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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by paula on July 20, 2001, at 13:31:52
Hi All,
Who are your favorite current poets? I've spent most of my time lately reading medieval and renaissance poetry, so I'm curious about some more, uh, modern folks. Off the top of my head, I'd nominate Amy Lowell and James Agee. Admittedly, neither even comes close to being "current." I love the visual quality of Lowell's work. I've only read Agee's _A Death in the Family_. Composer Samuel Barber used parts of the Preface--which is prosodic poetry, really--as the text for his work "Knoxville: Summer of 1915." (Just to connect this back up with depression, "Knoxville" is a richly, beautifully nostalgic piece, but the end has always had a certain resonance for me on the existential front. Anyone know this work?)
Anna Laura, I'm especially curious about current Italian poets. Any favorites? I need to expand my repetoire beyond the '500. :)
Procrastinating constructively....
Paula
Posted by kid_A on July 20, 2001, at 15:02:57
In reply to favorite poets?, posted by paula on July 20, 2001, at 13:31:52
I'm not sure I know of any 'current' poets, though the ones I like most are (mostly), I think, still alive... But dead or alive, the ones I most enjoy would be:John Giorno
Allen Ginsberg
Gregory Corso
Diane Diprima
Anne Waldman
Keneth Rexroth
William Blake
Gary Snyder...im a big fan of beat poetry, being of especial attraction to the afflicted because of its main focus on the idea of being downtrodden, of being litterally beat down... One of the best poems that effectively shows this is Ginsberg's "Howl", a poem that many other poets (inclusive of Diane Diprima below, who said it inspired her to become a poet) have said to have been a major influence on their writing...
Anyone looking for a good introduction to beat, and a great compendium of beat writing cant go wrong with "The Portable Beat Reader" ... excellent 8 thumbs up....
Here's a good example by Diane Diprima
"No Problem Party Poem"first glass broken on patio no problem
forgotten sour cream for vegetable no problem
Lewis MacAdam's tough lower jaw no problem
cops arriving to watch bellydancer no problem
plastic bags of melted ice no problem
wine on antique tablecloth no problem
scratchy stereo no problem
neighbor's dog no problem
interviewer from Berkeley Barb no problem
absence of more beer no problem
too little dope no problem
leering Naropans no problem
cigarette butts on the altars no problem
Marilyn vomiting in planter box no problem
Phoebe renouncing love no problem
Lewis renouncing Phoebe no problem
hungry ghosts no problem
absence of children no problem
heat no problem
dark no problem
arnica scattered in nylon rug no problem
ashes in bowl of bleached bone and Juniper berries no problem
lost Satie tape no problem
loss of temper no problem
arrogance no problem
boxes of empty beer cans & wine bottles no problem
thousands of styrofoam cups no problem
Gregory Corso no problem
Allen Ginsberg no problem
Diane di Prima no problem
Anne Waldman's veins no problem
Dick Gallup's birthday no problem
Joanne Kyger's peyote & rum no problem wine no problem
coca-cola no problem
getting it on in the wet grass no problem
running out of toilet paper no problem
decimation of pennyroyal no problem
destruction of hair clasp no problem
paranoia no problem
claustrophobia no problem
growing up on Brooklyn streets no problem
growing up in Tibet no problem
growing up in Chicano Texas no problem
bellydancing certainly no problem
figuring it all out no problem
giving it all up no problem
giving it all away no problem
devouring everything in sight no problemwhat else in Allen's refrigerator?
what else in Anne's cupboard?
what do you know that you
haven't told me yet?
No problem. No problem. No problem.staying another day no problem
getting out of town no problem
telling the truth, almost no problem
easy to stay awake
easy to go to sleep
easy to sing the blues
easy to chant sutras
what's all the fuss about?it decomposes - no problem
we pack it in boxes - no problem
we swallow it with water, lock it in the trunk,
make a quick getaway. NO PROBLEM.
Posted by Roo on July 20, 2001, at 16:23:04
In reply to Re: favorite poets? » paula, posted by kid_A on July 20, 2001, at 15:02:57
I like Marge Piercy a lot.
