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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Kar on December 16, 2002, at 23:23:02
In reply to Re: You thought you post was long? Ha!, posted by Peter S. on December 16, 2002, at 16:07:24
Hey Peter- you're a goof! Oh boy...Gemini...dare I even reply to your message?
>I'm on almost exactly the same combo as you!
Wow, that's bizarre. ok, we're on a board of people on psychoactive drugs, but it's still bizarre. I was on Neuron. too at one time in my long and impressive ("robust" as my pdoc says...??) history.Do you work? Why'd you end up on Tri AND Lamic? Were you on tegretol before? Wow, I was on Teg for like 15 years and once I got onto trileptal I could actually retrieve words again. What a difference.
Wait a minute, are we still being "social"? I wouldn't want to be sent over there...
Prozac
How much are you on, how long did it take to work? Do you get hypomania at all?>been the major support for all the drug companies the last couple of years,
oh ho, there...it depends on how old you are! I bet I could give you a run for your money! And I bet you've never been on the "Pill"! Gotcha!
Ok, I suppose you could argue that it's not psychoactive but it can be used for that...>I tend to cycle every 3 or 4 days.
Man! You never get more than that? That really bites. What happened with the other ADs you've been on? Going back on Prozac, for me, is like going back to the beginning, but now that I have 2 MS on board, it seems different. I just don't trust anythiong anymore. Not depressive negativity, just realism unfortunately...>90% of my life in the depressed state.
How have things changed over the years?
>
>sensitive for whatever reason which, in my case, has been a curse.How come? I love a sensitive man...mine is sensitive but not "depressed sensitive" and it's so refreshing.
>more peaceful place have been highly sensitive.
I agree. And you put it rather eloquently. Wait a minute- that was sensitive of you! Sorry...
>Right now though I long to be insensitive!
Oh we can work on that!Hang in there,
Karen
> Peter
>
>
Posted by Peter S. on December 17, 2002, at 16:58:55
In reply to To the sensitive guy... » Peter S., posted by Kar on December 16, 2002, at 23:23:02
Hey Karen
I'm glad you like sensitive guys and glad you found one! I really think a certain degree of sensitivity is great, but it can be a real drag if you mix it with depressive tendencies (as in my case). When I'm depressed my self esteem sinks into a pit- I find it very difficult to relate to women in this state.
>Why'd you end up on Tri AND Lamic? Were you on tegretol before?
Never been on tegretol. I ended up trying Lam because everything else wasn't working and was leading to cycling. Lam worked great-then faded.
Do you work?
Currently looking and it's driving me slowly but surely over the edge-I'm out of money! I've got a second interview on Thursday for a job that I want and I'm on pins and needles.
> Prozac How much are you on, how long did it take to work? Do you get hypomania at all?Now on 20mg but it is causing cycling- not really hypomania- to tell you the truth I'm not sure whether I get hypomania or I just have a "normal" mood- whatever that is. I've never gone on shopping binges or anything.
>> >I tend to cycle every 3 or 4 days.
> Man! You never get more than that? That really bites. What happened with the other ADs you've been on?They either didn't work or caused cycling.
> >90% of my life in the depressed state.
> How have things changed over the years?Since discovering anti-depressants I've been cycling a lot more I guess which is better than being depressed all the time.
Anyway, glad your combo seems to be working- I'm dropping the trileptal because it's been making me feel horrible.
As for my sensitivity- I think a lobotomy might fix it. I'm going to try and go down to Mexico and get me one.
Cheers,
Peter
Posted by Kar on December 17, 2002, at 23:47:22
In reply to Re: To the sensitive guy..., posted by Peter S. on December 17, 2002, at 16:58:55
>I find it very difficult to relate to women in this state.
I can relate to that...>Lam worked great-then faded.
THe dreaded fade-effect. I asked my pdoc why and he just tells me that I'm "subtherapeutic". It's b.s.>driving me slowly but surely over the edge-
Ok, not surely. There's a guard rail , I'm sure, and it'll bounce you back onto the road. then you'll be shaken but will make it safely home.
You'll be in my thoughts...I've got a second interview
OMG, it's coming up, huh? Good for you for getting out there. I can't do it yet. Too inconsistent. You go!
