![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 16 to 40 of 48. Go back in thread:
Posted by Penny on March 25, 2002, at 14:01:00
In reply to Re: I am SOOOO right where you are!!!, posted by Penny on March 25, 2002, at 14:00:15
Posted by JANNBEAU (homenym) on March 25, 2002, at 20:41:35
In reply to In love with my therapist, posted by allisonf on March 24, 2002, at 6:45:40
>Hi, Allison. I read some of the postings between you and Dinah. Her advice seems really good.
Couple of other thoughts: 1)Although I could be wrong, I think the psychoanalysts felt that a good therapeutic relationship enevitably leads to transference. If so, you're finally getting there, after ten years or so! SOOO--transference isn't a bad thing, handled right--which is your therapist's job!
I like the thing that Dinah did to work through hers--imagining the relationship all the way to its logical--or illogical conclusion--I think there's a name for this technique that goes way back, too. It may also be a form of cognitive therapy, which brings me to my suggestion: When these thoughts, ruminations BOTHER you, use the technique of Thought Stopping, another cognitive therapy tenet. No emotion can occur without a thought first occurring. You can stop the thoughts and thereby stop the emotion. You tell yourself "STOP" and, perhaps, name the thought "stop thinking of so and so in this way or "stop thinking of so and so PERIOD". Do it as many times as you need to eliminate the pesky, obcessive thoughts UNTIL you are READY to deal with them, either completely, or on that specific day.
Again, just a couple of other ways to look at this normal occurrance, especially if it gets in the way with your everyday life.
Cheers,
Jannbeau
Hi all,
> This issue has really been troubling me lately, and I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced transference like this. My issue: I have been going to the same therapist on and off for 10 yrs and was just recently diagnosed cyclothymic. All the other times I have gone to her (for anxiety), it has never gotten this intense (I think I was holding back a lot and am now getting down to another level). I have always had a high regard for her, but lately I can't stop thinking about her. And what makes it weirder to me is that we are both female and I've never really been attracted to women before (i'm married), but suddenly I am thinking of her romantically, maternally, sexually, etc. I am constantly rehearsing in my head what I will say to her next and therapy is becoming the focal point of my week. I can't help but think this is unhealthy. Yes, I have told her about this, we spent awhile talking about it, but she says it will resolve itself eventually, be patient, etc. Should we keep talking about it (and take time away from other issues) or will talking about it continue to fuel the fire? And yes, it is truly transference in that this thing with her mimics previous dysfunctional relationships I have had with men, all of which ended badly. I guess the idea is that if this is resolved positively, then it will *change my life*, right?! But how to "resolve" it??? Any ideas?
> Thanks for listening!
> Allison
Posted by JANNBEAU (homenym) on March 25, 2002, at 20:51:54
In reply to Re: I am SOOOO right where you are!!! » Dinah, posted by Penny on March 25, 2002, at 13:06:13
> Oh! No transference! Although, obviously, I don't know your two therapists and I can't say that your substitute doc is or isn't a good therapist, have you thought that, perhaps, she "rubs you the wrong way" simply because she isn't your regular therapist?
Just another thought. Not meant to "tell" you how you feel or why.Cheers,
Jannbeau (home-nym)Jannbeau
I think my therapist knows her from a professional organization, but I don't think she realizes how she is in session. I mean, she comes across as being nice, but there's something about her that rubs me the wrong way.
>
> Oh...also wanted to say 'ditto' to what Allison said regarding the imagining how things would be were my fantasies about my therapist to come true, and about the book "In Session." I've looked for a book like that for a long time.
>
> Thanks again...
> Best to you, Dinah.
> Penny
Posted by Penny on March 25, 2002, at 22:57:19
In reply to Re: I am SOOOO right where you are!!!, posted by JANNBEAU (homenym) on March 25, 2002, at 20:51:54
Perhaps. But I really think we just didn't click. It took me a while to develop transference feelings for my regular therapist, but I liked her before then. Just got a "I know and you can't change my mind about it and you HAVE to work through this now" attitude from the new one.
