![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 34. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by WorryGirl on December 9, 2002, at 12:16:38
I have GAD. I've been doing fairly well dealing with my anxiety by getting as much sleep as possible, and reading books on cognitive therapy techniques and trying to change my low perception of myself, especially how I handle social situations. Reading this board helps considerably, too - the suggestions and other people's experiences.
I still sometimes talk too much and often say the wrong thing, but overall I feel that I've improved.
My problem: I do not do well when I go out (usually shopping) with my kids alone. People don't treat me well, and it is not my imagination that when my husband is with me we are treated with much more respect. But I feel that there is something about me that people are reading before I've even opened my mouth, and I tend to get a lot of disapproving looks and condescending airs. I often get ignored completely while others get waited on immediately and when I request service I am treated as though I don't belong there.
I dress well (comfortably nice) and have been reasonably successful at maintaining a healthy weight, so I don't believe that it is my "appearance" that is making people treat me this way. I am somehow sending off signals that people are buying into that I don't feel good enough.
I smile, and do fairly well maintaining eye contact - what is it?
I came home in tears today because I had to buy something for my daughter at a children's clothing store. While waiting in a long line, one of my daughters was getting a little fussy (of course nobody else's child was being fussy at this particular time). I was doing my best to calm her and was finally successful. During this time I got many disapproving looks, which I know happens to many other people with fussy children, not just me. The two women working at the checkout counter were continuously giving me the evil eye, as well, but I was stunned when a very haughty looking woman barged right in front of me when it was my turn to have the clothes rung up.
In the past, I have always let rude people have their way (basically let people walk over me) and said nothing, but today I decided to speak up and said, "Excuse me, but I was next in line". The check out girl sneered and said, "Maam, we will be with you when it is your turn". I replied, "This woman was behind me and barged in front of me", but the checkout women proceeded to ignore me. I asked to speak to the manager, and the other salesperson said that she was the manager. I told her that they had both seen me in line and knew that I was next and didn't appreciate the way I was treated as a patron of this store. They basically told me I was free to take my business elsewhere. I turned around to leave and accidentally BARELY brushed a little girl (this was a very crowded store) and her mother looked at me as if I were Ted Bundy and said, "You practically knocked down my daughter!". I apologized and said that it wasn't intentional and quickly exited. NOBODY took up for me and EVERYONE in that store knew that I was next. What was it about ME that made me get treated so poorly even when I tried to stand up for my right?
As I was leaving, in a loud voice, I said "Merry Christmas, everyone, and goodwill to all!".
When I got to my car, I couldn't stop crying, and don't even want to shop alone anymore, even though I still have many gifts to buy. I have to learn how to handle these situations. I know rudeness happens to everyone, but I can't help feeling that I look like a loser; someone to pick on. I don't want my daughters growing up seeing me mishandle social situations, but I dread going out so much that I'm becoming more and more of a recluse. I have to be a better role model for my daughters - help!
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on December 9, 2002, at 12:31:14
In reply to I dread shopping more than ever-feel like failure, posted by WorryGirl on December 9, 2002, at 12:16:38
I can understand. It's remarkable to me how ignored and second class I seem to be as well. I've always assumed that maybe I'm just reading too much into things at times, but last weekend was a prime example of the fact that I *am* treated differently.
My girlfriend got a gift from her father that was broken, so we took it back (to Best Buy) to return it. The counter people looked at it, looked at us, shuffled around for a while, and said that they wouldn't take it back because it was broken (duh! why did I take it back?). I tried to reason with them. Said it just didn't seem fair, and it had cost so much. No dice.
Ok, so the next day I send in an older friend of mine to return it. He's much more forward and commanding about this stuff. They gave him the money back, no questions. No argument about the broken piece. No ignoring his pleas. It was just like, "oh, this guy's real" and they immediately did what he wanted (the same counter people, too), while I'm just nobody, and no one really gives me any respect. Should personal dynamics even have to be an issue in a store's return policy? Come on! Why should we all have to be so pushy or angry to get what we want?