>
>hypomania or I just have a "normal" mood
Same here. Been good for a whole 1 week but wonder...where are we headed from here? So tiring, so frustrating.>I've never gone on shopping binges or anything.
Me at 16, Macy's with Mom's charge card...$600 or so. Days long gone but I still like to shop (wisely now! :))> Anyway, glad your combo seems to be working- Thanks but I'm only tapping on wood because it's too soon to knock. jeez, you'd think with 3 (well know 2)ms on board your cycling would be more under control. Damn!
>think a lobotomy might fix it
But then you'd lose your sense of humor too! mr. flat affect! There must be another way!!! How 'bout just a transplant like in Young Frankenstein?. I could go with you...
Good luck with the interview!
Posted by Peter S. on December 18, 2002, at 15:08:32
In reply to Lobotomy Schmotomy » Peter S., posted by Kar on December 17, 2002, at 23:47:22
Karen,
Thanks very much for the support!
I may just put off the lobotomy. I can't really afford it right now anyway. I may try to apply for a government grant or financial aid later. I could make it into a research project- of course after the procedure I'd have to have someone complete the write-up for me since I'll probably be a little impaired.
> >I find it very difficult to relate to women in this state.
> I can relate to that...
>
> >Lam worked great-then faded.
> THe dreaded fade-effect. I asked my pdoc why and he just tells me that I'm "subtherapeutic". It's b.s.
>
> >driving me slowly but surely over the edge-
> Ok, not surely. There's a guard rail , I'm sure, and it'll bounce you back onto the road. then you'll be shaken but will make it safely home.
> You'll be in my thoughts...
>
> I've got a second interview
> OMG, it's coming up, huh? Good for you for getting out there. I can't do it yet. Too inconsistent. You go!
> >
> >hypomania or I just have a "normal" mood
> Same here. Been good for a whole 1 week but wonder...where are we headed from here? So tiring, so frustrating.
>
> >I've never gone on shopping binges or anything.
> Me at 16, Macy's with Mom's charge card...$600 or so. Days long gone but I still like to shop (wisely now! :))
>
> > Anyway, glad your combo seems to be working- Thanks but I'm only tapping on wood because it's too soon to knock. jeez, you'd think with 3 (well know 2)ms on board your cycling would be more under control. Damn!
>
> >think a lobotomy might fix it
> But then you'd lose your sense of humor too! mr. flat affect! There must be another way!!! How 'bout just a transplant like in Young Frankenstein?. I could go with you...
> Good luck with the interview!
>
>
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 18, 2002, at 17:04:40
In reply to Re: Lobotomy Schmotomy, posted by Peter S. on December 18, 2002, at 15:08:32
Peter although I agree with Kar, if you do decide to go ahead and do the deed... Don't go to MEXICO or any discount LOBOTOMY SURGEONS.
My ex-fiancee did that before we moved in together, and it only partially worked.
He was wayyyy more stupid, but just as grouchy as ever :(
Seriously though
good luck on the interview.
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 18, 2002, at 17:15:54
In reply to Re: Lobotomy Schmotomy, posted by Peter S. on December 18, 2002, at 15:08:32
Peter I do agree with Karla,
however in case you do decide to give in,
DON'T go to Mexico, or ANY BACK ALLY SURGEONS>Take it from one who knows.
My former fiancee did that at my behest because we were going to move in together and he was kind of an ass. It worked but only part way, he got waYYYY more stupid, but was just as cranky as ever.uh oh, I'm now vorried and vundering if yoking about lobotomies is verboten.
Dr. Bob
I started a new medication, sorry,
its true, I really did, Wellbutrin and I'm a bit buzzedSincerely
Oh geez who am I posting as?oh yeah
Gabbix2(a very sorry joke)
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 18, 2002, at 17:18:06
In reply to Re: Lobotomy Advice, posted by Gabbix2 on December 18, 2002, at 17:15:54
I did reload the page and my post was NOT there
so I re wrote it.