Posted by paula on July 21, 2001, at 7:38:12
In reply to Re: favorite poets? » paula, posted by kid_A on July 20, 2001, at 15:02:57
Kid_A:
Thanks so much for your post. You've inspired me, at long last, to check into the beats. Funny, even after 3 years living in Boulder, CO I've never followed through with checking them out. Love "No Problem Party Poem;" it's the most cheery statement of nihilism I've seen!
I look forward to looking into all of those lively--if not "live"--poets!
BTW--is "Kid_A" a variation on "Kiddo?"
Paula
Posted by paula on July 21, 2001, at 7:40:03
In reply to Re: favorite poets?, posted by Roo on July 20, 2001, at 16:23:04
> I like Marge Piercy a lot.
Thanks, Roo. I'll check her out!
Paula
Posted by kid_A on July 21, 2001, at 17:08:09
In reply to Re: favorite poets? » kid_A, posted by paula on July 21, 2001, at 7:38:12
> BTW--is "Kid_A" a variation on "Kiddo?"
KID A is the name of Radiohead's 4th album, and also possibly a reference to a set of trading cards about psychoanalyst Jacques Lacan, called "The Adventures of Kid A in Alphabet Land"... for a look at this truly bizzare set of cards check out:
http://www.freedonia.com/~carl/kida/kida_index.html
Are you a writer as well!? I can only guess... Many people who have a love for poetry also are writers... Ive written quite a bit, and I've been working on getting ideas lately for a short story collection...
-pAx-
Posted by Anna Laura on July 22, 2001, at 6:50:57
In reply to favorite poets?, posted by paula on July 20, 2001, at 13:31:52
> Anna Laura, I'm especially curious about current Italian poets. Any favorites? I need to expand my repetoire beyond the '500. :)
> Procrastinating constructively....
> PaulaHi Paula,
A think Eugenio Montale is a milestone in italian contemporary poetry.
Ungaretti, Quasimodo,Marinetti are important also. D' Annunzio is quite prominent also but i personally don't like it too much (too much decadent).
A excellent but hard to decipher poet is Edoardo Sanguineti (still alive, lives in the city where i live). Pierpaolo Pasolini is good also.
Many contemporary novel writers are poets: among them stands out Nanni Balestrini, novelist and political activist.
He is the author of "The Invisibles", and "We want it all", novels written in a experimental manner (something close to Joyce stream of counsciousness).
Another one is Franco Fortini (author of the essay "Extrema Ratio").
My favourites are Emily Dickinson, Dylan Thomas, Ezra Pound, Arthur Rimbaud and the Beat Generation poets.Good Morning - Midnight -
I'm coming Home -
Day - got tired of me -
How could I - of him?Sunshine was a sweet place -
I liked to stay -
But Morn - did' nt want me - now -
So - Goodnight - Day!I can look - cant I -
When the East is red?
The Hills - have a way - then -
That puts the Heart - abroad -You - are not so fair - Midnight -
I chose - Day -
But - please take a little Girl -
He turned away!Emily Dickinson (1862)
Posted by Cam W. on July 22, 2001, at 11:13:02
In reply to Re: favorite poets? » paula, posted by kid_A on July 20, 2001, at 15:02:57
Kid - Dude, I knew there was something I liked about you. Beat poetry is great. Ginsberg's "Kaddish" is cool when you realize he is dealing with his own mortality through his mother's death, while high on morphine (I believe). Much of beat poetry was written in altered states, but, because of this, I think that some of it reaches a little deeper into the primitive parts of our brains; adding another piece to the puzzle we call life.
BTW - I am sure that you have read Kerouac' "On the Road", but have you read "Off the Road" by Carolyn Cassady (Neil's long suffering wife). Like Rock Scully's scathing tome "Living with the Dead", "Off the Road" tears off the glamour and mystique of the original Beats and shows the all too real inbetween times.
I believe that you would have to special order "Off the Road". I know my wife ordered it from the publisher for my birthday a few years back and it cost her a small fortune (relatively).