Posted by Pfinstegg on December 9, 2002, at 14:38:18
In reply to I dread shopping more than ever-feel like failure, posted by WorryGirl on December 9, 2002, at 12:16:38
You acted just right- first you were courteous, then, when it became clear that a more aggressive woman was going to jump the line, you responded with gradually increasing assertiveness. You didn't lose control of your temper, nor did you remain passive. You did the best you could in a situation where it seems as if the most aggressive person was going to get her way. I think all of us are encountering huge amounts of aggression in daily life these days- in shopping, driving, etc. It seems clear to me that the service people behind the desk weren't responding to any deficiency of yours, but were falling into a pecking-order line behind the most aggressive person in the store at the time.
I think you behaved just right- I'm pretty sure that you don't want to be as aggressive as the woman who jumped the line- and you don't need to be to feel normal and adequate. It's natural to burst into tears in the car afterwards, too. You wanted to be in a fair and democratic situation, and someone else turned it into a power struggle. The thing is- don't take that final step in your thinking and assume that there's something wrong with you socially. Your daughters are fortunate to have a sensitive, loving mother- having a very aggressive one who always wins those store battles would probably be much less to their advantage. But, like all of us here, you need to believe in your own really, really good attributes! Next time this happens, you could make a humorous remark to your daughters about just not being able to get a fair shake when there are very aggressive people around- I bet it will strike a familiar chord in them if they are old enough to be in school.
Pfinstegg
Posted by bluedog on December 10, 2002, at 10:12:21
In reply to Re: I dread shopping more than ever-feel like failure » WorryGirl, posted by Pfinstegg on December 9, 2002, at 14:38:18
I have exactly the same problems that WorryGirl and Eddie have and I always seem to allow people to walk right over me.
However, your post put things into perspective for me and made me feel a little bit better about myself. I hope that your post had the same effect on WorryGirl and Eddie.
I can actually relate this topic quite neatly to the "Bullying" thread on PB Medication Board (see http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20021203/msgs/130999.html- that thread should really have been here on the Social Board)
What happens to people like WorryGirl, Eddie, myself and many others at the hands of insensitive shop assistants is in my opinion simply another form of bullying. At the very least it brings up intense feelings of having been bullied!!!
Thanks again
bluedog
Posted by WorryGirl on December 10, 2002, at 13:27:31
In reply to Re: I dread shopping. Thankyou Pfinstegg!!!!, posted by bluedog on December 10, 2002, at 10:12:21
I appreciate everyone's input. Pfinstegg, thanks so much for your support, and Eddie, it sounds like you can relate to constantly being treated as a 2nd class situation through no fault of your own other than "personal dynamics" as you put it. Blue dog, thanks for the link to the bullying thread. I completely related to that thread and added some comments.
I was bullied often as a child and feel that the treatment played a large part in who I have become as an adult. I guess it's easier for some than others to "leave the past behind". It's not like I go around thinking about it all of the time, but I believe that my childhood bullying helped contribute to my present anxiety and low self-esteem. They didn't think I was good enough, so maybe I wasn't? (they were just dumb kids, right - who made them the authority!)
As an adult, when I get treated like a 2nd class citizen (passive-aggressive bullying) it's like the wounds have re-opened which is why I feel the rejection more strongly than others. I am ashamed to say that at one time, as an adult, I left a wonderful position where I was highly valued by my boss, because of one bully who somehow managed to convince almost everyone else in the office that I was incompetent and probably giving BJs to keep my job! My boss was very stoic and from the old school, but felt extremely betrayed and hurt when I left, and couldn't understand why I let others' comments bother me. He thought I should've been stronger (and he was right).
I have to admit that there does seem to be some hidden radar that makes some people get treated better than others. Confidence is probably the #1 reason. Maybe when I feel that I am portraying confidence I am still giving myself away by subtle body language.
Posted by Ted on December 10, 2002, at 16:08:40
In reply to I dread shopping more than ever-feel like failure, posted by WorryGirl on December 9, 2002, at 12:16:38
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on December 10, 2002, at 16:11:09
In reply to Thanks to all posters! On bullying...., posted by WorryGirl on December 10, 2002, at 13:27:31
> I was bullied often as a child and feel that the treatment played a large part in who I have become as an adult. I guess it's easier for some than others to "leave the past behind".