Posted by Dinah on December 18, 2002, at 18:17:38
In reply to Re: Lobotomy Advice, posted by Gabbix2 on December 18, 2002, at 17:15:54
Just make sure you monitor yourself, Gabbi. I did every bit as badly on Wellbutrin as Effexor. Not to say you won't have a great experience, but given your reaction to Effexor, it might be wise to have your roommate keep an eye on you.
An ever-cautious,
Dinah
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 18, 2002, at 18:55:04
In reply to Egads! Be careful! » Gabbix2, posted by Dinah on December 18, 2002, at 18:17:38
Thanks Dinah,
I'm already cutting back, it reminds me an awful lot of Effexor which makes perfect sense to a lay-person like me, but not my DR.
It does increase noripinephrine and dopamine
the Paxil incrases serotonin, add that together and it theoretically could be EFFEXOR!I've advised my roomates.
You know, I don't much like this.
Thanks Dinah.
Posted by Dinah on December 18, 2002, at 21:33:11
In reply to Re: Egads! Be careful! » Dinah, posted by Gabbix2 on December 18, 2002, at 18:55:04
I think pdocs need their heads examined. Mine put me on Effexor after a disastrous Wellbutrin/Luvox experience. I even questioned the wisdom of it.
I'm glad you're taking care of yourself, Gabbi. It's a shame that we have to, isn't it?
Posted by utopizen on December 25, 2002, at 23:28:19
In reply to Re: Tsk Tsk Tsk » Gabbix2, posted by Dinah on December 18, 2002, at 21:33:11
I want a lobotomy, I always did- how much do they go for? I hope my insurance could pay for it. I have some mild social anxiety and I pace around sometimes when I'm bored. Maybe a lobotomy would work on me. Speaking of which, anyone else pace? It really doesn't set me far apart from an Asperger's person, only I have a high degree of insight into others (which isn't helping my social anxiety).
Posted by Ritch on December 27, 2002, at 14:15:48
In reply to How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by utopizen on December 25, 2002, at 23:28:19
> I want a lobotomy, I always did- how much do they go for? I hope my insurance could pay for it. I have some mild social anxiety and I pace around sometimes when I'm bored. Maybe a lobotomy would work on me. Speaking of which, anyone else pace? It really doesn't set me far apart from an Asperger's person, only I have a high degree of insight into others (which isn't helping my social anxiety).
I think that only the government knows for sure how much a lobotomy costs (Now I've got Ramones music playing in my head). I doubt if insurance would cover it, and if they did it would probably be easy to find out how much :) Pacing? Yeah, I am a pacer. I've got the taut leg musculature of a feral cat! I think I burn a few thousand calories a week doing precisely that. When I was going to school and had to sit down (and be captive) that translated into restless legs and fidgeting and pencil tapping, chewing, etc. Do Asperger folks pace a bunch? I hadn't heard of that. .. .. .. ..
Posted by Peter S. on December 27, 2002, at 15:42:28
In reply to How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by utopizen on December 25, 2002, at 23:28:19
As far as I know lobotomies are ancient history. They used to do them with violent psychotic patients but have long been considered extremely inhumane and have been outlawed (I believe). They generally result in a state of permanent psychic deadness and cognitive impairment.
Have you seen a psychiatrist?
> I want a lobotomy, I always did- how much do they go for? I hope my insurance could pay for it. I have some mild social anxiety and I pace around sometimes when I'm bored. Maybe a lobotomy would work on me. Speaking of which, anyone else pace? It really doesn't set me far apart from an Asperger's person, only I have a high degree of insight into others (which isn't helping my social anxiety).
Posted by Peter S. on December 27, 2002, at 15:44:45
In reply to How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by utopizen on December 25, 2002, at 23:28:19
maybe?
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 27, 2002, at 15:55:29
In reply to Re: How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by Ritch on December 27, 2002, at 14:15:48
Did you know the first lobotomy's were done with ice-picks? and not very long ago either.
Horrifying yes, but somehow to those of us handing our brains over to 'professionals'on a regular basis probably not all that surprising.
I didn't mean that to sound down on all 'profesionals' at all it just seems that depression and doing our own research
renders one fairly shock proof.. no pun intended.
