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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tabitha on June 23, 2002, at 7:11:34
Stupid, stupid, stupid. You know how SSRIs and alcohol don't mix? I know this. I ignored this. My tummy hurts. Sleep cycle ruined. Sobriety ruined. Self respect eroded. No one to blame but self.
My not very close friend is dating my former boyfriend (the one I haven't quite gotten over), she calls for the first time in like a year to tell me how hard it is for her that she can't tell me about how excited she is about their upcoming vacation, going across the country so he can meet her parents.
I told her when they started dating I did not want to lose her friendship, but I did not want to hear the details about them. This is not unreasonable, is it? Naturally I kept hoping theyd break up, and she kept managing to let it slip how well things were going. I was not upset when the friendship lapsed, because frankly it was TOO DARN PAINFUL to me. Now this. I'm supposed to do for her--what? Validate her pain? I feel totally dumped on. We were never that close to even have this kind of talk!
Lots of noise in the background, turns out she's calling from her Landmark Forum class, this is her homework assignment. Oh, how <insert bad word here> is that? She's ignoring my stated limits to do her homework assignment? The news of their vacation knocks me flat, I'm already having a rough patch. The twistedness of the both of them. I was active alcoholic when we dated, I thought my drinking was one of the problems, yet here he is dating ANOTHER active alcoholic (her), and he got into this stupid Landmark Forum cult, and got her into it, and she already tried to recruit me (they get pressured to recruit others). I can't respect the either of them anymore. But it still knocks me flat to get this call.
No sense! And no dignity, retreating into wine coolers. Oh, let this weekend be over. My therapist thank god was able to call, had to patiently remind me why drinking is not a good way to deal with sudden emotional pain. I used to know this so well. Oh, my stomach. Again. Oh.
Please tell me that my "friend" and my ex are big dumb idiots and that alcohol and tabitha do not mix.
Posted by mist on June 23, 2002, at 11:42:07
In reply to Oh, my stomach..., posted by tabitha on June 23, 2002, at 7:11:34
Your "friend" sounds insensitive or maybe even passive aggressive. Maybe screen your calls and don't talk to her?
I don't know what Landmark Forum is.
Probably if you used alcohol to cope in the past it isn't too surprising you would reach for it when something is so painful catches you off guard, but as you know—it's not worth it! If you haven't been drinking for awhile, I imagine you've developed other, better coping habits that you can turn to if something like this happens again.
Hope you feel better!
> Stupid, stupid, stupid. You know how SSRIs and alcohol don't mix? I know this. I ignored this. My tummy hurts. Sleep cycle ruined. Sobriety ruined. Self respect eroded. No one to blame but self.
>
> My not very close friend is dating my former boyfriend (the one I haven't quite gotten over), she calls for the first time in like a year to tell me how hard it is for her that she can't tell me about how excited she is about their upcoming vacation, going across the country so he can meet her parents.
>
> I told her when they started dating I did not want to lose her friendship, but I did not want to hear the details about them. This is not unreasonable, is it? Naturally I kept hoping theyd break up, and she kept managing to let it slip how well things were going. I was not upset when the friendship lapsed, because frankly it was TOO DARN PAINFUL to me. Now this. I'm supposed to do for her--what? Validate her pain? I feel totally dumped on. We were never that close to even have this kind of talk!
>
> Lots of noise in the background, turns out she's calling from her Landmark Forum class, this is her homework assignment. Oh, how <insert bad word here> is that? She's ignoring my stated limits to do her homework assignment? The news of their vacation knocks me flat, I'm already having a rough patch. The twistedness of the both of them. I was active alcoholic when we dated, I thought my drinking was one of the problems, yet here he is dating ANOTHER active alcoholic (her), and he got into this stupid Landmark Forum cult, and got her into it, and she already tried to recruit me (they get pressured to recruit others). I can't respect the either of them anymore. But it still knocks me flat to get this call.
>
> No sense! And no dignity, retreating into wine coolers. Oh, let this weekend be over. My therapist thank god was able to call, had to patiently remind me why drinking is not a good way to deal with sudden emotional pain. I used to know this so well. Oh, my stomach. Again. Oh.
>
> Please tell me that my "friend" and my ex are big dumb idiots and that alcohol and tabitha do not mix.
