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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Greg on April 25, 2002, at 20:04:48
Here's the update on my daughter's appt with the psychologist.
Well, NaShay (my daughter) and Mary (my wife) were both very nervous as expected. The doctor took them both back and kept them both in the room for the entire time. Mary said it was more of a feeling out process to see where her head was at more than anything else. She asked how she was coping with everything and if she had had any recent suicidal thoughts. Mary said for the first 15 or 20 minutes Nashay's answers were real short and to the point and she seemed very reluctant to talk about suicide. But she did open up and start talking more freely once she got comfortable. The one thing that NaShay kept going back to was that she felt like her Mom and I hear what she says, but that we don't really listen to her. She also talked about how much her and her Mom have been fighting over the last year or so and how it's almost always over stupid, meaningless things. This has always surprised me that they fight so much because they are so inseperable. They go everywhere together, the grocery store, clothes shopping, the mall, everywhere. When they watch TV, they always sit together. I've never understood how two people that are so close can fight so passionately.
Anyway, they seemed to have gotten some productive dialog going and they both looked relieved when they got home. The futute appts will be just my daughter by herself and the doc assured her that anything she says will be kept in confidence unless it involves suicide. If she feels that NaShay is in danger, she will let us know. And she had NaShay make a pact with her that if she gets in that place she will immediately talk to an adult, me, her Mom, her sister. If she feels she can't talk to any of us, she is to call the doctor anytime 24/7. I thought that was a great thing. The doctor also said that she will be wanting to get myself and Brandon (my son) involved on some level in the future. She said that it's important for NaShay that not only she go thru a healing process, but the whole familly as well. That makes a lot of sense to me.
It's a start and there's a long way to go, but I feel good that she is getting help. She overheard me talking to Shar on the phone yesterday, she told me last night that she knows that I think I'm a bad Father. She said she wouldn't trade me for anybody else...Pretty cool kid.Thanks again for the support I've gotten with this. It's been a very scary time for all of us here and having people who understand means a lot.
Greg
Posted by wendy b. on April 26, 2002, at 0:47:34
In reply to My Daughter's Psychologist Appt, posted by Greg on April 25, 2002, at 20:04:48
Greg,
This all sounds very very good. Looks like you have found for your daughter a smart and supportive psychologist. I pray that you will all pull through and that your doing so - as a group of people who love each other - will make you all the more strong. It's these terrible moments that make us who we are... Happiness is so easy, pain is tough, makes us tougher, unfortunately we have to push on through to the other side to get that knowledge...
My daughter (age 10) has been having issues with her father and me. We've been separated for almost 8 years, still not divorced, but that's another story... I'm afraid that even though we have tried to keep her out of the middle of arguments and tensions between him and me, she still has antennae 6 feet high, and can pick up on even the smallest things. And then there are moments when I am straightforwardly critical of him and his neurotic way that he behaves, not dealing with his own problems & OCD tendencies. It's hard for her to deal with it when she has visitation with him every other weekend, he blows up at her for her 'imperfections.' And since it's the reason I left (or the main reason), I feel like I'm throwing her to the lions every time she goes there... and I want to protect her from him, but know at the same time that charity toward him means I will never remove her from being able to see him, etc. Cuz if the shoe were on the other foot, and he tried to keep her from me because of my depression/bipolar illness, I would be devastated... Rambling, here...
Anyway, we recently had to review the court order for visitation. She got mad at her dad for 3 weeks in January, wouldn't talk to him because he had laid her waste emotionally - "You ruined Christmas" he told her (among other things), because she got sick right when she had to go from my house to his house... Anyway, one of the recommendations from the Law Guardian is that she go to therapy, and I feel awful for contributing to her difficulties sorting out the problems her parents have dealt her, first through the separation, then through the other problems subsequently... I realize the struggles we go through, blaming ourselves for not being 'perfect' parents, but it's hard not to give oneself grief, isn't it? We worry so much about them...
Anyway, I feel for you, Greg, and hope you'll let us know more as it happens... Your daughter sounds like she knows what's what, deep down... Beautiful thing she said about not wanting to trade you for anyone else...
much respect,
Wendy
> Here's the update on my daughter's appt with the psychologist.
