![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 42. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Kingfish on August 8, 2001, at 17:11:11
Sar:
Last post I eavesdroped on, you had been in an accident.
When you have a chance, can you let us know how you are?
You really sound like you're in a downward spiral - having been there myself.
I hope you get to a new pdoc soon!!
- K.
Posted by kid_A on August 9, 2001, at 14:49:16
In reply to Sar: Are you O.K.?, posted by Kingfish on August 8, 2001, at 17:11:11
I'm gonna add in too... Sar, I havent spoken to you since my last blackout event... I hope everything is well with you, or as well as it can be... Please let us know how your doing.k_A
Posted by sar on August 10, 2001, at 16:26:13
In reply to Re: Sar: Are you O.K.?, posted by kid_A on August 9, 2001, at 14:49:16
Dear Kingfish and kid_A,
thank you. i'm doing okay, it's just sucked a lot of energy away--dealing with insurance companies, stacks of solicitous letters from lawyers, bail bonds, court dates, etc--
now i get to sweat it on my bro's bike down to the liquor store. safer anyway!
love
sar
Posted by shelliR on August 10, 2001, at 23:40:25
In reply to sar is okay, posted by sar on August 10, 2001, at 16:26:13
> Dear Kingfish and kid_A,
>
> thank you. i'm doing okay, it's just sucked a lot of energy away--dealing with insurance companies, stacks of solicitous letters from lawyers, bail bonds, court dates, etc--
>
> now i get to sweat it on my bro's bike down to the liquor store. safer anyway!
>
> love
> sarHey kiddo, I'm glad you're okay. And I'm really glad for everyone, that no one was hurt. That would have stayed with you for ever.
I hope you're not putting all your hopes into the med that you're waiting for. It may help but you might in addition work on impulsiveness in a cognitive way. Working very concretely. Like how to not buy alcohol. Breaking everything down into steps, e.g. looking at store, taking a very deep breath, count to ten, another deep breath petal hard.........
It's hard, I know, because you really love drinking I guess. Is the klonopin still helping with your SA?
Are you thinking of doing the therapy thing again? I vote yes.
Your most senior nag,
Shelli
Posted by Wendy B. on August 11, 2001, at 7:51:35
In reply to Re: sar is okay » sar, posted by shelliR on August 10, 2001, at 23:40:25
> > Dear Kingfish and kid_A,
> >
> > thank you. i'm doing okay, it's just sucked a lot of energy away--dealing with insurance companies, stacks of solicitous letters from lawyers, bail bonds, court dates, etc--
> >
> > now i get to sweat it on my bro's bike down to the liquor store. safer anyway!
> >
> > love
> > sar
>
> Hey kiddo, I'm glad you're okay. And I'm really glad for everyone, that no one was hurt. That would have stayed with you for ever.
>
> I hope you're not putting all your hopes into the med that you're waiting for. It may help but you might in addition work on impulsiveness in a cognitive way. Working very concretely. Like how to not buy alcohol. Breaking everything down into steps, e.g. looking at store, taking a very deep breath, count to ten, another deep breath petal hard.........
>
> It's hard, I know, because you really love drinking I guess. Is the klonopin still helping with your SA?
>
> Are you thinking of doing the therapy thing again? I vote yes.
>
> Your most senior nag,
>
> ShelliWell, I must be Miz Junior Nudge, then!
Sar, it's getting past the time to get serious about the drinking... What can I say, I worry about you, even though I've never met you...
I mean, you pass it off as a joke, that oh, well, now you'll ride the bro's bike to the liquor store! No no no, babe, the accident was a 'way big Sign from the Guy/Girl Upstairs. Clean it up now. Right? Accidents happen on bikes, too, you know. And for god's sake, wear the helmet...the other Nudge-Nik,
Wendy
ps: tell me off if you want to, I don't care...
Posted by Kingfish on August 11, 2001, at 9:46:50
In reply to Re: sar is okay » sar, posted by shelliR on August 10, 2001, at 23:40:25
Shelli's simple suggestion, especially with the help of meds, is good, I think. I've done it in the grocery store. Gone past the beer isle. Stopped. Looked at the beer. Taken a deep breath. Thought about why I don't want to drink, even just that night (health reasons, staying in control), and moved on. Nothing spiritual about it, or self-affirming, just very logical steps.
