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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by mair on November 12, 2002, at 12:19:36
In reply to Re: To Beardy on her bad day, posted by ROO on November 12, 2002, at 8:50:13
Beardy
I know this is SCANT CONSOLATION, but you are a person who's whole outlook on life can fluctuate depending on how much sleep you're getting. So - all the really crummy stuff you're telling yourself is coming not from you, but the sleep-deprived you. I'm not familiar with Sonata, but i used to take klonopin at night. I took the same amount every night and slept great, EXCEPT periodically, for no apparent reason, it wouldn't work at all and I'd start sleeping really poorly. Sometimes I wouldn't be able to get to sleep, but more typically, I'd wake up prematurely. After not terribly long, I wouldn't be able to figure out if I was depressed because I wasn't getting enough sleep or not sleeping well because I was depressed. Quite the Conundrum!
I think you've gotten some great suggestions from this thread already. When I've found my self in similar circumstances, it has nearly always worked for me to up my klonopin, even substantially for a few days. I sleep better and once I've stopped obsessing about my lack of sleep, I've been able to pare down the dose.
Mair
PS - I particularly loved Judy's suggestion. My kids are too old now, but it made me think back to the time when I was far more seriously depressed and sleeping very little. One night I ended up in bed with my then 6 or 7 year old daughter. I just needed to be near her, and my recollection was that it did help relax me. (of course she was a bit surprised to find me curled up on the end of her bed when she woke up)
Posted by jyl on November 12, 2002, at 12:52:09
In reply to Re: I hate myself, posted by Ginjoint on November 12, 2002, at 8:05:01
hi blady-
niquil and sleeping pills?wow that might be why you didnt sleep.i know a person who use to drink niquil just to feel a bit numb durring the day-i guess it can be kind of an upper.
a nurse at the hospital told me i was not setting a healthy example for my children.
just because i dont leave the house much does not mean my kids wil grow up and lock themselves in.
does it?
i just wanted to smack her!
jyl
Posted by BeardedLady on November 12, 2002, at 13:03:34
In reply to Re: To Beardy on her bad day, posted by mair on November 12, 2002, at 12:19:36
Thank you. Some have suggested I change meds, and they get frustrated with me because I resist. My last big bad spell was last February, when I miscarried. I know, however, that sometimes anxiety breaks through. And I know I'm secretly obsessing over finances and a job I'm afraid to do because my friend is the boss. It took me a while to figure that out. When you wake up at 2:00 a.m., you're not really thinking about anything bad. But it seems to just be there, in your body.
What is your take on the early awakening? I read that it's more common than insomnia, and that so many people have it. A friend thinks it is biochemical (hi, friend. I love you!), but I believe it's situational--usually having something to do with seasons or rain or deeply buried frustrations.
And you are right. My therapist always tell me how "high functioning" I am, and my mother always complains that my "unable to sleep" self forgets that too often with every relapse.
Freaked me out that the Sonata pooped. That's happened before, and it's usually followed by some more struggles.
I feel crappy but less so because of you and these other wonderful people. I hope your insurance ills aren't dragging you down and that you're enjoying fireside chats with your daughter (kids?).
I think I might also be having issues because my girl cries when we go home from school because she has no one to play with. (She has lots of play dates, but no brother or sister, and she asks about adopting a lot.)
So, again, thanks.
beardy
Posted by BeardedLady on November 12, 2002, at 13:09:25
In reply to Re: I hate myself, posted by jyl on November 12, 2002, at 12:52:09
Sorry some of you thought that. I took Nyquil for four nights last week. (I slept like a rock. It always works for me when I'm sick.) I stopped Nyquil after Saturday night. Sunday and Monday I wasn't sick enough for cold medicine, but I had some chest congestion that was making me uncomfortable. I took Sonata instead of Nyquil.
That's what happens when I'm tired. I'm garbled.
Beardy
Posted by BeardedLady on November 12, 2002, at 13:26:19
In reply to Re: I hate myself, posted by jyl on November 12, 2002, at 12:52:09
> just because i dont leave the house much does not mean my kids wil grow up and lock themselves in.