---------------------------I'm sure there have been hundreds of studies done on the matter, but the practice of bullying and rudeness have made me think that bullies and victims all stem from the same source. When someone experiences pain or frustration, they can either get angry about it, or they can become sad. Bullies obviously take the anger road, while we seem to take the sadness route. Both are faces of pain. What makes people choose their role? I dunno. Genetics or upbringing, I guess. I know that I was exposed to constant anger from my dad while growing up, and it would simply sadden me. As a result, I grew to fear and despise anger in people, including myself. Anger was stupid and destructive, while sadness was at least noble by comparison. Unfortunately, my dad isn't the only one who casts inapropriate anger, and plenty of other people in my lifetime found that I didn't get angry back.
I've always had an idealistic hope that by being meek and forgiving (the visible side of being loving), that I could help the other angry people see that I'm not like whoever made *them* angry, and they'd see that there were better options to anger. Everyone wants to be loved, don't they?
It hasn't really worked out for me, though. Treating those who abuse you with kindness only seems to get you more abuse. Anger seems to be like a virus, or a rule to a game, converting everyone to it so that they might compete. It's like anger is the sellout choice in the prisoner's dilemma, and love is keeping quiet.
idk. I was really angry yesterday for no real reason after reading your story. I hate to hear about nice people getting crapped on. I felt like attacking someone. It's much more empowering to get angry than to cower.
I'd posted previously about the movie "Punchdrunk Love," in which Adam Sandler portrays a person who demonstrates both sides of the spectrum. 95% of the time, he's very timid and shy, unable to talk to people and enduring abuse with quiet tolerance. When his threshold gets crossed, however, he explodes in unchecked rage. In a scene where a truckload of petty thugs rams his car, he's stunned and afraid. When he sees that the wreck has injured his girlfriend, however, he absolutely snaps, beating the men with a tire iron in a trancelike fury. It's a character I could easily identify with, as I imagine many bully victims might. It's an allegory for the real world of Columbine and Goetz. Ideally, no one would bully, or victims would respond in healthier ways; we would all see the hurt in each other and recognize that we're in a collective. It was obviously Christ's idea. Sadly, or so it seems to me, people just aren't wired to do that, or maybe we're just pushed in the wrong direction so early in life that it's too permeant to unlearn.
Anyway, I applaud you for being the better person at the mall this year. You're immeasurably more decent and valuable and justified a person to me than all the other people that you've described. They're all idiots, and you should just stare blankly at them when they harass you, like one might look when contemplating what a barking dog is trying to tell them. Don't acknowledge them.
Posted by Dinah on December 10, 2002, at 16:45:27
In reply to Re: Thanks to all posters! On bullying.... » WorryGirl, posted by Eddie Sylvano on December 10, 2002, at 16:11:09
To follow up on our Psychological Babble conversation, this probably is part of the robot-like feelings. I also have an intense dislike of anger, and have promised myself not to spew forth anger like my parents. But I don't think suppression of feelings is all that selective. In trying to suppress the anger, we also make it difficult for ourselves to access the more desirable feelings.
Oh for balance.
Dinah
Posted by bluedog on December 10, 2002, at 21:46:15
In reply to I dread shopping more than ever-feel like failure, posted by WorryGirl on December 9, 2002, at 12:16:38
Hi guys
Another way to put these shopping experiences into perspective is to think for a moment about some of these shop assistants!!!
Even though some shop assistants truly fit the mold of a "bully" perhaps we could all stop and consider for a moment that many shop assistants are themselves the victims of bullying. I have friends who are shop assistants and they are constantly exposed to bullying and harassment from many sources including their managers (many middle managers have sociopathic tendencies), perhaps from colleagues and then of course the main source of harassment comes non-stop from rude, arrogant and demanding customers who have the expectation that they are so special and the poor shop assistant ought to behave as some sort of personal slave to them.
This harassment from these customers becomes especially intense at this time of year with Christmas approaching. This problem is magnified at large department stores where in the greedy quest for maximum profits there are rarely enough staff to properly meet customer demand.
