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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by LiLi80 on April 24, 2002, at 22:13:43
In reply to Re: ...LiLi80 I just realised, posted by CtrlAlt n Del on April 24, 2002, at 22:05:11
Posted by CtrlAlt n Del on April 24, 2002, at 22:22:27
In reply to Re: ...LiLi80 » CtrlAlt n Del, posted by LiLi80 on April 24, 2002, at 22:04:22
> i have nothing, and cant get what i want, because i am too defective to keep anything
there are no answers....
but I do know that there is something..even now here at 4.30 am the birds are going crazy outside..makes me feel special as if it's just for me often the illness just doesn't let any light through ...but the simpliest things.
I may be useless in helping you but does it feel good that you may be helping others by typing here sharing ..is that worth sticking around for.
Posted by CtrlAlt n Del on April 24, 2002, at 22:29:44
In reply to Re: ...LiLi80 ..i feel the same about myself often, posted by CtrlAlt n Del on April 24, 2002, at 22:22:27
shows you have a brighter side...shame he can't answer eh: )
Posted by LiLi80 on April 24, 2002, at 22:44:26
In reply to Re: ...LiLi80 ..i feel the same about myself often, posted by CtrlAlt n Del on April 24, 2002, at 22:22:27
Posted by Phil on April 24, 2002, at 23:08:58
In reply to Re: ...LiLi80 ..i feel the same about myself often, posted by CtrlAlt n Del on April 24, 2002, at 22:22:27
I'm not saying you are just wanting attention. I am seriously worried that you will do something that will never be undone.
Question..If all of us want to live, why did one of us just kill themselves. sar..I didn't know her that well from here but it just stunned me and everyone else.
Sometimes, I've wanted to kill myself because I was depressed, then a girlfriend leaves. I want to blow my ass away just to show her, etc. I'm angry at everybody and I know how to deeply hurt everyone in my life thats ever cared about me. Hey, they all get to share a little guilt: was it something I said or did?
If I find myself terminally ill in the future, on my last legs, so to speak. And severe pain is constant. Nobody's taking my 38.
But I'll fight this stinking disease til my final breath and I will never give up. It is not an option.
Why not live to find your own happiness. Fuck what the rest of the world thinks. Go do what makes you happy, or used to.
Life is short, you weren't put on this earth to suffer and neither was I. We got dealt this hand.
Like Scott Peck says in The Road Less Travelled, first three words. Life is difficult. Once you understand that, life becomes easier.
Stick around LiLi80, I've got more boring stories.
Your story needs to have a happy ending..maybe 30-50 years from now. When you believe it, you'll see it.
Posted by Alii on April 24, 2002, at 23:25:07
In reply to Re: ...LiLi80 , posted by Phil on April 24, 2002, at 23:08:58
LiLi--
Still listening in the dark for you.
--Alii
Posted by CtrlAlt n Del on April 24, 2002, at 23:30:21
In reply to Re: ...LiLi80 , posted by Phil on April 24, 2002, at 23:08:58
Like Scott Peck says in The Road Less Travelled, first three words. Life is difficult. Once you understand that, life becomes easier.
Hi...
I've had that book for 4 years and another he wrote..picked it up but always been afraid to read it...to face things I guess.
Ah well
Posted by Alii on April 24, 2002, at 23:36:08
In reply to Re: ...LiLi80 , posted by Phil on April 24, 2002, at 23:08:58
LiLi--
From the posts I am guessing you are college aged.
Where you are at now is not indicitive of forever. I had some very concrete ideas about offing myself and several good pill attempts but back then I didn't have perspective.
I was so raging-ly angry with my circumstances when BIG UGLY MEAN SCARY DEPRESSION came and wacked me on the head. The med balancing took a while but when I reached a level it improved the dark, heavy, hatred that I had clung so tightly to.
I really don't want to blow sunshine....so I will just continue to offer my presence here and on chat. (11:35 Chicago time currently)
--Alii
Posted by Alii on April 24, 2002, at 23:39:42
In reply to re:....more, posted by Alii on April 24, 2002, at 23:36:08
.....and there wasn't any magic bullet that worked each day or each moment.
