![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 27. Go back in thread:
Posted by Kristi on September 19, 2001, at 0:23:15
In reply to feeling nothing, posted by sar on September 18, 2001, at 23:54:44
Do you live in the US? I forget.... I wanna say like california?!
> if i'd read this earlier, i certainly would have gone out and lit a candle.
>
> i was shocked when i saw the special-edition magazines, the pictures of soot-covered survivors, the blood, the hand-holding building jumpers...
>
> but i haven't cried, i haven't been worried. i saw a picture of osama bin laden in the paper and thought, oooh, he's kind of cute. i feel like i understand why the pakastanis and afghanstans hate us. don't we exploit the shit out of them?
>
> i express sympathy to the survivors and feel sorry that so many innocent victims died, and it makes me smile to see everyone waving American flags around but i'm just not feeling very patriotic, i feel like the other countries deserve to win for a change, i feel like we've been to powerful and exploitative for too long, certainly not that we *deserved* a terorist attack but if you lived in Afghanistan how would you feel about America as a whole?
>
> i feel so fuct up about this, somebody argue with me please...i'm so sorry about the deaths but i feel as if America is one giant asshole...
>
> my dad sits on the couch, the portable phone beside him--"I'm waitin for Dubya to call!" he jokes--he was in vietnam, did 20 years in the navy, and i think this war business has got his juices flowing. he would love to go commandeer a ship--but he is too old.
>
> i'm not speaking from a lot of knowledge, i don't really keep up with current events, just snippets, but--does anyone else feel this way? apathetic--my own fatalism sinks in--i wouldn't mind being bombed, it would solve all of my do-i-or-don't-i questions...or i want to be a neo-hippie out in the streets protesting war...how can we have war with just a few terrorists? it'd have to be a whole country, right?
>
> plz someone do inform, my cognition has sharpened enough to skim the papers but not really read, esp not daily, and i still believe that The Onion is America's Finest News Source--
>
> someone tell me something...
>
> sar
Posted by Kristi on September 19, 2001, at 0:24:42
In reply to feeling nothing, posted by sar on September 18, 2001, at 23:54:44
> if i'd read this earlier, i certainly would have gone out and lit a candle.
>
> i was shocked when i saw the special-edition magazines, the pictures of soot-covered survivors, the blood, the hand-holding building jumpers...
>
> but i haven't cried, i haven't been worried. i saw a picture of osama bin laden in the paper and thought, oooh, he's kind of cute. i feel like i understand why the pakastanis and afghanstans hate us. don't we exploit the shit out of them?
>
> i express sympathy to the survivors and feel sorry that so many innocent victims died, and it makes me smile to see everyone waving American flags around but i'm just not feeling very patriotic, i feel like the other countries deserve to win for a change, i feel like we've been to powerful and exploitative for too long, certainly not that we *deserved* a terorist attack but if you lived in Afghanistan how would you feel about America as a whole?
>
> i feel so fuct up about this, somebody argue with me please...i'm so sorry about the deaths but i feel as if America is one giant asshole...
>
> my dad sits on the couch, the portable phone beside him--"I'm waitin for Dubya to call!" he jokes--he was in vietnam, did 20 years in the navy, and i think this war business has got his juices flowing. he would love to go commandeer a ship--but he is too old.
>
> i'm not speaking from a lot of knowledge, i don't really keep up with current events, just snippets, but--does anyone else feel this way? apathetic--my own fatalism sinks in--i wouldn't mind being bombed, it would solve all of my do-i-or-don't-i questions...or i want to be a neo-hippie out in the streets protesting war...how can we have war with just a few terrorists? it'd have to be a whole country, right?
>
> plz someone do inform, my cognition has sharpened enough to skim the papers but not really read, esp not daily, and i still believe that The Onion is America's Finest News Source--
>
> someone tell me something...
>
> sar
Posted by Jane D on September 19, 2001, at 1:16:11
In reply to feeling nothing, posted by sar on September 18, 2001, at 23:54:44
Sar - I've edited out much of your original post. I hope I haven't misrepresented your comments. I just don't have responses for many of them at the moment.
> if i'd read this earlier, i certainly would have gone out and lit a candle.
-I didn't see it either.
> but i haven't cried, i haven't been worried.-Neither have I. I think that's true for a lot of people.
