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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Phil on July 18, 2001, at 6:41:49
In reply to Re: Anyone have any experience w/ this group?, posted by calla on July 18, 2001, at 0:59:14
calla,
Thanks for the reply. I was thinking that at the very least, it would be another way to get myself out of my apt.
I'll let you know how it goes.Phil
Posted by Lorraine on July 20, 2001, at 23:06:29
In reply to Re: Anyone have any experience w/ this group?, posted by Phil on July 18, 2001, at 6:41:49
Phil: Do let us know. I think I have their book and it kind of scared me. But they do meet locally here and I could use some support so I'll be interested in your experiences.
Posted by Phil on July 21, 2001, at 22:38:23
In reply to Re: Anyone have any experience w/ this group? » Phil , posted by Lorraine on July 20, 2001, at 23:06:29
> Phil: Do let us know. I think I have their book and it kind of scared me. But they do meet locally here and I could use some support so I'll be interested in your experiences.
I'll let you know. I'm kinda apprehensive. I used to go to Al-Anon and others but had never heard of Recovery Inc.
Do you remember what scared you about the book?
Posted by Lorraine on July 22, 2001, at 0:00:30
In reply to Re: Lorraine, posted by Phil on July 21, 2001, at 22:38:23
> > Phil: Do let us know. I think I have their book and it kind of scared me. But they do meet locally here and I could use some support so I'll be interested in your experiences.
>
> I'll let you know. I'm kinda apprehensive. I used to go to Al-Anon and others but had never heard of Recovery Inc.
> Do you remember what scared you about the book?Yeah, I do. It says things like "Such 'experienced sufferers' have made the rounds of physicians and clinics...They know that some or most of the past therapies had a transient palliative effect. The palpitations were milder after a reassuring talk; the dizziness yeilded to a sedative. Hence, they treasure the 'pep-talk' or the prescription. In order to secure these elusive aids, they must complain; they must convince the professional that they 'really' suffer, that their pains are not imaginary, that they can positively 'not stand' their fatigue....Complaining, then, becomes a vital part of their daily rutine. In the course of years, they develop the consummate art of the 'expert complainer'. What these long-term patients crave is a sympathetic ear which, after years of griping, they can no longer secure from their relatives and friends. They delight in a lengthy discussion of their fears and frustrations....The 'chronicity' of this group has litter to do with the nature of the symptoms, with diagnosis or etiology; it is self-appointed defeatism". p.24 of Mental Health Through Will-Training by Abraham A. Low, M.D., founder of Recovery, Inc.
Course this was written in 1950. Times were different and Recovery, Inc. was established as a self-help group. Over the course of the last 50 years, they may have established some pretty effective self help techniques and come into the new century with the view that mental illness is a medical problem requiring treatment as well as individual motivation.
Posted by Shar on July 22, 2001, at 9:43:33
In reply to Re: Lorraine » Phil , posted by Lorraine on July 22, 2001, at 0:00:30
Phil,
Hmmmmm,
After reading Lorraine's post about chronic complainers....you sure you still want to go? Guess I feel concerned about you getting a lot of condescending "get over it" talk.I know they must use the illegal phrase "pity pot" in their meetings. If you do go---keep your expectations of support really low, ok? Then you won't get disappointed.
take care,
Shar
> > > Phil: Do let us know. I think I have their book and it kind of scared me. But they do meet locally here and I could use some support so I'll be interested in your experiences.
> >
> > I'll let you know. I'm kinda apprehensive. I used to go to Al-Anon and others but had never heard of Recovery Inc.
> > Do you remember what scared you about the book?
