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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sar on February 15, 2002, at 17:20:58
a couple of days ago i received a Valentines Day card from my parents: "From both of us, to our daughter," with all of those silvery enraised words that come on the fronts of greeting cards--how "wonderful" and "joyous" i am, "more than any parents could wish for" etc. enclosed was a ten-dollar bill.
this threw me into raucous sobs. i don't want to be repetitive, 'cos i've talked about it before, but my parents have put me into double binds my entire life. Trouble's thread above struck a chord with me, though my situation was/is not nearly so devastating as hers. Mine was the regular physical/emotional abuse and neglect, speckled with pedestalising me--spending hundreds of dollars on shopping trips at the mall(they wore discount clothes themselves), giving me the food off the plate, one moment saying "You're so clever!" and then "You're an alcoholic, a degenerate slut! You con artist. You're gonna end up living under a bridge." then a good ole beating.
sorry, i did get repetitive. i'm working through getting over the abuse, and that's fine, but i was upset at this phony card with the tenner to "go to your favorite coffeeshop." i don't think they're making up with me, this has happened thousands of times, and i'm sick of it. sure, i can throw the card away, but i'm still left with the hour-long crying screaming fit and a sleepness night (because i do love them, i do!).
have any of you reconciled a situation like this? during my fit, i wrote a note on the card telling them to please quit hurting me, to leave me alone and keep their phony professions that assauge only their own egos...but i asked my older friend about it (she's kind of my surrogate momma-friend) and she said i should just ignore the card, and next time i move, not give them my address.
all prospects break my heart...
Posted by sid on February 16, 2002, at 1:08:54
In reply to disturbing card, posted by sar on February 15, 2002, at 17:20:58
I have learned not to get hurt by some people over time. They still send their wishes for my b-day and for the Hollidays, I read it sometimes, sometimes it goes right in the trash can. If I feel the least bit vulnerable I choose to protect myself and throw it away.
You could ask a friend to look in the enveloppe for you and give you what's in it (money, lottery tickets, whatever you could have use of), and then to throw the rest away. It takes time, but you need to protect yourself from more hurt from them. If not reading what they send is what it takes, then it'll be your way of talking better care of yourself. Be good to yourself, do for yourself what you would like a benevolent person do for you.
I hope you find a way to stop the hurt, but again, it takes time, especially when it comes to family members.
- sid
Posted by noa on February 16, 2002, at 14:23:04
In reply to Re: disturbing card » sar, posted by sid on February 16, 2002, at 1:08:54
Is it possible that they will never change? Accepting that might be helpful, though very hard. Probably, in their minds they are just being "nice" by sending the card, having no insight whatsoever into their own present and past behavior or into what your experience of life is. Maybe they are not consciously trying to hurt you, they are simply very very clueless. When you were a child, their self-centeredness and clueless ness and inability to see how their actions affected you--that was neglect and abuse and you were unable to leave that situation to get away from that. Now, their cluelessness hurts, but you do have control to live your life away from them, to build your life differently.
The same inability to tune into your feelings that was there your whole childhood. Why would they change now? I wonder if the intensity of the pain you feel opening their card (which does certainly come across as a shallow little gesture) comes in part from the incredible disappointment of knowing they have not changed--still the same shallow gestures alternating with the abuse.
We all have that wish -- that maybe just maybe they will change, and it can be so painful when you get an in-your-face reality check showing that they haven't changed.
YOU are changing and that is what matters.
In the meantime, while it is still so raw and painful, have a friend open it for you, like sid suggested.
Take the $10 and do something ironic with it--something good for you but that your parents would consider frivolous or wouldn't approve of. Or, here's irony for you--donate it to a charity for abused children. That can be your little way of taking back some control.
Posted by sar on February 16, 2002, at 14:47:09
In reply to Re: disturbing card, posted by noa on February 16, 2002, at 14:23:04
thank you very much for the advice. i can't read their shit anymore, inspite of the curiosity, you know?
i'll have a friend open the cards--if there will be anymore--from now on.
Noa, i really like your advice about donating the money to an abused-children fund. i *really* like that. not only do i have a soft heart for kids--especially abused ones--but irony gives me glee too.
thank you...
love,
sar
Posted by Reneeb on February 16, 2002, at 19:46:03
In reply to Re: disturbing card, posted by sar on February 16, 2002, at 14:47:09
Hi Sar, When I read your thread boy did it hit home. I would like to tell you my story without boring you with a lot of detail. My parents were very abusive and alcoholics- My Mother verbally and my Father verbally and physically. He was also abusive with my mother. I would step in to protect her and get the shit beat out of me. He told me I would never amount to anything, that I should learn to use my body because thats all woman are good for!! I practically raised my twin brother and sister who were the youngest and needed my help. When my mother would get drunk she would tell them to go to me from now on if they needed anything since I was their mother.I could go on for days with examples. Great role models huh!!!