Posted by shar on June 23, 2002, at 14:57:44
In reply to Oh, my stomach..., posted by tabitha on June 23, 2002, at 7:11:34
These 2 people sound like they deserve each other. And imho you are well rid of them...even if you still have remnants of feelings. What an awful thing she did, how thoughtless, uncaring.
I hope you have some real friends to talk to, and will talk to them (instead of isolating). Good luck. Next time, just hang up; it's ok to be self protective around people who are irresponsible toward you.
It really burns me to hear about that.
S
Posted by tabitha on June 23, 2002, at 16:11:40
In reply to I hope you start feeling better; what bozoheads! » tabitha, posted by shar on June 23, 2002, at 14:57:44
Morning is better. Poured remaining wine down sink. Wrote scathing emails to them but thought better of actually mailing.What happens to people? I used to respect his intelligence and judgement so much, now he's pushing this silly Forum on people (mist-- it's repackaged "est" training, with big emphasis on recruiting others). I used to respect her social grace, now she is doing such graceless things.
My therapist wants to do EMDR to help me get over this guy. I think EMDR is a little flaky but I'm willing to try.
Perhaps this will be for the best. It's easier to let go of people when they do things to make you lose respect. Sad to say. Sad to lose respect.
Posted by mist on June 23, 2002, at 18:35:29
In reply to Mist and Shar, thanks, posted by tabitha on June 23, 2002, at 16:11:40
>now he's pushing this silly Forum on people (mist-- it's repackaged "est" training, with big emphasis on recruiting others).
Yuck. That makes their behavior especially tacky.
One thing I've thought a lot about recently is the mystery (to me) of people changing for the worse. There have been people I've admired and appreciated who after some change in their life (marriage, in the case of one person I'm thinking of) lost all the great qualities that made them so special. I understand people growing and changing for the better, but have a hard time understanding how the opposite can happen.
Posted by tabitha on June 25, 2002, at 5:23:31
In reply to People changing for the worse, posted by mist on June 23, 2002, at 18:35:29
I suppose it must seem like the change is for the better to them.
-----------------------------------------------
Oh, my, I just sent a long email to my "friend" in response to her latest attempts to interest me in the Forum. I told her my whole genuine opinion of that group. The difficult thing is, this whole part of my social circle is career related (many work in my field), and with all except the guy who's dating my "friend", I've never come out of the closet about being in therapy and bipolar and on psych meds. It makes me nervous just telling her my opinion, since it might reveal the terrible truth-- I'M IN THERAPY. I'VE BEEN IN THERAPY FOREVER!
Every now and then I'll own up to being on psych meds, but I never lose the embarrassement over going to therapy.
Posted by Phil on June 25, 2002, at 12:47:18
In reply to I hope you start feeling better; what bozoheads! » tabitha, posted by shar on June 23, 2002, at 14:57:44
You have the wisdom that my mother had about people and, like you, she could sum it up in a few short sentences.
The trouble with you and me is that we can't see it in ourselves(our goodness). Let's work on that. Or, at least have a tummy tuck or a hair implant(both for me). By God, we'll whoop this cotton-pickin brain malfunction.
Posted by shar on June 25, 2002, at 23:40:53
In reply to Shar I love you..you are the best., posted by Phil on June 25, 2002, at 12:47:18
ok, but let's both have the tummy tuck and the hair implant, and see whose comes out best!
8-)
Shar
Posted by Phil on June 26, 2002, at 6:42:30
In reply to ...you are the best. » Phil, posted by shar on June 25, 2002, at 23:40:53
You know, if a guy has a bald spot, they should do a face lift on the top of his head. If you did a side to side stretch and sew, his ears would be moved up a few inches thereby being relocated to the top-side of the cranius(; )
Ears would be at a 45 degree angle to the sun. Have to be careful in the shower.
Tummy tucks probably aren't necessary. I would just recommend that people have about 30 styrofoam peanuts for breakfast. They probably don't break down and there's no added weight or room for ding-dongs.
Posted by SandraDee on June 27, 2002, at 14:43:15
In reply to Re: ...you are the best. » shar, posted by Phil on June 26, 2002, at 6:42:30
Posted by tabitha on June 28, 2002, at 3:46:52
In reply to My new diet of styrofoam peanuts! Thanks Phil!! (nm) » Phil, posted by SandraDee on June 27, 2002, at 14:43:15
Phil I'm sure you look better with your ears in their current location rather than 45 degrees north ;)
Now back to my whole rancid drama...
