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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by shar on November 17, 2002, at 22:13:06
I wanted to emphasize what bluedog wrote to Beardy, and took this out of the thread because it is sort of off topic and I don't want to get tangential on Beardy's thread. The rainbow bridge story and website kept me going for a while (you can read my clumsy memorial to Scruffles on there). When my beloved dog who held and holds with gossamer touches my true soul had to be put down. I put her down, and gladly, because she was suffering. I was lucky enough to have a vet that let me hold her while she 'slipped the surly bonds of earth.'
When a friend or friend's pet dies, I always send Scruffles a heads up, knowing that she will comfort that person or animal until comfort is no longer needed.
Scruffles is the reason I plan on going to doggy heaven when I die. We will have a blast then. Until then, she is with me every day. I have 3 dogs now, got them all as adults and all had been abused; I couldn't get another puppy.
A friend of mine, who lost her beloved beagle, told me you have to take a year to grieve. Because it is a year to come full circle--first Thanksgiving without them, first Christmas without them, etc. And I remember when Scruffles first died, walking into a room and just expecting her to be in her usual place....but she was not. Another part of the getting-used-to-living-without-them process.
Recently, I had a dear friend who put down his cat of 12 or so years, and who went through all sorts of angst because of the standard 'it's just a pet' comments, and I just can't stand that BS.
Anyhow, I'm thrilled that petloss.com has become known, and thanks, bluedog, for bringing it up.
Shar
Posted by bluedog on November 18, 2002, at 0:22:56
In reply to Rainbow Bridge, bluedog, pet lovers, posted by shar on November 17, 2002, at 22:13:06
I think that non pet owners and and those that don't love animals simply cannot understand the depth of feeling (and love) you can have for an animal. I used to get angry or upset at those that would tell me "it's only a pet" but I have mellowed in my attitude in recent years and understand that everyone is different and they simply don't know what they are missing out on. Often this is due to a lack of personal experience with pet ownership and I have seen several friends make a complete turnaround in their views after getting a pet. The only thing that does get me very angry still is people who are cruel to animals. I think the penalties in this world for animal abuse are absolutely woeful and I won't even get into what I believe the approprite penalties should be for the perpetrators of animal cruelty, but let me just say that they are along the same lines as the penalties that I believe should be given to child abusers and paedophiles as animals can be just as helpless and as trusting as children.
Medical researchers are now beginning to focus on the healing qualities of pets and some hospital wards and nursing homes now have resident dogs/cats etc because it is being consistently shown that patients who have contact and interaction with friendly animals recover faster from illness than patients who do not have such contact. These results are pronounced in patients who do not have any other family or social support to rely on other than the love of their animals.
It has also been shown that the grieving processs for the loss of a much loved companion animal can be exactly the same as the grieving process for the loss of a human companion and this is the main problem that those that don't have pets seem to wrestle with. Some people simply cannot understand that you can cry as much over the loss of a dog as the loss of a child as they believe that this devalues the grief that you suffer for the loss of a child. Pet owners know that this is simply not true and the grief in each situation is unique and and REAL. Unfortunately in our society pet owners who suffer this grief are discriminated against in very similar ways that people who suffer from depression are discriminated against. So, the result is that pet owners end up hiding their grief so as to not appear as eccentric, or mentally weak. The result of hiding this grief is of course that it perpetuates the illusion in our society that losing a pet does not constitute "real" grief. This is why I found the rainbow bridge and pet loss websites so helpful as it showed to me that I am not abnormal and that millions of pet owners go through the same feelings that I experienced after the loss of their furry friends.
Here is a list small list of things that I do with my 2 golden retrievers that absolutely horrifies my non pet owning friends.
