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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by susan C on June 18, 2002, at 13:01:15
Ok, Ok, I am probably over reacting here, but I need some reactions. And THAT is what I can get here, so go to it.
First some back ground. (lets see if I can make this clear) My father was very ill with face pain, depression ect alcohol and drugs for a long time. My brother was dx paranoid schiz, hallucinated and talked to little green people. oh, and god, and later killed himself three months after dad died of cancer. I have dealt with some kind of depression/bipolar illness for years, being home bound for sometime. I have just recently become so angry at being ill I am doing things inspite of the panic, the axiety, the dizziness and confusion and fatigue. One of those things is walking with a group.
The previous walk the conversation went to "a beautifl mind" and i said, as father brother and I were ill, i would appreciate not talking about that, have not seen movie, etc. and everyone said, oh that is good you said something, of course, we will change subject. Then last night went to ...Ya Ya...movie with this same general group and had to leave theater at one point, due to violence on camera....At dinner someone said, oh of course the mother was crazy she was abused by her mother...So, one person in the walking group was there at the movie also, and I explained I cant do children being hurt and psychoic episodes.
The point of the post is, there was a newish person in the walking group today, who wanted to share about a show on elephants...commenting on the relative size of brains (she is a neurobiologist/studying to help people with chronic pain, something she has dealt with for a long time....)and how the lemporal lobe receives sound, low frequency, and how this is the same area of the brain that has been stimulated in humans and people have spiritual experiences... and how great it must be to be an elephant to have this big area being stimulated all the time.
So, I cant quite believe what I am hearing. I open my big mouth and say, are you saying this stiumation is a real experience of god, or that the stimulation of this area of the brain is perceived as an experience of god? A real perception she says. The other person comments, maybe both, who knows, (I like this lady)
She also commented about how small children perceive migranes as visual little people, and when told they are not they go away...I said, so, you are saying the little green people/god my brother saw and talked to really do exist? And she said, is he mentally ill? I said, yes. Well, that is a pathologic illness..and I said, how can a physiological illness, that causes psychological problems, be dismissed as being caused by something that was done psychologically to that person.
I am sorry if i am not making sense. This has been a very hard two week. Maybe I am trying too hard. I try to remember that most normal people even ones who say they are planning to be therapists or are therapists, really dont have a clue...and that there really are 'schools of thought" and that if this lady wants to persue a new age your brain can receive signals from god approach to dealing to chronic pain, who am i to argue. And who am I to make a judgement and get bent out of shape and prejudge based on just a few minutes of conversation. And WHO AM I to say I even MADE sense as I was talking to her????
a mortified mouse
ikes, is this a pps or a pbfaith thread??
Posted by omega man on June 18, 2002, at 14:41:18
In reply to Elephants' temporal lo be and being a receiver , posted by susan C on June 18, 2002, at 13:01:15
ok had to unjumble some of that but I think I get it...they took you to see the movie to help you understand..how real things can seem..when they're in your mind..is this why youre going in to questions about whether the neurology of spiritual experience or Extra sensory perceptions is real ?..
my conclusion is, it does'nt matter if there is no answer..if youre prone to this kind of stuff..its whether you can find ways to enjoy it..
I think this thread will get the "redirectors cut" real soon...
Posted by omega man on June 18, 2002, at 15:09:08
In reply to Elephants' temporal lo be and being a receiver , posted by susan C on June 18, 2002, at 13:01:15
that was'nt a very helpfull reply in that I'm not giving an answer...
I've found with the "psychic" or percpetual distortions that affect me ..the first line is to try and make the best of it...
also something vital which many people never do is to say is the experience a shared one ? or specific to being with particular people..
For some ESP only seems to happen with certain people who strangley enough also have the "gift" or curse depending on how you experience it..
The hardest thing..and the most confusing about perceptions that are'nt filtered and processed like an average brain is that some of us can pick up on and transmit mental states most people are blind to...I believe this is a facet called Quantum entanglement that can project electrical states like the distributed memories in a brain region..with a faded representation of the original..maybe over miles..I just saw that some guys in Australia used this knowledge to Teleport a radio signal across a room..they say they can amplify it over Kilometres..
The answers to ESP, spiritual etc.. are looking to prove positve as time goes by..
Where the problems lie is that at the same time the regions of the brain that cause this (sensiromotor gating) which are two way transmit recieve systems..(open on all frequencies at once..which is why schizophrenia is confusing and stops leading a normal life..) makes us prone to hearing and seeing our own internal process as external...
If the experience is crystal clear..say a vision..like in the movie where John Nash sees people as crystal clear and consistantly replayed perceptions...then its internal while if its percieved as a faded fragment..like whispers or impressions its external
Posted by omega man on June 18, 2002, at 15:50:32
In reply to Re: shared perceptions.. » susan C, posted by omega man on June 18, 2002, at 15:09:08
I love this stuff..theres so few who have the experience to motivate understanding and learning about it..