>
> Yeah, I do. It says things like "Such 'experienced sufferers' have made the rounds of physicians and clinics...They know that some or most of the past therapies had a transient palliative effect. The palpitations were milder after a reassuring talk; the dizziness yeilded to a sedative. Hence, they treasure the 'pep-talk' or the prescription. In order to secure these elusive aids, they must complain; they must convince the professional that they 'really' suffer, that their pains are not imaginary, that they can positively 'not stand' their fatigue....Complaining, then, becomes a vital part of their daily rutine. In the course of years, they develop the consummate art of the 'expert complainer'. What these long-term patients crave is a sympathetic ear which, after years of griping, they can no longer secure from their relatives and friends. They delight in a lengthy discussion of their fears and frustrations....The 'chronicity' of this group has litter to do with the nature of the symptoms, with diagnosis or etiology; it is self-appointed defeatism". p.24 of Mental Health Through Will-Training by Abraham A. Low, M.D., founder of Recovery, Inc.
>
> Course this was written in 1950. Times were different and Recovery, Inc. was established as a self-help group. Over the course of the last 50 years, they may have established some pretty effective self help techniques and come into the new century with the view that mental illness is a medical problem requiring treatment as well as individual motivation.
Posted by Lorraine on July 22, 2001, at 10:14:34
In reply to Phil: Get off the pity pot and go to a meeting!, posted by Shar on July 22, 2001, at 9:43:33
Well, I've been looking for a support group also.
Here are some of the groups that I have found that run support groups:NAMI
NDMDA
Emotions Anonymous
Recovery Inc.
Programs associated with Universities eg UCLAI'm thinking that I may go to an Emotions Anonymous meeting first. I have friends who are in AA, who have had great success with their program. I was sort of surprised with all of these groups, you would think a city like Los Angeles would be overflowing with meetings and so forth. Not so. NAMI and Recovery have the most meetings. If I really get my act together, I'll go to a meeting of each organization. Given the number of meetings Recovery has, I just think it's unlikely that the views espoused in their old book are adhered to anymore. Still, they do sell the book as representative of their program.
Posted by Phil on July 22, 2001, at 10:25:31
In reply to Re: Lorraine » Phil , posted by Lorraine on July 22, 2001, at 0:00:30
Damn!!
Posted by Phil on July 22, 2001, at 10:30:25
In reply to Phil: Get off the pity pot and go to a meeting!, posted by Shar on July 22, 2001, at 9:43:33
Shar, I'll try to keep an open mind but if they piss me off I'm outta there. Only my family, my psychiatrist, my psychologist, my group, and my neighbors and coworkers can piss me off. And traffic.
Phil
Posted by Phil on July 22, 2001, at 10:36:20
In reply to Re: Support Groups, posted by Lorraine on July 22, 2001, at 10:14:34
Good point. I would think that E.A. would be a good place to start. If Recovery Inc, don't like the name, sucks, guess I'll keep poking around.
I certainly prefer nice crazy people over rude crazy people! :-)
Posted by calla on July 22, 2001, at 12:11:05
In reply to Phil: Get off the pity pot and go to a meeting!, posted by Shar on July 22, 2001, at 9:43:33
The people at the Recovery, Inc. meeting I went to would not have told anyone to "get off the pity pot." That's a phrase I've heard used in 12 step circles, not Recovery. The book does sound that way though, and is strange in other ways—even the style it's written in.
Also, some of the people attending mentioned in conversation before the meeting that they were on meds. I didn't get the sense that anyone was anti-med. Nothing like that is discussed as part of the formal meeting, which is pretty structured.
In the meeting, each person who wanted to talked about an experience they had that week, how they reacted to it and how they were able to keep their reaction from turning into (for example) a full blow panic attack or deepening their depression, etc., using the Recovery Inc. techniques.
These techniques are about being aware of thoughts and feelings as they happen. Participants discuss their problems in the group's lingo, which as I said before is also strange. It would seem cult-like except they aren't trying to convince anyone of anything or get money from them so I don't sense any underlying nefarious purpose.
Any comments other participants made were supportive, positive, and helpful. No one had to talk if they didn't want to.
The reason I think Recovery, Inc. techniques might be helpful is that (at least in theory) they give those who practice them more control of their reactions to things that happen in daily life. If you have ever used the daily mood log in Dr. David Burn's book Feeling Good, where you list negative thoughts and come up with less distorted, more rational and less negative ones you'll have a sense of how this might work, except that it also provides group support.