1. I cuddle and smooch with my dogs. There is nothing quite so soothing as giving my dogs a great big hug. Believe it or not but I once had a girlfriend that was actually jealous of me cuddling my dogs. Another friend didn't know what to say when he saw me blowing rasberries onto my dogs tummy. ( Like you would blow raberries on a babies tummy)
2. I regress into baby talk when I communicate with my dogs.
3. My dogs sleep on the bed with me at night
4. My dogs have "their" couch in my living room.
5. Strangest of all, when I watch a movie I can watch people being blown up and killed in the latest "Arnie or Seagal" movie without batting an eyelid but I will have a lump in my throat when animal suffering is portrayed in the same movies ( is this abnormal? )
Basically my dogs do not judge me, they are always happy to see me and they bring much joy and laughter into my life. I believe that my depression would be worse than it currently is if it was not for my dogs.
Posted by Robin David John on November 18, 2002, at 0:42:22
In reply to Re: Rainbow Bridge, bluedog, pet lovers » shar, posted by bluedog on November 18, 2002, at 0:22:56
You are number one on my list this month with the rainbow bridge story ..You are very thoughtful and thought of greatly. ''I wish you all the best and thank you for being so thoughtful to beardy.
best wishes ..Robin
Posted by Dinah on November 18, 2002, at 1:39:27
In reply to Rainbow Bridge, bluedog, pet lovers, posted by shar on November 17, 2002, at 22:13:06
I found a cache of the rare photos of my darling little dog, my light and happiness, tonight. I've been scanning them into the computer and remembering the moments we took them. It was hard to photograph her. Mostly we got blobs because she was constantly in motion. A few months before her sudden accidental death I got a handful of good photos of her and they are my treasures.
I grieved for years and years, without resolution, until I found a grief and loss seminar put on by our local SPCA. I went there and cried and cried over other stories of loss and shared stories of joy. It helped in a way the mere passage of time could not. I had her with me for less than seven years, and it's been 15 years since she died, and I still miss her so much.I still remember her freckled feet and the few white hairs in the black on her face. I can still remember the way she felt in my hand, how she perched on my shoulder and nestled under my chin, how I held the door open a few extra seconds because I knew she'd be right behind me. I can't tell you how long it took before I stopped keeping that door open a few extra seconds.
Posted by BeardedLady on November 18, 2002, at 6:51:21
In reply to Re: Rainbow Bridge, bluedog, pet lovers, posted by Dinah on November 18, 2002, at 1:39:27
It amazes me that people say, "Oh, it's only a dog." It says more about them than about us, doesn't it?
When Wulf and my two cats died, I saw them around corners and felt them jump on the beds and brush against me. Wulf was sick, and the cats were old and sick. I'm wondering what is taking Buddha so long to appear to me somehow.
Anyway, when I jumped up and ran out of Weight Watchers Wednesday night, some woman asked my sister, "What happened," and she said, "Her dog is gone." The person replied, "Oh, I thought it was a person!" My sister said the right thing: "He's better than a person, to us."
Thanks again for the bridge.
beardy
Posted by Minx on November 18, 2002, at 11:02:20
In reply to Rainbow Bridge--shar, posted by BeardedLady on November 18, 2002, at 6:51:21
Almost a year (11/24) since my black & white mama's kittyboy Toby died. It hurt...And people don't get it.
My fiance's sister had a stillborn child, and he was very angry at me when I didn't show the "right amount" of grief over the tragedy. "You cried more for your damn cat than for my sister's baby". I never knew your sister's baby.
Toby lived with me and loved me for almost twelve years. He was by my side (on my lap) me when no other human on the face of the earth would have anything to do with me. He saw me drunk, he saw me sober, he saw me sane and insane, and he loved me through all of it.
To my fiance's credit, when we found Toby dead, he was the one who cleaned him up, and wrapped him for me. We went out to a place by the pond, and he held me while we buried him. He understands, but he doesn't.
I'm just glad somebody does. Petloss gave me a place to share with others who do.
Posted by IsoM on November 20, 2002, at 3:00:06
In reply to Re: Rainbow Bridge, bluedog, pet lovers » shar, posted by bluedog on November 18, 2002, at 0:22:56
I'm a big sop about animals. I don't have an all emcompassing love for dogs like I do for cats. It has to be a sweet intelligent dog but then I've been bitten by a few nasty dogs & am a little nervous if they're not like big teddy bears.