Posted by dreamerz on December 27, 2002, at 16:51:37
In reply to Re: How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by Gabbix2 on December 27, 2002, at 15:55:29
Ice pick , messy , owwtch ,skull would be kaput . Think I'd prefer a drill - more clean just block the hole with a suitable peg...or the handy hole could be useful.
Posted by Tabitha on December 27, 2002, at 19:34:16
In reply to Re: How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by dreamerz on December 27, 2002, at 16:51:37
I think the icepick went in thru the eye sockets, not the skull. The lucky recipients ended up with big black eyes. THere was some famous doctor who pioneered it who could do hundreds per day. Yuck. What a psycho.
Posted by oracle on December 29, 2002, at 23:34:33
In reply to Re: How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by Tabitha on December 27, 2002, at 19:34:16
> I think the icepick went in thru the eye sockets, not the skull. The lucky recipients ended up with big black eyes. THere was some famous doctor who pioneered it who could do hundreds per day. Yuck. What a psycho.
This was the so called "button hook" opperation.
It sure did quiet them crazy folk down, though.
left them with no memory or personality.However, "Psyco surgury" is still done today in extream cases. Very specific destruction of connections and structures in the brain when those structures are ID'ed to be the cause of the problems.
Posted by Jason Higgins on December 30, 2002, at 2:14:30
In reply to Re: How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by oracle on December 29, 2002, at 23:34:33
I am new to this website and I am fascinated by it. It's so amazingly comforting to read other people experiencing the same things I've been going through.
I had a mental breakdown two weeks ago and attempted suicide. Afterwards I realised I didn't really want to die - I just urgently needed some help.
I had my first session with a therapist last week and I am on moclobemide. I think it's really helping. I feel much more possitive , although the things that are troubling me haven't gone away obviously.
I am fascinated by your discussions about drugs and what I am intrigued by is really a philosophical question. If my personality and identity is the by-product of a series of electrical and chemical processes in my brain - processes which can be manipulated by drugs - is there something in there that is the real, core me? Mocolobemide is making me feel better, but is is reality?
Posted by syringachalet on December 30, 2002, at 18:59:11
In reply to How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by utopizen on December 25, 2002, at 23:28:19
During my nursing training on the states ownded psych units back in the late 1970s, I was assigned the care of a male patient whom had a lobotomy back in the 1950s.
He had been a professioanl boxer and since his admission had retained a right hook that could still knock a adult male attendent on his butt.
This patients medical record(which was over 12 inches thick), had been tried on all of the current medical treatment of the time prior to his lobotomy. Neither the insulin therapys or the ECT treatments back then helped calm this now gentle giant of a man.His mental illness was pre- Thorazine, Stelaizne, Melleril; neither Prolixin or Haldol were probably even concieved yet.He did had two half inch burr holes drilled into the frontal part of his skull(on top of the skull but in front of the ears laterally). The doctors were not able to totally sedate him during the procedure as with any of todays brain surgerys. The doctors needed to be able to constantly assess the patients vital signs and his level of consciencious and ability to follow simple commands..open eyes, move finger, etc. It was thought back in the 1950s that it was kindered to calm the pateint by this procedure than to house him like an animal in a cell or keep him tied down running the risk of hurting himself or others.
(I have had burr holes in my own head once (NOT TO HAVE A LOBOTOMY) and after numbing the skin, there is really not a lot of pain...but that another story!)
Medications for treatment for anxiety, depression and anger have snowballed over the eyars and no MD now would consider such a procedure now.
I have seen several patients over the years whom had done their own 'chemical lobotomy' with illegal drugs and alcohol. Combining these with precription drugs is a receipe for disaster.
And as for one whom has seen its permentent effects, you would not want have any of it...
After all, what is YOUR personal freedom and independence (at whatever level it might be right now) worth to you?? Once you figure that out, then the rest is fairly simple...syringachalet
Posted by utopizen on December 31, 2002, at 13:18:31
In reply to Re: How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by syringachalet on December 30, 2002, at 18:59:11
Can one still love after a lobotomy?
It's just that my doc won't prescribe me a mg of Klonopin each day, and I've got no girlfriend as a result. I'm rather good-looking too, and 19, it's a shame.