>i saw a picture of osama bin laden in the paper and thought, oooh, he's kind of cute.
-Sorry. That one I absolutely can't identify with.
>...afghanstans hate us. don't we exploit the shit out of them?
-No. At least not recently. See below.
>...if you lived in Afghanistan how would you feel about America as a whole?
-As a woman I'd probably really wish I was here. Ditto if I were a westernized Afghani (if I were still alive). Remember westernized (by the Taliban definition) means believing that everyone should get an education - even women, believing that anyone should get an education beyond the Koran, that you should be allowed to disagree with your government or your religious leaders (one and the same) and that doing any of these things should not get you killed.
> ... somebody argue with me please...i'm so sorry about the deaths but i feel as if America is one giant asshole...
-(Always happy to argue even when not nvited :) This is probably true of all governments (and all people) some of the time. It's easier to see it in your own country because that is the one who's shortcomings affect you most directly. It's also your responsibility in a way other countries aren't - kind of like the way parents are most upset by their own kids misdeeds.
> plz someone do inform, my cognition has sharpened enough to skim the papers but not really read, esp not daily, and i still believe that The Onion is America's Finest News Source--
http://www.nytimes.com Start with the editorials and op ed pieces. Skip the ones which are too obscurely written. Stay away from the photographs for the time being. The Onion is great but they seem to be prudently sitting this one out.
> someone tell me something...
>
> sar-How about "Everyone is confused".
-Jane
Posted by Marie1 on September 19, 2001, at 7:50:57
In reply to lighting a candle, posted by susan C on September 18, 2001, at 21:21:58
My Northern Virginia community held a candle light service on the court house grounds tonight. Guest speaker was a neighbor who barely escaped certain death last Tuesday (he works in the Pentagon and was less than 100 yds. from where the airplane hit). He lost it during his recitation of the facts. It was extremely emotional for the crowd.
I am rather shocked at Sar's comments that she feels nothing regarding the unprovoked attack of our country and it's aftermath. Is this because of the geographical distance between most of the country's population and the sites of the destruction? I should hope not; this is fuck-you to the entire country. It affects us all.
As far as the "exploitative" nature of our government, the US is the largest contributor of food to Afganistan. I can't imagine how that can be constued as exploitative.
Marie
Posted by Greg A. on September 19, 2001, at 11:05:13
In reply to Re: lighting a candle, posted by Marie1 on September 19, 2001, at 7:50:57
Marie,
I’m not really one for politics, being Canadian eh? We are the Switzerland of North America, although I read that we have offered to commit our vast military resources of 2 or 3 old warships, a fighter plane (maybe even a jet), and some ground troops who will wear white parkas and snowshoes for duty in Afghanistan.
Anyway – some have a different picture of the U.S of America, than givers of food to the needy. There are issues of U.S military presence in areas of the world where U.S. interests must be protected. (can you spell o-i-l?) There are issues of U.S. support of governments for the sake of spreading democracy (can you say ‘cruel dictator in pocket of CIA’?) There are issues of U.S. sale and supply of armaments to one side in a conflict so that they may more effectively dispose of the other party. (who is usually not pro U.S.)
I wrote in an earlier post that I cannot possibly condone the slaughter of innocent people. It makes me sick. But I find myself more appalled by the spectre of such actions when they happen in ‘my neighbouhood’ than when they happen in a distant country with a funny name. I think that nut cases like bin Laden feel that if suicide bombing U.S. military bases in his neighbourhood fails to get our attention, then maybe this will. I find it very frightening that his objective of stamping out evil, was repeated word for word by Pres. Bush.
Just some thoughts from someone who knows only enough to make uninformed judgements.Greg
Posted by Jane D on September 19, 2001, at 11:05:27
In reply to Re: lighting a candle, posted by Marie1 on September 19, 2001, at 7:50:57
Marie - That's not what she said. And, even if it were, this affects us all differently. The people who go in for very open mourning are merely the most visible. Lay off. Please.