The love pets give is wonderful & so comforting. I read that one reason cats are good to cuddle is because they're the same weight as a small baby & have the same body feel (firmness). Maybe, but the soft fur is a real bonus too.
I have three cats, all different personalities & all special. Cuddling my smallest girl is so calming that after a while, I become so relaxed, I get sleepy. Maybe they're just cats to most people but they love me. They'll come running to greet me at the door when I return home, follow from room to room with me, & settle down next to me where I sit or when I sleep. Their devotion to me is touching. Any pet can be aloof if ignored & any can be loving if loved in return.
My cats know the sound of my car & I've been told jump up to watch at the window as I'm pulling into the driveway. My boy cat is curious & likes to check out the groceries when I bring them home, just like a little kid to see if there's a treat for him. He loves sitting on the window sill watching everything the neighbour does. My other two could care less. He'd make a great gossip if he could talk.
Unless one has bonded with a pet, they'll never understand the love we feel for them. I couldn't imagine a home without plants, books, music & most of all, pets. I wouldn't want to live in such a place. It would be empty indeed.
Posted by bluedog on November 20, 2002, at 7:57:53
In reply to Pet lovers and acceptance » bluedog, posted by IsoM on November 20, 2002, at 3:00:06
>
> Unless one has bonded with a pet, they'll never understand the love we feel for them. I couldn't imagine a home without plants, books, music & most of all, pets. I wouldn't want to live in such a place. It would be empty indeed.
I couldn't agree more!!!
Having experienced both dog and cat ownership I can say that each type of pet has it's own special qualities and I can't say that I prefer dogs over cats or vice versa. However I can understand that you are wary of strange dogs. Even though I really love dogs I am still wary of strange dogs especially when I am walking my own dogs as my own dogs have been attacked by aggressive dogs in the past (not a pleasant experience). They are golden retrievers so they are not equipped to deal with aggression and have this unrealistic view on life that everything and everyone is as friendly as they are.It's quite hilarious when dogs and cats live in the same household to see how cats manage to remain completely superior to the dogs (and don't they just know it). But it's wonderful when you see a cat and dog cuddle up to eachother when they go to sleep at night. They are very tuned in to eachother and miss eachother when one or the other dies. It's amazing how cats, dogs and humans are all able to interact in one household.
Iso, I gather from your post that you keep your cats permanently indoors. Does this present any problems? I have been considering getting a another couple of cats since our Russian blue/Burmese of 12 years died recently. I have decided that when I am ready to get new cats that I will keep them as indoor cats. What type of cats do you have? I've heard that ragdolls are supposed to be suitable as indoor cats (thay also have very cute faces)
Posted by IsoM on November 20, 2002, at 15:20:02
In reply to Re: Pet lovers and acceptance » IsoM, posted by bluedog on November 20, 2002, at 7:57:53
Bluedog, I've had a dog too. She was a German shepherd, rescued from a puppy mill. She was covered in feces but a good bath fixed that. Though she was supposed to be pureblood, she was a little shaggier than most shepherds & looked wolfish. We did everything together. She knew more than 30 separate words & commands but she always remained a puppy at heart, even when she was older. I miss her dearly still after almost 20 years gone.
I had a cat when I had her & their relationship was funny. They were good friends but both would compete for my attention & feel snubbed if I showed it to the other. My dog & cat would sleep snuggled together in summer under a big tree. But every morning when they woke, my dog would grab my cat's tail in her mouth (gently) & run around like crazy till my poor cat was soaking wet with dew. I soon stopped that when I found the cause of why my cat was wet every morning.
I still love big dogs best, but they must be gentle. My neighbour's dog's convinced I'm just another big dog, part of the family, she gets excited whenever I visit. I love er as she looks a lot like mine did.