>
> Well, NaShay (my daughter) and Mary (my wife) were both very nervous as expected. The doctor took them both back and kept them both in the room for the entire time. Mary said it was more of a feeling out process to see where her head was at more than anything else. She asked how she was coping with everything and if she had had any recent suicidal thoughts. Mary said for the first 15 or 20 minutes Nashay's answers were real short and to the point and she seemed very reluctant to talk about suicide. But she did open up and start talking more freely once she got comfortable. The one thing that NaShay kept going back to was that she felt like her Mom and I hear what she says, but that we don't really listen to her. She also talked about how much her and her Mom have been fighting over the last year or so and how it's almost always over stupid, meaningless things. This has always surprised me that they fight so much because they are so inseperable. They go everywhere together, the grocery store, clothes shopping, the mall, everywhere. When they watch TV, they always sit together. I've never understood how two people that are so close can fight so passionately.
>
> Anyway, they seemed to have gotten some productive dialog going and they both looked relieved when they got home. The futute appts will be just my daughter by herself and the doc assured her that anything she says will be kept in confidence unless it involves suicide. If she feels that NaShay is in danger, she will let us know. And she had NaShay make a pact with her that if she gets in that place she will immediately talk to an adult, me, her Mom, her sister. If she feels she can't talk to any of us, she is to call the doctor anytime 24/7. I thought that was a great thing. The doctor also said that she will be wanting to get myself and Brandon (my son) involved on some level in the future. She said that it's important for NaShay that not only she go thru a healing process, but the whole familly as well. That makes a lot of sense to me.
>
> It's a start and there's a long way to go, but I feel good that she is getting help. She overheard me talking to Shar on the phone yesterday, she told me last night that she knows that I think I'm a bad Father. She said she wouldn't trade me for anybody else...Pretty cool kid.
>
> Thanks again for the support I've gotten with this. It's been a very scary time for all of us here and having people who understand means a lot.
>
> Greg
Posted by Greg on April 26, 2002, at 14:32:16
In reply to Re: My Daughter's Psychologist Appt » Greg, posted by wendy b. on April 26, 2002, at 0:47:34
Hi Wendy,
It's always good to hear from you! She does sound like she likes this woman and feels comfortable with her her. She also told me that she likes the idea of having an adult she can talk to that's not going to come running to my wife and I and tell us everything she said. I guess I can relate to that, I wish I would have had someone I could have trusted with my thoughts when I was a kid.
The problems that you describe with your daughter's father is exactly why I feel so much guilt over this. My illness went untreated for so long and I put a lot of unreasonable pressure and expectations on the kids, and that wasn't fair. I can't change what happened, but it's in the nature of who we are that we beat ourselves up over these things (at least some of us do). I think you're a great Mom for trying to protect your daughter and you're right, if it was the other way around...It's never easy being stuck between a rock and hard place but she will respect you as long as she thinks you are doing the right thing. Really sucks that our kids always seem to have to suffer along with us doesn't it?
On a brighter note...are your grapevines bloomin' yet? :) They just built a new road in town that goes thru to one of the main highways and it goes right thru the center of our best wineries. All the vines are turning green and it's drop dead gorgeous!!! At one point all you can see is green... I knew you would be able to appreciate that being a winery buff and all...
Well, give that little one a big hug for me and yourself too. We need to write more often. I'll try to drop in on chat once in awhile even if it's just to listen.
Be well,
Greg> Greg,
>
> This all sounds very very good. Looks like you have found for your daughter a smart and supportive psychologist. I pray that you will all pull through and that your doing so - as a group of people who love each other - will make you all the more strong. It's these terrible moments that make us who we are... Happiness is so easy, pain is tough, makes us tougher, unfortunately we have to push on through to the other side to get that knowledge...