That being said, I only went to one meeting so Recovery, Inc. might be worse or better overall than the impression I got of it. One thing I'm sure of is that they need an image overhaul.
> Phil,
> Hmmmmm,
> After reading Lorraine's post about chronic complainers....you sure you still want to go? Guess I feel concerned about you getting a lot of condescending "get over it" talk.
>
> I know they must use the illegal phrase "pity pot" in their meetings. If you do go---keep your expectations of support really low, ok? Then you won't get disappointed.
>
> take care,
> Shar
>
>
>
>
> > > > Phil: Do let us know. I think I have their book and it kind of scared me. But they do meet locally here and I could use some support so I'll be interested in your experiences.
> > >
> > > I'll let you know. I'm kinda apprehensive. I used to go to Al-Anon and others but had never heard of Recovery Inc.
> > > Do you remember what scared you about the book?
> >
> > Yeah, I do. It says things like "Such 'experienced sufferers' have made the rounds of physicians and clinics...They know that some or most of the past therapies had a transient palliative effect. The palpitations were milder after a reassuring talk; the dizziness yeilded to a sedative. Hence, they treasure the 'pep-talk' or the prescription. In order to secure these elusive aids, they must complain; they must convince the professional that they 'really' suffer, that their pains are not imaginary, that they can positively 'not stand' their fatigue....Complaining, then, becomes a vital part of their daily rutine. In the course of years, they develop the consummate art of the 'expert complainer'. What these long-term patients crave is a sympathetic ear which, after years of griping, they can no longer secure from their relatives and friends. They delight in a lengthy discussion of their fears and frustrations....The 'chronicity' of this group has litter to do with the nature of the symptoms, with diagnosis or etiology; it is self-appointed defeatism". p.24 of Mental Health Through Will-Training by Abraham A. Low, M.D., founder of Recovery, Inc.
> >
> > Course this was written in 1950. Times were different and Recovery, Inc. was established as a self-help group. Over the course of the last 50 years, they may have established some pretty effective self help techniques and come into the new century with the view that mental illness is a medical problem requiring treatment as well as individual motivation.
Posted by Lorraine on July 22, 2001, at 14:45:43
In reply to Re: Phil: Get off the pity pot and go to a meeting!, posted by calla on July 22, 2001, at 12:11:05
You know what, Calla? I think you are right--that Recovery Inc. is cognitive therapy associated in its approach. I just wish they'd quit selling the book. It stinks.
Posted by Lorraine on July 22, 2001, at 14:48:35
In reply to Re: Support Groups, posted by Phil on July 22, 2001, at 10:36:20
> Good point. I would think that E.A. would be a good place to start. If Recovery Inc, don't like the name, sucks, guess I'll keep poking around.
> I certainly prefer nice crazy people over rude crazy people! :-)No, I think you should try Recovery Inc. I probably will. I contacted Depression Anonymous and believe it or not they have no groups in Los Angeles. I was invited to start one. Maybe I will (but where would I find the energy?) Anyway, NAMI is also a good way to go probably. Or NDMDA. Why don't you just go and report back. I will pick a meeting to go to this week and report back as well. Doesn't that sound fair? Deal?
Posted by Phil on July 22, 2001, at 15:37:33
In reply to Re: Support Groups » Phil , posted by Lorraine on July 22, 2001, at 14:48:35
Hey, deal!
On Celexa's website they did mention Recovery Inc and other groups. We shall see.
Phil
Posted by Lorraine on July 23, 2001, at 21:44:07
In reply to Re: Support Groups~Lorraine, posted by Phil on July 22, 2001, at 15:37:33
> Hey, deal!
>
> On Celexa's website they did mention Recovery Inc and other groups. We shall see.
>
So, Phil, the next step is to find out the times of the meetings and make a commitment to go to one. DMDA has meetings in my neck of the woods on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I just need to select on (plus I'm hoping another psychobabbler who lives nearby will go with me). When are your meetings?
Posted by Phil on July 24, 2001, at 20:29:22
In reply to Re: Support Groups~Lorraine » Phil , posted by Lorraine on July 23, 2001, at 21:44:07
Thursday night at 7:30. I'm not sure how long the meetings last.