As for indoor only cats, I have a huge outdoor upstairs deck filled with plants. There's bird feeders too so the cats get lots to do in warmer weather & in winter can watch the birds. Still, it doesn't stop my fixed boy from jumping off it regularly if he sees a neighbour cat on our property. At least, he comes right back when I call "beans!" (he's addicted to raw green beans).
My cats are just mixed domestic short hairs, nothing special. I couldn't afford a special breed.If you provide plenty to do for indoor cats, interesting places, & a changing variety of toys (cycle through them regularly), they won't be bored inside. I sometimes have joined a number of diff sized cardboard boxes together with hot glue, cut out passages from one to another & peek-a-boo windows on the sides & tops & cat's love it. HAul it out for a few days, then put it away for a couple of weeks & cycle through it. I don't buy toys. A sheet of newspaper folded a bit in the middle so they can crawl under it, a open big paper bag, bits of outside stuff brought in that smells interesting to play with like pinecones, pieces of bark or wood, a small nontoxic plant branch - things like that. A good perch by windows so they can watch the outdoors - after all, when a cat goes outside, most of the time they just sit & watch anyway. And if you're inventive, building ramps & walkways on the inside walls of your house can be great fun for them, giving them higher up places to play & observe. The possibilities are only limited by your imagination!
Having had a Russina blue/Burmese before, you may find that a cat who isn't so energetic might be disappointing. Ragdolls are sweet but not nearly so active & inquisitive - a little too laidback for me. Abyssinians are great for activity as are most Orientals.
Posted by bluedog on November 20, 2002, at 19:59:03
In reply to Re: cat and dogs and diff types » bluedog, posted by IsoM on November 20, 2002, at 15:20:02
Thankyou for your advice.
I must admit I do like an active cat. What I really loved about our Russian Blue/Burmese was that he was constantly "talking" with us. It's been so terribly quiet not hearing his voice constantly since he's been gone. Often when he was in the back garden he would call out just so that we would respond to reassure him that we were still around. He would be at his most vocal whenever we arrived home after having been gone all day. He'd also announce his arrival whenever HE came back from being out for a while and he expected a response whenever he did call out to us. I've been told that it was the Burmese in him that made him so talkative.
He was very attached to us. Even on his final day when he could no longer eat or drink he wanted to be around us and even though he could barely walk he would follow us into whichever room we were currently in. It was heart wrenching to see him try to talk with us and all that would come out was this very sad rasping sound. On that last day he did all the things that he normally did as best he could. He made one last round of his territory almost like he was saying goodbye and he lay down in his favourite spot in the sun. We love our animals so much that we could not allow him to suffer so we made the difficult decision to have him put to sleep. We know he was no longer suffering because his tense little body completely relaxed within moments of the vet giving him his final injection.
I know some people have decided that they will never have an animal again after going through the experience of losing a pet, but I am not like that. I couldn't bear to miss out on the joy and life that animals bring to your life and I believe the pain of losing them is unfortunately the price you pay for that pleasure. I saw a documentary not so long ago on the Queen (I notice that like myself you live in a Commonwealth country) and she once said that "the price of love is grief". I think this is very true.
Posted by utopizen on November 20, 2002, at 21:50:48
In reply to Pet lovers and acceptance » bluedog, posted by IsoM on November 20, 2002, at 3:00:06
My cat will only drink water from my dog's dish (who has acceptered her as some "odd" but innocent creature... you can tell my looking at him observe the cat that he think's she's "weird" but innocent...
Anyway, she also goes *crazy* over a cup of water I hold- she comes up to it like it's sugar water. She ducks her head in to take a sip until she's drank so much she can't get to it anymore with her big head.
Posted by utopizen on November 20, 2002, at 21:57:08
In reply to Re: Pet lovers and acceptance » IsoM, posted by bluedog on November 20, 2002, at 7:57:53
I've heard that ragdolls are supposed to be suitable as indoor cats (thay also have very cute faces)
>
>Having interned for a state SPCA, I can tell you humane groups are furious over the "indoor vs. outdoor cat" debate. So many accidents occur with cats outdoors that all cats should remain indoors. Especially if you live near a street that has cars use it.