I've been amazed when it's worked. And the funny thing is, I don't go back once I pass it...
- Your third, ever-struggling herself, nag
Posted by kid_A on August 11, 2001, at 21:20:40
In reply to sar is okay, posted by sar on August 10, 2001, at 16:26:13
sar,
im allready drunk at 10:15, so i cant really tell you to not drink... all i can tell you is to be carefull... i know i will tonight... ill be in the thick of it later on tonight, and i know that ill be knee deep in the lager....just be careful and be safe hon, i dont know what limits are so i can impose any on you, but all i can do is wish you peace and wish you safety, and for a gaurdian star to shine above your head
peace out, sunflower.
Posted by Kingfish on August 12, 2001, at 15:16:34
In reply to Re: sar is okay, posted by kid_A on August 11, 2001, at 21:20:40
> Yeah, and I want to add, that nagging, ultimately, does no good, although I partook in the nagging. My hubby nagged me the other night when I had a glass of wine because I had said I wasn't going to this weekend. Renigged on myself, I guess.
It's absolutely an individual's choice. And I personally don't think everyone has to stop drinking entirely - you can teach yourself moderation, although it seems easier to just cut it out of your life. But that's a whole other thread.
But the drinking and driving thing - that's a wake up call to start looking at things differently, I think.
We all care about you Sar, even though some of us, like me, don't really know you. :)
I'm being very awkward about this. I'll stop. Take care!!!!
- K.
Posted by sar on August 13, 2001, at 13:59:59
In reply to Re: sar is okay » sar, posted by shelliR on August 10, 2001, at 23:40:25
dear shelli,
thanks, i don't even consider it nagging, well maybe in an affectionate way, i'm just glad to get replies and to feel like others understand...
i know that i need to work on more concrete ways of self-control...i'm not putting all my stock into the depakote (which i'm not on yet) but just knowing that the combination of depakote + alcohol will have such a greater effect on the liver might temper my behavior somewhat. i have a BP I acquaintance who has cirrhosis of the liver. he is dying at 23 years old. i think it's the combination of 5 years of strong meds and heavy drinking that did him in.
the combination of prozac and klonopin have helped my social anxiety immeasurably. i find myself acting really affectionate and extraverted, which sometimes makes me nervous because i wonder if i'm being too much! (after having spent so much time reticent and retiring).
my newest pdoc does not want me to take klonopin because he feels it is too addictive. i argued that klonopin has really salvaged/saved my life, and he said that was a sign that i'd already become too dependent on it. i take .5 mg twice daily. he wrote me a 'script for one month's worth more pills, but he too seemed to think that i need to work on more cognitive ways to deal with my anxiety. the thing is, I HAVE. swimming, yoga, deep breathing, CBT, therapy--but without meds, ruminating thoughts ravage my mind, terrible anxiety, shakiness, like a deer caught in headlights.
i want to do therapy again, but my last go-'round has made me very wary. since i'm not insured, i'd have to go to the free counselors, and i just don't dig them as much--their required "goal sheets," anti-drug propaganda, blaming depression on occasional use of illicit drugs--this has been my experience. i'm in the process of getting medical insurance and then will be offered psychtherapy on a sliding-scale rate, but i feel like i'm the big loser in a cakewalk and wonder if *i'm* the problem, if i've only wholly liked 1 psych out of 10 then maybe i'm expecting too much...what do you think?
thanks shelli
sar
Posted by sar on August 13, 2001, at 14:11:39
In reply to Re: sar is okay - » shelliR, posted by Wendy B. on August 11, 2001, at 7:51:35
hello ms wendy,
i know it was a sign and that i was lucky as hell not to have hurt anyone else. now i just get to get sued and/or face jail time/ probation!
i did pass it off as a joke because well because i don't know why. i can't ride the bike drunk because i'm simply not co-ordinated enough to drink and bike at the same time. drinking and driving is much easier. oh, this is just horrible. i'm saying awful things, i know. i've had a few sober nights since the accident, thank god i work 'til midnight sometimes and come home exhausted.