Posted by syringachalet on December 31, 2002, at 13:40:36
In reply to Re: How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by utopizen on December 31, 2002, at 13:18:31
utopizen,
i find your dessert-dry sense of humor delightfully refeshing.
I think the idea of a physical lobotomy should be buried...RIP...
I think that you should really try to talk with your current psych doc and then if you still cant find the medical attention you need, maybe you should get a second opinion..
But doing that will require that you start a new and often drudge up all the old stuff you might not be ready to deal with.As for the female encounters, have you considered that you might be trying too hard?
Going safe places like church or concerts or even football games might be a safer place to just meet people that a realtionship may or may not result?( Most women tell me that most guys they meet in bars or clubs that come up to them, arent there cause they are thristy.. they just want in their panties...)
Just consider these ideas and let me know how youre doing.. you seem like a nice young man who just needs to feel you belong...dont we all...
syringachalet
Posted by gabbix2 on December 31, 2002, at 19:34:56
In reply to what's real?, posted by Jason Higgins on December 30, 2002, at 2:14:30
Welcome Jason, it is comforting isn't it to find a place that makes you feel less alien.
Question What is real?
That I think is a question that philosophers have pondered since antiquity.
I couldn't begin to answer, after all it would be impossible for anyone to prove that anything exists outside there own reality. After all, even if people agreed with you, you'd never know if perhaps they were just products of your imagination.However one thing I have noticed, is that for me there is an understanding that somehow my negative perceptions are correct, whereas my happy or content moments are simply a fluke.
Really that makes no sense logically.Also medication at first can sometimes make you feel a little 'over wound' like you are happy but have nothing to attach that emotion too, in my experience. I too wondered if I should really feel okay, while sitting on my couch with nothing to do.
For me it mellowed out, but it does hopefully help to get you on the bottom rung so to speak, where you can make some positive changes where you can feel your happiness is more grounded in reality.
Once again, welcome, and I hope that helped a little.
Happy new year.
Posted by TheHermit on January 3, 2003, at 11:58:15
In reply to Re: How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by oracle on December 29, 2002, at 23:34:33
> > I think the icepick went in thru the eye sockets, not the skull. The lucky recipients ended up with big black eyes. THere was some famous doctor who pioneered it who could do hundreds per day. Yuck. What a psycho.
>
> This was the so called "button hook" opperation.
> It sure did quiet them crazy folk down, though.
> left them with no memory or personality.I thought you were talking about ice-axes at first - Trotsky-style!
Another option is Trepanning. There's a complete chapter on how to do it right here:
http://www.noah.org/trepan/people_with_holes_in_their_heads.html
I'm not sure I fancy it myself, but maybe if I take a month's supply of Effexor and a fifth of vodka I'd be up for it - after all the Effexor on it's own doesn't seem to be a long-term solution: I'm just totally socio-phobic, unemployable zombie! Lotsa people seem to say trepanning's groovy - there was a docu. on it a while back. I thought it was done behind the ear though, and the trepanation tool sounds a lot safer than the electric drill approach that Joey Mellen and Amanda Fielding ended up with. Apparently the idea is to enable your brain to pulsate like it did when you were a baby with a flexible head, maximize the amount of blood in your brain, and give you a permanent high. Joey dropped acid to calm him down while he used the made the hole(s) (it took three attempts) - I guess your hands would shake less with LSD than vodka or cannabis! Anyway, if you do a Google search, it seems like you can buy the tools and everything. Then you just need a partner with a strong stomach!!
It's got a little more 'chic' than a random lobotomy, and has got to be less random than the SSRI's they've been trying me on for the last seven years - whaddya think?
Posted by Kam on January 4, 2003, at 1:23:57
In reply to what's real?, posted by Jason Higgins on December 30, 2002, at 2:14:30
What is real is smiling at someone and making them smile back, listening to a baby laughing, holding a loved ones hand, yes, I am on SSRI's for panic and it's been tough, tried 4 of them on my fifth, but thats okay because I have life. If it takes meds to make up for my past abusive life so be it. I have come to grips with that. EVERYONE that is decent in this world has something to give back. When you wake up tomorrow do yourself a big favor and just say THANK YOU ! And if you need to, look for friend to help !!!!!!!!!!!
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