I had to fight out of it. You are a fighter. Hell girl you have expressed some serious spunk here in a few posts.
You have the anger. Use it to stay please.
Because I want to see you turning that anger around and putting it in the right channels so that the world can be awed by your talents.
--a.
Posted by Ritch on April 24, 2002, at 23:47:22
In reply to ..., posted by LiLi80 on April 24, 2002, at 20:46:39
> still want to die
"If you want to be a different fish, jump out of school."
-Don Van Vliet
(death isn't a pre-requisite to be unique)
Posted by Alii on April 24, 2002, at 23:54:12
In reply to Re: ... » LiLi80, posted by Ritch on April 24, 2002, at 23:47:22
>>>still want to die<<<
>> "If you want to be a different fish, jump out of school."
-Don Van Vliet
(death isn't a pre-requisite to be unique)<<Mitch had a glorious quote there LiLi.
Posted by CtrlAlt n Del on April 24, 2002, at 23:55:55
In reply to still here , posted by Alii on April 24, 2002, at 23:25:07
Posted by Shar on April 25, 2002, at 0:12:55
In reply to Re: ...LiLi80 , posted by Phil on April 24, 2002, at 23:08:58
Phil's use of the phrase 'happy endings' made this spew forth from me.
In my therapy group recently members have been sculpting our families of origin (sort of a role play thing) and mine began with the question "what killed my spirit?" After the sculpt (which is vomitously painful) it is pretty normal for old thoughts and feelings to crop up, but there is also a new perspective in which to view these things due to the exercise.
Well, finally, I sort of identified one of the undercurrents of grief that run thru me at all times. It was that I always wanted a happy ending. In younger days, it was always very fairy tale-ish.
So, that in itself was a good thing to know. Then I did some work on...what would a happy ending look like to me now. And, it was nice to have sort of a realistically attainable vision of it. [And NOT have to take some crappy, lame picture of life and just CALL it a happy ending. I've done enough of that kind of stuff ....starting with "it's not agony, it's discomfort."]
The harder part of the happy ending knowledge is knowing that it is highly unlikely I'll have one. I've always thought 50 years was enough. And, it is extremely doubtful that after decades of therapy and years of meds and med changes, if it ain't changed yet, it probably won't.
Don't mean to be a bummer here. Phil's phrase just reminded me about that.
I think everyone should wait til they're 50 to seriously consider suicide. It's not a decision that should be made IMHO during a terrible depression (really!).
If anyone else here is like me, I often wait until really bad times in my life to "solve" problems like loneliness, or fear of going under, etc. When, actually, I do believe that is NOT the best time to do that. The only thing to resolve when feeling really bad, is hanging with it until one has a better hand hold. Then, work on the other stuff.
LiLi, I hope your choice right now will be pro-living. You are under a ton of stress, depression, and stuff like school that you don't have control over--and it would be terrible to go out because of those things being so overwhelming. This sounds like a good time to hang in. Later, after you've resolved some of the big biggies, you can always think about going south.
Shar
> I'm not saying you are just wanting attention. I am seriously worried that you will do something that will never be undone.
> Question..If all of us want to live, why did one of us just kill themselves. sar..I didn't know her that well from here but it just stunned me and everyone else.
> Sometimes, I've wanted to kill myself because I was depressed, then a girlfriend leaves. I want to blow my ass away just to show her, etc. I'm angry at everybody and I know how to deeply hurt everyone in my life thats ever cared about me. Hey, they all get to share a little guilt: was it something I said or did?
> If I find myself terminally ill in the future, on my last legs, so to speak. And severe pain is constant. Nobody's taking my 38.
> But I'll fight this stinking disease til my final breath and I will never give up. It is not an option.
> Why not live to find your own happiness. Fuck what the rest of the world thinks. Go do what makes you happy, or used to.
> Life is short, you weren't put on this earth to suffer and neither was I. We got dealt this hand.