I am sure you have been thru therapy. Where I spent most of my life. What conclusions I have made about my parents is that they did the best they could with what they had. If you look back at their parents and so on.. you probably see a pattern of abuse. They didn't have the help we have today. I decided two things -1) I needed to brake the chain with my daughter and 2) I wasn't going to give the hate any more of my energy. It has already taken up way too much of my life as it is.
If your parents are anything like mine. Everything got swept under the carpet like it didn't even happen.
One more thing Sar, I know forgiveness is tough and when I say forgiveness, I am talking about you finding it in your heart it doesn't have to be shared with them. I would hate to see you carrying their shit for the rest of your life.
Take Care,
Renee
Posted by trouble on February 18, 2002, at 2:33:37
In reply to disturbing card, posted by sar on February 15, 2002, at 17:20:58
> i don't think they're making up with me, this has happened thousands of times,
Like Noa says Sar, YOU are changing and that's what counts.
A psychic gave me a piece of advice regarding my own ma that turned out to be true. She said, "This relationship will never change but the more YOU heal the more the relationship will heal."
Another thought came from a friend right after my mom died, she said
At last you can have a real relationship with her.Sorry if this sounds vapid (it did to me), but both predictions turned out to be as fully realized as the more linear counsel I'd been offered, especially the latter remark.
I do sometimes find myself wishing my mother was still here b/c NOW I KNOW WHAT TO SAY TO HER, but then I realize that it's enough if I finally know what to say to her, as it damn well better be since we both know that dead or alive my mom has deaf ears.
Sounds like your parents may be similarly afflicted.
trouble
Posted by Shar on February 23, 2002, at 0:16:55
In reply to Re: disturbing card, posted by noa on February 16, 2002, at 14:23:04
Sar,
I think Noa's perspective on this is right on. There is no reason to believe they will be any different now than before (even though we may WANT them to be different). IMHO, the question you could be asking yourself is "do I want a close relationship with people who treat me this way?" If the answer is no, it may be easier to find your way out of the tangled web.Shar
> Is it possible that they will never change? Accepting that might be helpful, though very hard. Probably, in their minds they are just being "nice" by sending the card, having no insight whatsoever into their own present and past behavior or into what your experience of life is. Maybe they are not consciously trying to hurt you, they are simply very very clueless. When you were a child, their self-centeredness and clueless ness and inability to see how their actions affected you--that was neglect and abuse and you were unable to leave that situation to get away from that. Now, their cluelessness hurts, but you do have control to live your life away from them, to build your life differently.
>
> The same inability to tune into your feelings that was there your whole childhood. Why would they change now? I wonder if the intensity of the pain you feel opening their card (which does certainly come across as a shallow little gesture) comes in part from the incredible disappointment of knowing they have not changed--still the same shallow gestures alternating with the abuse.
>
> We all have that wish -- that maybe just maybe they will change, and it can be so painful when you get an in-your-face reality check showing that they haven't changed.
>
> YOU are changing and that is what matters.
>
> In the meantime, while it is still so raw and painful, have a friend open it for you, like sid suggested.
>
> Take the $10 and do something ironic with it--something good for you but that your parents would consider frivolous or wouldn't approve of. Or, here's irony for you--donate it to a charity for abused children. That can be your little way of taking back some control.
Posted by sar on February 25, 2002, at 19:32:18
In reply to Re: disturbing card, posted by trouble on February 18, 2002, at 2:33:37
>
> A psychic gave me a piece of advice regarding my own ma that turned out to be true. She said, "This relationship will never change but the more YOU heal the more the relationship will heal."that's true true true...but do you suppose it works both ways--that they'll have to improve too? they seem to be worsening.
> Sorry if this sounds vapid (it did to me), but both predictions turned out to be as fully realized as the more linear counsel I'd been offered, especially the latter remark.i'm sorry about your mother. i read the post a couple of weeks ago in which you describe her more fully, so i realize that closure on that type of relationship--your mother, the person who ought to be your *protector*--must have been very difficult.
> I do sometimes find myself wishing my mother was still here b/c NOW I KNOW WHAT TO SAY TO HER, but then I realize that it's enough if I finally know what to say to her, as it damn well better be since we both know that dead or alive my mom has deaf ears.
mine too! they probably should have gotten together to snatch spatulas out of each others hands and then smack their own "fannies." :)
> Sounds like your parents may be similarly afflicted.