So what tends to happen is that the shop assistants are so tired, harassed and jaded that they actually lose their perspective (you could say they lose a part of their humanity) and no longer see the customers as individuals and to protect their own sanity they tend to assume that all customers are rude and demanding ( ie customers are "guilty until proven innocent") I believe that you can almost relate it to a PTSD type of disassociation from reality and they lose their ability to distinguish the nice custmers from the rude customers.
To reduce their own stress levels and to retain their sanity, rather than standing up for the really nice customers like you WorryGirl or Eddie, it is much easier for these shop assistants to give in to the pushy, arrogant, rude type of bitch that you came across that day in the shop WorryGirl.
The trick is not to take it at all personally (AS DIFFICULT AS THIS CAN BE AT TIMES). I would be willing to bet that the MAJORITY of the other customers waiting in line that day THOUGHT that what happened to you was completely wrong, but again they find it easier not to become involved. It takes an especially confident and courageous individual to jump in and stand up for someone who is being treated unjustly but most of us simply are not able to do this.
Because I suffer from social anxiety I get particularly upset when I see someone being treated badly by shop assistants because I have a tendency to picture myself in that exact same situation. However,despite EXTREMELY STRONG URGES to jump in and help the person, my social anxiety simply stops me from doing anything. It's like I'm frozen!!!
Anyway, I hope this helps a little and again do not take what happened to you too personally :)
This is also why I always make my best efforts to be cheerful and understanding with shop assistants and if I come across a TRULY sociopathic bastard I go away and tell myself ten times that they probably have mental problems of their own. Even if I'm really upset this does actually help to settle me down somewhat.warm regards
bluedog
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on December 11, 2002, at 9:28:55
In reply to Re: I dread shopping! To Eddie and » WorryGirl, posted by bluedog on December 10, 2002, at 21:46:15
> Another way to put these shopping experiences into perspective is to think for a moment about some of these shop assistants!!!
---------------------You don't have to make that case to me. Customers can be some of the most despicable people you'll ever encounter during your lifetime. Somehow, the anonymity of being another face, and the presumed subservience that the employee represents creates some gross customers. I'd swear that some shop only to flex their exagerrated customer dissatisfaction. I've seen cashiers reduced to tears many times. The worst that I've witnessed was one night when a friendly, regular customer came to my counter (we'll call her customer A) a few seconds before another one (customer B) made an approach to the counter with her friend, gabbing away. My counter was an island, with no obvious entry point, so it'd be pointless to argue who came at the correct angle or whatever, Customer A, an elderly woman, was clearly first (and carrying a heavy load in her arms). So I begin ringing up A (who also happend to be black). Anyway, B (she's a wealthy, middle-aged white woman) realizes this right as she gets to the counter, and voices a cursory complaint ("I believe I was here first!"). I tell her that she wasn't, but that A (now writing out her check) only has a few items, and it wouldn't be more than 20 seconds. She rolls her eyes, turns to her friend, and loudly says, "Hmmph! Must be reverse discrimination day!"
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on December 11, 2002, at 9:56:05
In reply to Re: On anger... » Eddie Sylvano, posted by Dinah on December 10, 2002, at 16:45:27
>But I don't think suppression of feelings is all that selective. In trying to suppress the anger, we also make it difficult for ourselves to access the more desirable feelings.
--------------------I've read that you feel you're able to use this kind of emotional divorce/dissociation in a purposeful way, which is something I can't do. My emotions are usually either absent, or strong and mixed, for no real reason. I have seemingly no control over how I'll be feeling at a given time. My reticence to anger feels more pathological than volitional. I don't usually need to stifle anger, I simply don't have it (or relevant sadness, or happiness, or passion). The only time I get these feelings are in random, jumbled regurgitations (and dreams). Fortunately, modern life doesn't often call for visible displays of emotion.
Are all of your emotions affected by your emotional divorce? Does your husband complain about it? You're one of the few other people I can relate to on this issue. It's odd to read people's accounts on this board (versus talking to them in real life). Despite the problems and limitations you've described in yourself, you always come across as being very empahtic, intelligent, and well adjusted.
