53:38
> Does this resonate with anyone else's experience?
Most definitely! Upon reading that quotation, I burst into tears. Afterwards, "reality" seemed a bit more forgiving. Thank you for sharing that...
- Bob
Posted by not exactly on February 10, 2003, at 13:39:53
In reply to Re: Anhedonia in Rock Lyrics, posted by fachad on February 9, 2003, at 0:07:05
and let's not forget the classic:
"(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction"
by the Rolling StonesWhen I'm ridin' round the world
And I'm doin' this and I'm signing that
And I'm tryin' to make some girl
Who tells me "Baby, better come back later next week"
'Cause you see I'm on losing streak
I can't get no, oh no-no-no
Hey-hey-hey, that's what I say
I can't get no, I can't get no
I can't get no satisfaction
No satisfaction,
No satisfaction,
No satisfaction...
Posted by not exactly on February 10, 2003, at 13:43:41
In reply to Re: LAURA777 - Days of Sameness and Opiate Peace » fachad, posted by LAURA777 on February 9, 2003, at 17:07:21
Laura,
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030208/msgs/140277.html
I clicked on that link, but the Dr-Bob server couldn't find the post. What was it about?
- Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2003, at 16:31:36
In reply to broken link » LAURA777, posted by not exactly on February 10, 2003, at 13:43:41
> I clicked on that link, but the Dr-Bob server couldn't find the post.
Sorry, it may have been a duplicate of:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030208/msgs/140276.html
Bob
Posted by LAURA777 on February 10, 2003, at 17:17:36
In reply to broken link » LAURA777, posted by not exactly on February 10, 2003, at 13:43:41
> Laura,
>
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030208/msgs/140277.html
>
> I clicked on that link, but the Dr-Bob server couldn't find the post. What was it about?
>
hey bob here it is ,, i think ? it was a message i sent to you originally that i wanted fachad to see .. thanks , laura
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030208/msgs/140275.html
Posted by noa on February 10, 2003, at 18:40:11
In reply to Anhedonia in Literature and Culture, posted by fachad on February 8, 2003, at 23:53:38
How about Chekhov? Some of his (anti) heroes are bored, lost, lacking passion, see life passing them by, can't get motivated, etc. His work still contains a lot of romantic era imagery (nature, animals, etc. etc.), but he detaches all his characters from the passion that had gone with the imagery in preceding lit. I think the lit. term used is "ennui" but when I read it it seems rather apathetic and anhedonic to me.
Posted by fachad on February 11, 2003, at 19:11:07
In reply to Re: Anhedonia in Rock Lyrics, posted by trouble on February 10, 2003, at 2:22:37
> hey fachard, meet my bard:
> http://troublewaits.com/markeitzellyricshodgepodge.htmI had never heard of Mark Eitzel before - I'm going to see if I can find some downloadable samples.
Thanks for the link.
Posted by fachad on February 11, 2003, at 19:18:25
In reply to Re: Anhedonia in Literature and Culture » fachad, posted by not exactly on February 10, 2003, at 13:22:58
>Upon reading that quotation, I burst into tears. Afterwards, "reality" seemed a bit more forgiving.
Yeah, the first time I read that I was just awed that someone had felt that way, and thought about it that way...that story really impressed me and started me on a Lovecraft kick that has waxed and waned, but been a part of my life for years.
Did you see the other HPL piece I posted called "Ex Oblivione"?
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030208/msgs/36729.html
That one really sets my head spinning, even after having read it hundreds of times...
Posted by fachad on February 11, 2003, at 19:20:25
In reply to Re: broken link » not exactly, posted by LAURA777 on February 10, 2003, at 17:17:36
I did see it and tried to post a response here, but it ended up over in Psycho-Babble; I think because I used the "post response" link.
> > Laura,
> >
> > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030208/msgs/140277.html
> >
> > I clicked on that link, but the Dr-Bob server couldn't find the post. What was it about?
> >
> hey bob here it is ,, i think ? it was a message i sent to you originally that i wanted fachad to see .. thanks , laura
>
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030208/msgs/140275.html
>
>
>
Posted by fachad on February 11, 2003, at 19:30:54
In reply to Re: Anhedonia in Literature and Culture, posted by noa on February 10, 2003, at 18:40:11
> How about Chekhov?
I've never read any of his works. So many books, so little time...
>I think the lit. term used is "ennui" but when I read it it seems rather apathetic and anhedonic to me.
I've always been fond of the term "ennui", but a modern pdoc would probably throw you out of his office for saying it.
Other verboten terms include "angst", "archetype"...all the way through to "unconscious" and "zeitgeist". Psychiatry sure ain't what it used to be.
Posted by not exactly on February 12, 2003, at 3:19:36
In reply to LAURA777 - Days of Sameness and Opiate Peace, posted by fachad on February 9, 2003, at 16:31:03
For some reason, I'm reminded of the movie "Brazil". For those that have never seen it, it would be impossible to explain here why I thought it was relevant. For those that have, I suspect any further explanation is unnecessary.
- Bob
Posted by LAURA777 on February 28, 2003, at 13:49:06
In reply to Re: Anhedonia in Rock Lyrics » trouble, posted by fachad on February 11, 2003, at 19:11:07
here is a good rendition of my depression :
And outside, the sky is falling
People dodging raindrops, staying dry
And inside, I never gave a damn about those outside people anyway
And it hurt me
They don't even know who I amAnd inside, there’s no rainbows
And inside, I try I try I try, try to clear my head
And outside, the rain is drying
And inside, I'm dying'Cause in here, I’m staring at the rings my coffee cup has made on the table
And in here, I know I know I know, that this is as good as it gets
And in time I hope to be the one that talks about the other half
Until then, I count the cracks on the wall
Until it’s time to lay my headAnd inside, I play with shadows
And inside, I know I know I know, that I'll feel this way all day, all day
And outside, there’s hope for trying, and inside I’m dyingYou walk before me, lord knows I can’t follow
You walk behind me and I don’t think I can lead
You walk around me, please don’t walk around me
'Cause you know how dizzy I get
This is the end of the thread.
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