I forgot about one key thing that bothered me about the film a beautifull mind and which makes me just go against what I said about crystal clear replays being internal..
John Nash sees "dead people" basically..the rest is just the directors making nashes confusion about what he thought was expected of him by the FBI seem crystal clear..but thats just an interpretation..also the whole movie is a highly cynical view of his reality..I mean the " so called hallucinated" people he sees..
Quantum entanglement..which einstein discovered and wished he had'nt... explains...the projection of "ghost fields" but that too would be to missasign cause and effect..The ghost field is a property of where it comes from or an echo..
When the transmitter or energy source of the field is cut..like at death of an active brain...then the entangled echo gains independant solidity ..this realization about electromagnetic systems (like a brain) is why teleportation is now a reality in science....the teleportation is only possible (so far ) by the destruction of the source...the reasons are too hard to explain briefly.
This provided a scientific explanation of the soul that few but the scientists who work in these areas understand...now no longer a theory ..but a reality...so I take back what I said in the last post..
Its a very exciting time to posess psychic abilites..or should I say, now we have the technology to harness these understandings..and prove it hopefully someday soon...the labels like Schizophrenia will be a less severe damnation of your reality and the more positive thing they were when people could be prophets..
I tend to contradict myself..just because of the complexity of these issues..hence some of my posts on PSFaith will go against what I just said.
That is part of the "craziness" the eternal questioning..which I hope you can now do less of..now I did the science bit for you.I felt really bad after seeing that movie too...really very dissapointed at the short sightedness of Ron Howard (director) who I thought would be aware enough of the stuff I just discussed to not judge John nash (and hence all sufferers of such psychiatric labels) with such cynical conviction.
was'nt Ron howard the nerd in "fonz" who knew everything ??
Posted by wendy b. on June 18, 2002, at 16:16:43
In reply to Elephants' temporal lo be and being a receiver , posted by susan C on June 18, 2002, at 13:01:15
SusanMouse,
You maybe are over-reacting. So what? Go easy on yourself...
You are very frustrated (sounds like) over what this elephant-woman said, it doesn't make sense to you? If it doesn't and you have something to say, say it! What do you mean: "WHO AM I TO JUDGE..." etc.? You are someone who has been through a lot! You are someone who had a brother be ill and kill himself. You had a father who was ill. You suffer from bipolar, etc. You have been through a lot of meds, you have found out as much as you can about them and about your illness... So you have a lot to say.
So this woman is a neurobiologist. So what? This disqualifies YOU from saying what you know to be true? Not.
The issue is: do you want to get "into it" with this person, who matters not too much in the big scheme of things. And this is where it gets frustrating and confusing. You know you have a lot to say on the matter, but you hesitate to tell your side of the picture, because part of you says: "Who cares?"
The thing is: do you care or not? If not, don't get too worked up over it (hard, I know this feeling VERY well). Sometimes it's just better to conserve energy and not bother. But I understand you want to be able to take part in intelligent discussions, to say your own, unique, point of view. You don't want your illness to limit you from normal activities such as this walking along and talking to another human being. you want to be able to be light and breezy... I do get it...
I will go now, will check back later. Taking daughter to her shrink appointment... We're all doin' it!
love,
Wendy
> Ok, Ok, I am probably over reacting here, but I need some reactions. And THAT is what I can get here, so go to it.
>
> First some back ground. (lets see if I can make this clear) My father was very ill with face pain, depression ect alcohol and drugs for a long time. My brother was dx paranoid schiz, hallucinated and talked to little green people. oh, and god, and later killed himself three months after dad died of cancer. I have dealt with some kind of depression/bipolar illness for years, being home bound for sometime. I have just recently become so angry at being ill I am doing things inspite of the panic, the axiety, the dizziness and confusion and fatigue. One of those things is walking with a group.
>
> The previous walk the conversation went to "a beautifl mind" and i said, as father brother and I were ill, i would appreciate not talking about that, have not seen movie, etc. and everyone said, oh that is good you said something, of course, we will change subject. Then last night went to ...Ya Ya...movie with this same general group and had to leave theater at one point, due to violence on camera....At dinner someone said, oh of course the mother was crazy she was abused by her mother...So, one person in the walking group was there at the movie also, and I explained I cant do children being hurt and psychoic episodes.
>
> The point of the post is, there was a newish person in the walking group today, who wanted to share about a show on elephants...commenting on the relative size of brains (she is a neurobiologist/studying to help people with chronic pain, something she has dealt with for a long time....)and how the lemporal lobe receives sound, low frequency, and how this is the same area of the brain that has been stimulated in humans and people have spiritual experiences... and how great it must be to be an elephant to have this big area being stimulated all the time.
