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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 35. Go back in thread:
Posted by Sarahmarie on May 18, 2002, at 11:41:40
In reply to Re: A Big Question -- about Borderline Personality Dis » Sarahmarie, posted by terra miller on May 17, 2002, at 23:11:14
I find stretching a bit difficult to understand. It is like the therapist or Pdoc doesn't really want to search for the real problem. I really believe my severe depression and OCD are my main problems. I just don't get the connection with BPD, especially in the area of anger and chronic emptiness, impulsivity, etc. I do plan to pin down my therapist to some specifics to see if that better answers this troubling question for me. Thank you for your input.
Posted by sid on May 18, 2002, at 13:00:11
In reply to A Big Question -- about Borderline Personality Dis, posted by Sarahmarie on May 17, 2002, at 22:46:04
Hi Sarahmarie,
my GP has been trying to push this diagnosis on me too, so I can relate!
I wrote to a former therapist, at a clinic where I had taken several psychological tests done during my major depression. He sais that dysthymia was a likely diagnosis, but not BPD. He said (and I read it elsewhere too) that many people supposedly with BPD have undiagnosed or misdiagnosed MOOD disorders rather than a personality disorder.
Also, from past therapy, I've learned that anger kept inside is in fact past hurt, sadness, kept inside, which over the years turns into anger. Deal with your emotions on a daily basis, try to deal with past hurts, heal your depression, deal with your OCD and the anger will go away.
If you feel she is wrong, don't let her convince you otherwise. However, as someone wrote to me last week (katekite? sorry, I'm not sure...), if you argue a lot about this, she may take it as yet another symptom: argumentative, angry, etc. Can you talk to a former therapist? Ask for a formal diagnosis (by a pdoc), or indeed, talk about it calmly, and tell her that you don't believe you fit the profile.One major issue, from what I was told, with people with BPD is time alone. Can you stay alone? Do you like being alone? Apparently, people with BPD can't stand being alone and tend to cling to people and be very demanding. If you don't fit the anger pattern and you don't fit the picture about time alone, then I'd say you don't fit the BPD profile.
I was also told on this board that BPD is overdiagnosed, especially when therapists don't know what label to put on you.
Good luck!
- sid
Posted by sid on May 18, 2002, at 13:13:19
In reply to Re: A Big Question -- about Borderline Personality Dis » terra miller, posted by Sarahmarie on May 18, 2002, at 11:41:40
I had many symptoms of BPD during my depression. As I wrote in my previous message, it seems that a BPD diagnosis often stems from an un- or mis-diagnosed MOOD disorder.
Now that my depression is gone, I don't fit the BPD profile at all. For a while I would have a LOT of anger and yell at people, etc. It was in fact linked to grief (my father's death) that I did not feel allowed to live because I had to be the strong one in the family. It screwed me up big time, for quite a while. Now I'm fine. I still have some anger about some unresolved issues, but now in my daily life, I rarely feel anger at all.
So you BPD diagnoses could be in fact your depression! Many symptoms of depression, or consequences of depression, are the same as BPD symptoms.
My advice: treat the mood disorder, then things should go much much better.
And Sarahmarie: you need to tell your therapist that this diagnosis makes you more depressed. You go to her to get better, not worse! If this goes on, you need to find someone else. I never accepted that a therapist make me feel bad more than a couple of weeks in a row. There has to be a purpose to it, and quick resolution of the issue. Otherwise, stay home, you'll already feel better.- sid
Posted by Angel Girl on May 18, 2002, at 14:46:06
In reply to Re: Borderline Disorder. . .or just traits? » Angel Girl, posted by Zo on May 18, 2002, at 5:05:54
Zo
My switching is extremely abrupt and can change several times within a day. I have extreme anger outburts and have had people abandon me because of it.
Unfortunately I don't believe I'm on the right medication right now. I was originally diagnosed with severe depression. My family dr prescribes my meds and I'm on 267.5mg Effexor XR and Xanax for when my moods get out of control. My dr wants a pdoc to make further med changes. I think he feels unqualified to make further changes, which he probably is. I would like to be on a mood stabilizer. Up to this point I have been unable to find a pdoc that will take me on due to my several childhood traumas. I have been told that my case is 'delicate' and 'extremely difficult' to treat by several pdocs. It was originally my therapist who diagnosed the BPD in addition to the severe depression. I have since gone to an Institute for Mental Health and Addiction and have started preliminary psychatric testing and so far the tests show that I do indeed have BPD. I still have to go back for more tests as is the common procedure there. I am in the process to be admitted to their BPD program. My family and friends all agree with my BPD diagnosis as they have been the reciprocents (sp?) of my splitting, anger and other symptoms.