Posted by Lorraine on July 25, 2001, at 0:57:51
In reply to Re: Support Groups~Lorraine, posted by Phil on July 24, 2001, at 20:29:22
Well, I went to a DMDA meeting tonight (had to beat you to the punch!) It was loosely moderated. Everyone introduced themselves, said what their diagnosis was, whether they were med compliant, whether they were seeing a psychiatrist, psychologist or both, how they were feeling this evening and whether they had any topics they wanted to discuss that evening. Several people shared things that they were struggling with and the group was very non-judgmental. There was no pressure to contribute and I thought people were respectful in how they commented on other people's problems. It was not like group therapy--there was not a lot of crying or sharing of deep feelings. I generally just got the sense that this was a group of people with a chronic illness trying to deal with the issues associated with it.
I'm still taking it in to tell you the truth. I have a friend who belongs to AA and I know at first she felt like she had little in common with the groups she went to. I felt a bit like that, but I'm not sure that it isn't just resistence on my part. My plan is to attend several other meetings and see what I think at the end of it all.
I actually went to this meeting with another poster on this board--Neal (or rather I met him at the meeting as we had agreed). That was a cool thing to do and it was nice to actually meet another psychobabbler in person.
Posted by Lorraine on July 26, 2001, at 10:22:19
In reply to Re: Support Groups » Phil , posted by Lorraine on July 25, 2001, at 0:57:51
Wanted to bring this to the top, as a reminder to Phil and me to keep the search alive.
> Well, I went to a DMDA meeting tonight (had to beat you to the punch!) It was loosely moderated. Everyone introduced themselves, said what their diagnosis was, whether they were med compliant, whether they were seeing a psychiatrist, psychologist or both, how they were feeling this evening and whether they had any topics they wanted to discuss that evening. Several people shared things that they were struggling with and the group was very non-judgmental. There was no pressure to contribute and I thought people were respectful in how they commented on other people's problems. It was not like group therapy--there was not a lot of crying or sharing of deep feelings. I generally just got the sense that this was a group of people with a chronic illness trying to deal with the issues associated with it.
>
> I'm still taking it in to tell you the truth. I have a friend who belongs to AA and I know at first she felt like she had little in common with the groups she went to. I felt a bit like that, but I'm not sure that it isn't just resistence on my part. My plan is to attend several other meetings and see what I think at the end of it all.
>
> I actually went to this meeting with another poster on this board--Neal (or rather I met him at the meeting as we had agreed). That was a cool thing to do and it was nice to actually meet another psychobabbler in person.
Posted by Phil on July 26, 2001, at 20:44:21
In reply to Re: Support Groups, posted by Lorraine on July 26, 2001, at 10:22:19
Lorraine,
Someone started a recovery group in Austin and nobody came. I arrived at the church, found the admin. building, found room 204, opened the door-nobody home! Waited several minutes...whole building empty. Came home.
Doesn't bode well for Recovery Inc. Guess I'll buy the book.
Pretty sure I won't give it another shot.
Posted by Lorraine on July 27, 2001, at 12:15:09
In reply to Re: Support Groups, posted by Phil on July 26, 2001, at 20:44:21
Phil: Please do NOT buy the book. It's awful. Austin, eh? I get out that way about once a year. Have you looked into whether Austin has any of the following groups:
Emotions Anonymous
Depression Anonymous
DMDA
NAMIThese would be worth a shot. I won't be in Austin until Christmas timeish. (Usually after Christmas and before New Years.) But when I go--it's to visit my in laws--I am usually going nuts so would love to go to a support group. That gives me an idea--I'll look into them. It would sure beat sitting on my SIL's couch having her give me the "snap out of it" look.
Posted by Gracie2 on July 31, 2001, at 5:01:38
In reply to Anyone have any experience w/ this group?, posted by Phil on July 17, 2001, at 7:15:13
Phil,
I will bookmark this place and consider a meeting, or even going to a few meetings at several locations in this area. I was amused to find out that one meeting location is in a ritzy part of town at the most with-it, place-to-be-seen high-fashion mall, known for ladies who do lunch and compare the prices of their designer dresses over $5.00 glasses of tea. This should be amusing.