Have thought about calling another therapist my therapist is in practice with (the sub isn't in practice with my therapist). My therapist gave me the second therapist's name as a contact if the situation with the arranged sub didn't work out.
I suppose I am probably too sensitive about things, and that is especially true when I'm going through these mood swings. But I tried to convey that, and she didn't back off. So I did.
Penny
> > Oh! No transference! Although, obviously, I don't know your two therapists and I can't say that your substitute doc is or isn't a good therapist, have you thought that, perhaps, she "rubs you the wrong way" simply because she isn't your regular therapist?
>
>
> Just another thought. Not meant to "tell" you how you feel or why.
>
> Cheers,
> Jannbeau (home-nym)
>
Posted by hrtlm on March 26, 2002, at 22:48:49
In reply to In love with my therapist, posted by allisonf on March 24, 2002, at 6:45:40
Posted by wendy b. on March 26, 2002, at 23:34:18
In reply to Maybe you should just fuck her. (nm) » allisonf, posted by hrtlm on March 26, 2002, at 22:48:49
I've been following this thread with interest, and I think you should apologize to Allison. What a hurtful thing to say to someone who is struggling, quite valiantly, in my opinion, with a very difficult and painful issue...
Wendy
Posted by kiddo on March 27, 2002, at 0:06:18
In reply to Maybe you should just fuck her. (nm) » allisonf, posted by hrtlm on March 26, 2002, at 22:48:49
http://dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Sorry, I know this isn't my place, but that was uncivil and really offended/bothered me.
Kiddo
Posted by wendy b. on March 27, 2002, at 0:21:41
In reply to In love with my therapist, posted by allisonf on March 24, 2002, at 6:45:40
Hi Allison, Dinah, Penny, others,
Somehow, I am attracted to this conversation, sorry for interrupting. Penny and Dinah and I have had conversations on the board in the past about this same issue. It keeps cropping up, and probably a good thing, too...
Sexual attraction to your female therapist, wow! That surely must be difficult to deal with, and I know how weird it is to all of a sudden love another woman, when you're not (you didn't think!) gay. But aren't women are so easy to love! I drove past the house of my former therapist several times... I didn't feel ashamed, please don't be so hard on yourselves. For me, it was sort of more like: ok, this is where the almighty Therapist lives, and it's a pretty normal house, larger than mine, yes, but the act of driving by brought it down to a level of reality for me. Like realizing your first grade teacher shits, or your parents have sex... You know...
In the transference, we're working on the elemental, primal relationships with our parents, and acting them out with the therapist. Even, as in my case, parents who weren't around, like my biological father. As someone (Allison I think) mentioned, it's like some of our old realtionships with lovers or spouses... we're just "trying to get it right," somehow, through these surrogate parental figures. Who more than the therapist, the one with the magic key to unlock our minds, would be better for us to work out these things with? Ideally, the therapist is trained to know how to handle the issues, and some even say that the transference is the very heart of the therapeutic relationship.
My therapist for 7 years was the empathetic mother I never experienced. Oh, yes, I had a mother, one who professed her love to her children on a daily basis... But when I was asked by my current therp., if I remembered any special moments where I thought I had been mothered well, some close connection like sitting in my mother's lap or being read to, I couldn't conjure one up. That was revealing... As I grew up and went to college, I became involved with several older men (my mother's age), and tried to get from them what I hadn't gotten from my mother, and from the father I never knew. Of course, it didn't work.
Others have had much more traumatic relationships with their parents than I ever had - being beaten, hurt, ignored, etc. You have probably already done this, but you might ask yourself what it is that needs to be done over, what or who the therapist stands for in your case... Write it down, share it here, if you can. Especially for Penny - you can talk here for the next four weeks. I don't think the substitute therapist is doing any good, and it's too painful to share intimacies with someone you don't trust. I do think working on the transference with the one you love is going to give you the most direct avenue to resolving your feelings of abandonment and loss and hurt. Do it with the actual person who is bringing up those feelings - don't bail out now. So you want to feel special in her eyes... that's ok, that's fine. Didn't you want to be that to your mommy and daddy? Isn't that ok, what we all wanted and should have had, but probably didn't? There is no shame in that, please don't feel ashamed. The little girl inside you needs to come out and ask for and receive what she never got, approval and unconditional love. You are working so very hard at healing those old wounds, and it takes a lot of courage and strength to do it. It's painful, it brings up so many bad feelings, but you've got to do it, and you know it, that's why you're wrestling with this now. Wounds can heal - that is one of the wonderful things about being human...