> does it?I can't answer that. I don't know your situation, but it's not appropriate for anyone to judge you.
I know that I fret about it because my daughter is a sponge. She has great intuition and remembers everything. And when I think she's not listening, she is.
My daughter told me the other day she wasn't eating the rest of her lunch because she was getting a little fat. (She is almost five and taller than a size five and skinnier than a size four.) I was flabberghasted. "What made you say that? You are a perfect little girl." She said, "Well, you go to Weight Watchers because you're fat." (It's my fault. I am not fat, but I say I am. I am 5'4" and 140 pounds--overweight, but not fat.)
Don't think for a moment that a child whose mother looks in the mirror and says, "My butt's too big for these jeans" isn't going to say the same thing very soon.
As for whether your personality will rub off on your kids, I don't know how it can't in some way.
Beardy
Posted by NikkiT2 on November 12, 2002, at 15:17:20
In reply to you are great, Mair, as usual » mair, posted by BeardedLady on November 12, 2002, at 13:03:34
"I think I might also be having issues because my girl cries when we go home from school because she has no one to play with. (She has lots of play dates, but no brother or sister, and she asks about adopting a lot.)"
*hugs for you both* I wasn't an only child, but my brothers were 14 zand 16 years older than me so I had no one to play with.. I often had friends over to stay though and that was fab.. most weekends there would be someone there!!! Holidays were lonely, but I soon starte dbeing able to take a friend on holiday with me which was also great!!!
As long as you encourage her to ave plenty of friends, I;m sure she'll get past this phase.. its probably just because some of her friends have younger siblings...
Nikki xxx
Posted by Mal on November 12, 2002, at 15:43:57
In reply to Re: you are great, Mair, as usual, posted by NikkiT2 on November 12, 2002, at 15:17:20
Beardy, I really hope your sleeplessness disappears soon!! And Nikki, I always had friends at my house, too. Funny, though, when I was 5 my Mom asked me if I would like a kid brother or sister and I said no!!! I had an older brother (7 yrs. older) and I was very happy being the baby! Beardy, I wish you the best whatever you decide to do with the family and the job. My guess is that you have a lot on your mind, and that is what wakes you. That's the way it works for my husband, anyway. Once he thought we might have bounced a check and he was up at 2 am for 2 or 3 nights!!
jyl, about whether your kids will lock themselves up- I don't think so- I certainly hope not! My mother in law for years hardly left the house, and she didn't drive at all for about 20 years. Her kids both turned out great, outgoing, busy. They are fine despite their mother's battles with depression (I think that was her dx- she doesn't talk about it much at all). I think they are critical of their mom, and don't really understand that depression is an illness. I hope your kids do understand.
Hope you all have a great evening!!
MAL
Posted by IsoM on November 12, 2002, at 18:26:55
In reply to I hate myself, posted by BeardedLady on November 12, 2002, at 6:03:44
Beardy, do you think you may be sleeping poorly 'cause something's stewing around in your subconscience, skewering your sleep? At times, for me, it doesn't even need to be much but if something's nagging away in my mind, I can't sleep proper. I really need to be completely at peace with myself to sleep good. If my sleep goes off for more than a night, it's a barometer for me that something needs resolving. It can be anything as small as paying a bill that there's no money for right then to doing crappy on a test I thought I'd ace.
So don't berate yourself. Lack of sleep compounded by other stresses of normal life can make our views & judgement really off from how we would normally view life. And your message to Roman wasn't a whine to me. Not everyone can force themselves to smile & laugh, & then feel better, but for some of us, it does work. It does for me.
I had a lousy migraine for a couple of days & at the end of the first day, I noticed my mood was bleak, dark, & edgey - not like me. It occurred to me that I'd gone around all day with a frown etched on my forehead because of the pain that wouldn't leave (even with strong meds). That frown had changed my mood - headaches by themselves don't do that. I had to lay down with a warm cloth around my forehead & temples to loosen the tight, sore muscles.