>
> My daughter (age 10) has been having issues with her father and me. We've been separated for almost 8 years, still not divorced, but that's another story... I'm afraid that even though we have tried to keep her out of the middle of arguments and tensions between him and me, she still has antennae 6 feet high, and can pick up on even the smallest things. And then there are moments when I am straightforwardly critical of him and his neurotic way that he behaves, not dealing with his own problems & OCD tendencies. It's hard for her to deal with it when she has visitation with him every other weekend, he blows up at her for her 'imperfections.' And since it's the reason I left (or the main reason), I feel like I'm throwing her to the lions every time she goes there... and I want to protect her from him, but know at the same time that charity toward him means I will never remove her from being able to see him, etc. Cuz if the shoe were on the other foot, and he tried to keep her from me because of my depression/bipolar illness, I would be devastated... Rambling, here...
>
> Anyway, we recently had to review the court order for visitation. She got mad at her dad for 3 weeks in January, wouldn't talk to him because he had laid her waste emotionally - "You ruined Christmas" he told her (among other things), because she got sick right when she had to go from my house to his house... Anyway, one of the recommendations from the Law Guardian is that she go to therapy, and I feel awful for contributing to her difficulties sorting out the problems her parents have dealt her, first through the separation, then through the other problems subsequently... I realize the struggles we go through, blaming ourselves for not being 'perfect' parents, but it's hard not to give oneself grief, isn't it? We worry so much about them...
>
> Anyway, I feel for you, Greg, and hope you'll let us know more as it happens... Your daughter sounds like she knows what's what, deep down... Beautiful thing she said about not wanting to trade you for anyone else...
>
> much respect,
> Wendy
>
>
> > Here's the update on my daughter's appt with the psychologist.
> >
> > Well, NaShay (my daughter) and Mary (my wife) were both very nervous as expected. The doctor took them both back and kept them both in the room for the entire time. Mary said it was more of a feeling out process to see where her head was at more than anything else. She asked how she was coping with everything and if she had had any recent suicidal thoughts. Mary said for the first 15 or 20 minutes Nashay's answers were real short and to the point and she seemed very reluctant to talk about suicide. But she did open up and start talking more freely once she got comfortable. The one thing that NaShay kept going back to was that she felt like her Mom and I hear what she says, but that we don't really listen to her. She also talked about how much her and her Mom have been fighting over the last year or so and how it's almost always over stupid, meaningless things. This has always surprised me that they fight so much because they are so inseperable. They go everywhere together, the grocery store, clothes shopping, the mall, everywhere. When they watch TV, they always sit together. I've never understood how two people that are so close can fight so passionately.
> >
> > Anyway, they seemed to have gotten some productive dialog going and they both looked relieved when they got home. The futute appts will be just my daughter by herself and the doc assured her that anything she says will be kept in confidence unless it involves suicide. If she feels that NaShay is in danger, she will let us know. And she had NaShay make a pact with her that if she gets in that place she will immediately talk to an adult, me, her Mom, her sister. If she feels she can't talk to any of us, she is to call the doctor anytime 24/7. I thought that was a great thing. The doctor also said that she will be wanting to get myself and Brandon (my son) involved on some level in the future. She said that it's important for NaShay that not only she go thru a healing process, but the whole familly as well. That makes a lot of sense to me.
> >
> > It's a start and there's a long way to go, but I feel good that she is getting help. She overheard me talking to Shar on the phone yesterday, she told me last night that she knows that I think I'm a bad Father. She said she wouldn't trade me for anybody else...Pretty cool kid.
> >
> > Thanks again for the support I've gotten with this. It's been a very scary time for all of us here and having people who understand means a lot.
> >
> > Greg
Posted by IsoM on April 26, 2002, at 14:51:48
In reply to Re: My Daughter's Psychologist Appt » Greg, posted by wendy b. on April 26, 2002, at 0:47:34
I'm not feeling good at all but this isn't about me, just the reason why I'm hardly posting & not even reading posts most times either. But I had to read Greg's post on his daughter & then yours, Wendy.
It's good for our children to be around other adults who care about them & who have somewhat different viewpoints but one's that are in line with our own values - in other words, a balanced view. A good therapist or psychologist is such a person too.
In our society nowadays, different age groups are segregated from each other in normal life. Young people spend most of their time with each other, adults with other adults, & old, retired people are shunted off to 'old folks' homes to spend time alone with each other. We no longer have the benefits of mingling all the age groups together so that we understand each other. Our children spend time with teachers, but not in a social context at all. The only adults they're around much are their parents. It's important for them to feel that other adults value their abilities, their input, their humour, their tastes in clothes, music, etc & not just kids their own age.