Even in a rural area, coyotes could make a good snack out of a cat. Mine was an abuse case, and it grew up in a city, so it doesn't get curious enough to go beyond 20 feet of the house, so letting it outside is a different thing for us, where there's no close street, etc.
But a cat can easily get lost if it's not the type of cat I have, as cats are curious and often explore for long bouts of time before they realize they forgot the way home. I had one that left for 6 months, and finally one day just walked in from the backdoor.
Posted by utopizen on November 20, 2002, at 22:00:31
In reply to Re: cat and dogs and diff types » bluedog, posted by IsoM on November 20, 2002, at 15:20:02
I adopted two gerbil clans over the summer, two pairs of three sisters each.
Wow, never knew their personalities and social structure were so intricate... wow.
Posted by shar30906 on November 20, 2002, at 22:06:35
In reply to Pet lovers and acceptance » bluedog, posted by IsoM on November 20, 2002, at 3:00:06
I to feel the same way. I was viscously attacked by a large dog, but even after that I still cant deny my love for them. It did take me many years to get over that fear, and i do have a great respect, but when i cant bear to leave the house my two dogs are at my side even if i have not been able to bring my self to bathe for two weeks, they still love me, never judgeing me, never telling me to get over it or stop feelign sorry for my self, just loving me for me, unconditional love.
shar30906
Posted by Peter S. on November 21, 2002, at 0:46:06
In reply to Re: Pet lovers and acceptance, posted by shar30906 on November 20, 2002, at 22:06:35
I just bought an aquarium and some gold fish. They're really great! Very meditative and interesting to watch. Definitely helpful for depression, anxiety, etc. Fish have a very different reality than ours (I think). I'm not sure if they get depressed but mine seem pretty happy and active. I never thought fish could really be defined as "pets" like dogs and cats but I'm surprised that I've already developed an attachement to them.
If you can't have dogs or cats for whatever reason (my landlord forbids them) I think fish are a worthwhile alternative.
Posted by utopizen on November 21, 2002, at 6:21:11
In reply to Re: Pet lovers and acceptance, posted by shar30906 on November 20, 2002, at 22:06:35
> I to feel the same way. I was viscously attacked by a large dog, but even after that I still cant deny my love for them. It did take me many years to get over that fear, and i do have a great respect, but when i cant bear to leave the house my two dogs are at my side even if i have not been able to bring my self to bathe for two weeks, they still love me, never judgeing me, never telling me to get over it or stop feelign sorry for my self, just loving me for me, unconditional love.
> shar30906okay, wrong board, but have you tried dexedrine for such said slumps? I've fortunately never had depression, but do have ADD, as an ADD college student with insurance, thereby entitled to sample every stimulant known to man... and wow, is my room clean when I remember to take my meds. =)
Posted by utopizen on November 21, 2002, at 6:22:05
In reply to In praise of fish, posted by Peter S. on November 21, 2002, at 0:46:06
> I just bought an aquarium and some gold fish. They're really great! Very meditative and interesting to watch. Definitely helpful for depression, anxiety, etc. Fish have a very different reality than ours (I think). I'm not sure if they get depressed but mine seem pretty happy and active. I never thought fish could really be defined as "pets" like dogs and cats but I'm surprised that I've already developed an attachement to them.
>
> If you can't have dogs or cats for whatever reason (my landlord forbids them) I think fish are a worthwhile alternative.
>>
If they get depressed, do you feed them fish oil supplements? =P
Posted by Ginjoint on November 21, 2002, at 8:07:58
In reply to Pet lovers and acceptance » bluedog, posted by IsoM on November 20, 2002, at 3:00:06
I tend to feel sorry for people who don't have an animal in their life. My two cats are my best buddies in the whole world. They greet, they COMFORT, they snuggle, they talk, and they play. (Oh yeah, they also crap H-bombs, eat like pigs then beg for my food, yark up all this food on the carpet, all while sleeping 23 1/2 hours a day. But that's nothing worse than the garbage humans do, if you think about it).