And then yesterday, no matter what, I was tired. The day looked so dreary but my mood was good & I got busy cooking up a storm of stews, soups, apple crisps, etc. But whenever I stopped, I'd want to sleep. I finally thought if I took an extra Dexedrine & laid under my SAD light, I'd perk up. But no, even with the bright light less than a foot from my face, the Dex in me, my cat stretched across my chest, & the washing machine going (LOUD! - son washing clothes), I fell asleep. How pathetic.
I know - you wish you could fall asleep like that, but for me, I hate the amount I sleep in winter. Cross a giant slug with a hibernating bear & that's me in winter. Ulysses' Sirens had nothing compared to the allure of my bed & soft pillows & quilt.
How about renting a silly, happy movie that you can watch with your daughter? Make caramel popcorn & a jug of orange juice & curl up together to watch it & laugh. Hug her lots too. Really - the physcial contact is so healing & so is laughter.
Posted by BeardedLady on November 12, 2002, at 18:54:08
In reply to Re: I hate myself » BeardedLady, posted by IsoM on November 12, 2002, at 18:26:55
Thank you all (I'm compelled to name you, but it would look like Romper Room, and I'm not ready to cheer up). Your kind words made me feel relaxed enough to lie in my bed (bed, no hard feelings, 'kay?) and actually fall asleep for 30 minutes. And when I realized I had been sleeping, I slept another 30. It sometimes restores a little confidence.
Shar and Dinah, special thanks to you, as we've had our ups and downs. (And thanks for the birthday wish, too, Shar; I forgot to post it before.
I actually had a problem with that job today--it's due in December, and I thought it was due in the spring. I gave my client/friend an option out of using me, but she still believes I'm the best person for the job. Although the stress of doing it is still here, and now with an urgency, I am at least a little more confident.
And I got a couple grand in back payments for jobs, so I can pay all my bills tomorrow. Just gotta get through tonight and make it to therapy tomorrow.
Again, all of you, you're terrific. I hope I don't do this often. (Or I should just print out the thread, eh?)
a better beardy
Posted by IsoM on November 12, 2002, at 18:58:40
In reply to Re: I hate myself, posted by jyl on November 12, 2002, at 12:52:09
Jyl, we're not monkeys but we can learn a lot about behaviour from them. I thought of a study that had been done when I read your post. Let me tell you what I "think" it says.
Researchers noticed that some of the monkeys in their study were outgoing & dominant while others were shy, timid, & held back from trying new things. The offspring of the two diff types also grew up like their mothers. They wondered if it was a result of inheriting these tendencies or of learning them from the mothers.
So they took some babies from the timid mothers & gave them to the dominant outgoing mothers to raise. The wanted to see how the babies would turn out. It was found that these babies from timid mothers would be more outgoing from growing up with the privileges afforded a top monkey. But when it came down to the crunch, when new & perhaps frightening & dangerous things came up, these supposedly bolder monkeys showed their true nature. They ran & hid or ran for cover. They were the last to try out new stimuli. Even with the best of environments from a top ranking mom, their nature was still that of their timid, subservient mom.
Now, we're not monkeys as I said. But if your daughters grow up shy or grow up outgoing, it's far more than you setting a "bad" example for them. We're not such mindless little robots. There's many things involved. I don't think motherhood (or fatherhood) should be filled with guilt & doubt. As long as we do our best, shower them with love & acceptance, & provide a framework of discipline & principles, our kids will grow up pretty fine. Everybody makes mistakes but we're malleable enough to grow up right anyway.
Posted by jyl on November 12, 2002, at 19:03:25
In reply to Re: I hate myself » jyl, posted by IsoM on November 12, 2002, at 18:58:40
Posted by Robin David John on November 12, 2002, at 19:08:22
In reply to I hate myself, posted by BeardedLady on November 12, 2002, at 6:03:44
Hi Beardy
You know we all love you and that there is nothing worse than feeling down, so lets get somethings together here; 1. you are a compassionate individual that has a wonderful outlook ...2. you are very positive to others that you share with. 3. you bring alot to these boards and we respect your input. 4. you have a great mind and you are very empathetic to other.5. you are bright and outgoing with a super personallity. 6. you have a passion for life to improve lifes terms(good for you)..7. things are going to get better and did I say we still love you know matter what you are going through.Remember my last post to you ..about changing the chemical sleep inbalance..well I think what you have done is : taking this over the counter depressent you have thown your balance out ..if you take a depressent it makes you sleepy and when the depressent life is cycled, your chemistry goes back to balance it can over shoot the balance however and put your chemistry out and put you in the awake cycle of your day ..I think this is what happened and that is why the sleeping pill didn't work.