i'm going to try nicorette and the patch next week. i have become concerned about my teeth and skin. been smoking from age 15, no good.
progression. i wash my clothes now. i wear deodorant. sometimes even some makeup. i buy cute clothes. i chew gum. i socialize...and so as the sadness drops away, i hope that the drinking will too. (i know it has nothing to do with hope, it has to do with DOING but i'm a taoist you see, when i officially tried to give up drinking in april i started drinking everyday just because i was no longer "allowed" to)...i have crushes now, i don't feel hollow anymore...i do like my drink very much but it's harder to get to the store now, or a remote location like a large grocery store that i can steal from at 2 am, so the drinking drops by default.
i don't think i'd ever tell you off, wendy, unless yr planning to get all rowdy on me...?! :)
you up for a catfight or somethin?love
sar
Posted by sar on August 13, 2001, at 14:15:33
In reply to to my pal N-N, jr., posted by sar on August 13, 2001, at 14:11:39
*
Posted by sar on August 13, 2001, at 14:22:18
In reply to Re: sar is okay, posted by Kingfish on August 12, 2001, at 15:16:34
dear kingfish,
thank you v. much. i'm glad you understand the temptation of the beer aisle and even gladder that you've got the discipline to pass it! for awhile there i didn't have the discipline to do anything but stuff it in my pockets and walk out.
i appreciate your concern. we may not know each other very much, but we've both been around here long enough to have a feel for each other, and i care about you too girl.
the consistency with which i drank & drove makes me feel a bit like satan.
i found out that alcoholism runs in my family (it seems to run in everyone's fam tho doesn't it?!) so i need to watch it. last night i drank an entire bottle of wine and felt completely sober afterward. but at least i was sitting on the porch the whole time and not transporting myself anywhere, operating heavy machinery etc.
hope you're takin care of yrself babe. i've not known you to be awkward ever--
sar
Posted by sar on August 13, 2001, at 14:30:16
In reply to Re: sar is okay, posted by kid_A on August 11, 2001, at 21:20:40
dear kid_A,
how do you stay careful? stay at home, designated drivers, etc? or are your friends just as chaotic as mine? (no concept of "designated driver")
i think i do have some sort of guardian star, i didn't hurt anyone, kriste, who knows what state i'd be in now if i had...
thank you, kid_A...how was radiohead? and how's the kid_A album? i haven't heard it yet.
the song "karma police" is playing in my head right now--
ah, sunflower...do you like janis joplin? makes me think of my 2 favorite drinking songs, Flower in the Sun and Farewell Song.
hoping you have a guardian star too, don't mix, watch out for that ambien 'cause it can kick yr ass (i popped a klonopin while drinking a tallboy the night of my wreck).
monday afternoon in the dirty south...do you find yeself calming down when the weather cools? (here not 'til late october or so)
keep on keepin on, and be careful all the while,
sar
Posted by kid_A on August 13, 2001, at 18:37:47
In reply to Re: sar is okay » kid_A, posted by sar on August 13, 2001, at 14:30:16
sar sar sar,
my problem is i can't stay at home, i feel like any night i miss out of sheer stoicism is gone forever and i may die and not have lived my life to its fullest... i do put limits to my nights out, a few nights during the week, and then on weekends, i guess you could say i do go out more than i dont...
if by chaotic you mean wanton abandon w/ no regard for safety, most are not as bad as me, but there isnt a designated driver amoungst us... i work at a bar, which is never sane if you are overly fond of the drink, and i am sort of wild there... i have encouragement (for my wildness) which is good or bad depending on how you look at it...
as for myself, i do believe i have a little star shining above me... and it laughed its warmth on me on the way home from radiohead (which was utterly amazing by the way), on the way home i hydroplaned and did 2 360's in the middle of the highway, on comming traffic barely missed me and i powerslid into a ditch... i was so upset, not at almost having been killed, but because one, i had made the mistake of trying to pass a semi truck in the rain (phobia #1), and two that i had let myself hydroplane into a near crash (phobia #2).... everyone in the car and the car itself came out unscathed... maybe im destined to go on to do great things, maybe im here to love someone as they have never been loved... i just feel that i was saved...