- Jane
Posted by Jane D on September 19, 2001, at 11:09:49
In reply to Re: lighting a firecracker, posted by Greg A. on September 19, 2001, at 11:05:13
> Marie,
>
> I’m not really one for politics, being Canadian eh? We are the Switzerland of North America, although I read that we have offered to commit our vast military resources of 2 or 3 old warships, a fighter plane (maybe even a jet), and some ground troops who will wear white parkas and snowshoes for duty in Afghanistan.Greg - Send us your parkas. Wasn't it a lack of same that helped do in the Russians there? - Jane, whose memory is admittedly a little vague on the subject
Posted by susan C on September 19, 2001, at 11:12:32
In reply to Re: lighting a candle, posted by Marie1 on September 19, 2001, at 7:50:57
I like sar, have been numb. Lost in my own world of confusion and obsucurity. We, I think, maybe, all, perhaps, know the U S of A is giant and great and beautiful. We also know there is always some one out there somewhere who wants to pick a fight. Someone who doesnt have what we have, that wants what we have or thinks that we should be made to have what they have.
Is it all about oil? is it all about money?
The candles I lit were made from parafin, a petrolium product.mouse in the cupboard
susan c> My Northern Virginia community held a candle light service on the court house grounds tonight. Guest speaker was a neighbor who barely escaped certain death last Tuesday (he works in the Pentagon and was less than 100 yds. from where the airplane hit). He lost it during his recitation of the facts. It was extremely emotional for the crowd.
> I am rather shocked at Sar's comments that she feels nothing regarding the unprovoked attack of our country and it's aftermath. Is this because of the geographical distance between most of the country's population and the sites of the destruction? I should hope not; this is fuck-you to the entire country. It affects us all.
> As far as the "exploitative" nature of our government, the US is the largest contributor of food to Afganistan. I can't imagine how that can be constued as exploitative.
> Marie
Posted by tina on September 19, 2001, at 11:25:26
In reply to Re: lighting a firecracker, posted by Greg A. on September 19, 2001, at 11:05:13
" I’m not really one for politics, being Canadian eh? We are the Switzerland of North America, although I read that we have offered to commit our vast military resources of 2 or 3 old warships, a fighter plane (maybe even a jet), and some ground troops who will wear white parkas and snowshoes for duty in Afghanistan."
As a fellow canadian, I'm more than a little offended by these statements.
Posted by Greg A. on September 19, 2001, at 11:38:34
In reply to Re: lighting a firecracker » Greg A., posted by tina on September 19, 2001, at 11:25:26
Tina,
Didn't mean to offend you. I read in yesterdays paper that these are the resources we have offered to commit. I did embellish the description. To be accurate - 3 warships, some F18's, and 1400 ground troops.Greg (sorry)
Posted by Kristi on September 19, 2001, at 12:10:31
In reply to Re: lighting a candle, posted by susan C on September 19, 2001, at 11:12:32
> I like sar, have been numb. Lost in my own world of confusion and obsucurity.
I like Sar too.... I guess that's why I promised myself not to respond to this post! Altho it's taking everything I've got.
Here's hoping someone responds the way I would... Kristi
Posted by tina on September 19, 2001, at 13:23:21
In reply to Re: lighting a firecracker, posted by Greg A. on September 19, 2001, at 11:38:34
thanks for clearing that up Greg.
What I forgot from my original "offended" post was the "LOL"
Didn't mean to make you think I was actually offended.
hope you're having a good one
T
> Tina,
> Didn't mean to offend you. I read in yesterdays paper that these are the resources we have offered to commit. I did embellish the description. To be accurate - 3 warships, some F18's, and 1400 ground troops.
>
> Greg (sorry)
Posted by shelliR on September 19, 2001, at 13:55:17
In reply to Re: lighting a candle » Marie1, posted by Jane D on September 19, 2001, at 11:05:27
> Marie - That's not what she said. And, even if it were, this affects us all differently. The people who go in for very open mourning are merely the most visible. Lay off. Please.
> - JaneJane.
I don't think either Sar *or* Marie said anything wrong. If Sar is going to bring up such a controversial subject, it is to be expected that there *will* be controversial reactions. She actually asked for reactions and is exploring why she has had no feelings. I think Marie's reaction was absolutely appropriate. She wasn't saying that the most visible mourners are the "true" mourners, she was saying that the bombing in New York and Washington has strongly affected her and her community and also she has strong feelings about it being a national issue. And I felt that she was trying to understand Sar, by saying that perhaps it was the distance which made her feel nothing. I guess I thought your directive to her to "lay off" was hurtful. (even with the please.)
