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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by beardedlady on May 28, 2002, at 11:28:20
Once in awhile, a bad night of sleep is expected--by everyone. I just feel like I'm taking Serzone to keep that from happening, so I can't understand why I don't sleep some nights.
I woke up at 3:00 a.m. Monday, and I am usually able to get back to sleep within two hours (I go to bed early enough that I'd already had six hours of sleep). This time, I didn't go back to sleep. I got up feeling, truth be told, not so tired but bummed out. But it really wrecks my self-confidence. It makes me want to jump at a sleeping pill, rather than wait it out when it happens again.
I tried to take a nap yesterday afternoon (less because I was tired and more to prove that I could sleep if I needed it), and after 30 minutes of false starts (you know, that garbage-in/garbage-out phase that's not really dreaming but that happens right before you drift off? and I always jolt awake before that happens! It's like a weird panicky feeling not letting me breathe deeply enough), I slept for twenty minutes and then another ten.
Last night was tough. It took me about 40 minutes to fall asleep, and I woke up at midnight and again at 2:15.
Not wanting to chance it, I immediately took a Sonata, but I took one that had expired in April. After 45 minutes, I still wasn't asleep, so I took one from a new prescription and slept 'til 7:00. (I didn't want to throw the old ones away because they usually still work, but I must have been too anxious last night. Should I throw them away now?)
So now I feel like s**t, groggy, out of it, foggy--I don't usually feel that way with those pills, but it's awful today.
I'm the type that needs a plan each night for "what if I wake up at 1? at 2? at 3?" My plan's gonna have to be to throw those old pills away, and only take one pill if I can't sleep, and wait it out, because I know, deep down, that I will "eventually" fall asleep, as it has often taken an hour or so for the Sonata to kick in (especially after eating a steak for dinner).
Today I'm really bummed out. I know I have gone about six months, using one Sonata per month, which ended in February. But I just kinda need someone to remind me that I'm not going to become the basket case that I became a few times when I quit my meds. It was the hardest time of my life, and I can't go back there. But here come all the negative thoughts, all my "you are weak, worthless, stupid" comments, all my blaming myself for allowing myself to get this condition in the first place, etc.
It's summer vacation in one week, and I can't figure out why it's my hardest time each year.
Anybody else go through this? Anyone able to talk me down? Er, up?
Anyway, writing it down was helpful, even if no one responds. I'm grateful for this forum.
unsleepin' beardy : (>
Posted by IsoM on May 28, 2002, at 13:33:01
In reply to trying not to spiral downward into the abyss..., posted by beardedlady on May 28, 2002, at 11:28:20
Sure, I'll respond Beire-dei. Don't really know what to say to cheer you up but will do my best.
Personally, after trying to do without meds three separate & well-tried times, I've come to realise that I'm not me - who I really am - without meds. Crap, I think, when I'm down. But when I'm feeling okay, I think of meds as much as I think of food or water. I need them to live so I take them without feeling guilty.
For me, going to bed with a full stomach is a major no-no, at least at my age. When I was young & nursing, I had to have a full stomach & used to need to get up at night to eat so I could fall asleep again. But now, a full stomach means lousy sleep. I can't eat even a medium sized meal 5 hours before bed, or I sleep lousy. Better to feel hungry before bed & then eat a small amount of light, low protein, carbohydrate-rich starchy food (with little fat) & a warm drink. It gives me the best sleep. Steak before bed would do me in. It may be entirely different with you though.
Summer vacation? Noisy school children out, yelling & making noises in your neighbourhood - does that perhaps bother you? You don't have school-age kids, if I recall. I dread the almost constant sound of lawn-mowers going in summer though I love the weather & sunshine. With open windows all day in summer heat, the middle of the night is the only time it's really quiet here. I HATE noisy neighbourhoods but have little choice (other than nuking all the neighbours which I feel like doing sometimes).
Remember that suggestion at PPB I made to help you relax before you went on a flight? Want me to come with a soft, but heavy mallet to help you sleep? If we get an IV drip going before the sleep-inducing thump, we can start adding some IV painkillers about an hour before you're due to awaken & you won't notice that egg-sized lump on the back of your head.
Posted by beardedlady on May 28, 2002, at 15:12:19
In reply to Re: sounds like going down the toilet...spiralling » beardedlady, posted by IsoM on May 28, 2002, at 13:33:01
Posted by IsoM on May 28, 2002, at 15:32:37
In reply to Re: where my humor's gone--toilet. (nm) » IsoM, posted by beardedlady on May 28, 2002, at 15:12:19
Posted by alii on May 28, 2002, at 15:55:08
In reply to trying not to spiral downward into the abyss..., posted by beardedlady on May 28, 2002, at 11:28:20
Okay beardy,
Here ya go: Blame me. Simple as that. Put all that energy you are using now to beat yerself up and channel it my way.
Build a shrine to me and write up all this nasty stuff yer mind is poisoning you with and lay it on my altar. I'll take on all the bad heeby jeebies for you.
This is a pure offer from my heart.
As for the sleep...I'm in similar boat. No weakness.....for me it is part of my illness/disease. Such is my life for now. For always? Who knows? I used to think a step haircut looked good on me so shows you what I know. ;)
I wish you peaceful thoughts and snuggly sleep.
Send all your negativity my way and all will improve. It's worth a shot, no? Ha ha
Hope you can see humour in this bearded wonder.