im glad that nobody was hurt in your accident, im certainly glad that nobody was hurt in mine...
the kid A album is amazing, as is Amnesiac, its sister album (recorded at the same time), atmospheric and moody like ok computer, but taken more extreme than even ok computer was... i listen to ok computer every time i go to see my pdoc... its kind of a ritual i have...
janis joplin was talented, i can say that, i have never been a big fan though, im thinking of sunflower sutra by allen ginsberg, read it, its amazingly great... its beat writing at its finest, it celebrates the downtrodden...
as for ambien and alcohol, my guardian definitely has kicked my ass into remembering that this is a combination that wont work for cognative memories of the nights events... i on average take about .75 to 1.00mg of xanax a day, generally when i drink though i am pretty crazy, perhaps its due to all the drugs floating around in me at any given time... thankfully the 'rage' period which started when i first began effexor is over... im not a mean drunk anymore... (though i certainly was a bit of a jerk on my ambien night i was told...)
monday evening now in the not so south but southernmost east coast state, ill be going into work tonight at the bar so since my boss isnt in tommorow i probably wont be too carefull about drinking too much... the good thing is that i had the foresight to move into a neighborhood a few blocks from downtown where i could (and have) crawl home to...
i love the cool weather, i hate the heat, the heat and the humidity is opressive its like 5 to 10 more atmospheres just beating on you for all its worth... theres nothing like the sharp crisp air of the colder seasons, with just a hint of chimney smoke in the wind... its a beautiful thing...
stay pure, stay golden, stay guarded
k_A
Posted by Kingfish on August 13, 2001, at 19:17:29
In reply to Re: sar is okay » sar, posted by kid_A on August 13, 2001, at 18:37:47
I, too, am actually a Taoist, Sar.
I drank less in the great City, NY, when I knew I had the option not to, or to..
- K.
Posted by Marie1 on August 14, 2001, at 8:06:43
In reply to Re: sar is okay » shelliR, posted by sar on August 13, 2001, at 13:59:59
I apologise, Sar and Shelli, for butting-in on your personal exchange here, but I'm really infuriated by our mental health insurance system and Sar, I could just scream about the WAY less than adequate options available to you. THIS IS SO WRONG! Sar, from your posts, I see you as very bright (probably gifted), articulate, self perceptive, compassionate - I could go on, but the point I'm trying to make is that you DESERVE to have a more optomistic future as it relates to your mental health care. I'm not naive, I know that life sometimes isn't fair, but that doesn't mean it's ok that you have to settle for inferior help/treatment because you are limited in your ability to pay. I know I've been lucky in that I can afford to pay for treatment by a private psychiatrist who I credit for literally saving my life. I have thought - what if this wasn't available to me? If I couldn't pay to see him - what would have happened? It's not a stretch to say I may not be here now. I hate this inequity! Sar should have every opportunity I had to find competent professionals to help her treat her disease. We really have to make some changes here, and the new parity laws, while they're a start, don't begin to address the needs of people who require mental health care. What can we do, guys? I'm willing and able, but don't know where to start. Shelli? Anyone?
Marie
> dear shelli,
>
> thanks, i don't even consider it nagging, well maybe in an affectionate way, i'm just glad to get replies and to feel like others understand...
>
> i know that i need to work on more concrete ways of self-control...i'm not putting all my stock into the depakote (which i'm not on yet) but just knowing that the combination of depakote + alcohol will have such a greater effect on the liver might temper my behavior somewhat. i have a BP I acquaintance who has cirrhosis of the liver. he is dying at 23 years old. i think it's the combination of 5 years of strong meds and heavy drinking that did him in.
>
> the combination of prozac and klonopin have helped my social anxiety immeasurably. i find myself acting really affectionate and extraverted, which sometimes makes me nervous because i wonder if i'm being too much! (after having spent so much time reticent and retiring).
>
> my newest pdoc does not want me to take klonopin because he feels it is too addictive. i argued that klonopin has really salvaged/saved my life, and he said that was a sign that i'd already become too dependent on it. i take .5 mg twice daily. he wrote me a 'script for one month's worth more pills, but he too seemed to think that i need to work on more cognitive ways to deal with my anxiety. the thing is, I HAVE. swimming, yoga, deep breathing, CBT, therapy--but without meds, ruminating thoughts ravage my mind, terrible anxiety, shakiness, like a deer caught in headlights.