> Like Scott Peck says in The Road Less Travelled, first three words. Life is difficult. Once you understand that, life becomes easier.
> Stick around LiLi80, I've got more boring stories.
> Your story needs to have a happy ending..maybe 30-50 years from now. When you believe it, you'll see it.
Posted by Phil on April 25, 2002, at 6:49:13
In reply to Re: happy endings, posted by Shar on April 25, 2002, at 0:12:55
Shar, We think the same on so much and I have the thought; I'm almost 48 and I don't have kids, family, great job, money, etc. I just bought a book on Zen called 'NOTHING SPECIAL Living Zen'.
It's by Charlotte Joko Beck. I think she was the founder of the San Diego Zen Center and still teaches there. I'd have to put this down as a book recommendation for all of us.
Haven't read a lot of the book but Zen is learning to stop those wheels in our head from turning, for one thing. She also talks about how our society chases after all the wrong things.
I think depression is a main factor in a lot of suicides but I think societal(word?) pressure is the biggie. We all know, all day long, all over America we're chasing the carrot. We have to have certain 'things' to be happy or titles to be happy or we feel, if we don't have a degree, like me, we aren't smart or good enough. We all know it's bullshit.
LiLi, if I could bo so bold as to make a recommendation, read this or other books that talk about what's REALLY important in life. It's not even close to how most of us live.
We have a disease and I finally learned that I'm going to cut myself some slack. The battle I win is getting up everyday and trying to go to work.
It isn't the makings of a hero in this society; I can't brag about it to co-workers, haha. But, in the world of what's really important, we are all worthy of a touch of serenity.
My older brothers probably thought my depression was bullshit or an excuse at one time. But they have seen me knocked down so many times and, like everyone else, the struggles with meds over the past20 years. Now that more info on depression is getting out slowly and I've MADE THEM LISTEN, in a lot of ways, I think I'm the one they admire. I'm rambling, sorry. I also agree with Shar that people should wait til they are 50 to consider suicide. I also agree that at our lowest points in life, we try to change ourselves. Sometimes in the middle of a kick ass depression, I will decide to quit smoking. I make it 5 minutes then beat myself up for a few months over being stupid to try. Anyway...give it some thought.Phil
Posted by Phil on April 25, 2002, at 6:58:32
In reply to Re: happy endingsLiLi Shar, posted by Phil on April 25, 2002, at 6:49:13
One of the main goals of Zen and even AA is to learn to live in the present. Like, right now. Beyond that, who knows?
Posted by beardedlady on April 25, 2002, at 7:48:28
In reply to Re: ...LiLi80 ..i feel the same about myself often, posted by CtrlAlt n Del on April 24, 2002, at 22:22:27
> there are no answers....
> but I do know that there is something..even now here at 4.30 am the birds are going crazy outside..makes me feel special as if it's just for me often the illness just doesn't let any light through ...but the simpliest things.When I was going through my terrible sleep problems, I used to hate those damned birds for waking me up at 5:00 when I had just fallen asleep at 4:00. But I would lie there and listen, and they seemed to be telling me something. Like, "snap out of it, bonehead." But in a nice way, you know?
They rejoiced at the first light! Amen, the dark is OVER! We are early birds, and there are worms to catch. And then something kicked in, something about rejoicing at the light, something about singing. And so I'd take a shower and sing LOUDLY. And I literally woke up.
Here's a poem about poems and how they need birds in them to give them life, just as we need birds in us to give us back our lives. It's just to say that a few minutes watching birds can really work to restore peace, can really soothe us. So LiLi, just try it. You don't even have to go to a beautiful place. Just watch some birds for five or ten minutes while you drink your morning coffee or your diet coke or whatever.
Okay, ready? It's not a great poem, but here goes:
---------
Place Bird HereIf all else fails, insert a bird—
an oriole or jay, a cardinal
or a house finch.
Install the shrill or warble,
the five-note song, a caw.
Or simply place the nest—
a ball of weeds and yarn,
a tangle of wire hangers,
a clump of twigs.That plump sofa, dense
and amply pillowed,
won’t ease the ache.
