![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fi on November 15, 2001, at 8:04:30
> Thanks for reminding me that there is hope. Today is one of those days that I forgot such a concept existed.
> Blessings for your contribution and as you get on with your life.
>
> Chris A.I'm new to the list and really interested in this thread. I'm getting on OK- v lucky- after having several bouts of depression in the past.
But one big problem is that I dont have any hope for the future. I'm not religious, and very pragmatic. The only things I *know* will happen are bad things- anything good is a bonus at the time but cant be predicted. It would be great to have some realistic hope- at the moment the best I can do is to tell myself nice things *may* happen, but that's not much cop...
Also- can someone tell me what a pdoc is? (I'm not US or chat-literate!)
Thanks
Posted by tensor on November 15, 2001, at 9:19:41
In reply to Re: There is Hope for Everyone, posted by fi on November 15, 2001, at 8:04:30
Hi fi,
pdoc stands(as far as I know) for doctor specialized in psychiatry.
Are you getting any medication for your depression?
btw, your name fi, has that something to do with Finland? I'm finnish... but resides in Sweden.
/tensor
> I'm new to the list and really interested in this thread. I'm getting on OK- v lucky- after having several bouts of depression in the past.
>
> But one big problem is that I dont have any hope for the future. I'm not religious, and very pragmatic. The only things I *know* will happen are bad things- anything good is a bonus at the time but cant be predicted. It would be great to have some realistic hope- at the moment the best I can do is to tell myself nice things *may* happen, but that's not much cop...
>
> Also- can someone tell me what a pdoc is? (I'm not US or chat-literate!)
> Thanks
Posted by fi on November 15, 2001, at 9:31:08
In reply to Re: There is Hope for Everyone, posted by tensor on November 15, 2001, at 9:19:41
Thanks Tensor!
Fi is a nickname I had. Actually I'm Scottish, but we're both European?! Thanks for the pdocs translation.
I'm on Prozac all the time now, which has stopped me having any bouts of proper clinical depression. (Also had years of therapy that didnt seem to make any difference-now stopped).
I'm lucky that I've never had any problem with side effects, and delighted that life is now much less likely to be blighted out of the blue. Its been great- after a gap of several years I've now been on holiday a couple of times without problems.
Now its just the natural pessimism I've probably always had, really.Calvinistic gloom?!
Fi
> Hi fi,
>
> pdoc stands(as far as I know) for doctor specialized in psychiatry.
>
> Are you getting any medication for your depression?
>
> btw, your name fi, has that something to do with Finland? I'm finnish... but resides in Sweden.
>
> /tensor
>
>
>
>
> > I'm new to the list and really interested in this thread. I'm getting on OK- v lucky- after having several bouts of depression in the past.
> >
> > But one big problem is that I dont have any hope for the future. I'm not religious, and very pragmatic. The only things I *know* will happen are bad things- anything good is a bonus at the time but cant be predicted. It would be great to have some realistic hope- at the moment the best I can do is to tell myself nice things *may* happen, but that's not much cop...
> >
> > Also- can someone tell me what a pdoc is? (I'm not US or chat-literate!)
> > Thanks
Posted by mair on November 15, 2001, at 16:18:51
In reply to Re: There is Hope for Everyone, posted by fi on November 15, 2001, at 9:31:08
> Fi - I think I know what you mean. I've told my therapist and my pdoc (psychiatrist) that I have times when I feel just ok and then others when I feel different levels of true depression. I don't ever feel great (bouyant?) I don't know whether this is some medication effect (flatness) or just that after years of dealing with depression I'm cynical and jaded. I do know that I don't trust good feelings when they do intrude - I'm pretty sure the bad ones are a second away. For me a good day is when I am enough "in the moment" that I give very little thought to the fact that I do have this chronic condition. That I now ocassionally have these days or significant parts of such days is a huge improvement.
By the way welcome to the Board.
Mair
Posted by fi on November 16, 2001, at 4:30:56
In reply to Re: There is Hope for Everyone, posted by mair on November 15, 2001, at 16:18:51
Hi Mair and thanks for the welcome!