>
> i want to do therapy again, but my last go-'round has made me very wary. since i'm not insured, i'd have to go to the free counselors, and i just don't dig them as much--their required "goal sheets," anti-drug propaganda, blaming depression on occasional use of illicit drugs--this has been my experience. i'm in the process of getting medical insurance and then will be offered psychtherapy on a sliding-scale rate, but i feel like i'm the big loser in a cakewalk and wonder if *i'm* the problem, if i've only wholly liked 1 psych out of 10 then maybe i'm expecting too much...what do you think?
>
> thanks shelli
>
> sar
Posted by sar on August 14, 2001, at 10:14:55
In reply to Re: sar is okay (rant!), posted by Marie1 on August 14, 2001, at 8:06:43
dear marie,
thank you! when i saw the word "rant" in the message title i was afraid you might do a hardcore rant on drunkdriving *which* i deserve, but it's embedded in my brain already, i'm surprised no one really socked it to me (i was waiting for that, kind of...)
our health system is pretty bad, i think. when i went to go see a free pdoc on at a city "crisis center" back in april, their only criteria was get this--that i be actively suicidal. well, praise the lawd, i really did happen to be suicidal, so i got in! but what if i'd been too scared to say so, etc? or what if i'd become suicidal the next day? in addition, they said they could only treat my major depression (root of suicidiality) and not my social anxiety. to give them credit, i did get 2 months' worth free prozac, but i wasn't *really* helped until i was hospitalised (and dx'd with a slew of other things and dx'd klonopin and a plan for depakote).
here is a good thing and a bad thing: in my city, free counseling is backed by religious organizations, a Jewish Center and a Catholic one, and they'll take anyone for free, regardless of yr religion (or lack of it) (which is wonderful) BUT control is relinquished by the patient as to what type of therapy it will be, who their therapist will be...my last free therapist was an intern, the only experience she'd had aside from schooling was "dance therapy" and "bodywork" (not to downgrade those, but--i wanted an experienced scholarly type. no such thing as a free lunch, eh?). so i feel kind of like--good religious folk that they are--one of their main, misguided Most Important Goals is to lay off the weed once a week, pronto! and i'm so baffled by this.
there is also a program here which insures on a sliding scale basis, but get this: they don't cover prozac. MY DRUG OF CHOICE! my savior! Prozac is *classic,* man, it's been around the longest and has had success in so many people. (prozac also happens to be tres expensif)
thanks for your support, Marie. will keep all updated on how the sliding-scale business goes, if the care is satisfactory, etc--
Posted by sar on August 14, 2001, at 10:28:23
In reply to Re: sar is okay » sar, posted by kid_A on August 13, 2001, at 18:37:47
dear kid_A,
working in a bar doesn't encourage you to act like a good little buddha, whaaaaat?
i know, i know, i worked at bars ages 18-20...(before i drank very much at all), saw the ill effects of drinking, which did not prevent me from adopting l'orval syrah as my baby-momma a few years later...
your car accident sounds just awful and lucky (awfully lucky)--careful now...
i read Sunflower Sutra last night, it was quite easy to find online, and was quite touched by it. i've not read much ginnsy except "howl" (which i also like), and i'll have to add Sutra to my list of reaffirming poems (the other 2 are "some people" and "beans and garlic" by C. Bukowski).
shine on you crazy diamond,
sar
Posted by sar on August 14, 2001, at 10:35:24
In reply to Living in a city if possible , posted by Kingfish on August 13, 2001, at 19:17:29
Praise Kingfish, my fellow Taoist!
you're not in the great NYC anymore? i rode through it once on a bus and was amazed, i thought it was so beautiful (but weird, too, with the skyscrapers plastered in Banana Republic ads).