Sorry to interject at this late point in the conversation - I think you and Penny are doing amazing work, and I know Dinah has struggled with this too. Just hold on, write more here if you can, or use a journal. Dance, sing, invite the beast into your living room...
Wendy
> Hi all,
> This issue has really been troubling me lately, and I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced transference like this. My issue: I have been going to the same therapist on and off for 10 yrs and was just recently diagnosed cyclothymic. All the other times I have gone to her (for anxiety), it has never gotten this intense (I think I was holding back a lot and am now getting down to another level). I have always had a high regard for her, but lately I can't stop thinking about her. And what makes it weirder to me is that we are both female and I've never really been attracted to women before (i'm married), but suddenly I am thinking of her romantically, maternally, sexually, etc. I am constantly rehearsing in my head what I will say to her next and therapy is becoming the focal point of my week. I can't help but think this is unhealthy. Yes, I have told her about this, we spent awhile talking about it, but she says it will resolve itself eventually, be patient, etc. Should we keep talking about it (and take time away from other issues) or will talking about it continue to fuel the fire? And yes, it is truly transference in that this thing with her mimics previous dysfunctional relationships I have had with men, all of which ended badly. I guess the idea is that if this is resolved positively, then it will *change my life*, right?! But how to "resolve" it??? Any ideas?
> Thanks for listening!
> Allison
Posted by Dinah on March 27, 2002, at 0:27:15
In reply to Re: In love with my therapist, posted by wendy b. on March 27, 2002, at 0:21:41
Posted by Dinah on March 27, 2002, at 8:14:23
In reply to Re: I am SOOOO right where you are!!! » Penny, posted by allisonf on March 25, 2002, at 13:21:02
I can only imagine how hrtlm's statement would have made me feel under the circumstances.
Please understand the support that the vast majority of us have for you in this matter.
Posted by beardedlady on March 27, 2002, at 8:18:24
In reply to Re: I am SOOOO right where you are!!!, posted by JANNBEAU (homenym) on March 25, 2002, at 20:51:54
Posted by Penny on March 27, 2002, at 8:23:02
In reply to Re: In love with my therapist, posted by wendy b. on March 27, 2002, at 0:21:41
Wendy,
Thank you for a beautiful post.
Both my pdoc and my therapist have reassured me that my feelings are normal. Both are very understanding. And my therapist said that she would be concerned if I didn't feel that way, considering my history. So, I'm working through it. And I'm handling her being out much better than I had anticipated. And she handles my comments and actions with such grace...I truly admire her.
Thank you again.
Penny
Posted by JANNBEAU (homenym) on March 27, 2002, at 21:05:28
In reply to Re: In love with my therapist, posted by wendy b. on March 27, 2002, at 0:21:41
> Hi, Wendy,
I agree!! Beautiful message. Insightful, kind, loving, realistic, knowledgeable!
I can identify with all that you said about parents, absent or present. My father left when I was 10, my mother worked all the time (I KNOW she loved me, but I didn't FEEL that she loved me! and I knew my FATHER didn't love me or he wouldn't have left me, right?
I've been working on this issue, mostly alone, for the past thirty years! I didn't even recognize the abandonment issue until about ten years ago. I once had a wonderful therapist (male) with whom I, too, fell in love! He was a resident and I only had about 1.5 years with him before he moved on. He was great about preparing me for the separation, although I don't recall ever talking specifically about my abandonment issues. I made marvelous progress with him. I never connected with another therapist like I did with him. That's probably why I eventually became disenchanted with therapy and never completed my work.
I'm with you on this one. I think Penny, Allison, and others should stick with the therapist with whom they have developed the transference relationship as it is possible that transference may be at the heart of a therapeutic relationship (does that sound Freudian or something? It's been too long since I studied psych to remember). At any rate . . .