-----------------------------------------------My friend replied to my email with a whole list of how her life is better since the forum.
I realized that the guy I used to date, who's now dating the friend, who dropped me unexpectedly with no explanation, did so right after his first forum class. I knew nothing about it at the time so I made no connection.
I also dredged up the last email he sent, the last time I asked to talk about our ending, to help me understand, and now recognize that the odd and emotionally empty things he said are jargon from the forum.
So here it is, the guy I was intensely close to drops me suddenly after his forum class, and the girl I was not close to at all suddently wants to be "close" after her forum class.
For over 5 years I've been hung up wondering why this guy dropped me like that, and hurting over it. How I wish he could have just acknowledged the relationship was too painful and he needed to end it to protect himself.
I'm still not finding it easy to let go of these two. I'm recycling my anger.
Posted by tabitha on June 29, 2002, at 15:21:20
In reply to enough fun, back to me and my pain..., posted by tabitha on June 28, 2002, at 3:46:52
Trying to let go of Alan, did a whole therapy session on it, ended up crying about dreams I'd had lately about my (dead) mother.Got to these ideas in my journal. Alan was there right after her death. She left my life, Alan came in. Alan was like compensation for her loss. So (my irrational thinking goes) I'm cosmically entitled to keep him forever. Without Alan there is only grief. (Must have been a big burden to Alan to replace my mother for me, if he sensed it at all)
More sadness about her loss. Really endless.
Posted by Reneb on June 29, 2002, at 20:32:49
In reply to Re: still working this..., posted by tabitha on June 29, 2002, at 15:21:20
>
> Trying to let go of Alan, did a whole therapy session on it, ended up crying about dreams I'd had lately about my (dead) mother.
>
> Got to these ideas in my journal. Alan was there right after her death. She left my life, Alan came in. Alan was like compensation for her loss. So (my irrational thinking goes) I'm cosmically entitled to keep him forever. Without Alan there is only grief. (Must have been a big burden to Alan to replace my mother for me, if he sensed it at all)
>
> More sadness about her loss. Really endless.Hi, you post hit so close to home. My Mom just passed away May 6th. I don't know exactly how I am feeling. I only know that I have such a big void in my life and I am afraid it will never go away. You said you had dreams about your Mom? Did she come to talk to you?
Renee
Posted by tabitha on June 30, 2002, at 17:37:07
In reply to Re: still working this... » tabitha, posted by Reneb on June 29, 2002, at 20:32:49
I'm so sorry about your mom. Mine died March 9, 1995. I was in a strong state of grief for 2 years, then it started to change. I'd go back into grief around the anniversary of her death, or when something reminded me of her. Now it comes and goes. I believe it's a lifelong process. This may sound odd, but now I almost welcome the sadness, since it means I'm still connected to her. I have a lot more love for her now than when she was alive, since our relationship was tense. I'm grateful for that.About the dreams, she never really talks to me. Shortly after her death, I had a beautiful dream with me and her and her mother (who died a year before she did), where we were all dancing together. It was so precious! Lately she just appeared as her normal self in a couple of dreams, just "there" doing nothing special.
Losing her was the hardest thing I ever went through, but there were also blessings. Before she died I didn't really know how to grieve any type of loss, which contributed to my depressions. I was lucky to have a good therapist and one good friend to help me through it.
A cliche but true -- your mom will always live in your heart.
-tabitha
Posted by Reneb on June 30, 2002, at 21:28:39
In reply to Re: losing mom » Reneb, posted by tabitha on June 30, 2002, at 17:37:07
>
> I'm so sorry about your mom. Mine died March 9, 1995. I was in a strong state of grief for 2 years, then it started to change. I'd go back into grief around the anniversary of her death, or when something reminded me of her. Now it comes and goes. I believe it's a lifelong process. This may sound odd, but now I almost welcome the sadness, since it means I'm still connected to her. I have a lot more love for her now than when she was alive, since our relationship was tense. I'm grateful for that.
>
> About the dreams, she never really talks to me. Shortly after her death, I had a beautiful dream with me and her and her mother (who died a year before she did), where we were all dancing together. It was so precious! Lately she just appeared as her normal self in a couple of dreams, just "there" doing nothing special.
