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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on November 13, 2001, at 17:19:22
> I, too, "use" dissociation to zone out and numb myself from my feelings. But it is different from true dissociation where you lose awareness of yourself, who you are, where you are, etc. But sometimes I am amazed at how much time can pass when I am in this zoned out state.
Hi Noa,
Actually, as I was searching through the archives, I saw where this was discussed before. I think my experience with dissociation sounds quite similar to what you and Anita described in the previous thread.
It's definitely not DID, and there is absolutely no amnesia or fugue or anything. However, I have no coherent sense of who I am.
I do think of my emotional side as "her" and my thinking self as "me." I don't understand what "she" is thinking or doing at all. I think it's just a form of short hand that reflects the total alienation between the two parts of myself. Just as an example, "she" is very dependent on and attached to my therapist as a source of safety. I'm not and don't understand or trust the attachment.
Posted by judy1 on November 13, 2001, at 19:14:38
In reply to Re: Dinah- dissociation » Noa, posted by Dinah on November 13, 2001, at 17:19:22
I really think there should be a further breakdown of dissociative states; what Dinah just described is definitely not 2 personalities but (help me here) ego states? Noa, you mentioned losing a lot of time, I was curious how much? I actually travel and lose a couple of days but I'm not aware of different personalities although something is definitely going on since I'm able to function. Any input? Thanks- judy
Posted by Noa on November 13, 2001, at 20:45:33
In reply to continuum of dissociation, posted by judy1 on November 13, 2001, at 19:14:38
I lose a few hours at most, but I don't totally lose them in terms of blanking out or anything. As for those lost days, when you function but have no memory of how, etc., maybe you need someone to observe you and be able to report about how you are at those times.
I think you're right about a continuum--it makes sense. The dramatic version of having totally distinct personalities, I imagine, would be the rarest version, I would think. But the one people think of when talking about dissociation, while there might be a lot more variations than that.
What Dinah describes is a bit more distinctly separate than what I have experienced. For me, it is different mood states that take over how I see myself, ie, it is the split between "depressed me" and "not depressed me". When in one state, it would be like watching one tv channel, unable to envision the existence of the other, let alone see it. Over time, I was able to gradually have it be more like a split screen, or like picture within picture, etc. I really have come a long way because now I do see both of my "selves" at the same time, and don't lose touch with the non-dominant mood state. There still is some split functioning--like my work self, where I feel competent and motivated, and my weekend self, which is unmotivated, and perhaps bogged down by feeling I am not worth putting out effort for, etc....but I am able to be aware of both and how I come in and out of them, whereas in the past that was harder for me.
Posted by Dinah on November 13, 2001, at 21:44:28
In reply to Re: continuum of dissociation, posted by Noa on November 13, 2001, at 20:45:33
> Over time, I was able to gradually have it be more like a split screen, or like picture within picture, etc. I really have come a long way because now I do see both of my "selves" at the same time, and don't lose touch with the non-dominant mood state. There still is some split functioning--like my work self, where I feel competent and motivated, and my weekend self, which is unmotivated, and perhaps bogged down by feeling I am not worth putting out effort for, etc....but I am able to be aware of both and how I come in and out of them, whereas in the past that was harder for me.
That's great Noa. How did you come to be more aware of both states at once? (I like the split screen analogy.) Are there therapeutic techniques that help? I'm working on the technique of mindfulness right now, but while I can see that as a useful grounding technique, I can't see it helping the alienation or the continuity of being. It would help if I could remember how it feels to be not depressed when I am depressed. It seems my memory storage is related to my mood state, so that when I am depressed it feels like I have always been depressed.
Posted by Mair on November 13, 2001, at 22:11:06
In reply to Re: continuum of dissociation » Noa, posted by Dinah on November 13, 2001, at 21:44:28
"It would help if I could remember how it feels to be not depressed when I am depressed. It seems my memory storage is related to my mood state, so that when I am depressed it feels like I have always been depressed."