God Bless and Good Luck,
JannbeauHi Allison, Dinah, Penny, others,
>
> Somehow, I am attracted to this conversation, sorry for interrupting. Penny and Dinah and I have had conversations on the board in the past about this same issue. It keeps cropping up, and probably a good thing, too...
>
> Sexual attraction to your female therapist, wow! That surely must be difficult to deal with, and I know how weird it is to all of a sudden love another woman, when you're not (you didn't think!) gay. But aren't women are so easy to love! I drove past the house of my former therapist several times... I didn't feel ashamed, please don't be so hard on yourselves. For me, it was sort of more like: ok, this is where the almighty Therapist lives, and it's a pretty normal house, larger than mine, yes, but the act of driving by brought it down to a level of reality for me. Like realizing your first grade teacher shits, or your parents have sex... You know...
>
> In the transference, we're working on the elemental, primal relationships with our parents, and acting them out with the therapist. Even, as in my case, parents who weren't around, like my biological father. As someone (Allison I think) mentioned, it's like some of our old realtionships with lovers or spouses... we're just "trying to get it right," somehow, through these surrogate parental figures. Who more than the therapist, the one with the magic key to unlock our minds, would be better for us to work out these things with? Ideally, the therapist is trained to know how to handle the issues, and some even say that the transference is the very heart of the therapeutic relationship.
>
> My therapist for 7 years was the empathetic mother I never experienced. Oh, yes, I had a mother, one who professed her love to her children on a daily basis... But when I was asked by my current therp., if I remembered any special moments where I thought I had been mothered well, some close connection like sitting in my mother's lap or being read to, I couldn't conjure one up. That was revealing... As I grew up and went to college, I became involved with several older men (my mother's age), and tried to get from them what I hadn't gotten from my mother, and from the father I never knew. Of course, it didn't work.
>
> Others have had much more traumatic relationships with their parents than I ever had - being beaten, hurt, ignored, etc. You have probably already done this, but you might ask yourself what it is that needs to be done over, what or who the therapist stands for in your case... Write it down, share it here, if you can. Especially for Penny - you can talk here for the next four weeks. I don't think the substitute therapist is doing any good, and it's too painful to share intimacies with someone you don't trust. I do think working on the transference with the one you love is going to give you the most direct avenue to resolving your feelings of abandonment and loss and hurt. Do it with the actual person who is bringing up those feelings - don't bail out now. So you want to feel special in her eyes... that's ok, that's fine. Didn't you want to be that to your mommy and daddy? Isn't that ok, what we all wanted and should have had, but probably didn't? There is no shame in that, please don't feel ashamed. The little girl inside you needs to come out and ask for and receive what she never got, approval and unconditional love. You are working so very hard at healing those old wounds, and it takes a lot of courage and strength to do it. It's painful, it brings up so many bad feelings, but you've got to do it, and you know it, that's why you're wrestling with this now. Wounds can heal - that is one of the wonderful things about being human...
>
> Sorry to interject at this late point in the conversation - I think you and Penny are doing amazing work, and I know Dinah has struggled with this too. Just hold on, write more here if you can, or use a journal. Dance, sing, invite the beast into your living room...
>
> Wendy
>
>
>
> > Hi all,
> > This issue has really been troubling me lately, and I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced transference like this. My issue: I have been going to the same therapist on and off for 10 yrs and was just recently diagnosed cyclothymic. All the other times I have gone to her (for anxiety), it has never gotten this intense (I think I was holding back a lot and am now getting down to another level). I have always had a high regard for her, but lately I can't stop thinking about her. And what makes it weirder to me is that we are both female and I've never really been attracted to women before (i'm married), but suddenly I am thinking of her romantically, maternally, sexually, etc. I am constantly rehearsing in my head what I will say to her next and therapy is becoming the focal point of my week. I can't help but think this is unhealthy. Yes, I have told her about this, we spent awhile talking about it, but she says it will resolve itself eventually, be patient, etc. Should we keep talking about it (and take time away from other issues) or will talking about it continue to fuel the fire? And yes, it is truly transference in that this thing with her mimics previous dysfunctional relationships I have had with men, all of which ended badly. I guess the idea is that if this is resolved positively, then it will *change my life*, right?! But how to "resolve" it??? Any ideas?