>
> So, I cant quite believe what I am hearing. I open my big mouth and say, are you saying this stiumation is a real experience of god, or that the stimulation of this area of the brain is perceived as an experience of god? A real perception she says. The other person comments, maybe both, who knows, (I like this lady)
>
> She also commented about how small children perceive migranes as visual little people, and when told they are not they go away...I said, so, you are saying the little green people/god my brother saw and talked to really do exist? And she said, is he mentally ill? I said, yes. Well, that is a pathologic illness..and I said, how can a physiological illness, that causes psychological problems, be dismissed as being caused by something that was done psychologically to that person.
>
> I am sorry if i am not making sense. This has been a very hard two week. Maybe I am trying too hard. I try to remember that most normal people even ones who say they are planning to be therapists or are therapists, really dont have a clue...and that there really are 'schools of thought" and that if this lady wants to persue a new age your brain can receive signals from god approach to dealing to chronic pain, who am i to argue. And who am I to make a judgement and get bent out of shape and prejudge based on just a few minutes of conversation. And WHO AM I to say I even MADE sense as I was talking to her????
>
> a mortified mouse
> ikes, is this a pps or a pbfaith thread??
Posted by beardedlady on June 18, 2002, at 16:22:26
In reply to Elephants' temporal lo be and being a receiver , posted by susan C on June 18, 2002, at 13:01:15
Susan:
I really have no idea what you're talking about. Is your problem with the elephant conversation? Did the woman say that elephants have a "god spot" that's stimulated all the time? (That's on the Faith board.) And she said it's the same place that's stimulated when a child has a migraine? And migraines are often mistaken for little green men and god? And once you tell a kid it's a migraine, the kid stops seeing little green men and god? Or the migraines stop?
I am completely confused.
As for the Ya Yas, a friend recommended that insipid book--bought both for me, in fact, and wanted to discuss them. I read them and thought they were just awful. Books of fiction that made it okay to abuse your kids (almost sexually, at times) physically and emotionally? A book that romanticized drunks? A book that made these nasty, foul women out to be some kind of heroes? Oy vey. Give me a break.
I was never abused, and I usually don't have a problem discussing any topic. But I am no longer friendly with the person who gave those books to me. (She was an undiagnosed/unadmitted bipolar, not that it really matters.)
beardy
Posted by susan C on June 18, 2002, at 18:13:15
In reply to Re: huh? » susan C, posted by beardedlady on June 18, 2002, at 16:22:26
O-M, Thanks for your responses. Your posts are overwhelming and will take a bit for me brain to investigate. I did not see a beautiful mind, nor will I, so I wont be making sense of any of those references.
Wendy, oh support, and so clear, thank you dear.
Beardy, Huh? Thats what I said, when I re read what I posted. Yes, it is the 'god spot' (now I will have to read the faith board;0. I think I got lost on the kids and green men part...
You clearly hit the writings/movie bulls eye.
And, I see, with all you's help, as I re enter and re interact with people, I will have to remember I don't have to be 'friendly' with everyone.
skittish mouse
Posted by bookgurl99 on June 19, 2002, at 1:41:57
In reply to Elephants' temporal lo be and being a receiver , posted by susan C on June 18, 2002, at 13:01:15
I've heard the same thing -- that certain portions of the temporal lobe, when stimulated, will create perceptions of spiritual encounters.
For me it's interesting, because there are several epileptics in my family AND we have all seen an angel/ghost at some point.
Perhaps, though, what we perceive is not fake, but is rather due to a 'special sense' in that part of the brain. Maybe it IS real. Or MAYBE it's just that the stimulated temporal lobe interprets what it sees in the way that makes the most sense to the brain.
I am really sorry, though, that your brother had to suffer due to medical ignorance of what he was going through. It must be really hard to hear others discuss it flippantly.
I think, though, that you're making great progress by getting out into the world. If you keep doing normal activities, eventually you'll feel ''normal'' while doing them.
Good luck!
Posted by Krazy Kat on June 20, 2002, at 15:14:55
In reply to Re: huh? » susan C, posted by beardedlady on June 18, 2002, at 16:22:26
Posted by Krazy Kat on June 20, 2002, at 15:20:08
In reply to Re: Elephants' temporal lo be and being a receiver , posted by bookgurl99 on June 19, 2002, at 1:41:57
I haven't seen many from you, but then I am flying over cuba most of the time these days, dreaming of lucy and ricky...
> For me it's interesting, because there are several epileptics in my family AND we have all seen an angel/ghost at some point.