I've noticed that some of the most well-adjusted, happy teenagers & preteens are those that are around a variety of sound, loving adults that value them & really interact with them on a social level too. I've been privileged to know some wonderful kids & young adults who enjoy my company & will seek me out just to talk & visit with. I feel it keeps me young too & open-minded. No one ever hears me saying "The trouble with young people nowadays..." 'cause I think a lot of the trouble (but not all, of course) comes from the fact older people can't be bothered socialising with young ones helping them feel they have a purpose & role in life.
Please don't think I'm bragging but am only relating what other young ones have said to me. They feel good when adults take an interest in their music, their tastes, their interests. We shouldn't expect them to like everything we like, but conversely, they understand that some of their interests aren't appropriate for my age. But they're much more willing to really check out stuff we like IF we take an interest in their tastes. Besides, a lot of their music, clothes, books, etc ARE very good.
And it helps to sit down & REALLY listen to what they say. To let them know we don't know all the answers & we're still looking. And that often, their suggestions are very good & we can use their ideas too. I don't mean we should be buddy-buddy with our kids - we're still the parents. My 20 year old said to me that if I didn't chastise him from time to time & tell him when I think something isn't a good to do, he'd assume I no longer loved him or cared enough to warn him. It matters very much to him that I correct him still. But we should also be open to correction FROM them & be willing to admit our mistakes & change.
When it all comes down to the basics, I think the most important thing is the fact that we love our children whole-heartedly AND unconditionally. That rock of love will ground them through all the storms that come along. It will give them something to hold onto & to know that we're always there for them, no matter what they do & no matter how we feel. But because so many kids seem inherently insecure while growing up, they need to hear it frequently from us & to hear it said with great sincerity & to see it backed up with our actions too, not just words. I feel blessed that my sons never flinch from hugging me & don't even hold back from giving me a kiss & hug in public. They know I adore them & they adore me in return, but I never try to cling to them or hold on when they want to grow. I've had lots of bad things happen in my life but my sons are my sunshine. Let your children know they're the light of your life too. I think you both are very lucky to have your children love you back. I believe it's one of God's wonderful gifts to mankind.
While they're in their teens, you'll probably question yourself many times, wondering if it'll all turn out well. It will. There'll be mistakes & nothing will be perfect. Your children may grow up with some hang-ups & problems - hey, we're human & they're inherited our problematic genes. But everything will turn out & life can be good. and your values will be appreciated by them, especially as they grow older. God bless you both.
Posted by wendy b. on April 26, 2002, at 18:46:49
In reply to Re: My Daughter's Psychologist Appt » wendy b., posted by Greg on April 26, 2002, at 14:32:16
Hi Greg,
Thanks so much for writing back. It IS great to be in touch, I have flitted in and out of Babble-land, according to my mood, yeah, mood swings, gotta love 'em. A little more hypomanic lately, so am posting more, it goes like that...
I know what you mean about the kids needing a confidential environment in which to talk. That's what it means to be 'safe' in those sometime difficult sessions. Who knows, therapy starting now may keep her from going through a lot of the denial that we went through. It's rotten to feel we have added to their load, but what would parents be if not imperfect and ill-tempered... < :-] (smile)
My daughter has seen a psychologist before, when there was a flare-up between her father and me. It was when she was about 8, around the time when she came home from her dad's and asked me how she could tell who to believe, daddy or you, mommy? Her dad evidently telling her about MY imperfections (which are many, but not the ones he rags on me for!). And it broke my heart to think that she thought we were putting her in that position vis-a-vis us. Like: 'decide who you trust more! daddy or mommy!' I did tell her it wasn't a matter of who was right or wrong, just a matter of how did SHE feel, what were HER experiences and feelings about whatever he was talking about. Try to tell an 8-yr old to distinguish between her own perceptions while at the same time feeling pressured to be on one side or the other... It's an incredibly difficult task for the child, but if anyone could do it, she could. Wise beyond her years...