>
> troublethanks for the insight...i like the idea of focusing on myself as a means of improving my relationships.
Posted by sar on February 25, 2002, at 19:33:17
In reply to Re: disturbing card, posted by sar on February 25, 2002, at 19:32:18
Posted by sar on February 25, 2002, at 19:43:09
In reply to Re: disturbing card, posted by Shar on February 23, 2002, at 0:16:55
IMHO, the question you could be asking yourself is "do I want a close relationship with people who treat me this way?" If the answer is no, it may be easier to find your way out of the tangled web.
Hi Shar!how are you?
my feelings on this are mixed....when i was doing some psychology research last year i came a term that defined my relationship with my parents fully: "double binds." they are, in a way, really lovely people...my mom (of all things) is one of the most popular teachers at her school, and my dad is quite an insightful writer. they both have violent streaks though, and believe, i guess, that because they were abused i should be too. (they're not the "break the cycle" type...) it's difficult to break the whole thing off because they provided me with so much intellectual encouragement, privacy, and were always ready to indulge whatever my new diet/fashion whims of the day were, when they dressed so inexpensively themselves. they allowed me to be v. frivolous, and with love.
the flipside of the coin is Abuse.
the next card was a birthday one (my birthday is just a few days after Valentine's Day), full of more professions of love, but i wonder why i see it only in my mom's curly round teacher handwriting instead of through her lips or in her eyes? i know her love only through handwriting.
i threw the card away.
anyway, thanks, Shar, and i hope you are well. it's always difficult to decide what to do in these relationships...
love,
sar
Posted by Shar on February 27, 2002, at 1:07:51
In reply to Re: disturbing card..Shar, posted by sar on February 25, 2002, at 19:43:09
Sar, in part of your response you wrote:
"it's difficult to break the whole thing off."
I could not agree more. Nor do I think it is necessary to break the whole thing off. I truly believe it is possible to reach an understanding that we will not get love from [parents] and we can still have some sort of limited relationship with them. Of course, if they badly abused you, even that may be out of the question.
If you do want a limited relationship with them (one in which you don't expect them to express their love to you in a meaningful way) you can work on achieving that. I don't believe it is necessary (or useful) to throw the baby out with the bathwater (think in either/or terms).
I hope you are doing well, and that you had a very nice birthday!
Shar
> IMHO, the question you could be asking yourself is "do I want a close relationship with people who treat me this way?" If the answer is no, it may be easier to find your way out of the tangled web.
>
> Hi Shar!
>
> how are you?
>
> my feelings on this are mixed....when i was doing some psychology research last year i came a term that defined my relationship with my parents fully: "double binds." they are, in a way, really lovely people...my mom (of all things) is one of the most popular teachers at her school, and my dad is quite an insightful writer. they both have violent streaks though, and believe, i guess, that because they were abused i should be too. (they're not the "break the cycle" type...) it's difficult to break the whole thing off because they provided me with so much intellectual encouragement, privacy, and were always ready to indulge whatever my new diet/fashion whims of the day were, when they dressed so inexpensively themselves. they allowed me to be v. frivolous, and with love.
>
> the flipside of the coin is Abuse.
>
> the next card was a birthday one (my birthday is just a few days after Valentine's Day), full of more professions of love, but i wonder why i see it only in my mom's curly round teacher handwriting instead of through her lips or in her eyes? i know her love only through handwriting.
>
> i threw the card away.
>
> anyway, thanks, Shar, and i hope you are well. it's always difficult to decide what to do in these relationships...
>
> love,
> sar
Posted by ambrosialdelight on March 3, 2002, at 16:32:56
In reply to Re: disturbing card..Shar » sar, posted by Shar on February 27, 2002, at 1:07:51
Sometimes I find that in order to "forgive" someone, I have to punish them first. I make sure they know that I am punishing them and for what reason, after that it's easier for me to "forgive". Here punish does not mean abuse them back...
Posted by sar on March 4, 2002, at 1:27:21
In reply to forgiveness....and what not..., posted by ambrosialdelight on March 3, 2002, at 16:32:56
> Sometimes I find that in order to "forgive" someone, I have to punish them first. I make sure they know that I am punishing them and for what reason, after that it's easier for me to "forgive". Here punish does not mean abuse them back...
when my house burned down and i lost all material possessions, i lived with my parents for 9 months. my dad referred to me as "the mockingbird" because i drank, cried, and occasionally accused them of horrible misjustices. in their early sixties, i hoped that they would understand their screw-ups in the past two decades...but no...
i've learned that some people don;t want to learn.
This is the end of the thread.
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