Angel Girl
Posted by Angel Girl on May 18, 2002, at 14:49:50
In reply to Re: Borderline Disorder. . .splitting » Zo, posted by Dinah1 on May 18, 2002, at 9:16:44
Dinah
Yes, splitting is seeing things as either black or white with no grey area in between. Everything is either 'all good' or 'all bad'. As in one time I could say I HATE somebody and within a few minutes I would say I LOVE the same person. It's the constant going back and forth between the two poles.
Angel Girl
Posted by Angel Girl on May 18, 2002, at 14:58:52
In reply to Depression and BPD (to Angel Girl and Sarahmarie), posted by sid on May 18, 2002, at 13:13:19
sid
Thanks for your advice. I am currently being treated for both my depression and BPD but I HATE my therapist and I won't be going back to her anymore. My family is NOT happy with this decision and we are in constant arguments over it. But I can't continue to go to her when she angers me so much and I hate the way she treats me.
Angel Girl
Posted by Sarahmarie on May 18, 2002, at 16:11:14
In reply to Re: A Big Question -- about Borderline Personality Dis » Sarahmarie, posted by sid on May 18, 2002, at 13:00:11
> Hi Sarahmarie,
>
> my GP has been trying to push this diagnosis on me too, so I can relate!
>
> I wrote to a former therapist, at a clinic where I had taken several psychological tests done during my major depression. He sais that dysthymia was a likely diagnosis, but not BPD. He said (and I read it elsewhere too) that many people supposedly with BPD have undiagnosed or misdiagnosed MOOD disorders rather than a personality disorder.
>
> Also, from past therapy, I've learned that anger kept inside is in fact past hurt, sadness, kept inside, which over the years turns into anger. Deal with your emotions on a daily basis, try to deal with past hurts, heal your depression, deal with your OCD and the anger will go away.
> If you feel she is wrong, don't let her convince you otherwise. However, as someone wrote to me last week (katekite? sorry, I'm not sure...), if you argue a lot about this, she may take it as yet another symptom: argumentative, angry, etc. Can you talk to a former therapist? Ask for a formal diagnosis (by a pdoc), or indeed, talk about it calmly, and tell her that you don't believe you fit the profile.
>
> One major issue, from what I was told, with people with BPD is time alone. Can you stay alone? Do you like being alone? Apparently, people with BPD can't stand being alone and tend to cling to people and be very demanding. If you don't fit the anger pattern and you don't fit the picture about time alone, then I'd say you don't fit the BPD profile.
>
> I was also told on this board that BPD is overdiagnosed, especially when therapists don't know what label to put on you.
>
> Good luck!
>
> - sidThank you for your response. I can stay alone quite comfortably. In fact my biggest tendency is to isolate or hibernate in my house, I only go out to do a few errands that I have to get done and then I in the house. I have been known not to even come out of my house for two or three days at a time. I have also tried living with my children (that is having them live with me) and it never works. I much prefer to be alone, even though, I may get a little lonely. I have a cat and a dog and that's all I need. Unfortunately, today I just been depressed about the BPD diagnosis--it just seems like such a hopeless label. Thanks SarahMarie
Posted by katt on May 18, 2002, at 16:41:41
In reply to A Big Question -- about Borderline Personality Dis, posted by Sarahmarie on May 17, 2002, at 22:46:04
I'm borderline and I think you're therapist needs to work on her stretching issues first.
Posted by Sarahmarie on May 18, 2002, at 17:01:31
In reply to Re: A Big Question -- about Borderline Personality Dis » Sarahmarie, posted by katt on May 18, 2002, at 16:41:41
> I'm borderline and I think you're therapist needs to work on her stretching issues first.