I'd love to also have a dog, but there's not enough room in this small apartment. I'd also love to have birds, some hamsters, fish, or even a snake. However, my cats could be featured on an episode of "Extreme Hunting!" if such a show existed, and I have no desire to see the food chain demonstrated in my living room. So for now, they are queens of all they survey. Including me.
Ginjoint
Posted by Peter S. on November 21, 2002, at 11:36:09
In reply to Re: In praise of fish, posted by utopizen on November 21, 2002, at 6:22:05
I've recently been putting Prozac in the tank. I might consider fish oil. I'm kind of leaning away from ECT.> If they get depressed, do you feed them fish oil supplements? =P
Posted by IsoM on November 21, 2002, at 15:59:34
In reply to Re: In praise of fish, posted by Peter S. on November 21, 2002, at 11:36:09
You might try adding a bit of your morning coffee to the tank. Caffeine does affect fish & we all could use a boost in winter weather. Just make sure you don't add any milk or sugar to your coffee. The sugar will encourage bacterial growth in the water & milk isn't natural for goldfish, being non-mammals.
You might want to try playing one of those relaxation CDs with soothing ocean sounds to make them think they're back home again. Pictures of kelp taped to the back wall of the tank is also very relaxing for fish. Caffeine to wake them up & the rest to keep them mellow. Studies have shown that a combination of these two oppposites increases a goldfish's lifespan twofold!
If all else fails, a dilute tea from cannibis leaves will mellow them out even better.
- - - -I used to have a tank with fresh water tropical fish & loved it. I'd really like to get a very large tank so I can have salt water fish. The upkeep is much greater & total costs are higher but it's my goal. Guppies, mollies, danios, & tetras are sweet but I'd like something a little more exotic.
In case anyone doesn't know me & thought my advice medicating fish was real, it was a joke.
Posted by Gabbix2 on November 21, 2002, at 23:08:54
In reply to Re: In praise of fish » Peter S., posted by IsoM on November 21, 2002, at 15:59:34
Hi Peter
I just wanted to say its nice to see your name on the board, and to see your humor is still intact.Our thread on killer bunnies still has chuckly memories for me.
Posted by Peter S. on November 22, 2002, at 13:04:20
In reply to Re: In praise of Peter S., posted by Gabbix2 on November 21, 2002, at 23:08:54
Thanks Gab! Good to hear from you too.
I'm going through what feels like living hell right now. Unemployed and I keep screwing up interviews. I hate to not take responsibility for things but I think it is very much related to depression or bipolar 2. For 3 days I feel great and then I slide into darkness. I don't know whether I'm coming or going. When I'me depressed I basically have no self esteem or confidence and of course this affects my interviewing.
I'm really tired of this. I need money.
Enough of my bitching. Hope things are well in your world.
Peter
> Hi Peter
> I just wanted to say its nice to see your name on the board, and to see your humor is still intact.
>
> Our thread on killer bunnies still has chuckly memories for me.
>
>
Posted by Gabbix2 on November 22, 2002, at 15:37:29
In reply to Re: In praise of Peter S., posted by Peter S. on November 22, 2002, at 13:04:20
Aww damn,
I read a while ago that you were doing well.
It wasn't even that long ago.
I'm sorry. It happens to so many of us you know, you think "finally" yeah! I can actually start progressing instead of focusing on staying upright... and than wham!
I say that so often, as well I'm just so tired of this.Right now, I'm okay, its temporary though, I'm not being negative, its just that some really kind people have invited me to share their abundance, so generous. Its only for a few months though til I get back on my feet.
Though I've been talking about when I get back on my feet for 2 years now. And the scary part is I've been trying...
Wahhhh....
You might get a weary chuckle out of my "can anyone relate to this" post down, down, down.. there. A young guy at the hospital i was at recently, said in all innocence, something I think we can all relate to....Take care you.
and may there be no goo..
G.
This is the end of the thread.
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