i live in a big city and all my friends and co-workers do is
drink
drink
drinknot nearly as much as me (i drink when i'm with them and when i'm alone), but that's what social activity revolves around. the other city i live in (for college, when i went and when i'll return) is very very liberal and excessive, drug-laden and bars everywhere (then i see the freshly-washed sorority girls jog by with their heart monitors or whatever and feel so guilty--there they are for gatorade and sweet-tarts as i junkily hold my six-pack--)
you've been drinking and smoking a bit lately, Kingfish? what's going on? hope you're managing to keep it under control--
sar
Posted by Kingfish on August 14, 2001, at 11:06:08
In reply to Re: Living in a city if possible » Kingfish, posted by sar on August 14, 2001, at 10:35:24
Oh, I drink, Sar. I've been drinking since 16. Well, I think I took my first drink at 14, a little wine snuck out of the firdge. So don't ever think I "have it together with drinking" or anything.
I've used it to help me with moods all along. And right now, even though meds are helping some, I still drink. But I'm working on it. I actually am exploring smoking again as an alternative. Crazy I know. It was the one thing I never got addicted to, though, and I'm wondering if I smoke at bars when out with friends, and when outside at night pondering things sometimes, if it will curb the desire to drink. Just a thought. Seemed to work last night. But I can still taste it. ;0
I don't think I can, or want to, stop drinking. I want to drink moderately. I have at times, and at times, I haven't drunk at all. So I hope to get to that point. It seems I can make it pretty well, but then have to have a night a week or so, where I drink a lot on the average. I'm sure this makes me an alchy by AA standards. I'm just trying to find a balance for me. But I'm really careful not to drink and drive. Not nagging! ;)
I guess my city comment was that in NYC, you don't drive - you take public transportation or a cab everywhere. That said, I felt like I could drink anytime I wanted to. That gave me a real freedom of sorts, because like you, if I deny myself something, I'll just do it all the more. So I would drink more often, but far less. And noticed that's how others were as well. (Some others).
I plan on going back to the City asap. I love it! Trying to get it together so we can have a leetle, teeny apartment there, and our house in Woodstock. We'll see.
Take care. Keep writing. It's nice to hear from you.
- K.
Posted by kid_A on August 14, 2001, at 15:03:32
In reply to poetry and accidents » kid_A, posted by sar on August 14, 2001, at 10:28:23
> working in a bar doesn't encourage you to act like a good little buddha, whaaaaat?
i spoke too soon, they changed the format of my night... i showed up but i no longer had a job... it wasnt personal (i had actually just started the night a week previous)... and the person who changed it wasnt the person, (a friend) who actually put me in there...
so what did i do? i got so trashed and high that i stumbled to my car and threw up a few times and then passed out next to my car because i was too sick to even drive... i get woken by the parking garage attendant who wont let me drive home so i have to walk home (see, its good im close)... i wind up having to come back the next morning (suprisingly not hung over) to pick up my car...
just another wasted evening all because im too damn sensitive... i think im riding high and i know to be paranoid because things are too good and then i get hit by a low branch on a motorcycle (metaphorically speaking)... im coasting on cool happiness and then one little thing that is very common in the dj biz happens and im sent back down to the dumps...
yay, ill have something distressfull to tell my talk-doc... i wouldnt want to come in too chipper now, would i... that would be making progress...
a disapointed kid...
Posted by Greg A. on August 14, 2001, at 16:03:15
In reply to Re: sar is okay » shelliR, posted by sar on August 13, 2001, at 13:59:59
Hi sar,
Just a couple of comments from reading posts on this thread. Klonopin has been a big help to me in getting anxiety under control. I took (abused) Xanax for a lot of years before i was treated for depression. i managed to get of Xanax totally and stayed off benzo's until i was hospitalized. The AD I was on was not working and I was too stubborn to admit it and get help. They switched ADs at the hospital and gave me Klonopin. Your doc. has a legit concern about addiction and building up a tolerance, however, I have been on 1 mg per day for almost 2 years and it still works. And funny you should mention it, but Prozac is the AD that worked for me too. My pdoc won't prescribe generic versions. She says they don't work.
So talk to the doc and hold out for what works for you.Good Luck
Greg
Posted by Kingfish on August 14, 2001, at 19:21:34
In reply to Re: poetry and accidents » sar, posted by kid_A on August 14, 2001, at 15:03:32
Sorry kid. I would imagine DJ-ing is an extremely stressful bizness, though, for someone with a mood disorder to be in. But then, most folks in a creative biz, probably have a mood disorder right?