I tend to agree--my therapist also told me that there is no way to treat a borderline and they will remain that way all of their life--that makes me feel so dismal. She said you may be able to fix one or two things-but for the most part nothing can be done. I am having a hard time with this today and I am in a definite depressive state. Thanks. SarahMarie
Posted by katt on May 18, 2002, at 17:13:02
In reply to Re: A Big Question -- about Borderline Personality Dis » katt, posted by Sarahmarie on May 18, 2002, at 17:01:31
> > I'm borderline and I think you're therapist needs to work on her stretching issues first.
>
> I tend to agree--my therapist also told me that there is no way to treat a borderline and they will remain that way all of their life--that makes me feel so dismal. She said you may be able to fix one or two things-but for the most part nothing can be done. I am having a hard time with this today and I am in a definite depressive state. Thanks. SarahMarieyeah, i dont like this stretching business. bpd's also have a bunch of dx's a lot of the time. esp dissociating, eating problems, depression, and severe anxiety linked to the anger. i've noticed that some therapists want to work with borderlines just because they can claim they have something complex they are working on. others -- and this has been my experience -- wont touch a borderline with a ten foot pole. our suicide attempts are messy. thearpy with us can be a nightmare. the therapist is never right and they hate that. we call, and call, and call. (they hate that too). we walk out before a session ends (lord knows i have) or pout and refuse to go when the time is up (one therapist has had to physically pick me up to get me out). yeah, no one likes us. its ok, i dont like anyone either.
Posted by katekite on May 18, 2002, at 17:47:28
In reply to Re: A Big Question -- about Borderline Personality Dis » Sarahmarie, posted by katt on May 18, 2002, at 16:41:41
BPD is a real diagnosis, but its a rare problem. It is treatable: usually mood stabilizers or ssris help, and therapy does help but it takes a long time. So if it was true it would not be horrible: if fact if it was true it would be good in a way, finally a diagnosis to a life of anguish. Any correct diagnosis is good.... being that once a correct diagnosis is made the right treatment will result.
You might see if you can get a psychological evaluation that is not through an interviewer, such as the MMPI.
Personally, a couple of therapists I saw during depressions tossed the BPD diagnosis around with me. I worried over it and it really got me down but they were ultimately not right. Therapists are often wrong, its just the process of getting to know us. Think of all the people they see: they are trying to fit people into categories and it is very tempting for them to jump to a conclusion.
The reason it was so disturbing an idea to me was that after reading the description, I saw that borderline individuals tend to put others needs last if they are upset, make all these frantic (read 'needless') attempts to avoid abandonment, sounded like they yelled a lot and might even be abusive. Sounded two-faced too. I had always thought of myself quite differently.
So at that point after crying and asking my boyfriend if I was really like that, him saying no... I looked at the criteria and saw that I only fit 3 or so. Not enough.
The ones I fit are/were: black and white thinking (when depressed I tend to not believe people need or love me)... also even when I'm not depressed it's I take rejection really hard...so I tend in hard times to either really need and like my shrink or not like them at all and think they suck; I'm impulsive (pull my hair out which is impulse-control, interrupt, have trouble with authority) (it turns out impulsive is my personality, also I finally got diagnosed with ADD which explains it to some degree); and lastly I have big issues with abandonment, this is a probably abuse related.
But the MMPI places me squarely in the sane normal population in this respect: people are allowed a degree of personality issue, even normal people have issues. When depressed or anxious or when life is hard everyone has some issues that predominate.
So -- at this point we should revisit that you say you only fit 3 of the characteristics. (Compared to a group of borderline individuals, you are not borderline). If you feel you've been honest and if you think someone who has known you for quite some time on a personal level, someone you've opened up to (other than this therapist and your ex) would agree with you, then you are not borderline.
The last thing to say about those 3 issues is that those may well be the central issues that therapy can work on. For example, I've gotten way better about rejection/abandonment through knowing some stable non-abusive people and through actively working on reminding myself that most people are nice (not intending to hurt me).
Ok so here's the next question: what do you think prompted your therapist to bring this up? Did you get attached to them early in therapy? Or have a problem with them? Or call them when needing support more than once a month?
Since its unlikely you're borderline, lets figure out what prompted your shrink to get this misimpression.
For me, it was usually that I related my abandonment issues but seemed to easily attach to the therapist (a warning flag to them, as how could someone who won't trust anyone look so trusting?)....anyhow, there are a million reasons they could be wondering... what do you think it is?