The hot iron
and ready wrinkles
won’t smooth the nerve.
The soft child, limbs long
and tanned and busy,
can’t sit still that long.But the surprise of a bird—
the Great Blue tossing
his catch into the air,
the titmouse eyeing a fry,
the bright rust belly
of a fat robin lurking
amid a mat of green—
will take those thoughts
and fly south.lfm a.k.a. beardy
Posted by shelliR on April 25, 2002, at 14:04:32
In reply to ..., posted by LiLi80 on April 24, 2002, at 20:46:39
Lilli,
I know this all sounds so unrelated to the depression that feels like it's eating you up. But I wanted to connect and hope that you can let in some of the things that this group is giving you. Some of us are older and have lived through both ups and downs.
When I was 24, I wanted to die. Some things were wrong in my life and heaviness and pain came over me. I went into the hospital (no better when I came out). But I started an MAOI anti-depressant and the heaviness just lifted. My life was far from perfect and during the rest of my twenties and early thirties I was sad and isolated quite a bit.
I found working horrible. I worked in research; I found 9-5 unbearable and I found office politics unbearable. I received disability. That was really a gift for me--I got to explore areas of art that I couldn't do with a "regular" job.
Then I started a business. Something that was mine and something that I excelled at. I didn't want to die. I worked hard because I was working for myself.
Anyway, I had NO idea that part of life could be wonderful for me. I could have stopped in at age 24. But I didn't, I went on, gathered all the resourses I could and went ahead. Then I thought how lucky I am to have found something I love, and something that makes other people so happy. I am very grateful for my gift and grateful that I get paid for my gift.
In the last few years--particularly this last year, I've been very depressed and want to die. I think it is a biological depression. But I can't off myself because my family loves me and I feel that it would be so selfish. And I try to look back at age 24 and see that I had no idea that I could love things in life. It looked all black ahead.
You hurt so much that you have lost your perspective. You need someone to help you with that, someone who carries this perspective for you.
You haven't answered questions about a therapist. So life will happen, and it is likely that much of it will happy. I agree with Shar, maybe not a happily ever after, but a mixture of sadness and joy. People who you haven't even met will come into your life who you will like a lot, maybe even love.Realize how young you are and how much time there is to change. This is the hardest part. To have the faith that things will change. The intensity of life is not as strong as you get older. There is less dispair. You will get through this. And you will see that beyond the blackness there are many colors.
Shelli
Posted by wendy b. on April 26, 2002, at 0:55:58
In reply to Birds--and a poem for LiLi, Dreamer » CtrlAlt n Del, posted by beardedlady on April 25, 2002, at 7:48:28
Lovely, Beardy, just perfect....
an admiring,
Wendy
> ---------
> Place Bird Here
>
> If all else fails, insert a bird—
> an oriole or jay, a cardinal
> or a house finch.
> Install the shrill or warble,
> the five-note song, a caw.
> Or simply place the nest—
> a ball of weeds and yarn,
> a tangle of wire hangers,
> a clump of twigs.
>
> That plump sofa, dense
> and amply pillowed,
> won’t ease the ache.
> The hot iron
> and ready wrinkles
> won’t smooth the nerve.
> The soft child, limbs long
> and tanned and busy,
> can’t sit still that long.
>
> But the surprise of a bird—
> the Great Blue tossing
> his catch into the air,
> the titmouse eyeing a fry,
> the bright rust belly
> of a fat robin lurking
> amid a mat of green—
> will take those thoughts
> and fly south.
>
> lfm a.k.a. beardy
Posted by Zo on April 26, 2002, at 3:26:34
In reply to Birds--and a poem for LiLi, Dreamer » CtrlAlt n Del, posted by beardedlady on April 25, 2002, at 7:48:28
Oh I just love it, thick and dense with cozy, plummy words, I feel like pinching its little fat cheek, your poem. .