Of course, we're all different, but with me I think I have always been rather a pessimistic person. And anyone whose dealt with anything dreadful has a right to be a bit on the cynical/jaded side (whether depression or some other psy or physical illness, or something social like a messy divorce or redundancy). So for me it wouldn't be a medication side effect- tho dont know if that's good news or bad news for you if the same applies?I dont think for me its completely a mood thing- its being too realistic about life and needing some concrete facts that prove there really are things to be hopeful about! But meanwhile, as you say, the alternative wise tactic is to live in the present.
When I do find I'm actually enjoying myself and then realise I'm thinking 'but it wont last..' I now give my self a (metaphorical) kick in the shins and tell myself to enjoy it meantime regardless, and not spoil it for myself. Which sometimes works.
There are 2 positive things I have had out of being depressed, although they in no way balance the vast number of horrible ones. One is that you can value just feeling OK so much, and not take if for granted (the other is that your shared understanding with other people in the same mess can help them, and make you feel useful).
This can be just the same with people who have other conditions, like heart disease or cancer- its all a normal psychological reaction to something dire. The problem is that with depression its our psychologicals which are affected by the condition, so it gets hard to pick out what bits are due to depression and what bits are normal reactions... Not that it makes a difference on how to deal with them, I suppose. Just helps reassure us that some of it isnt pathological, I suppose!!
For the bits where it is depression distorting my thinking, when I am in the thick of a bout, it helps me enormously to keep just a corner of my mind which recognises that my thinking is distorted,and reminds me to keep a little sceptical of whether my doomladen thoughts are valid.
I hope messages this long are OK for this list...
fi
> > Fi - I think I know what you mean. I've told my therapist and my pdoc (psychiatrist) that I have times when I feel just ok and then others when I feel different levels of true depression. I don't ever feel great (bouyant?) I don't know whether this is some medication effect (flatness) or just that after years of dealing with depression I'm cynical and jaded. I do know that I don't trust good feelings when they do intrude - I'm pretty sure the bad ones are a second away. For me a good day is when I am enough "in the moment" that I give very little thought to the fact that I do have this chronic condition. That I now ocassionally have these days or significant parts of such days is a huge improvement.
>
> By the way welcome to the Board.
>
> Mair
Posted by jay on November 17, 2001, at 3:13:26
In reply to Re: There is Hope for Everyone, posted by fi on November 15, 2001, at 8:04:30
> > Thanks for reminding me that there is hope. Today is one of those days that I forgot such a concept existed.
> > Blessings for your contribution and as you get on with your life.
> >
> > Chris A.
>
> I'm new to the list and really interested in this thread. I'm getting on OK- v lucky- after having several bouts of depression in the past.
>
> But one big problem is that I dont have any hope for the future. I'm not religious, and very pragmatic. The only things I *know* will happen are bad things- anything good is a bonus at the time but cant be predicted. It would be great to have some realistic hope- at the moment the best I can do is to tell myself nice things *may* happen, but that's not much cop...
>
> Also- can someone tell me what a pdoc is? (I'm not US or chat-literate!)
> ThanksA great analogy was made in the book
Noonday Demon. "Depression is sadness about the past...Anxiety is fear of the future." No, it is not quite that simple, but it covers a lot of ground.What I find a powerful tool in attacking both depression and anxiety, along with meds to help control symptoms, is breaking your life into very, very tiny goals. "Family, Job, Home" is the title of a chapter of another excellent book on mental health in Canada (I can't recall the name.)
Make sure some of the basic things in your life can be somehow managed, and these are often major stressors that can burden our depression and anxiety. If people can, forcing yourself to keep a basic daily routine, in particular a job...any job. One of the worse pieces of advise doctors can give is for people to "take time off" for mental health (in the short run, fine, but not over many years.)Use services in your community to attain afordable housing. Maybe a house is too expensive, and there are many excellent income-scaled co-op apartments.
In your family, even if everyone seems completely against you or messed up, try and seek out atleast one person who you somewhat trust, and try to keep in touch. Seperate yourself from very toxic relationships.
Spend as much time as possible reading up on good books on mental health. Spend less time in front of the t.v., and give yourself a "news break". Especially with the horrific events of Sept. 11, there is little you can do by just watching or reading about them constantly. You are ill, and need to focus on your healing before you are capable of doing much else on the world stage.