This absolutely fascinates me. I have wondered why, if God is around and active in our lives, we don't have prophets and visions any longer. Could it be that we have closed ourselves off to that sense? That the visions are real, but most people just can't see them, and a seizure, a manic episode, a near-death call allows that to happen? I don't know.
> It must be really hard to hear others discuss it flippantly.
Yes, this would be the biggest problem I see here. That the elephant woman has no concern for other opinions, and esp. those from a woman who has been through these experiences.
- kk
Posted by Krazy Kat on June 20, 2002, at 15:24:26
In reply to Reactions? I got! Thank you Thank you, posted by susan C on June 18, 2002, at 18:13:15
Your head sounds a little as if it's been shaking from the wheel. Mine is reeling, too. See my post re: mean psychologist man.
O-M's responses are very interesting to me, too. But I can't make head or tail of them yet with Depakote in the way.
>> I don't have to be 'friendly' with everyone.
I agree!! And we don't have to debate everything, though we know we not only know more on the subject but have super-powers far beyond their wildest imaginations. Well, that's the answer right there - people like the Elephant Woman have no imagination.
Wendy's post summed it up the clearest, don't you think?
- kk.
Posted by IsoM on June 20, 2002, at 23:42:17
In reply to Elephants' temporal lo be and being a receiver , posted by susan C on June 18, 2002, at 13:01:15
Little mouse, this is the first time I've had a chance to read your post & the answers to it.
What this woman says is basically true, but only as far as we know it. And the thing is, we still know so little! How much more will we learn 20, 50, 100, or 200 years from now? How many times will opinions & thoughts be changed each time we learn something new?
I know with migraines, I see auras. A bright, scintillating line of light & dark as it moves & gets bigger till it overwhelms my entire field of vision. I can close my eyes any night & see intricate, twisting patterns. My youngest son who's now 20, woke up one night when he was 3, calling me as he was frightened. He saw little dots of coloured lights dancing about in his vision - he wasnted to know what they were.
I know we're not seeing anything miraculous.My Mom had many of the same things, her mother did, & one other son of mine does too. It's understood now why we see these things, but there's still much that not understood. Maybe one day we will learn more.
I had read too that one saint was said to see visions. Interestingly, she drew her visions on paper & they look amazingly like migraine patterned auras. It's thought that she suffered from them because after her visions, she was sick & had to recuperate for a couple of days. Not everyone who had auras thought them to be visions, but how many other visions weren't auras or anything like it at all?
Posted by wendy b. on June 21, 2002, at 3:08:17
In reply to little mouse..., posted by Krazy Kat on June 20, 2002, at 15:24:26
> >> I don't have to be 'friendly' with everyone.
>
> I agree!! And we don't have to debate everything, though we know we not only know more on the subject but have super-powers far beyond their wildest imaginations. Well, that's the answer right there - people like the Elephant Woman have no imagination.
>
> Wendy's post summed it up the clearest, don't you think?
>
> - kk.
You're such a sweetheart, my own little cheering section. I think yours sums it up and ties it in a nice, tidy bow... Also BookGurl's was thoughtful, too...
I just really understand how Susan feels in a situation like that. You start to want to get into it with the person, and then you have to check yourself (something I find nearly impossible to do, group therapy has helped). Sometimes the best way to help yourself (even though you care very much) is just to say: who gives a shit.
(And no PBC, Bob, not directed at anyone...)love,
W.
Posted by Bookgurl99 on June 24, 2002, at 14:40:14
In reply to i really like your post » bookgurl99, posted by Krazy Kat on June 20, 2002, at 15:20:08
>
> This absolutely fascinates me. I have wondered why, if God is around and active in our lives, we don't have prophets and visions any longer. Could it be that we have closed ourselves off to that sense?I have to be honest -- when I was a kid, I prayed not to see them anymore. And now I don't. I just couldn't handle it. I wonder if it was a developmental thing (the temporal lobe growing?) or 'real.'
Lately, with the suffering I'm going through, I wonder about the existence of God/ a higher power. For me, an angel I saw when I was young -- and a dream I had at age 10 where God told me that he (strange that it was a 'he,' no? culturally relevant) would always take care of me. That's what keeps me going so far.
Right now, for me, the existence of God or multiple lives, or some force behind the universe, is the only thing that makes me able to live and handle my own personal suffering and the suffering of the multitudes in the world.
Posted by krazy kat on June 24, 2002, at 16:00:26
In reply to what do you think about god? » Krazy Kat, posted by Bookgurl99 on June 24, 2002, at 14:40:14
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 24, 2002, at 19:48:44
In reply to response on faith board - good lil' me:) (nm) » Bookgurl99, posted by krazy kat on June 24, 2002, at 16:00:26
> response on faith board - good lil' me:)
Thanks for doing that! :-)
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20020527/msgs/203.html
Bob
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