Dinah - are you sure this isn't just a case of how long you've been depressed? I find that I really can't remember a time when I wasn't depressed. More particularly, I can't seem to identify a time or circumstances when I felt good about myself nor can I look back and (in retrospect) feel good about the person I was. For a time my therapist had me trying on a daily basis to write down a positive memory that involved something that I did, and not just my response to something someone else did. It was embarrassing how difficult this is and I really had a very ordinary childhood. I always have taken this memory lapse to be similar to what happens when you have children. Once they arrive it seems like they've been a part of your life forever and you can't really remember the "single or childless" you. Maybe its just that depression makes us so self absorbed.
Mair
Posted by shelliR on November 14, 2001, at 15:37:49
In reply to continuum of dissociation, posted by judy1 on November 13, 2001, at 19:14:38
> I really think there should be a further breakdown of dissociative states; what Dinah just described is definitely not 2 personalities but (help me here) ego states? Noa, you mentioned losing a lot of time, I was curious how much? I actually travel and lose a couple of days but I'm not aware of different personalities although something is definitely going on since I'm able to function. Any input? Thanks- judy
> I really think there should be a further breakdown of dissociative states; what Dinah just described is definitely not 2 personalities but (help me here) ego states? Noa, you mentioned losing a lot of time, I was curious how much? I actually travel and lose a couple of days but I'm not aware of different personalities although something is definitely going on since I'm able to function. Any input? Thanks- judy
Hi Judy,
Here is an article on the continuum of dissociative states, written by the medical director of the unit at the hospital I go into. http://www.voiceofwomen.com/centerarticle.htmlSome dissociation is normal. Maybe even a lot. ALmost everyone loses time when they drive--it's like all the sudden you're there without any real awareness of getting there. Ego states are usually parts of personality that are a bit cut off but only contain one feeling. If there is a part inside that is always angry, that would generally be labeled an ego state, not as an alter which has a full personality with different feelings and reactions to things.
I think that ddnos should be broken up into more categories. There is one article that I read which did break it up, and I fell under co-conscious did, which is a much more enlightening description than
ddnos. I forget the other categories he described under that diagnosis. When I get time I'm going to try to find that article. Judy, why were you diagnosed as ddnos (rather than did?). Last time after you returned from your unconscious weekend, you said that's not going to happen again. How do you know this, if you didn't know why you went in the first place. I mean I hope you're right, but I wonder why you said this. Also, it is possible to be in a fugue state without having personalities or DID. I don't know much about that, though, but you might look into that as a possibility.Take care,
shelli
p.s., is the depression any better? Have you had any physical effects from your withdrawal?
Posted by judy1 on November 14, 2001, at 17:16:38
In reply to Re: continuum of dissociation » judy1, posted by shelliR on November 14, 2001, at 15:37:49
Hi Shelli,
Thank you so much for posting that article; you're timing is actually incredible. My pdoc diagnosed me as DDNOS, my therp thinks I am DID. I saw her today and got extremely upset that she feels this is what I have- I don't understand my reaction, I think it terrifies me. Maybe that I'm not in total control, I honestly don't know why. I never tell people (other than family) that I'm diagnosed with bipolar disorder, yet I'm open about panic disorder. To say I'm confused is putting things mildly. My pain doc is tapering very slowly and my team is watching me carefully for signs of depression and I lie a lot. Isn't that awful? But I think I've posted before what being in hospitals do to me so I do what I need to in order to avoid them. Sorry for my negativity, I hope you are better and thank you again for the interesting article- you're fortunate to be under such good care- judy
Posted by Noa on November 15, 2001, at 18:09:58
In reply to Re: continuum of dissociation » shelliR, posted by judy1 on November 14, 2001, at 17:16:38
Judy, what supports do you have? Will you have when the baby arrives?
Posted by judy1 on November 15, 2001, at 19:51:19
In reply to Re: continuum of dissociation, posted by Noa on November 15, 2001, at 18:09:58
Thank you for your concern Noa, you have always been a kind person. My husband and I have a 10 y.o. son and I don't think he will leave me despite everything i have put him through. I see my pdoc and therapist weekly I do this for my baby. take care- judy
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