It is strange to be so offended by what you say, because I have grow used to always respecting and mostly agreeing with your opinions. You might have been trying to protect Sar, but Sar didn't ask to be protected. Saying "lay off" chilled me because it was a directive, and the only directives issued on this board should by Dr. Bob, and I have never seen his power used harshly.
Shelli
Posted by Jane D on September 19, 2001, at 14:09:59
In reply to Re: lighting a candle » Jane D, posted by shelliR on September 19, 2001, at 13:55:17
Shelli - Fair enough. You're right. I was way out of line.
Marie - I hope you will accept my apology. I had no right to say what I did.
Jane
Posted by shelliR on September 19, 2001, at 14:44:11
In reply to Re: Apologies to Marie » shelliR, posted by Jane D on September 19, 2001, at 14:09:59
Posted by fluffykitty on September 19, 2001, at 17:37:56
In reply to Re: lighting a candle » Jane D, posted by shelliR on September 19, 2001, at 13:55:17
So where is this photo published if at all now?
Is it on the web? ?!?!?!thanks.
Posted by Marie1 on September 19, 2001, at 22:48:37
In reply to Re: lighting a candle, posted by Marie1 on September 19, 2001, at 7:50:57
This is against my better judgment - I keep telling myself not to go farther with this, but I don't think I'll sleep tonight if I don't respond to the responses :-)
Shelli, thanks for understanding my post and for what you wrote in my defense.
Greg, I'm not as naive as I may seem. My family and I have actually lived outside the US (my husband is a computer whiz), and I know first hand that other nations don't necessarily hold the same high opinion of my country as I do. Certainly my country's motives are sometimes questionable. But sometimes I believe we (Americans) do things just because they're the right thing to do. Like feeding half the world's population and providing medical care and expertise where it otherwise wouldn't be. All for oil? I don't think so.
Jane, I appreciate your apology. Did I over-react to Sar's post? Maybe, but as you pointed out, we're all different people with diverse views. And Sar was asking for other opinions.Marie
Posted by kazoo on September 20, 2001, at 1:21:45
In reply to feeling nothing, posted by sar on September 18, 2001, at 23:54:44
> ... don't we exploit the shit out of them?
^^^^^^^^^^^
No, not really.
After all, the U.S. gave Afghanistan 132 million U.S. dollars in aid in just this year alone (according to CNN) and has done so for many years.
I realize that by today's standard with POWERBALL lottery sums exceeding 300 million (at times), that this amount is a mere drop in the bucket, but it also happens to be the ONLY drop in the bucket. No other country does this.
And this money is exclusive of the medical, humanitarian and food supplies we give in generous amounts with no quid pro quo expressed.
So much for exploitation.
"Don't look a gift horse in the mouth." is something you will not find in the Koran. Can't be translated in Arabic without losing the essence.Re. feeling nothing, I give you Cole Porter:
I get no kick from champagne
Mere alcohol doesn't thrill me at all
So tell me why should it be true
That I get a kick out of youSome they may go for cocaine
I'm sure that if, I took even one sniff
It would bore me terrifically too
But I get a kick out of youkazoo
Posted by Greg A. on September 20, 2001, at 11:46:08
In reply to Re: lighting a candle, posted by Marie1 on September 19, 2001, at 22:48:37
Marie,
I agree that the US provides huge quantities of aid to other countries. I guess all of us who live in the land of home theatre, satellite dishes, and $150 jeans should think about sharing, if we don’t already. Maybe it’s human nature for the recipient of help to be less grateful than you would expect and yet have a very long memory when it comes to grudges.
As a citizen of the world of plenty, I can see that we have stuck our noses into many parts of the world when we are not happily received. Oil is one example. Democracy, religion, political philosophy, are others. And sometimes even when we think we are doing the right thing by introducing our ‘better’ western way of living, this is not the right kind of help and is perceived as an affront to cultures much older than ours.
I see a major problem today with our consumer society. A great deal has been written in recent years about depletion of the earth’s resources and destruction of the environment. Much of this is done in the name of progress and at the expense of people living in other parts of the world and of people who will live on this planet in decades to come. Capitalism demands that we sell the goods we produce to an ever expanding market. There is great concern about the effect of introducing our western consumer culture to the 2 billion or so people in China. As a single species, humans already consume almost half of the primary productivity of planet earth. One species!