Sid mentioned I said something about not getting angry about it with them... I don't think that was me but it is good advice.
So your therapist may not know you as well yet as you would like.
In any case, whatever they think about this has nothing to do with whether they like you and whether they think they can help you (that's an abandonment trap I would have fallen into). It is also not a reason to think they are not a good shrink (black white thinking) as they have gotten on the wrong track here but every human does sometime: they are human.
Hope you can keep from worrying over this. Things will most likely be just fine after you talk to them next time and straighten out whatever issue it might have been that prompted them to find #4 and #5 (as you do have some borderline traits, all they would need to do would be to accidently find a couple more).
kate
Posted by Sarahmarie on May 18, 2002, at 17:59:51
In reply to Re: A Big Question -- about Borderline Personality Dis, posted by katekite on May 18, 2002, at 17:47:28
> BPD is a real diagnosis, but its a rare problem. It is treatable: usually mood stabilizers or ssris help, and therapy does help but it takes a long time. So if it was true it would not be horrible: if fact if it was true it would be good in a way, finally a diagnosis to a life of anguish. Any correct diagnosis is good.... being that once a correct diagnosis is made the right treatment will result.
>
> You might see if you can get a psychological evaluation that is not through an interviewer, such as the MMPI.
>
> Personally, a couple of therapists I saw during depressions tossed the BPD diagnosis around with me. I worried over it and it really got me down but they were ultimately not right. Therapists are often wrong, its just the process of getting to know us. Think of all the people they see: they are trying to fit people into categories and it is very tempting for them to jump to a conclusion.
>
> The reason it was so disturbing an idea to me was that after reading the description, I saw that borderline individuals tend to put others needs last if they are upset, make all these frantic (read 'needless') attempts to avoid abandonment, sounded like they yelled a lot and might even be abusive. Sounded two-faced too. I had always thought of myself quite differently.
>
> So at that point after crying and asking my boyfriend if I was really like that, him saying no... I looked at the criteria and saw that I only fit 3 or so. Not enough.
>
> The ones I fit are/were: black and white thinking (when depressed I tend to not believe people need or love me)... also even when I'm not depressed it's I take rejection really hard...so I tend in hard times to either really need and like my shrink or not like them at all and think they suck; I'm impulsive (pull my hair out which is impulse-control, interrupt, have trouble with authority) (it turns out impulsive is my personality, also I finally got diagnosed with ADD which explains it to some degree); and lastly I have big issues with abandonment, this is a probably abuse related.
>
> But the MMPI places me squarely in the sane normal population in this respect: people are allowed a degree of personality issue, even normal people have issues. When depressed or anxious or when life is hard everyone has some issues that predominate.
>
> So -- at this point we should revisit that you say you only fit 3 of the characteristics. (Compared to a group of borderline individuals, you are not borderline). If you feel you've been honest and if you think someone who has known you for quite some time on a personal level, someone you've opened up to (other than this therapist and your ex) would agree with you, then you are not borderline.
>
> The last thing to say about those 3 issues is that those may well be the central issues that therapy can work on. For example, I've gotten way better about rejection/abandonment through knowing some stable non-abusive people and through actively working on reminding myself that most people are nice (not intending to hurt me).
>
> Ok so here's the next question: what do you think prompted your therapist to bring this up? Did you get attached to them early in therapy? Or have a problem with them? Or call them when needing support more than once a month?
>
> Since its unlikely you're borderline, lets figure out what prompted your shrink to get this misimpression.
>
> For me, it was usually that I related my abandonment issues but seemed to easily attach to the therapist (a warning flag to them, as how could someone who won't trust anyone look so trusting?)....anyhow, there are a million reasons they could be wondering... what do you think it is?
>
> Sid mentioned I said something about not getting angry about it with them... I don't think that was me but it is good advice.
>
> So your therapist may not know you as well yet as you would like.
>
> In any case, whatever they think about this has nothing to do with whether they like you and whether they think they can help you (that's an abandonment trap I would have fallen into). It is also not a reason to think they are not a good shrink (black white thinking) as they have gotten on the wrong track here but every human does sometime: they are human.
>
> Hope you can keep from worrying over this. Things will most likely be just fine after you talk to them next time and straighten out whatever issue it might have been that prompted them to find #4 and #5 (as you do have some borderline traits, all they would need to do would be to accidently find a couple more).