Zo
Posted by beardedlady on April 26, 2002, at 5:49:00
In reply to Re: Birds--and a poem for LiLi, Dreamer » beardedlady, posted by Zo on April 26, 2002, at 3:26:34
Thank you, thank you. How 'bout pinching MY fat cheek, huh? (Whoops. That would be the cheek located just next to my smile.)
beardy : )>
Posted by Marie1 on April 26, 2002, at 10:18:16
In reply to Re: ... » LiLi80, posted by shelliR on April 25, 2002, at 14:04:32
What you wrote to Lilli was beautiful and could not have been said with more eloquence or insightfulness. If there's ever an archive of inspirational, supportive and caring posts, this one belongs at the top.
Marie
Posted by shelliR on April 26, 2002, at 14:58:04
In reply to Re: ... » shelliR, posted by Marie1 on April 26, 2002, at 10:18:16
Marie,
I saw your name on the 2001 board, but I signed on in 2000. So I couldn't say hello and tell you I still wave across the river, and still picture you over there.
I hate this every year board, but I'm glad you are
checking in.Shelli
Posted by CtrlAlt n Del on April 26, 2002, at 15:50:45
In reply to Birds--and a poem for LiLi, Dreamer » CtrlAlt n Del, posted by beardedlady on April 25, 2002, at 7:48:28
little bird
{@>
{()}
- ""-------
Posted by Zo on April 26, 2002, at 21:25:42
In reply to Re: Birds--and a poem for LiLi, Dreamer, posted by beardedlady on April 26, 2002, at 5:49:00
Posted by anks on November 11, 2003, at 18:37:32
In reply to Re: ... » LiLi80, posted by shelliR on April 25, 2002, at 14:04:32
> Lilli,
>
> I know this all sounds so unrelated to the depression that feels like it's eating you up. But I wanted to connect and hope that you can let in some of the things that this group is giving you. Some of us are older and have lived through both ups and downs.
>
> When I was 24, I wanted to die. Some things were wrong in my life and heaviness and pain came over me. I went into the hospital (no better when I came out). But I started an MAOI anti-depressant and the heaviness just lifted. My life was far from perfect and during the rest of my twenties and early thirties I was sad and isolated quite a bit.
>
> I found working horrible. I worked in research; I found 9-5 unbearable and I found office politics unbearable. I received disability. That was really a gift for me--I got to explore areas of art that I couldn't do with a "regular" job.
>
> Then I started a business. Something that was mine and something that I excelled at. I didn't want to die. I worked hard because I was working for myself.
>
> Anyway, I had NO idea that part of life could be wonderful for me. I could have stopped in at age 24. But I didn't, I went on, gathered all the resourses I could and went ahead. Then I thought how lucky I am to have found something I love, and something that makes other people so happy. I am very grateful for my gift and grateful that I get paid for my gift.
>
> In the last few years--particularly this last year, I've been very depressed and want to die. I think it is a biological depression. But I can't off myself because my family loves me and I feel that it would be so selfish. And I try to look back at age 24 and see that I had no idea that I could love things in life. It looked all black ahead.
>
> You hurt so much that you have lost your perspective. You need someone to help you with that, someone who carries this perspective for you.
> You haven't answered questions about a therapist. So life will happen, and it is likely that much of it will happy. I agree with Shar, maybe not a happily ever after, but a mixture of sadness and joy. People who you haven't even met will come into your life who you will like a lot, maybe even love.
>
> Realize how young you are and how much time there is to change. This is the hardest part. To have the faith that things will change. The intensity of life is not as strong as you get older. There is less dispair. You will get through this. And you will see that beyond the blackness there are many colors.
>
> Shelli
Your post, i didn't even check the date, really touched me, im 21 and think much the same way as you seem to. My life over the past five years has had a fair share of depression, anxiety and eating disorders, and many times i have felt that i cant go on, but something inside me believes in a better day. Your words inspired and warmed me, and most importantly offer hope, few of the posts ive read do this, your a living example that there will be better times and that you can free yourself from this, perhaps not forever but for long enough to know that life is worthwhile. Thank you, i hope to hear from you and i hope that life is going well for you. having your own bussiness must be grand, i hope to accomplish this oneday. enjoy.
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