I used to think that technology would always be a step ahead of our troubles and would save us from ourselves. Now I think that much of technology is very misdirected and rather than saving us, is giving us the means of our own destruction.
Sorry for the soapbox, Marie. We are not evil by nature, I don’t believe, but we do not pay attention to the consequences of our actions over the long term. As a parent, I think a lot about what I will be leaving to my kids – and not houses or bank accounts. One of the elders of a local Indian Band here said ‘I want my growing children to be able to enjoy the same things I did. The water, the land, the air, and all things that live there.’
What has this got to do with how the U.S. is perceived, or with terrorism. I don’t know. I kind of got lost here.
By the way – how is the long term relationship situation?Greg
Posted by sar on September 21, 2001, at 12:12:24
In reply to feeling nothing, posted by sar on September 18, 2001, at 23:54:44
dear all,
thanks for the interesting discussion, and a big hug to Shelli for understanding where i was coming from. i wasn't trying tp provoke or argue; i brought this up on PSB as a psychological and social issue--why i feel (or don't feel) the way i do. and part of those feelings are disgust at my own country for so consistently--well, what Greg said--but at the same time, i'm glad to live here, of course i stare at the rubble--photos in shock. yesterday i saw a still-photo of dan rather crying on the dave letterman show. that really touched me; the seriousness of all of this became apparent--i've grown up with dan rather, and to see him cry...and to see letterman look grim...
geographically, i'm separated, yes. down in texas. (this morning i saw a 4 x 4 truck with "fuck afghanistan" written in shoe polish on the back windshield--welcome to texas, yall!--) but much of my family lives in new york, and one of my uncles lives just a few miles from the pentagon. i'm not close to these people, but they're my blood, my family, and i love them...
i hope i didn't offend anyone with my post...i was just curious to see if anyone felt the same way. i feel strongly that we must defend ourselves, but i also understand why the mid-east hates us.
perhaps i shall acquire a job as a diplomat.
anyway, thanks for understanding (if you do)...it's not that i don't care, it's all sewn up in what Greg, Shelli, and Jane said. right on, yall.
love,
sar
Posted by sar on September 21, 2001, at 13:01:59
In reply to Re: feeling nothing (a dentist's delight) » sar, posted by kazoo on September 20, 2001, at 1:21:45
cole porter is tha shiznit.
:)
Posted by Marie1 on September 21, 2001, at 20:59:20
In reply to Re: lighting a candle, posted by Greg A. on September 20, 2001, at 11:46:08
Hey Greg,
The relationship with the s.o. is basically the same, except we're bending over backwards to be nicer to each other these days. Not exactly insincerely, but there's a sort of unspoken agreement to avoid subjects that we're well aware will set each other off. Part of the problem is we've been building a new house and trying to sell this one. Naturally, it's the Murphy's Law of construction and real estate. I mean, can you imagine a worse political climate to have your house on the market? There were days when we sniped continuously because of stress. I'm not sure if we've cleaned up our act because of the world crisis situation or because I've been threatening lately to drag him to counseling :-), using *my* therapist!
So how goes it with you? How have you been feeling lately? Are you and your wife considering couple's therapy? If you are, or have, let me know how it's gone. I'm not going down without at least trying. Take care.
Marie> Marie,
>
> I agree that the US provides huge quantities of aid to other countries. I guess all of us who live in the land of home theatre, satellite dishes, and $150 jeans should think about sharing, if we don’t already. Maybe it’s human nature for the recipient of help to be less grateful than you would expect and yet have a very long memory when it comes to grudges.
> As a citizen of the world of plenty, I can see that we have stuck our noses into many parts of the world when we are not happily received. Oil is one example. Democracy, religion, political philosophy, are others. And sometimes even when we think we are doing the right thing by introducing our ‘better’ western way of living, this is not the right kind of help and is perceived as an affront to cultures much older than ours.
> I see a major problem today with our consumer society. A great deal has been written in recent years about depletion of the earth’s resources and destruction of the environment. Much of this is done in the name of progress and at the expense of people living in other parts of the world and of people who will live on this planet in decades to come. Capitalism demands that we sell the goods we produce to an ever expanding market. There is great concern about the effect of introducing our western consumer culture to the 2 billion or so people in China. As a single species, humans already consume almost half of the primary productivity of planet earth. One species!