Posted by bluedog on December 11, 2002, at 10:01:06
In reply to crazy customers » bluedog, posted by Eddie Sylvano on December 11, 2002, at 9:28:55
Hi Eddie
Don't you just wish that you could make some snide comment back at customer B to the effect that she is an ignorant,racist bitch who should learn to wait her turn? Though I suspect that by doing so, because she is a "wealthy middle-aged woman" that she probably has connections and would probably make it her personal crusade to make your life extremely difficuly through your employer. It is very difficult to defend yourself in such situations,wouldn't you agree.
I suppose you took some satisfaction in the fact that you made this woman wait her turn and that the truly kind, nice customer was not left feeling like a second rate citizen. Congratulations for this small victory that you were able to achieve!!!
keep well
bluedog
Posted by Dinah on December 11, 2002, at 10:19:09
In reply to Re: On anger... » Dinah, posted by Eddie Sylvano on December 11, 2002, at 9:56:05
I see the emotional divorce as being a totally different phenomenon as the distance between my emotional self and my logical self. The former is a self protective mechanism that relates to certain people.
The latter came about by my attempts to distance myself from the less pleasant emotions and is not at all specific. By separating myself from the "bad" emotions, I separate myself from all emotions. Naturally such a separation is not perfect and leads to leakage of undifferentiated emotions or the flood of certain emotions when, say, the anger door is opened.
I've come a long way in therapy with the emotional separation. When I first went into therapy, my therapist thought that I was schizotypal due in part to my flat affect. He thought my range of emotion was extremely limited. Now he says he would never come to the same conclusion. That my range of emotions is fine, but that the separation between my emotional and rational states keep me from experiencing the emotions as I should. I still have a lot of work to do in the area, especially since the work has to be done around my not infrequent crises related to my mood and anxiety disorders. But I do see the *possibilities*. So far it's mostly been the bad emotions that have been accessed, but even that seems pregnant with possibilities.
Have you done therapy for this specific purpose? It took a long time to access that level of my being, and it still disappears from time to time. But I'm improving, and the therapy work has become deeper in the last year maybe. It is painful and destabilizing, but it's worthwhile I think. Of course, I'm a bit concerned that the destabilizing effect won't go away, and that the experiment might have to be abandoned. And the work depends to a large extent on my hard won attachment to my therapist.
By the way, my fear of anger is also pathological, as are all my reactions to anger. :(
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on December 11, 2002, at 11:15:43
In reply to Re: On anger... » Eddie Sylvano, posted by Dinah on December 11, 2002, at 10:19:09
> I see the emotional divorce as being a totally different phenomenon as the distance between my emotional self and my logical self. The former is a self protective mechanism that relates to certain people.
---------------------That makes sense. I can see where I've probably done things like that as well. I remeber going to court for my divorce and feeling absolutely nothing (even joked with the judge), saying goodbye to my new ex, shaking hands and walking away cavalierly. I had redefined my wife internally in a way that allowed for me to be dispassionate about it. Four months later I was crying on the floor on my shower, in prelude to a dehumanizing, year long depression.
> I've come a long way in therapy with the emotional separation. When I first went into therapy, my therapist thought that I was schizotypal due in part to my flat affect. He thought my range of emotion was extremely limited. Now he says he would never come to the same conclusion.
---------I've had that same concern about myself. Aside from the lack of emotions, I also don't have the desire to make friends or talk to my family. Very much a loner. Glad to hear he doesn't define you that way.
> Have you done therapy for this specific purpose? It took a long time to access that level of my being, and it still disappears from time to time
-------------------I probably should. I tried talking about it with one counselor I went to, but I don't think that I ever really got my point across to him. He mainly focused on the idea that I was socially phobic (which I was). I think that because I come across so sedate and studied, therapists tend to assume that I'm pretty much normal, with just a bit of neuroticism or something. It's difficult to describe how unusual and off I often feel, and that combined with my news-anchor like delivery doesn't convey the real frustration I feel.