Have a good talk with your doc, and just start over. That's what I do.
- K.
Posted by shelliR on August 14, 2001, at 20:51:09
In reply to Re: sar is okay » shelliR, posted by sar on August 13, 2001, at 13:59:59
Hi Sar.
>
> thanks, i don't even consider it nagging, well maybe in an affectionate way,
good, that's how it's meant.
>
> the combination of prozac and klonopin have helped my social anxiety immeasurably. i find myself acting really affectionate >and extraverted, which sometimes makes me nervous because i wonder if i'm being too much! (after having spent so much .time reticent and retiring).I'm sure you'll balance out. Because if you are a true "introvert" in the Jungian sense of the word (Myer-Briggs test) than you will need to pull back sometimes or you will not be tune with yourself. But maybe you do tend toward the extravert side if you have no SA, so then you could go on and on like this. You'll find out, I'm sure. I have an extraverted personality, but am really an intravert, always need to recover after spending a long time with people, or I get panicked at being too far from myself.
>
> my newest pdoc does not want me to take klonopin because he feels it is too addictive. i argued that klonopin has really salvaged/saved my life, and he said that was a sign that i'd already become too dependent on it. i take .5 mg twice daily. he wrote me a 'script for one month's worth more pills, but he too seemed to think that i need to work on more cognitive ways to deal with my anxiety. the thing is, I HAVE. swimming, yoga, deep breathing, CBT, therapy--but without meds, ruminating thoughts ravage my mind, terrible anxiety, shakiness, like a deer caught in headlights.<Well, it doesn't seem like he's really threatening you yet. It's interesting to me that shrinks either don't mind using benzos or they hate it, but it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the needs of their patients. I think it's okay if he's helping you find other ways to control your anxiety, but if he threatens to take away the klonopin, I'd find someone else who will give it to you. If it helps you, it's good. My pdocs always give me klonopin; they never make it an issue.
>
> i want to do therapy again, but my last go-'round has made me very wary. since i'm not insured, i'd have to go to the free counselors, and i just don't dig them as much--their required "goal sheets," anti-drug propaganda, blaming depression on occasional use of illicit drugs--this has been my experience. i'm in the process of getting medical insurance and then will be offered psychtherapy on a sliding-scale rate, but i feel like i'm the big loser in a cakewalk and wonder if *i'm* the problem, if i've only wholly liked 1 psych out of 10 then maybe i'm expecting too much...what do you think?Well, I think people should be really picky about who they choose as a therapist. And probably if I had just picked my therapists at random, I'd really have a hard time. My present therapist was assigned to me years ago when I was in the hospital and I really liked her style, pushy but supportive. So the next time I wanted to change therapists I called her because I already knew she had been very helpful to me inpatient.
Here's the question (you probably already said, but I can't remember). After you drink one glass of alcohol, can you ever just stop. Or once you start, you lose that ability to control the amount?
If you can't control that, then truthfully, I don't think you're going to get very far in therapy. That kind of drinking usually has a genetic component to it, and people who have that basically have one choice, to stop drinking altogether. I've never been to a 12 step group, but they certainly don't sound very appealing to me. At some point I read that there were other types of groups available for alcoholics, but I don't know much about them, or even if they still exist. Is it possible to find another type of group that will help you? Do these "free places" offer groups? Then later down the road think about individual therapy?
BTW, I agree with everything that Marie says about you in her post further down. You've got so much going for you--I don't want the drinking thing to pull you down. And it will, baby girl.
Where do you live; I can't remember?
Take care, be careful.
Shelli
Posted by Wendy B. on August 15, 2001, at 1:54:30
In reply to to my pal N-N, jr., posted by sar on August 13, 2001, at 14:11:39
Sar,
sorry i didn't get to answer you sooner, i was away for a couple of days...> i know it was a sign and that i was lucky as hell not to have hurt anyone else. now i just get to get sued and/or face jail time/ probation!
yeah, that's all!!