> > Thanks for listening!
> > Allison
Posted by JANNBEAU (homenym) on March 27, 2002, at 21:10:19
In reply to Rambo? ; ) (nm) » JANNBEAU (homenym), posted by beardedlady on March 27, 2002, at 8:18:24
Did I say something wrong? I don't understand your post "Rambo"---maybe I'm obtuse. If so, I don't think I want to understand it.
If I sounded less than sympathetic, it wasn't meant that way, but was just a thought, since I've been there, too. See earlier post to Wendy.
Jannbeau
Posted by JANNBEAU (homenym) on March 27, 2002, at 21:34:27
In reply to Re: no transference » JANNBEAU (homenym), posted by Penny on March 25, 2002, at 22:57:19
>Hi, Penny. Understood! That makes sense. I guess I was, to some extent, trying to be "funny"--hard when you are typing your thoughts rather than speaking them, and when you don't know the person to whom you write.
You're right, it does take time for transference to develop, maybe because it involves, above all other things, trust. I've been there, too--unbelievable issues with abandonment with which I still wrestle (and I am old! I have adult children!). I, also, developed a transference relationship with a therapist-just once-and I made more progress with him than with any other psychotherapist I ever had. I think it is a necessary part of the therapeutic relationship, if you are ready to deal with your issues. Guess I wasn't finished when I stopped!
I wish you luck AND love, in ALL your relationships. Perhaps working through your pain is the best way to obtain both.
Jannbeau
Perhaps. But I really think we just didn't click. It took me a while to develop transference feelings for my regular therapist, but I liked her before then. Just got a "I know and you can't change my mind about it and you HAVE to work through this now" attitude from the new one.
>
> Have thought about calling another therapist my therapist is in practice with (the sub isn't in practice with my therapist). My therapist gave me the second therapist's name as a contact if the situation with the arranged sub didn't work out.
>
> I suppose I am probably too sensitive about things, and that is especially true when I'm going through these mood swings. But I tried to convey that, and she didn't back off. So I did.
>
> Penny
>
> > > Oh! No transference! Although, obviously, I don't know your two therapists and I can't say that your substitute doc is or isn't a good therapist, have you thought that, perhaps, she "rubs you the wrong way" simply because she isn't your regular therapist?
> >
> >
> > Just another thought. Not meant to "tell" you how you feel or why.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jannbeau (home-nym)
> >
Posted by beardedlady on March 28, 2002, at 5:21:38
In reply to Re: Rambo? ; ), posted by JANNBEAU (homenym) on March 27, 2002, at 21:10:19
Oh, sorry. You added homenym to your name. I was trying to think of something that sounded like Jannbeau but that was spelled differently. (Of course, when I realized that it would sound EXACTLY LIKE jannbeau but be spelled differently, I hit the confirm button instead of the revise button, where I'd have deleted the stupid thing.) That was very insensitive of me, considering the seriousness of posts that I didn't read.
I have been in a giddy mood lately, and it's getting me into trouble. I will shut up now.