I do try to teach her to call a spade a spade (aside: as an old fiend of mine might then add "and then, it's not so far from calling a spade a fucking shovel..."). She has been much more able to 'talk back' to her dad after the Christmas debacle... As in: I can risk acting like this becuase I feel safer. Maybe because she knows I won't let him hurt her anymore, since I brought us all back to court over the nastiness at Christmas. I guess she felt 'backed up' in a way. I tell her: YOU are in control of the situation, not him. If she is unhappy with her dad, the Law Guardian can be called and the issues addressed more easily now that the structure of the family court (she has the Guardian to protect her 'interests') is on her side. So while it's been hellish to go back to court, it's ultimately been a helpful thing...
Of course, my illness has only recently been addressed, really only in the past year since I was dx'd bipolar. So I also put a lot of unreasonable expectations on my daughter, and anger and irritability have been hallmarks of my particular strain of the disease. So of course, she would get some of that. It's better now, I have to say, and I feel glad about that.
The wineries: oh, yeah! What a lovely time of year! I think where you are the season is probably further along, we have been pinging and ponging back and forth between very warm and then very cold weather... Driving around here, in the Finger Lakes, it's amazing, like Little Switzerland. We feel so lucky to live here, just lake after lake after lake, each one spectacular in its own way! magnificent! I have been back at the tasting bar, pouring from time to time. Have had a lot of fun with it, even met a fella! (we'll see where it goes...) In the course of it all, have learned so much more about wine and pairing with food, etc. What a lovely way to live, elegant food and a fabulous bottle of wine to go with it! It don't get much bettern' this...
More later, and take good care of yourself, thanks for the hugs! and a mighty hug back to you, and a hug and a Medal of Valor to NaShay. It's hard what she's doing...
Wendy
> Hi Wendy,
>
> It's always good to hear from you! She does sound like she likes this woman and feels comfortable with her her. She also told me that she likes the idea of having an adult she can talk to that's not going to come running to my wife and I and tell us everything she said. I guess I can relate to that, I wish I would have had someone I could have trusted with my thoughts when I was a kid.
>
> The problems that you describe with your daughter's father is exactly why I feel so much guilt over this. My illness went untreated for so long and I put a lot of unreasonable pressure and expectations on the kids, and that wasn't fair. I can't change what happened, but it's in the nature of who we are that we beat ourselves up over these things (at least some of us do). I think you're a great Mom for trying to protect your daughter and you're right, if it was the other way around...It's never easy being stuck between a rock and hard place but she will respect you as long as she thinks you are doing the right thing. Really sucks that our kids always seem to have to suffer along with us doesn't it?
>
> On a brighter note...are your grapevines bloomin' yet? :) They just built a new road in town that goes thru to one of the main highways and it goes right thru the center of our best wineries. All the vines are turning green and it's drop dead gorgeous!!! At one point all you can see is green... I knew you would be able to appreciate that being a winery buff and all...
>
> Well, give that little one a big hug for me and yourself too. We need to write more often. I'll try to drop in on chat once in awhile even if it's just to listen.
>
> Be well,
> Greg
Posted by wendy b. on April 26, 2002, at 19:14:57
In reply to Greg and Wendy ...SO long a post, posted by IsoM on April 26, 2002, at 14:51:48
Iso, dear,
Even if the post is about daughters & such, it's all right to be feeling badly and say so. I wonder what about ~ have noticed your semi-absence, but I'm not all that present either, at times... Start another thread if need be, if you want to talk?
Your advice is wise and comes from a ton of experience, I can tell... Sounds like you have built some great relationships with children and teenagers over the years. I too find myself drawn to them so much! I just feel alive when I'm around them... My daughter's friends and she are just the most raucus bunch of tween-agers, and I love 'em to bits. Look at them now and wonder how each one will adjust, how their features will change, guessing at who's going to be the most popular and who's going to be the smartest, etc. They are just inherently interesting to me... I do try to be the adult who's not their family, but still interested in them and wants to be around them, as you say... (do you teach?) Thus I agree that we segregate the generations way too much, and it's to no one's benefit, seems to me.