This is just randomn pieces of info, because there are no tried-and-true answers. I have collected this from my readings and experience over many years with this dang illness, but I also have had the ability to study much of it, getting my social work degree as well as working in the community of mental health. I am both a consumer and helper. We can all be that...and you don't need a degree.
This is a great thread...I hope to hear many other ideas and takes.
Jay
Posted by Fi on November 17, 2001, at 13:10:17
In reply to Re: There is Hope for Everyone » fi, posted by jay on November 17, 2001, at 3:13:26
Thanks for those wise observations, Jay. I have tried not watching the news myself (at the most just
do the headlines) and agree that its a very good idea.
Actually turned the TV *off* to check my email, so that's a good start!I was a health professional *before* I got depression (still working but in different field)- I would be
a much better health prof now!I had a stage of reading lots of books but have got out of the habit- will have another shot.
You've got me thinking re practical ways to get thru the day. I gathered quite a bunch; I'll think about
which might be useful to pass on to others. They could be pretty basic, such as my ways of ensuring I get
out of bed in the morning (isnt that just so incredibly hard often- even if you're feeling pretty OK?) I use
any or all of:
1. Being woken by a radio alarm tuned to a station with cheerful chat (Terry Wogan on Radio 2, if there are other UK folk
out there).
2. Having a noisy alarm clock too far away to reach from bed
3. Lying in a position I know will get uncomfortable but only giving myself the option of that
or getting up.
4. Bribery; eg I have work to get myself up Mon-Fri but tape Buffy (goes out around 1am in UK) as a bribe
to get up on Sat.
5. If its actually during a bout of depression, reminding myself this is the worst I'll feel all day. And that
on past experience, I will feel worse if I lie in bed than if I get up.
6. Trying not to link getting up with getting cold- a dressing gown (I think that's a 'robe' in US)plus warm bedroom and bathroom.
7. An absolute ban on ever, ever getting back into bed once I've got up.If people find tips like these useful, I'll let you know some more..
Fi
>
> A great analogy was made in the book
> Noonday Demon. "Depression is sadness about the past...Anxiety is fear of the future." No, it is not quite that simple, but it covers a lot of ground.
>
> What I find a powerful tool in attacking both depression and anxiety, along with meds to help control symptoms, is breaking your life into very, very tiny goals. "Family, Job, Home" is the title of a chapter of another excellent book on mental health in Canada (I can't recall the name.)
> Make sure some of the basic things in your life can be somehow managed, and these are often major stressors that can burden our depression and anxiety. If people can, forcing yourself to keep a basic daily routine, in particular a job...any job. One of the worse pieces of advise doctors can give is for people to "take time off" for mental health (in the short run, fine, but not over many years.)
>
> Use services in your community to attain afordable housing. Maybe a house is too expensive, and there are many excellent income-scaled co-op apartments.
>
> In your family, even if everyone seems completely against you or messed up, try and seek out atleast one person who you somewhat trust, and try to keep in touch. Seperate yourself from very toxic relationships.
>
> Spend as much time as possible reading up on good books on mental health. Spend less time in front of the t.v., and give yourself a "news break". Especially with the horrific events of Sept. 11, there is little you can do by just watching or reading about them constantly. You are ill, and need to focus on your healing before you are capable of doing much else on the world stage.
>
> This is just randomn pieces of info, because there are no tried-and-true answers. I have collected this from my readings and experience over many years with this dang illness, but I also have had the ability to study much of it, getting my social work degree as well as working in the community of mental health. I am both a consumer and helper. We can all be that...and you don't need a degree.
>
> This is a great thread...I hope to hear many other ideas and takes.
>
> Jay
Posted by robinibor on November 17, 2001, at 14:12:47
In reply to Re: There is Hope for Everyone, posted by Fi on November 17, 2001, at 13:10:17
>
> I had a stage of reading lots of books but have got out of the habit- will have another shot.
>> > This is a great thread...I hope to hear many other ideas and takes.