=Gracie
Posted by Lorraine on August 1, 2001, at 10:54:26
In reply to Re: Support Groups, posted by Phil on July 26, 2001, at 20:44:21
> > > Doesn't bode well for Recovery Inc. Guess I'll buy the book.
> Pretty sure I won't give it another shot.Phil: I hope you give another support group a shot. There must be plenty in Austin and I'd love to read your reviews. Come on, we got an investigation going here!
Posted by Lorraine on August 3, 2001, at 13:05:33
In reply to Re: Support Groups » Phil , posted by Lorraine on August 1, 2001, at 10:54:26
I went to a Recovery Inc meeting yesterday. The group basis its approach on a 1952 text by Abraham A. Low entitled "Mental Health Through Will-Training". Although I was put off by the text on first reading (I found it patronizing), I thought the group was worth while. It's basic approach is cognitive therapy oriented. The meetings are highly structured and steeped in a lingo that takes some getting used to. For instance, depression is called "low tones". New comers are asked to attend a few meetings before participating actively in the group.
The general structure of the meetings is as follows: a) a chapter of Low's text is read, b) the participants offer examples from their lives (more on this later), c) there is a Q&A sessions and d) there is an open discussion.
The participant examples follow another highly structured format: a) the participants describe an incident where they got "worked up", b) they indicate the physical symptoms of their distress (e.g. racing pulse or thoughts, sweaty palms, tears), c) they spot particular behavior patterns outlined in Low's text (like "fearful temper" or "going for the symbolic victory") and identify how they controlled them, d) they describe how they would have responded before their recovery training.
In listening to the examples given in the group (there were only 3 other people in my group), it was clear that this was a good approach to cognitive therapy and I could see where it would apply to my life. I intend to go back and my make it part of my regular routine to go to a meeting once a week. There are "tons" of meetings in Los Angeles and I think throughout the U.S. Because the format is the same, you can drop in on any meeting which is convenient if you are out of town.
I wanted to address the issue of the book, which I found fairly offensive initially. The section that I read at the meeting was useful. At the end of the meeting, I brought up my reaction to the book and suggested that it needed to be updated. I think they were really taken aback by this suggestion. Abraham Low is revered in this group (and perhaps he should be--his approach is solid and has survived 70 years of practice). They told me that Abraham Low was himself mentally ill so although some of the text seems patronizing it really isn't. My sense is that you just have to be able to see past some of the archaic notions and language and grab the concepts from the text that are useful.
I recommend this group to anyone looking to work on thought related issues.
Posted by Phil on August 4, 2001, at 12:46:29
In reply to Re: Report on Recovery, Inc. Meeting I Attended, posted by Lorraine on August 3, 2001, at 13:05:33
Lorraine, Sorry I haven't posted...had a password problem..duh.
I went to Recovery Inc Thursday night and will probably keep going.
Your description is right on the money.Thanks,
Phil
Posted by shelliR on August 4, 2001, at 13:00:40
In reply to Re: Report on Recovery, Inc. Meeting I Attended, posted by Lorraine on August 3, 2001, at 13:05:33
>
> I recommend this group to anyone looking to work on thought related issues.Lorraine. Great report. Concise, informative, and very well organized. If I ever need a scout, you're the one I'll call first.
(and I'm glad you found a good group for yourself).Shelli
Posted by Lorraine on August 4, 2001, at 22:15:20
In reply to Lorraine, posted by Phil on August 4, 2001, at 12:46:29
> Lorraine, Sorry I haven't posted...had a password problem..duh.
> I went to Recovery Inc Thursday night and will probably keep going.
> Your description is right on the money.
>
> Thanks,
> PhilI'm glad you went and I'm glad you got something out of it. When I go to Austin near Christmas I think I will drop in on the Austin group. The neat thing about Recovery Inc is they are everywhere.
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