>
> Losing her was the hardest thing I ever went through, but there were also blessings. Before she died I didn't really know how to grieve any type of loss, which contributed to my depressions. I was lucky to have a good therapist and one good friend to help me through it.
>
> A cliche but true -- your mom will always live in your heart.
> -tabithaHi Tabitha, Thank you for your kind words. I was very close to my Mom. She gave me such a gift before she died. She turned to me one day and told me that I should never feel guilty because everytime I needed you...you were there. I carry that with me all the time. I just wish I could really cry. Sometimes I will tear up and a few tears fall and then I stop?? It's like if I give in to it then I have to let her go. I know she is gone and I know she is happy. I have all these emotions and don't know what to do with them. My family struggled with her sickness for almost 2 years. I knew it was going to happen, but that doesn't make it any easier. You are right about the pain. I tell everyone the only thing that would be more painful is if something happened to my daughter. Then you would have to put me away....there's no way I could handle that.
Thanks for listening,
Renee
Posted by Gracie2 on July 3, 2002, at 18:20:12
In reply to Re: losing mom » tabitha, posted by Reneb on June 30, 2002, at 21:28:39
I went through a long period where I was grieving over my son. I had not "lost" him through death,
only that he was getting older and did not need me anymore. We had been so close while he was growing up, but as he grew older we became distant. I tried to tell myself that it was healthy and natural for him to leave me and start his own life. But I missed him and his affection so much, I was in constant pain.
Then I read the book "Angela's Ashes", a true story of a poor family in Ireland. Angela, the mother, endured extreme suffering through her alcoholic husband, who rarely worked and drank his wages when he did. The Catholic family continued to produce children who died or suffered from starvation and want.
I tried to put myself in the place of this poor woman, Angela, who watched her children die, who tried to sleep while her children cried from "the hunger", who was unable to provide them with decent clothes or shoes.
At least I had the good memories of my own son's childhood. I was able to feed him and provide him with medical care, regular meals, clothes, books, toys, sports.
I decided that even though my son and I no longer enjoyed the close relationship that I had treasured for so many years, at least I had these wonderful memories.
That's how you should think of your Mom - you should appreciate the memories. I never got along with my own Mom - she's selfish, selfish, selfish.
-Gracie
Posted by Reneb on July 3, 2002, at 19:31:20
In reply to Re: losing mom, posted by Gracie2 on July 3, 2002, at 18:20:12
>
> I went through a long period where I was grieving over my son. I had not "lost" him through death,
> only that he was getting older and did not need me anymore. We had been so close while he was growing up, but as he grew older we became distant. I tried to tell myself that it was healthy and natural for him to leave me and start his own life. But I missed him and his affection so much, I was in constant pain.
> Then I read the book "Angela's Ashes", a true story of a poor family in Ireland. Angela, the mother, endured extreme suffering through her alcoholic husband, who rarely worked and drank his wages when he did. The Catholic family continued to produce children who died or suffered from starvation and want.
> I tried to put myself in the place of this poor woman, Angela, who watched her children die, who tried to sleep while her children cried from "the hunger", who was unable to provide them with decent clothes or shoes.
> At least I had the good memories of my own son's childhood. I was able to feed him and provide him with medical care, regular meals, clothes, books, toys, sports.
> I decided that even though my son and I no longer enjoyed the close relationship that I had treasured for so many years, at least I had these wonderful memories.
> That's how you should think of your Mom - you should appreciate the memories. I never got along with my own Mom - she's selfish, selfish, selfish.
> -Gracie
Hi Gracie, I do remember the good times. I have some great memories. It's just that I miss her so much and don't know what to do with the pain. I guess it will get better in time. I know she is in a much better place and not in anymore pain.I understand completely about your son. I have a daughter that is turning 13 soon. I can't believe how fast these last 13 yrs have gone by. I to think about when she will go off on her own and it makes me very sad now. She laughs at me when I tell her I am going to miss her very much when she goes.
I'm truly sorry about your relationship with your Mom. Can you tell me why she is so selfish? How about your Dad? I don't have a very good relationship with my Dad. I have a hard time watching him cry over her when all he did was treat her terribly.
Thanks for sharing,
Renee
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