I'm sending one of my favorite sections from our website. As many of you know, Richard O'Connor (author of Undoing Depression, and my husband) is a therapist who has depression himself. This piece is from the Living Well section of http://www.undoingdepression.com
Enjoying ourselves is a skill that can be learned. Many of us are uncomfortable with happiness. When occasionally we stumble on it, it scares us. We have to approach it with care.
One way to get used to enjoying ourselves is to work on feeling proud. This is an uncomfortable feeling, but one we can get used to with practice. Take a few minutes each day and jot down in a notebook a list of three things you've done that you feel good about. These may be things you thought you couldn't do, or difficult tasks you had to force yourself to do, or just spontaneous acts of generosity or intimacy. After a week, look through the notebook at all the things you can feel good about. If you start to feel a little proud of yourself, you will probably be a little uncomfortable with that feeling. Never mind all the theorizing about why it's hard for you to feel proud; just ride out the discomfort for a few minutes. You'll see that the discomfort soon recedes a little. With practice, before long you may start feeling pretty good about yourself.
Another way is to pay attention to small pleasures. Most people are not good at being "in the moment"--instead of paying attention to what's actually going on around us, we're worried about what's going to happen next, or feeling bad about what happened before. We can change this habit too. Cultivate a better awareness of how your mind takes you away from the present; when you notice it, bring yourself back. Pay more attention to your senses than your thoughts. Attend to the taste of your food, the sounds in the evening with the TV off, the colors in the rooms you live in. Do what you can to make things more pleasant for yourself.
Find opportunities for flow, the experiences that take us out of our temporal consciousness. Practice activities that are a mild challenge, that occupy our minds and bodies, that require a high degree of concentration, that have clear rules and prompt feedback. Practice concentration, making a deliberate effort to focus your attention on the task at hand. Forget yourself, lose the observing eye that is always evaluating you critically. Even at work, even if you hate your job, you will like yourself better if you find ways to make it challenging and stimulating. If this means you work harder and the boss will be pleased with you, that's just a risk you've got to take.
Learn to relax. Take a course in yoga, or t'ai chi. Take care of your body, and learn to listen to it. Eat healthy but delicious meals. When we neglect or abuse our bodies, we're only being passive aggressive with ourselves. We're treating ourselves as if we're unworthy of love. Unless we treat ourselves with care and respect, we can't hope for joy.
Posted by Fi on November 18, 2001, at 7:18:30
In reply to Re: There is Hope for Everyone, posted by robinibor on November 17, 2001, at 14:12:47
What a great selection of ideas! I was sitting here giving myself a hard time about not doing all the things I should be (gardening, washing up, getting rid of the heaps of paper sitting about...).
I think I'll get myself going by finding some small nice thing as a start.... Thanks to you, and Richard.
Posted by Gracie2 on November 26, 2001, at 21:27:52
In reply to Re: There is Hope for Everyone, posted by Fi on November 18, 2001, at 7:18:30
Yes there is hope for everyone, and there have been excellent suggestions made in this thread.
In the first place, I've always been the same way, even when I was a young child...I've never been perky or bubbly or optimistic or even particularly friendly. I don't think this is so much being anti-social as simply being shy.
In the second place I always figured, if you expect the worst, you cannot be disappointed. It's almost like my life's motto. At the same time, it may be a self-fulfilling prophecy.My pdoc told me to please try and manage a good brisk walk every day, in the sun if I could manage it. I don't have an excuse for not doing it, because I'm fortunate enough to only have to work part-time, and I have a large dog that desperately wants and needs the excercise.
I also very much need a hobby, so I'm going to start a saltwater aquarium. That should be keep me busy, even if it's digging the dead fish out of the water. But I'm going to learn as much about it as I can before I start this project.
Keep busy.
Don't spend all day in bed or in front of the TV.
Excercise and get out into the sun, if you can make yourself do it.
Find something that really interests you; start a creative hobby.
Help others more unfortunate than yourself.
Eat well.
Keep alcohol and drugs to a minimum.
Don't isolate yourself- talk to people.
Take care of yourself. Keep your appointments with the doctor, the dentist and the hairdresser.
Read good books.
Listen to good music.
Keep your surroundings and yourself clean.
_
Shalom-
Gracie the Depression Expert
This is the end of the thread.
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