I love my daughter's favorite band 'NSYNC! And no other adult I know does! Too bad for them, I say. I have my daughter show me dance moves (she takes hip-hop), and we dance around here on a regular basis. Her interests aren't so difficult to be interested in, as you say. Like you, I too have a much more difficult time figuring out why our generation has such a stick up its *%$#% most of the time.
You sound like a good friend to your group... You should brag about that. Not very many adults can say they spend time on a regular basis with other peoples' kids. It just doesn't happen much at all. So take pride, honey, you are a lighthouse. And they are god's gifts, as you say. My relationship with my daughter is the most important thing in my life. I wonder where I'd be or what I'd be doing without her. She is just there for me to love, plain and simple, and she does love me back, I know it. That love does bring me back from the brink now and again...
Have to run, please know how very much I appreciate the chance to share perceptions about our children. I hope we can share more - and please consider posting what's happening more specifically with you, if you like.
Ciao, bella,
Wendy
> I'm not feeling good at all but this isn't about me, just the reason why I'm hardly posting & not even reading posts most times either. But I had to read Greg's post on his daughter & then yours, Wendy.
>
> It's good for our children to be around other adults who care about them & who have somewhat different viewpoints but one's that are in line with our own values - in other words, a balanced view. A good therapist or psychologist is such a person too.
>
> In our society nowadays, different age groups are segregated from each other in normal life. Young people spend most of their time with each other, adults with other adults, & old, retired people are shunted off to 'old folks' homes to spend time alone with each other. We no longer have the benefits of mingling all the age groups together so that we understand each other. Our children spend time with teachers, but not in a social context at all. The only adults they're around much are their parents. It's important for them to feel that other adults value their abilities, their input, their humour, their tastes in clothes, music, etc & not just kids their own age.
>
> I've noticed that some of the most well-adjusted, happy teenagers & preteens are those that are around a variety of sound, loving adults that value them & really interact with them on a social level too. I've been privileged to know some wonderful kids & young adults who enjoy my company & will seek me out just to talk & visit with. I feel it keeps me young too & open-minded. No one ever hears me saying "The trouble with young people nowadays..." 'cause I think a lot of the trouble (but not all, of course) comes from the fact older people can't be bothered socialising with young ones helping them feel they have a purpose & role in life.
>
> Please don't think I'm bragging but am only relating what other young ones have said to me. They feel good when adults take an interest in their music, their tastes, their interests. We shouldn't expect them to like everything we like, but conversely, they understand that some of their interests aren't appropriate for my age. But they're much more willing to really check out stuff we like IF we take an interest in their tastes. Besides, a lot of their music, clothes, books, etc ARE very good.
>
> And it helps to sit down & REALLY listen to what they say. To let them know we don't know all the answers & we're still looking. And that often, their suggestions are very good & we can use their ideas too. I don't mean we should be buddy-buddy with our kids - we're still the parents. My 20 year old said to me that if I didn't chastise him from time to time & tell him when I think something isn't a good to do, he'd assume I no longer loved him or cared enough to warn him. It matters very much to him that I correct him still. But we should also be open to correction FROM them & be willing to admit our mistakes & change.
>
> When it all comes down to the basics, I think the most important thing is the fact that we love our children whole-heartedly AND unconditionally. That rock of love will ground them through all the storms that come along. It will give them something to hold onto & to know that we're always there for them, no matter what they do & no matter how we feel. But because so many kids seem inherently insecure while growing up, they need to hear it frequently from us & to hear it said with great sincerity & to see it backed up with our actions too, not just words. I feel blessed that my sons never flinch from hugging me & don't even hold back from giving me a kiss & hug in public. They know I adore them & they adore me in return, but I never try to cling to them or hold on when they want to grow. I've had lots of bad things happen in my life but my sons are my sunshine. Let your children know they're the light of your life too. I think you both are very lucky to have your children love you back. I believe it's one of God's wonderful gifts to mankind.
>
> While they're in their teens, you'll probably question yourself many times, wondering if it'll all turn out well. It will. There'll be mistakes & nothing will be perfect. Your children may grow up with some hang-ups & problems - hey, we're human & they're inherited our problematic genes. But everything will turn out & life can be good. and your values will be appreciated by them, especially as they grow older. God bless you both.
This is the end of the thread.
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