> By the way, my fear of anger is also pathological, as are all my reactions to anger. :(
------------------Yeah. I can't handle anyone getting angry at me, or around me. Makes me very uncomfortable. I also can't express anger in any useful way. I either sulk and am quiet (90% of the time), or punch myself while shouting (10%). Nobody's buying my anger management book.
Posted by Dinah on December 11, 2002, at 11:58:07
In reply to Re: On anger... » Dinah, posted by Eddie Sylvano on December 11, 2002, at 11:15:43
Eddie, I'm a busybody I confess. But I *strongly* suggest that you try therapy again. Print out some of our threads and bring them with you to the therapist to describe the problem. From what you say about your fear of anger and from what you say about your anger outbursts, I think it's entirely possible that your problem is similar to mine. If it is, I think those emotions may be able to be accessed. Be careful and go slowly, because as I said, it's destabilizing. But on an entirely different level than I am consciously aware of, I do have feelings. And from what you've described, the same may be true of you. It may be possible to tear down those walls. Just be sure to do it at a conservative rate and with a competent professional. My therapist says sometimes that he's afraid of stirring up the mother of Grendel. :) But the possibilities of a richer life are there.
Do you ever remember, as a child, of feeling? Of wanting to be with people? By the way, a divorce followed by a dehumanizing year long depression would probably reinforce your self protective impulses and build that war a bit stronger.
Posted by NikkiT2 on December 11, 2002, at 13:48:25
In reply to I dread shopping more than ever-feel like failure, posted by WorryGirl on December 9, 2002, at 12:16:38
cos, I detest shops, I today I don't feel like a failure... infact, I feel quite pleased with myself.. I've just done ALL my christmas shopping (thats for two brothers, their wives, their 5 kids, my mum, my husband and my nan!!) on line!!!!
I luuuuurve the internet!!
Nikki
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on December 11, 2002, at 14:28:57
In reply to Re: On anger... » Eddie Sylvano, posted by Dinah on December 11, 2002, at 11:58:07
> Eddie, I'm a busybody I confess. But I *strongly* suggest that you try therapy again. But the possibilities of a richer life are there.--------------------
Probably. I've only been to a couple of them, never for more than 5 sessions. I wasn't real impressed with the apparent knowledge of one, and couldn't seem to quite communicate with the other. I guess I just have my doubts about the ability of someone to be skillful enough to assess my problems correctly, and address them effectively through therapy. I've only ever had a traditional doctor give me a correct diagnosis once, and disorders of the body seem like much more self-evident problems than disorders of the mind.
> Do you ever remember, as a child, of feeling? Of wanting to be with people? By the way, a divorce followed by a dehumanizing year long depression would probably reinforce your self protective impulses and build that war a bit stronger.
--------------------Yes, I recall fond memories from childhood. I enjoyed doing almost anything (bike riding, drawing, playing ball, etc), and I had plenty of laughs and thrills.
It's really only been in the last 5 years or so that I've been so unable to feel, experience anticipation, or have a coherent sense of myself and my life. I just feel like every day is disconnected, and I go through the motions of work and family and whatnot because I know it will be worse if I don't.
The divorce happened about a year after this all started, so it's hard to say what role it plays, but it can't be good. One possible example.. one of my current concerns is my disinterest in having any friends <> 2 months after the divorce, I discovered that she married my best friend (I'd wondered why he had gotten so distant). Probably a connection, but what does knowing it help? How could a therapist address this? I'm not saying therapy won't at all, it's just hard for me to believe in the utility of a method unless I have some understanding of it's mechanism.
Posted by WorryGirl on December 11, 2002, at 14:41:29
In reply to you're NOT a failure.... » WorryGirl, posted by NikkiT2 on December 11, 2002, at 13:48:25
Thanks Nikki,
I think that I am going to do more internet shopping, but it sure is nice to see and feel what I'm buying beforehand.