beardy : )>
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2002, at 8:20:21
In reply to Re: I am SOOOO right where you are!!! » Penny, posted by allisonf on March 25, 2002, at 13:21:02
Really, the vast majority of us are supportive. I hope one cruel post didn't drive you away.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 28, 2002, at 8:42:04
In reply to Maybe you should just fuck her. (nm) » allisonf, posted by hrtlm on March 26, 2002, at 22:48:49
Please don't use language that might offend others, thanks.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, or complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Posted by Penny on March 28, 2002, at 14:02:01
In reply to In love with my therapist, posted by allisonf on March 24, 2002, at 6:45:40
Posted by allisonf on March 28, 2002, at 16:32:19
In reply to Maybe you should just fuck her. (nm) » allisonf, posted by hrtlm on March 26, 2002, at 22:48:49
I wish.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 28, 2002, at 16:39:47
In reply to Re: Maybe you should just fuck her. » hrtlm, posted by allisonf on March 28, 2002, at 16:32:19
Please, everyone, no language that might offend others -- even if it's inserted automatically (you can always delete it). Thanks,
Bob
Posted by allisonf on March 28, 2002, at 17:07:56
In reply to Allison, Are you OK? » allisonf, posted by Dinah on March 28, 2002, at 8:20:21
Hi Dinah, Penny, Wendy, Dr. Bob and all the other people who have posted supportive messages for me,
***Thank you!*** No, that one post, tho mildly insulting, didn't drive me away (see my instinctive reply--I did it before I read all the other supportive comments, which I really appreciate!) I'm sorry I've been away from the bd for a few days...I had a session on Tues. and I have been having some trouble dealing with it. I went in all prepared (yes, I actually rehearsed it!) to talk about why I have trouble disclosing things to her (thus getting into the transference issues that I know she wants to hold off talking about) and we ended up on another topic entirely (partly b/c I didn't want to go against her wishes to not talk about the transference). So, I've spent the past few days calling and leaving various messages (she tried me once, but has been I think busy with the holiday)about how I have more to tell her, etc. but now I am so frustrated, I am thinking of quitting therapy altogether. I know that one should not quit things when they get difficult, that transference is actually a positive sign, but...therapy is just becoming too all-consuming! I just want things to be back the way they used to be between us, and in my own life. Any advice? I know you will all say I should hang in there, but I'm not sure how. I did try the idea you had Dinah, about imagining things thru to a conclusion, but I got stuck on the fact that I don't even know how it would all play out--it's not as straightforward as imagining for example, whether I would like being a speech therapist, know what I mean? If I imagined my therapist and I living together--would we be dealing with each others' children and messy divorces? I can't even visualize going there...But thank you *so so much* for the In Session recommendation. I just got it today and it looks great! Thank you again for asking about me.
Penny, hope you are doing well, and I second the someone who said that you shd use this thread to talk about things. Also, I will definitely send you an e-mail soon. Thanks for being so supportive.
Also, Wendy, I appreciate your wonderful post.
Sorry, Dr. Bob, my other post was just a reflex. Sorry for the language.
I will keep you posted...any added thoughts would certainly be appreciated!
Allison
Posted by Penny on March 28, 2002, at 19:25:15
In reply to Thank you everyone, posted by allisonf on March 28, 2002, at 17:07:56
Thanks from me too, Dinah, for the "In Session" recommendation. Mine came in today's mail as well, and I'm so looking forward to reading it! I've read just the beginning, and, wow...Deborah Lott is in my head. She's writing about me. And that's pretty scary. But, at least I know I'm not alone!
Thanks again.
Penny
Posted by christophrejmc on March 28, 2002, at 20:38:16
In reply to Re: In love with my therapist, posted by JANNBEAU (homenym) on March 27, 2002, at 21:05:28
Is this sort of thing uncommon for males? I've certainly experienced it, but I've noticed that most (all?) of the responses have been from females. Of course it really doesn't matter at all, I was just wondering.
Also, about the book "In Session," is it written specifically for women, or do you think it's of benefit for either sex (I tend to not like psych books for/about "typical males" or "typical females," as I don't really fit in either category)?
-christophre
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2002, at 21:31:11
In reply to Re: In love with my therapist, posted by christophrejmc on March 28, 2002, at 20:38:16
It really is a terrific book. I found it most useful in figuring out what I DIDN'T feel for my therapist, but I know it would be useful the other way around too.
Transference doesn't just happen with women. Perhaps we're just more open in talking about it? I am having trouble picturing a heterosexual male client talking about his romantic feelings for his male therapist. Perhaps that is a stereotype. Any guys out there in love with their therapists?
The full title of Deborah Lott's book is "In Session: The Bond Between Women and Their Therapists", but after reading it, I think many of the experiences described in it could apply to men as well.
Two other books that describe, among other things, clients' feelings for therapists and therapists' feelings for clients are "Shrink Rap: Sixty Psychotherapists Discuss Their Work, Their Lives, and the State of Their Field" and "Second Opinions: Sixty Psychotherapy Patients Evaluate Their Therapists", both by Lee D. Kassan.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.