> i did pass it off as a joke because well because i don't know why. i can't ride the bike drunk because i'm simply not co-ordinated enough to drink and bike at the same time.ok, i wasn't saying don't joke, i don't know what i was saying except get serious for a minute... i shouldn't talk: i use humor all the time to ward off feeling anything. 'my life as a stand-up comedian.' when i go into therapy sessions like that, my shrink gets a little short with me. because it prevents me from getting down to the basic questions about *feeling*, rather than masking it...
>drinking and driving is much easier. oh, this is just horrible. i'm saying awful things, i know. i've had a few sober nights since the accident, thank god i work 'til midnight sometimes and come home exhausted.
i know what you mean when you say that drinking & driving is easier. the driving part, anyway. please do the deep breathing thing or whatever you can to stay safe and avoid the six-packs.
did you say that you worked in a bar, on another post, that's why it came so easy to drink? funny, but i start working in a winery, v. part-time. i have to pour taste-tests of various wines for customers. my wage is v. low, but who cares? i get 30% off bottles, so long live the light, crisp dry white! i don't drink a lot anymore, so that white may turn into my self-medication of choice, it'll be cheaper than dope with the discount.
> i'm going to try nicorette and the patch next week. i have become concerned about my teeth and skin. been smoking from age 15, no good.
so many things at once... try fixing just one thing at a time, the urge is to get all better all at once, but it's too much of a shock on your system, babe. plz sloooowwww dooowwwwnnnn.speaking of fixing things, i'm sorry about the insurance shit, it's a crime. you have to have a therapist whom you actively choose. frankly, i'll go to any qualified internist or family medicine practice, but it's only natural that i want to take part in choosing the individual whom i will be seeing and spilling my guts out to once a week until doomsday...
the next rant is the klonopin thing... what a ridiculous set of steps they're making you dance to in order to get it. if it is helping you, then it's a hit! if the idiot doesn't get it (try printing out some of the best threads on psy-babble regarding klonopin being safe, and take them to your doc), then it's off to another shrink... hopefully without them calling your behavior 'drug-seeking.'
> progression. i wash my clothes now. i wear deodorant. sometimes even some makeup. i buy cute clothes. i chew gum. i socialize...and so as the sadness drops away, i hope that the drinking will too.i hope so too... although it's probably not as simple as getting un-depressed. the other stuff is *very* good, i mean it. buying cute clothes is good for the ego. i've been showing off my post-depressed body, post-breakup body, this summer. sounds stupid, but for $7 i can get all the polyester i want at the local target (pronounced "tar-jhay"). seriously, i was in shopping heaven. that's how much better i am, too, i can actually enjoy simple shit like that...
(i know it has nothing to do with hope, it has to do with DOING but i'm a taoist you see, when i officially tried to give up drinking in april i started drinking everyday just because i was no longer "allowed" to)...c'mon, the bhodisatva doesn't need to get high, does she? listen to your true buddha-nature, breathe from deep inside the belly,
etc.
etc.
>i have crushes now, i don't feel hollow anymore..
crushes are important, we need fantasy objects, we're not yet ready for prime time. my latest crush is my pharmacist, v. cute guy, especially when he hasn't shaved for a couple of days, he's probably a little younger than me, but so much the better... he worked a miracle with my neurontin scrip last week, i'll do anything for my mood-stabilizers, baby, and i do mean *any*thing. oh pharmacist dude!
should i ask him out for coffee? (or a pain-killer?)
>i do like my drink very much but it's harder to get to the store now, or a remote location like a large grocery store that i can steal from at 2 am, so the drinking drops by default.
another nagging entreaty: will you plz stop stealing beer! shit, girl, after the car accident, and the fines or probation or whatever, you cannot afford to go on doing that! cease and desist...
> i don't think i'd ever tell you off, wendy, unless yr planning to get all rowdy on me...?! :)you mean you don't think i *could* get rowdy? i'm a BP I / taurus - passion is slow and seething, and then it's all over the place, so look out! babe...
> you up for a catfight or somethin?
oh no... my spiritual guide sez: catfights are for the old me. hours-long, long-distance posting on psychobabble is about the only thing my buddha-nature requires of me at this time...
i do care about you, as do all the others: kid_a, shelli, kingfish, marie, greg, etc...
xox, your friend,
wendy
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