Actually, buying gift certificates online sounds like a good idea.It's funny how when I go shopping alone I don't get the attitudes from other customers and/or salespeople nearly as often. Even when my children are perfectly behaved you wouldn't believe some of the glares I get from people. Ironically, it is during the daytime (when most people are at their jobs) that I get the worst attitudes. You would think that there would be a sort of empathy between the stay-at-home mothers. Occasionally, yes, but surprisingly, more often than not, no, it's more like a competition and one-upmanship. Maybe their children have better genes! (laugh) I just can't (and wouldn't if I could) try to pull off the "I'm better than you are" game.
The salespeople seem snootier during the daytime, too. All of this might account for living in a fairly prosperous section of a big city. I wonder if, because I don't play the "holier than thou" game if people are assuming that I'm of a lower social order than they are.Interestingly, the "outside working people" (not that us mothers don't work!) I've found to be more friendly overall - if any of them are rude, it's probably because of stress and lack of time.
I do feel for the salespeople who have to deal with any kind of rudeness, excessive complaining and bullying. Because I'm afraid of anger, I would wither if I was treated as badly as I've seen some salespeople treated. I know that in the whole scheme of things, there really aren't as many salespeople trying to play power games (like the one I ran into Monday) as there are hardworking ones. It just seems more prevalent in this particular mall - I think it might be worth driving an extra 10 miles to go to a different one.
If I see someone treated rudely or unfairly I would like to think that I would intercede, but the social phobic part of me might take over and I would watch myself freeze as I have at other times. Very rarely I will surprise myself and show some spirit, but I am literally shaking when I do, and don't portray confidence at all. Maybe one day....
I know it sounds cheesy, but we really are all in the same big picture, trying to fulfill our destiny, playing our own unique part; it's just that there are always going to be people who feel that they are playing THE leading part.
Until I gain more confidence I think I'll stick to internet and night/weekend shopping.
Posted by Dinah on December 11, 2002, at 16:19:56
In reply to Re: On anger... » Dinah, posted by Eddie Sylvano on December 11, 2002, at 14:28:57
My answer was long, so I moved it to Psychological Babble. Here's a link.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20021109/msgs/1797.html
Posted by NikkiT2 on December 12, 2002, at 4:50:12
In reply to Internet vs. store shopping, salespeople » NikkiT2, posted by WorryGirl on December 11, 2002, at 14:41:29
I live in cetral London in the UK, and my nearest shopping is the busiest shopping street int he country... people are jsut sooo rude... and then I get upset which makes me angry, and I end up having a go at shop staff, and then am too scared to return to that shop...
I've just spent the weekend at Euro Disney, and still can't get over how damned rude people are in crowds... and it really got to me.. so sod it me thought - no way I'm hitting the shops now!!! Thing is, littlest nephew (only 18 months) wants (??!!) a sort of car that I can only find in the main toy store in London (hamleys!) which is SO busy this time of year I cannot face it... aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
How old are your kids?? I just couldn't imagine having to shops with kids in tow too!!!
Nikki xx
Posted by WorryGirl on December 12, 2002, at 10:38:01
In reply to Re: Internet vs. store shopping, salespeople » WorryGirl, posted by NikkiT2 on December 12, 2002, at 4:50:12
Nikki,
I have a 3 year old and a 1 year old. They are good kids, but they have their limits like anyone else and if they get upset I always take them out of the store if I can't calm them down in 5 minutes or so. If they're really loud I take them out immediately. So many people give me dirty looks like I shouldn't even be out shopping with them at all. I think it's important for them to learn how to act in public, and don't feel that sheltering them at home and never taking them on public outings is going to turn them into well-behaved 5 or 6 year olds when I finally take them out. It's not like a mall isn't appropriate for young children. We'd never take them to 5 star restaurants, of course!I guess things are just so stressful for everyone, especially this time of year that not many people have much tolerance for kids, even the sight of them, much less adults!
I remember when I was childless, and whenever I saw someone struggling with fussy children my heart went out to them. Where are those people now?
People can be unbelievably rude. Most of the time people help me with the door when I am struggling to get my double stroller through it, which I appreciate. But there have been people who shut the door in my face then turned around to watch me struggle. I guess some people have been **** on and they feel better watching others get **** on, too.London must be exciting, but obviously you get the crowds and rudeness there as in most big cities. I've heard the shopping is great - maybe one day I'll get to experience it....