>
> kateThank you Kate for all the good information. I just took the Meyers-Briggs Personality test on-line and the results wer ISTJ, which is supposed to be an Introverted Sensing Thinking Judging type--does this Personality Type also belong to the Borderline personalities?? I am just asking.
I know I shouldn't be worried too much about this, I guess I am just obsessing on the fact that everything I have read and the fact that my therapist told me that this condition cannot be cured--makes me feel kind of lost and hopeless.SarahMarie
Posted by Dinah1 on May 18, 2002, at 18:32:42
In reply to Re: A Big Question -- about Borderline Personality Dis » katekite, posted by Sarahmarie on May 18, 2002, at 17:59:51
They have a screening test at this site. Of course, this is just a self reporting test, and I''m not sure how accurate it is, but it is there, for what it's worth.
Posted by sid on May 18, 2002, at 20:00:18
In reply to Re: A Big Question -- about Borderline Personality Dis » katekite, posted by Sarahmarie on May 18, 2002, at 17:59:51
Meyer-Briggs personality types are just that - they have nothing to do with personality disorders. So ISTJ and borderline are two very different things. Except an ISTJ person may have some of the personality traits that make up the list of criteria for BPD. If the therapist knows you're ISTJ for example (in my case INTP), they may understand better some of your reactions, etc. and not associate it with a disorder.
I personally felt judged by my doc lately. She said I was intransigent (is that a word in English?) - not tolerant about some things. I said yes, sometimes. Did she take it as part of a disorder? Last time I checked, nobody was perfect... yes I can be intolerant at times, about some specific things (stupidity, precisely, and the lack of desire to grow in life; as a result, I am sometimes unable to deal with some people simply because I want to shake them and tell them to evolve). Otherwise, I'm a very tolerant person, more than most people I know. I've had roommates and I have friends of all sexual orientations, or all continents and races, etc. My doc may not realize that and just see that I'm intolerant. If she knew that I'm INTP, she'd realize that not being able to stand stupidity is just a personality trait.
Anyhow, don't worry about your Meyer-Briggs type; use it instead to know yourself better and to let your therapist know you better too.
- sid
Posted by sid on May 18, 2002, at 20:01:27
In reply to Re: A Big Question -- about Borderline Personality Dis, posted by katekite on May 18, 2002, at 17:47:28
Sorry katekite, it was someone else...
We exchanged quite a bit on the subject of BPD, so I though it could have been you.
I have a pretty bad memory.- sid
Posted by Sarahmarie on May 19, 2002, at 9:23:57
In reply to Re: A Big Question -- about Borderline Personality Dis, posted by Angel Girl on May 18, 2002, at 3:44:36
> Sarahmarie
>
> I was looking for your thread from last week on BPD and I couldn't find it. I looked in the last 2 weeks. Maybe you could point me in the right direction???
>
> Angel GirlI hope this works here is the post from last week:
Posted by Angel Girl on May 19, 2002, at 12:26:28
In reply to Re: A Big Question -- about Borderline Personality Dis, posted by Sarahmarie on May 19, 2002, at 9:23:57
Sarahmarie
Thanks for the link. :)
Angel Girl
Posted by NikkiT2 on May 19, 2002, at 15:30:26
In reply to Re: A Big Question -- about Borderline Personality Dis, posted by Angel Girl on May 19, 2002, at 12:26:28
Are you in the UK?? I'm involved ina grop raising awareness of BPD in the uk and trying to remove the stigma attached to it. We have a yahoo group, so itmight be worth kinda getting to know a BPD persons daily struggles.
Unfortunately its only for people in the UK at the moment..
nikki
Posted by katekite on May 19, 2002, at 17:29:32
In reply to Re: A Big Question -- about Borderline Personality Dis » katekite, posted by sid on May 18, 2002, at 20:01:27
I don't really remember what I said, to tell the truth, Sid.
Nice to see you around.
kate
Posted by Sarahmarie on May 19, 2002, at 19:33:32
In reply to Sarahmarie, posted by NikkiT2 on May 19, 2002, at 15:30:26
> Are you in the UK?? I'm involved ina grop raising awareness of BPD in the uk and trying to remove the stigma attached to it. We have a yahoo group, so itmight be worth kinda getting to know a BPD persons daily struggles.