One of Ginsberg's shorter poems that I have always liked is "To Lindsay". To me, it deals with those flashes of the past one gets when doing something by rote (eg. driving to work or on a highway).
To Lindsay
Vachel, the stars are out
dusk has fallen on the Colorado road
a car crawls slowly across the plain
in the dim light the radio blares its jazz
the heartbroken salesman lights another cigarette
In another city 27 years ago
I see your shadow on the wall
you're sitting in your suspenders on the bed
the shadow hand lifts up a Lysol bottle to your head
your shade falls over the floorAllen Ginsberg - 1958
Of course, this must be read with Ginsberg's excitely-infectious delivery, for full effect.
Thanks Kid - Cam
Posted by NikkiT2 on July 22, 2001, at 15:34:02
In reply to Re: favorite poets? » kid_A, posted by Cam W. on July 22, 2001, at 11:13:02
I have always hated poetry... Then one night, late on tv, there was Ginsberg reading his own poetry, and isnging one of them... it was amazing and I so wished I'd videoed it..
I still find most poetry rushes staight over my head, but theres soomething about beat poetry I adore....
nikki xx
> Kid - Dude, I knew there was something I liked about you. Beat poetry is great. Ginsberg's "Kaddish" is cool when you realize he is dealing with his own mortality through his mother's death, while high on morphine (I believe). Much of beat poetry was written in altered states, but, because of this, I think that some of it reaches a little deeper into the primitive parts of our brains; adding another piece to the puzzle we call life.
>
> BTW - I am sure that you have read Kerouac' "On the Road", but have you read "Off the Road" by Carolyn Cassady (Neil's long suffering wife). Like Rock Scully's scathing tome "Living with the Dead", "Off the Road" tears off the glamour and mystique of the original Beats and shows the all too real inbetween times.
>
> I believe that you would have to special order "Off the Road". I know my wife ordered it from the publisher for my birthday a few years back and it cost her a small fortune (relatively).
>
> One of Ginsberg's shorter poems that I have always liked is "To Lindsay". To me, it deals with those flashes of the past one gets when doing something by rote (eg. driving to work or on a highway).
>
> To Lindsay
>
> Vachel, the stars are out
> dusk has fallen on the Colorado road
> a car crawls slowly across the plain
> in the dim light the radio blares its jazz
> the heartbroken salesman lights another cigarette
> In another city 27 years ago
> I see your shadow on the wall
> you're sitting in your suspenders on the bed
> the shadow hand lifts up a Lysol bottle to your head
> your shade falls over the floor
>
> Allen Ginsberg - 1958
>
> Of course, this must be read with Ginsberg's excitely-infectious delivery, for full effect.
>
> Thanks Kid - Cam
Posted by kid_A on July 22, 2001, at 20:32:19
In reply to Re: favorite poets? » kid_A, posted by Cam W. on July 22, 2001, at 11:13:02
> Kid - Dude, I knew there was something I liked about you. Beat poetry is great. Ginsberg's "Kaddish" is cool when you realize he is dealing with his own mortality through his mother's death, while high on morphine (I believe).
I think it might have been methedrine, but I'm not sure my self... I know it was something... Its a great poem as well, I love poems like Kaddish, long and sprawling, where you can feel the catharsis taking place in the writer, how as they write, with each line they are excorsising their own ghosts...
Believe it or not I have not read much Kerouac, when I was younger I was affected by that dreadfull idea of -not- liking something because it was overtly popular... Kerouac being the most upfront beat reference I never let myself get into it, and surely missed out on some great writing... If I do pick up a book by him, it will probably be Dharma Bums, just to be different I guess... I never grow up...
'Off the Road' sounds very very interesting though, I'll have to look for it... I've been trying to find older Albums or writing of John Girorno (the sleeper in Andy Warhol's move 'Sleep', founder of Dial-A-Poem, Giorno Poetry System, friend to William S. Bouroughs, poet etc etc)... From his 70's period... very difficult... He's a bit graffic, a shocker, at times, sort of a verbal equivalent to someone like Robert Maplethorp... He is never really listed w/ the other beat writers but he was a contemporary to many of them...