Good luck with your shopping.
Posted by syringachalet on December 12, 2002, at 14:17:30
In reply to Re: Internet vs. store shopping, salespeople, posted by WorryGirl on December 12, 2002, at 10:38:01
I have physical mobility issues and have found internet shoppping my great friend.
I can either shop at stores that will gift
wrap and mail the gift for me or can have it
delivered to my door for my own personal giving.Here in the US, both US Postal service and
United Parcel Service have websites that using
a credit card will not only help you make your mailing labels but will let you prepay your postage and print it from your own computer.
You still have to be able to accurately weigh your package yourself and wrap it according to mailing guidelines.
The websites are USPS.com and UPS.comBeats standing in line for those busy people.. regardless their status...
Just an FYI....
syringachalet
Posted by ROO on December 13, 2002, at 8:50:17
In reply to Re: On anger... » Dinah, posted by Eddie Sylvano on December 11, 2002, at 14:28:57
<> 2 months after the divorce, I discovered
that she married my best friend (I'd wondered
why he had gotten so distant). Probably a
connection, but what does knowing it help?
How could a therapist address this? I'm not
saying therapy won't at all, it's just hard
for me to believe in the utility of a method
unless I have some understanding of it's
mechanism.
Wow...that's pretty huge, Eddie. Personally, I think a
a therapist (a good one anyone) could help you work through
your feelings (and discover your feelings) a lot on this
particular issue. That's just so big. Your best friend. And the
fact that she married him only 2 months after you divorced? It's just
betrayal on so many levels. That's enough to numb anyone out, shut anyone
down. Did you EVER used to want friends, or is this not wanting to
make friends a relatively new thing, somehow related to the divorce?
>
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on December 13, 2002, at 9:56:16
In reply to Re: On anger...Eddie Sylvano, posted by ROO on December 13, 2002, at 8:50:17
>It's just
> betrayal on so many levels. That's enough to numb anyone out, shut anyone
> down. Did you EVER used to want friends, or is this not wanting to
> make friends a relatively new thing, somehow related to the divorce?
--------------------------------It was pretty lousy. We'd been married for about 6 years (my first and only love at the time), and I'd never had a better or closer best friend. The worst part was that they both lied about ever even talking to each other during our seperation, which left me wondering why my friend didn't seem interested in talking to me anymore, when we previously spent a great deal of time together. I only found out about their marriage because a friend of my grandma worked the info out of my ex's former boss at the greeting card store. Oh yeah, and she told me she wanted a divorce on Christmas Eve. Bah.
As for the question, yes, I had a relatively normal desire to have friends before all this happened, and this has only developed in the years following that. No matter how much time I spend with guys nowadays, I never feel any closer to them as friends, and don't really want to (and the situation's not much different with women). It's sad because I used to have great times hanging out with my buddies, just goofing around, mountain biking, playing frisbee, talking. It was the cheapest and easiest way I've ever experienced so much happiness. Now I just feel really awkward about it, and can't relate to potential friends.
Thanks for the response, btw. It's nice to have someone hear my sob story. It *is* pretty soap opera.
Posted by NikkiT2 on December 13, 2002, at 10:21:15
In reply to Re: Internet vs. store shopping, salespeople, posted by WorryGirl on December 12, 2002, at 10:38:01
I take it you are int he US... You would ifnd London VERY expensive... I can never get over how cheap everything is in the US!!! My hubby and I often went to new York mainly just to go shopping!!! As an example.. a pair of Levi 501's over here works out about $60!!! And our MacDonalds portions are WAY smaller - I was so shocked first time I had a MaccyD's in Las vegas!!! The medium fries were the same size as our Super Size fries!!!!
Having just spent a weekend away with a 5, 4 and 2 year old, I really feel for parents struggling... I always help out when I can on buses etc, but so many people seem to act like I'm wierd when I offer to help!!!
Its not the kids that get to me at all, its stupid parents!!! *lol* And there seem to be so many of them in London this time of year!!!
have a good christmas.. sounds like you're doing agreat job bringing up your kids!!!
Nikki xx
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