I wish you well hope you read this and don't take those other meds from over the counter.
Sleep well/.....Zzzzzzzz
Trust me I think this is the problem..
Big Bro Robin
Posted by Roman on November 12, 2002, at 19:53:43
In reply to I hate myself, posted by BeardedLady on November 12, 2002, at 6:03:44
"And I feel even worse for posting my stupid loser rant under Roman's post, when he really needs help."
You did help me, oh bearded one. Your post was an act of kindness that made a difference in someone whom you don't know, but was hurting badly. I appreciated it.
"...being the pathetic, self-absorbed whiner that I am."
This can be nothing more than depression talking. Every ounce of evidence I've seen on this discussion board supports the complete opposite.
Not sleeping destroys my ability to think clearly, and my anxiety level goes throught the roof. I was up until 7 am last night (something in the air?) and finally gave-in and took some Xanax to knock me out. I'm sure you'll be fine after you make up for the lost sleep.
I hope I can return some of the healing energy you sent my way when I needed it. Put up your antenae, I'll transmit sleep signals to you this evening.
-Roman
Posted by BeardedLady on November 13, 2002, at 4:01:12
In reply to Re: I hate myself, posted by Roman on November 12, 2002, at 19:53:43
I taught a great class last night. My students all had fun, and I was on. Went to bed at 10 and woke up at midnight. I took a Sonata at 12:15 and then another at 12:50, and I'm still awake at 4:55. Awake and crying.
I just quit a huge job I was doing for a client who is a very close friend. I have had the job since mid-September, and I have hardly been able to get a handle on it. At 4:15 a.m., I let her down. I have never done this in my life. And I completely let ME down. But I almost feel a burden has been lifted.
I have been criticized by a handful of folks on this board for being too opinionated. But you know--I have never devalued the opinions of others by valuing my own. I enjoy debate. But I don't enjoy hurting people's feelings.
I'm glad you guys seem to know that. Thanks for all your good words and wishes.
beardy
Posted by Dinah on November 13, 2002, at 9:00:28
In reply to Worse today. Quit a job., posted by BeardedLady on November 13, 2002, at 4:01:12
I noticed yesterday how you slipped your very real life concerns into your responses rather than into your original post.
I don't see it as letting your friend down so much as recognizing your limitations. And once you've forgiven yourself, you may find it a bit easier to sleep without all that pressure on you.
It sounds, under the circumstances, as if your daughter asking about siblings could also be a reminder of your grief.
Forgive me if I am presuming too much.
May I ask you if you are significantly smarter than your therapist, and able to bamboozle him/her a bit with your intelligence? Is it at all possible you are dancing around things you need to work on? A not-so-uncommon phenomenon among the very intelligent. Again, please forgive my intrusion. It's just that you mention how your therapist assures you that you are functioning on a very high level, while I hear some pain that perhaps is not fully accounted for by biochemical causes, and that could be adding to your sleep difficulties.
By the way, has your husband tried Breathe Right strips? (My husband tells me they work well on my snoring). Or if that isn't sufficient, I hear there are some nifty laser surgeries to shrink extra tissue that are done right in the doctor's office to reduce snoring. Seems like a good nights sleep for you would be helped by a silent night from him.
Hope I haven't offended.
Dinah
Posted by BeardedLady on November 13, 2002, at 12:22:20
In reply to Re: Sorry :( » BeardedLady, posted by Dinah on November 13, 2002, at 9:00:28
> I don't see it as letting your friend down so much as recognizing your limitations. And once you've forgiven yourself, you may find it a bit easier to sleep without all that pressure on you.Yeah. I'm not a person who gives up. And now I feel like she understands and won't fault me for it and wants to cut me slack, but I would rather just ditch all the projects, and I wound up keeping one because I made it manageable. But I'm worried that it's still here, even though it's manageable.