> I used to think that technology would always be a step ahead of our troubles and would save us from ourselves. Now I think that much of technology is very misdirected and rather than saving us, is giving us the means of our own destruction.
> Sorry for the soapbox, Marie. We are not evil by nature, I don’t believe, but we do not pay attention to the consequences of our actions over the long term. As a parent, I think a lot about what I will be leaving to my kids – and not houses or bank accounts. One of the elders of a local Indian Band here said ‘I want my growing children to be able to enjoy the same things I did. The water, the land, the air, and all things that live there.’
> What has this got to do with how the U.S. is perceived, or with terrorism. I don’t know. I kind of got lost here.
> By the way – how is the long term relationship situation?
>
> Greg
Posted by Greg A. on September 24, 2001, at 16:28:47
In reply to Re: lighting a candle, posted by Marie1 on September 21, 2001, at 20:59:20
Marie,
Glad to hear you are still working at your relationship. (Are you still not drinking?) It’s tough when you have been together for a long time because many of the issues have been around for many years. I find that changing established patterns is really hard for me. I have good intentions but then under the pressure of everyday life I revert back to form. I tend to do a lot of things on my own. My social life went to hell a number of years ago when my depression peaked and I have not gotten things in order. In fact I have very little interest in anything social it seems – and I know my wife hates that. Since I have been relatively well lately, I am active, but I find a lot of my activities are solitary. I bicycle – alone. I do woodwork projects – alone. There are rare times when I miss human company but I seem to satisfy myself by being a big part of my daughters’ activities. My wife was pointing out one day how few other couples we do things with unless our kids are involved. I know this is true, but I often find I don’t have the desire or energy to go and be social. I seem to be content with this although I know that she is not. We talk about it – but not much. It seems to be common that when we are really depressed, we wish for the minimum. Just to have some energy and desire to do something. To have the ability to concentrate or to make simple decisions. Then, when we feel better – we want everything. Happiness, excitement, challenges. All the things we have missed out on. For me, I always have the fear that I will slip back. In a way this has helped me to consider with some care what I take on. I try to stay away from pushing myself to overachieve now, something which caused me a lot of problems in the past.
My wife and I have gone to some joint counseling sessions in the past. We seem to be very adept at skirting around the real issues. I think I am most at fault for this because I tend to try to ignore things and hope they will go away, or as i said above, be satisfied with the status quo. We have shifted back into overload mode now with kids back at school and wife teaching full time. It doesn't leave a lot of time to resolve issues and the months just fly by.
I am doing okay. Pretty stable lately in my mood and I suppose not drinking has helped that. I have some real anxious times, but am generally more able to stay cool and make decisions. I would like to feel better yet, but I will give it time and hope for the best. At least by stopping drinking, I feel I am doing all I can.Take Care,
Greg
Posted by Marie1 on September 24, 2001, at 20:30:38
In reply to Marie, , posted by Greg A. on September 24, 2001, at 16:28:47
Greg,
I think you're right that quitting drinking is doing something positive for yourself. That in itself should help you feel better mentally. I am continuing to abstain, but probably not for long. We are closing on our house in about 3 weeks and, well, we have this sort of tradition involving champagne in the parking lot after such occasions, so I feel I *have to* participate, I mean it *is* a tradition...;-) Hopefully, I'll be able to keep it to several glasses, not bottles!
You know, you sound as though you actually have some insight into your marriage and patterns of behavior. You learned these things in therapy? And do you feel that knowing these things (if you put them into practice) can help re-build your marriage? Can it make feelings come back? I'm very reticent about trying therapy, afraid of finding out we can't make this work, afraid of the unknown, afraid of what will come out. I don't think my husband really knows how I feel. I've never told him because I don't want to hurt him. I think I'm also afraid he feels the same way, and if I knew that, I'd be devastated. All hope gone.
I just erased a whole paragraph relating to sex. Partly because I feel intrusive asking you personal questions, but also I realized I can't broadcast details of my sex life over the internet. Discretion is the better part of...whatever.