Namaste.
alii
Posted by katekite on May 28, 2002, at 18:14:13
In reply to trying not to spiral downward into the abyss..., posted by beardedlady on May 28, 2002, at 11:28:20
Hi beardy,
don't be depressed (isn't that effective and helpful?)
I was just reading (since today I'm obsessively reaading the internet without stopping) that sleep deprivation actually has good and anti-depressive qualities.
For example in women who get bad pms, if they wake them up at 3 in the morning one or two nights the week of PMS they don't get nearly as bad symptoms.
Also the fact that light wakes you up earlier in the summer is correlated with SAD being better in the summer. Thus the whole light box thing. People with SAD sleep much less in the summer.
If you can convince a BP II to sleep when hypomanic they generally are less hypomanic, and vice versa.
Apparently missing the second half of the night of sleep (waking really early) is better for mood than the other way around.
So maybe, just maybe, your body is trying to take care of itself and prevent a depression. Maybe it will work!
Kate
Posted by beardedlady on May 29, 2002, at 11:11:58
In reply to sleep deprivation statistically lifts mood., posted by katekite on May 28, 2002, at 18:14:13
Oooh. No, I don't think any nursing mothers were in that study. When I was nursing, I was terribly sleep deprived. It did nothing to enhance my mood.
No, sleep deprivation only makes me terribly anxious. I'm thinking that hypomania and anxiety might be similar, in that they both are an upper, which is why sleep calms them down.
When you already have a sleep disorder, losing sleep has the opposite effect. That's just my opinion from my experience.
Nice try, though! (I actually did feel better waking at 3:00 than I did taking two sleeping pills and sleeping til 6. But that's just because the pills grogged me.)
bleary beardy
Posted by beardedlady on May 30, 2002, at 5:32:44
In reply to Dumbest suggestion for you ever!! » beardedlady, posted by alii on May 28, 2002, at 15:55:08
See my note to you.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20020523/msgs/24869.html
beardy : )>
Posted by katekite on May 30, 2002, at 12:42:10
In reply to Re: sleep deprivation statistically lifts mood. » katekite, posted by beardedlady on May 29, 2002, at 11:11:58
HAH. Oh well. sometimes reverse psychology works for me.... well anyhow I'm glad you slept a bit better.
kate
Posted by beardedlady on May 30, 2002, at 13:39:18
In reply to Re: sleep deprivation statistically lifts mood., posted by katekite on May 30, 2002, at 12:42:10
Nice try! Thanks for the creative effort!
beardy : )>
Posted by shar on May 30, 2002, at 23:23:38
In reply to You were actually kidding? » katekite, posted by beardedlady on May 30, 2002, at 13:39:18
I've been having a heck of a time sleeping for the last few weeks. My problem is being too wired to sleep--can't fall asleep. Whatever it is, anxiety, I end up watching the sunrise...no fun when it is an unplanned event.
I worry about it. If it's going to continue forever? My natural rhythm does lean toward night person, always has...but it's hard being a night person in a morning world. Also, I try to keep on a 'regular' schedule sleep-wise, even if it is staying up till 3 a.m. and waking at 10 a.m., so long as it is before noon.
I have a tape I listen to if I'm really restless, it's not about sleeping, it's this Jungian therapist and she's talking about abondonment issues played out as cultural stories, so it's like listening to a storyteller and keeps me from doing the racing thoughts thing so much.
I haven't yet been able to equate my insomnia with a personal deficiency, but I figure that's just a matter of time. :)
Good luck,
Shar
Posted by katekite on June 1, 2002, at 22:00:47
In reply to You were actually kidding? » katekite, posted by beardedlady on May 30, 2002, at 13:39:18
I wouldn't call it 'kidding'.
I also can't say I was completely true to my sources.Somewhere inbetween shuffling statistics and outright lying.
I figured if you believed it it wouldn't hurt, because then you might be less stressed about not sleeping which might let you sleep more.
well anyhow you are sleeping better, right?
I'll take credit for that.
I apologize if I led you down a path of dysreason.
Darn it how could you believe that the haggard bleary raccoon eyed look of insomnia could possibly be improved by less sleep!
Never believe me unless I personally experienced it. I believe everything I read, which leads to problems with journalistic integrity.
The studies I read must have involved patients with that hypersomnic apathetic boring kind of depression that you don't have. But I only read the abstracts so don't know...technically they could have been insomniacs.
Will you forgive me for taking artistic license without a license?
:)
kate
Posted by beardedlady on June 2, 2002, at 6:56:03
In reply to not sleeping cures insomnia? me, kid?, posted by katekite on June 1, 2002, at 22:00:47
I'm sorry. Alii gets credit for my restored good sleep. After three days of misery, I had three days of excellent sleep, followed by finding my husband and not one but two motorcycle helmets missing at 2:00 a.m., which led to a sleeping pill at 2:30, a chewing out at 3:30 when he returned, and a few good hours of sleep afterward.
Thanks for asking--and for the reverse psychology. Very creative. (I actually did feel okay after waking up at 3:00, having had six hours of sleep already, but....)
beardy : )>
Posted by alii on June 4, 2002, at 3:34:36
In reply to kidding, lying, teasing, sleeping » katekite, posted by beardedlady on June 2, 2002, at 6:56:03
Hey then I AM good for something. Beardy you make me smile......that is cherished gift at this darkness in my life now.
You are nice to say sweet things. Danke.
---a.
This is the end of the thread.
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