> It sounds, under the circumstances, as if your daughter asking about siblings could also be a reminder of your grief.Maybe.
> May I ask you if you are significantly smarter than your therapist, and able to bamboozle him/her a bit with your intelligence?No. He's really a genius. And my friend I'm doing the work for? She started seeing him last week. She's really smart too. He told me how so different our personalities are that, because she organized the job in her own way, it became uncomfortable and unmanageable for me, because the emphasis was on what she likes about the project.
>Is it at all possible you are dancing around things you need to work on? A not-so-uncommon phenomenon among the very intelligent. Again, please forgive my intrusion. It's just that you mention how your therapist assures you that you are functioning on a very high level, while I hear some pain that perhaps is not fully accounted for by biochemical causes, and that could be adding to your sleep difficulties.
Lack of honesty on my part will do nothing but hinder my progress. I think we're digging into everything, including the first three minutes of sex without a condom the day before I ovulated, which immediately made me worry about being pregnant. Now the stress from the worry and lack of sleep will make my period late, I'll think I'm pregnant, and I'll stress out a lot more. To make matters worse, I won't know til next Thursday.
> By the way, has your husband tried Breathe Right strips? (My husband tells me they work well on my snoring).
I have a package of them. I don't think he's tried yet.
>
> Hope I haven't offended.How could you have?
Thanks.
Beardy
Posted by Dinah on November 13, 2002, at 13:42:28
In reply to Re: Sorry :( » Dinah, posted by BeardedLady on November 13, 2002, at 12:22:20
> >
> > Hope I haven't offended.
>
> How could you have?
>
By sticking my nose where it doesn't belong, of course.But truly, I'm sorry you have so much on your plate right now. It seems perfectly reasonable that you would be having trouble sleeping. I guess there's an up side and a down side to that. The down side is that until things quiet down, you might have trouble sleeping. The up side is that you don't have to worry so much that you'll never be able to sleep again, or any of those things that tend to run through our heads on sleepless nights.
Good luck with everything, Beardy. I'm sure you'll feel better as these things are resolved.
Dinah
Posted by mair on November 13, 2002, at 14:05:37
In reply to Worse today. Quit a job., posted by BeardedLady on November 13, 2002, at 4:01:12
Hi Beardy
I'm so sorry to hear you're crashing. I was reading through these posts and realized I'd probably just say the same thing Dinah did. You DO have a lot on your plate now, or certainly on your mind - and all of it of the stress-producing variety. The whole deal with your friend and your job I know is a mixed bag - it sounds like a really good idea to have refused to continue with some of this work - when you start to feel a little better I think you'll really appreciate not having that additional burden. On the other hand, I know how much I hate to disappoint people - our own mental health never seems like a good enough excuse to give to anyone else - it would probably seem like a perfectly reasonable explanation to her, but probably to you it feels like you've wronged her in some way. Maybe this is not how it goes for you - this is just more my experience. It's difficult for me to give myself permission to do or not do something because of my mental health, and even more difficult for me to communicate to someone else how important it is that I stick by my decision.
Anyway, I hope you don't read this for awhile becuase you're sleeping the afternoon away. This mood state will pass - maybe that's a good mantra to use while meditating your stressors away (<;
Take heart anyway from all the cyber ((( ))) being sent your way.
Mair
Posted by BeardedLady on November 13, 2002, at 14:14:05
In reply to Re: Worse today. Quit a job. » BeardedLady, posted by mair on November 13, 2002, at 14:05:37
Been crying all day, whenever daughter's not in the room. Still can't seem to stick to guns about quitting job. One albatross of a brochure, though I have a handle on it, is still here.
All I can think about is how I have to sleep because two hours is killing me here, and I have the tendency to do this for a few days in a row.