>
> Unfortunately its only for people in the UK at the moment..
>
> nikkiSorry I am not in the UK but would love to come for a visit someday when I'm rich.
Posted by Zo on May 21, 2002, at 14:54:06
In reply to Re: Borderline Disorder. . .or just traits? » Zo, posted by Sarahmarie on May 18, 2002, at 11:38:11
An abusive marriage! Well what in h-e-double toothpicks is *any* therapist doing *diagnosing* you, when what happened to you, now, is real! This is a recovery issue. . .
"Options for solving problems that are not limited to my own ideas." That's really eloquent, a wonderful way of capturing what PDs cannot do, really . .
This whole thing--and my aim is not to disrupt *anybody's* therapy--smacks of the disbelief of women that lies behind so many lazy BPD diagnoses. It goes very deep. Why do we have to work to have our statements taken seriously, heard? As I say, it goes very deep.
Thanks for your post,
Zo
Posted by Zo on May 21, 2002, at 14:57:47
In reply to Re: Borderline Disorder. . .or just traits? - Zo, posted by Angel Girl on May 18, 2002, at 14:46:06
Anger can be a prominent symptom. People think Bipolar means euphora when you're up. Nooot necessarily,. Not at all.If the switching is happening of its own accord. . .*please* get looked at for bipolar!
Zo
Posted by Adam on May 21, 2002, at 20:56:10
In reply to A Big Question -- about Borderline Personality Dis, posted by Sarahmarie on May 17, 2002, at 22:46:04
Hi, Sarahmarie,
I was once concerned I had a personality disorder (I also have major depression and OCD). I sat down with the DSM-IIIR (didn't have vsn. IV handy), and read the descriptions; of course I found some things that fit, and it made me really worried.
I shared my thoughts with my doctor, and he told me the mere fact that I had such questions and concerns was a strong indicator that I did NOT have a personality disorder. That's not to say I didn't have problems, just that they weren't of that type. He had treated a few individuals with BPD, and he told me that, besides sometimes being a nightmare to work with, they tended to look externally for the source of the trouble: YOU'RE the one with the problem, not ME. He also said they were prone to outbursts of rage when confronted with the reality of their disorder (directed, I gathered, at him on occasion).
I can't say for certain, but I think if you were sitting in front of him, he would tell you the same thing he told me: You don't have a personality disorder. You seem to have a relatively normal level of insight about your own difficulties, and, while doubtful about your therapist's diagnosis, you aren't angrily hurling invective at her as a means of voicing your concerns.
To me, quite frankly, the whole concept of the personality disorder is frought with difficulty. Part of the reason I, and many others (as I have seen on this board) have wondered aloud if they themselves might be so afflicted, is because to some extent we all have a little "personality disorder" to contend with. Since personality disorders are defined largely as an exaggerated form of the "normal" personality, it's not hard for relatively normal people to recognize some aspect of themselves in the definition. Certainly, some of us have more of such problems than others. It seems to me that the bona fide BPD sufferer ought to be pretty easy to identify. Even then, it's a matter of degree, not kind, e.g. you don't just get a little angry, you get totally enraged.
It might be helpful to get a second oppinion from another psychotherapist. You might even hunt around for someone who specializes in personality disorders. I think one practical concern is: Will you recieve a different kind of therapy if you do have BPD, one that is specifically tailored to BPD sufferers, and is thus inappropriate for non-borderline patients? For instance, there are strains of behavioral therapy, like dialectical behavioral therapy, which were developed to treat personality disorders. The dialectical approach may or may not be good for you, regardless of your diagnosis. It really depends on what you need. Some people just use straight cognitive-behavioral therapy to deal with personality disorders, tweaking it as needed to suit the specific concerns. In that case, you might find that all your therapist is doing is treating YOU, the person with a problem, and not using a cookie-cutter approach.
In other words, the diagnosis may or may not be all that important in the end. Just say you go along with the BPD angle. Where would it lead you? Maybe, in the end, the label put on you could be of relatively little importance. Your issues with depression and OCD don't go away whether or not you have BPD, and your treatment may well take account of that fact. Lots of people with personality disorders have comorbid psychiatric disorders, and this has to be addressed when treating them.
Best of luck!