So are people commenting on the new improved you yet? I wonder if appealing to vanity is an AA technique? If not, it should be. Take care.Marie
> Marie,
>
> Glad to hear you are still working at your relationship. (Are you still not drinking?) It’s tough when you have been together for a long time because many of the issues have been around for many years. I find that changing established patterns is really hard for me. I have good intentions but then under the pressure of everyday life I revert back to form. I tend to do a lot of things on my own. My social life went to hell a number of years ago when my depression peaked and I have not gotten things in order. In fact I have very little interest in anything social it seems – and I know my wife hates that. Since I have been relatively well lately, I am active, but I find a lot of my activities are solitary. I bicycle – alone. I do woodwork projects – alone. There are rare times when I miss human company but I seem to satisfy myself by being a big part of my daughters’ activities. My wife was pointing out one day how few other couples we do things with unless our kids are involved. I know this is true, but I often find I don’t have the desire or energy to go and be social. I seem to be content with this although I know that she is not. We talk about it – but not much. It seems to be common that when we are really depressed, we wish for the minimum. Just to have some energy and desire to do something. To have the ability to concentrate or to make simple decisions. Then, when we feel better – we want everything. Happiness, excitement, challenges. All the things we have missed out on. For me, I always have the fear that I will slip back. In a way this has helped me to consider with some care what I take on. I try to stay away from pushing myself to overachieve now, something which caused me a lot of problems in the past.
> My wife and I have gone to some joint counseling sessions in the past. We seem to be very adept at skirting around the real issues. I think I am most at fault for this because I tend to try to ignore things and hope they will go away, or as i said above, be satisfied with the status quo. We have shifted back into overload mode now with kids back at school and wife teaching full time. It doesn't leave a lot of time to resolve issues and the months just fly by.
> I am doing okay. Pretty stable lately in my mood and I suppose not drinking has helped that. I have some real anxious times, but am generally more able to stay cool and make decisions. I would like to feel better yet, but I will give it time and hope for the best. At least by stopping drinking, I feel I am doing all I can.
>
> Take Care,
>
> Greg
Posted by Greg A. on September 25, 2001, at 17:16:34
In reply to Greg, posted by Marie1 on September 24, 2001, at 20:30:38
>You know, you sound as though you actually have some insight into your marriage and patterns of behavior.I’m not sure I have what you could call insight. I have hindsight. I have nearsight. I think I perhaps have outsight – where you view a situation you are involved in almost in the third person.
>I'm very reticent about trying therapy, afraid of finding out we can't make this work, afraid of the unknown, afraid of what will come out. I don't think my husband really knows how I feel. I've never told him because I don't want to hurt him. I think I'm also afraid he feels the same way, and if I knew that, I'd be devastated. All hope gone.
I’m curious about why you would worry so much that your husband feels like you think you do. If you didn’t care for him, what he felt would not matter much. Is it just a fear of being alone? I know you’ve said before that you are reluctant to give up because of the good things that happened in the past. It’s tough to use that to carry you through the present though.
My experience with therapists is that if the couple is not at each other’s throats, are still living together, and willing to talk, then there is hope and they ‘qualify’ for therapy. You have to find someone your husband can relate to. If he feels that he is with *your* therapist and is the outsider, he will be very defensive. One sure way to make him feel at home is to have the therapist take his side in some issue. My doc did that with me when my wife first went to a session. I think she expected something like ‘so you’re the big cause of this poor man’s suffering.’ What she got was ‘GOD! It must be horrible to live with him! Don’t you find yourself getting depressed having to carry such a load?’ That was exactly what she first wanted to talk about. How much of a strain it was trying to stay level to keep things going and to try to help me at the same time. She got to vent but with another person prompting with the right questions, rather than it appearing to be some outburst on her part.>I just erased a whole paragraph relating to sex. Partly because I feel intrusive asking you personal questions, but also I realized I can't broadcast details of my sex life over the internet. Discretion is the better part of...whatever.
I don’t think the details of your sex life should be posted on the PB Board . . . unless it’s really, really interesting . . .
You can certainly ask personal questions. I won’t be offended. I just might not answer.>So are people commenting on the new improved you yet? I wonder if appealing to vanity is an AA technique? If not, it should be.
Not so far – I guess I am not improved sufficiently yet. I’ll keep my fingers crossed and the wine bottle corked.
Greg
This is the end of the thread.
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