I don't know if Ativan will work. It didn't work when I first took it back when I first got insomnia, but I wasn't on Serzone then. So I'm nervous.
I'm to take an Ativan at 8:30. Then I'm to take 300 mg Serzone at bedtime, instead of 150 and then another 150 when I wake (I always wake). And then I'm to take another Ativan if I wake up in the early hours.
I am really nervous. Will the ativan at least make me feel less stressed out, or will I have this awful breakthough?
Please don't redirect me. I really can't focus enough on the PB board for just this one question. Please. I can hardly see between my sore eyes, headache, and tears.
Gosh, where am I? This is so not myself.
I spent the whole day writing a press release, doing a newsletter article, working on the job I quit, doing therapy, washing dishes, and paying bills FOR TWO HOURS--16 bills. I'm going to the post office and to pick up my prescription.
Wish I were sleeping.
beardy
Posted by ShelliR on November 13, 2002, at 19:11:43
In reply to so hard, thanks mair » mair, posted by BeardedLady on November 13, 2002, at 14:14:05
please send me another.
Shelli
Posted by Gracie2 on November 13, 2002, at 23:44:34
In reply to so hard, thanks mair » mair, posted by BeardedLady on November 13, 2002, at 14:14:05
Posted by judy1 on November 14, 2002, at 0:18:09
In reply to Seroquel, Seroquel, Seroquel. (nm), posted by Gracie2 on November 13, 2002, at 23:44:34
I'll have to agree with this one. It WILL knock you out- I've been about as manic as they come, up 48 hours- and 200mg of seroquel- I slept for 12 hours. Only if the benzos don't work though. wishing you sweet dreams and hoping you feel better- judy
Posted by BeardedLady on November 14, 2002, at 9:31:59
In reply to Re: Seroquel, Seroquel, Seroquel., posted by judy1 on November 14, 2002, at 0:18:09
Went to bed at 9:30 and woke up at three. Took another and woke at 7:30. Still a little clumsy and uncoordinated. But less tired and more calm.
Since my dog is dead, I had a good reason to quit the rest of that job, too, so know I don't feel so bad about now finishing that one portion.
I have to go. I shouldn't be writing on the board anymore. Thanks for caring and inquiring.
Posted by Dinah on November 15, 2002, at 11:10:32
In reply to for all, esp. dinah and shar, posted by BeardedLady on November 12, 2002, at 18:54:08
Beardy, I know you've got a lot on your mind now, and I don't mean to bother you.
But this post has been on my mind for a few days, as I was a bit puzzled.
I always get the feeling that I'm in a completely different relationship with someone than they are with me. I only remember one incident between us, and I can assure you that I blamed that one completely on myself. I have never borne you any ill will over it. Mind you, my memory is atrocious. :)
Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that. Not a big deal.
Obviously I have no idea what is going on right now, but I'm sorry you're hurting.
Posted by shar on November 17, 2002, at 21:33:43
In reply to Re: Sorry :( » Dinah, posted by BeardedLady on November 13, 2002, at 12:22:20
You said about your T:
> He told me how so different our personalities are that, because she organized the job in her own way, it became uncomfortable and unmanageable for me, because the emphasis was on what she likes about the project.
>
I think that is a great insight, and something that can occur without a lot of noise so we don't always notice it. I'm going to remember this one for sure, because I've just started to do some work in my sister's business, which has stirred up a load of crap (and I recognized immediately what your T was talking about because it's part of what's happening).As to other stuff, I've always sort of viewed our ups and downs as a roller coaster ride, and I appreciate your directness and ability to put things into perspective (meaning you don't take everything personally). When the two of us are discussing or debating or sparring or having a battle of wits, I don't feel I have to tippy toe, and I like that a lot. It has gotten heated, and it has been fun at times, too....sort of like life in action. But, when I saw that title of your first post, I felt nothing but true concern about your well-being.
Could be so we can live to spar another day, but whatever the reason, my hope is for you to feel better and not suffer these trials.
Great good luck to you in working things out. I bet you already know these things can take time and yada yada yada so I won't go into all that.
Shar
This is the end of the thread.
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