Posted by Angel Girl on May 21, 2002, at 21:29:20
In reply to Re: Sounds much more like Bipolar. . really! » Angel Girl, posted by Zo on May 21, 2002, at 14:57:47
Zo
I am going to be getting a proper assessment done in July hopefully. I've already inquired about bi-polar and been told by 3 professionals that I don't have that. I just want a correct diagnosis put on me so I know what I'm dealing with.
Thanks for your advice. Mucha appreciated.
Angel Girl
Posted by Sarahmarie on May 21, 2002, at 22:44:31
In reply to Re: A Big Question -- about Borderline Personality » Sarahmarie, posted by Adam on May 21, 2002, at 20:56:10
Hi Adam:
Thank you so much for such informative information regarding BPD. I have been told by others in group therapy, that I do not have borderline personality disorder, so to be honest I was quite surprised when my therapist diagnosed me with that, even though she says it is an Axis II diagnosis (whatever that means).I have been feeling a little better over the past few days, but my therapy appointment is Thursday night and I was hoping to have a discussion with her about the BDP. I really think that I would like her to identify the parts of my personality that she feels can be fixed and let me know what is left over that cannot be fixed. At least that would give me some sort of starting point to try and improve myself. I really want to do this now, while my medication is working and keeping the depression under control. As I have already experienced several major depressive relapses and medication poop-out, I am hopeful that while I am in a good place, I can sort this out and not let it get me down. Thank you for all your encouraging words and good wishes. I'll let you know what happens after therapy on Thursday.
SarahMarie
Hi, Sarahmarie,
>
> I was once concerned I had a personality disorder (I also have major depression and OCD). I sat down with the DSM-IIIR (didn't have vsn. IV handy), and read the descriptions; of course I found some things that fit, and it made me really worried.
>
> I shared my thoughts with my doctor, and he told me the mere fact that I had such questions and concerns was a strong indicator that I did NOT have a personality disorder. That's not to say I didn't have problems, just that they weren't of that type. He had treated a few individuals with BPD, and he told me that, besides sometimes being a nightmare to work with, they tended to look externally for the source of the trouble: YOU'RE the one with the problem, not ME. He also said they were prone to outbursts of rage when confronted with the reality of their disorder (directed, I gathered, at him on occasion).
>
> I can't say for certain, but I think if you were sitting in front of him, he would tell you the same thing he told me: You don't have a personality disorder. You seem to have a relatively normal level of insight about your own difficulties, and, while doubtful about your therapist's diagnosis, you aren't angrily hurling invective at her as a means of voicing your concerns.
>
> To me, quite frankly, the whole concept of the personality disorder is frought with difficulty. Part of the reason I, and many others (as I have seen on this board) have wondered aloud if they themselves might be so afflicted, is because to some extent we all have a little "personality disorder" to contend with. Since personality disorders are defined largely as an exaggerated form of the "normal" personality, it's not hard for relatively normal people to recognize some aspect of themselves in the definition. Certainly, some of us have more of such problems than others. It seems to me that the bona fide BPD sufferer ought to be pretty easy to identify. Even then, it's a matter of degree, not kind, e.g. you don't just get a little angry, you get totally enraged.
>
> It might be helpful to get a second oppinion from another psychotherapist. You might even hunt around for someone who specializes in personality disorders. I think one practical concern is: Will you recieve a different kind of therapy if you do have BPD, one that is specifically tailored to BPD sufferers, and is thus inappropriate for non-borderline patients? For instance, there are strains of behavioral therapy, like dialectical behavioral therapy, which were developed to treat personality disorders. The dialectical approach may or may not be good for you, regardless of your diagnosis. It really depends on what you need. Some people just use straight cognitive-behavioral therapy to deal with personality disorders, tweaking it as needed to suit the specific concerns. In that case, you might find that all your therapist is doing is treating YOU, the person with a problem, and not using a cookie-cutter approach.
>
> In other words, the diagnosis may or may not be all that important in the end. Just say you go along with the BPD angle. Where would it lead you? Maybe, in the end, the label put on you could be of relatively little importance. Your issues with depression and OCD don't go away whether or not you have BPD, and your treatment may well take account of that fact. Lots of people with personality disorders have comorbid psychiatric disorders, and this has to be addressed when treating them.
>
> Best of luck!
This is the end of the thread.
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