I can only speak for myself, and what I have witnessed, but what is the connection between creativity depression and literature... Do we empathize? Do 'happy' people just not have the time for these things in their lives...? Is it better to be dumb and happy, or smart and sad... And are happy people really happy, or do they just think they are happy....
SALUTATIONO Generation of the thoroughly smug
and thoroughly uncomfortable,
I have seen fishermen picknicking in the sun,
I have seen them with untidy families,
I have seen their smiles full of teeth
and heard ungainly laughter.
And I am happier than you are,
And they were happier than I am;
And the fish swim in the lake
and do not even own clothing.-Ezra Pound
Posted by Cam W. on July 23, 2001, at 1:07:25
In reply to Re: favorite poets? » Cam W., posted by kid_A on July 22, 2001, at 20:32:19
Kid - I am not really sure that I know any truly "happy" people. Everyone wears their mask to hide their piles of shit, even in front of those who are closest to them. Some corporate dweebs decide what we will wear, eat, drink, screw, drive, etc. Products are no longer sold, only image. We are told that if we "buy" into that image we will be happy. We are just fooling ourselves.
...get off my back ya business suit,
I'll pay no tax to your recruits.
If you take me on, I'm gonna lose
I'm just a son-of-a-bitch to the core...
-Hardcore Logo...like a big screen kiss,
it's so deep it's meaningless...
-Tragically HipHappiness, some philosophers say, is an absence of pain. I think that the best we can hope for is that the pain is not debilitating too often. Hell, there are times that I think ennui would seem like ecstacy.
- Cam (...goin' down the road feelin' bad,... don't want to be treated this a-way.... - Grateful Dead)
Posted by Adam on July 23, 2001, at 20:52:57
In reply to favorite poets?, posted by paula on July 20, 2001, at 13:31:52
I almost have to catch myself when I say this, but it's true: My favorite poet is myself. Not because I'm deep, or talented, or for any other reason, except that I know what my poems mean. I don't often get the sense I understand the poetry of others. Once in a while I "experience" a poem, if you will, and it moves me greatly. Mostly this is done off the written page. I should read more poetry. I might learn to understand better with time.Since, for the time being, I am my own favorite, I will share another of mine, something forgotten I had dug up recently in a time of self-doubt, I guess to review the emotions I had had back then, and reconnect with them in some way. I thought it might be informative.
Secret
You can't see or hear or
Touch the truth
To know its gravity
And its solid contours
With just your suspicions
That the wideness of my eyes
Or the overlong pauses
Mean anything more than I am
Pondering a stain on my shirt
Or a missed payment
Or any of a million things
I could conjure in a moment
Of mundane subterfuge
How could you know
You feel the doubt
The once supple embrace
Rather stiffens
So slightly as to be just
The spasm of a draft
Through the bedroom window
Or a spider on the sheetsA query direct is mindlessly repeated
To fill a brief span
That is needed to replace
The erstwhile validity
Of my mere expressions and replies
Repeated with deft irritation
For you no more than a blank reflection
To see
You can't quite smell or taste
The cancer, the thing so terrible
Decency demands it never see
The stark light of your honest eyes
And your admiration
The sun that warmed me
Now burns me whenever you draw near
Withers the heart it touches
With disgraceYou and I, together
We are of two minds
Two thoughts, two futures
And a third way, to bear, unaided
The undone, the unspoken
The unrequitted
The real
> Hi All,
>
> Who are your favorite current poets? I've spent most of my time lately reading medieval and renaissance poetry, so I'm curious about some more, uh, modern folks. Off the top of my head, I'd nominate Amy Lowell and James Agee. Admittedly, neither even comes close to being "current." I love the visual quality of Lowell's work. I've only read Agee's _A Death in the Family_. Composer Samuel Barber used parts of the Preface--which is prosodic poetry, really--as the text for his work "Knoxville: Summer of 1915." (Just to connect this back up with depression, "Knoxville" is a richly, beautifully nostalgic piece, but the end has always had a certain resonance for me on the existential front. Anyone know this work?)
>
> Anna Laura, I'm especially curious about current Italian poets. Any favorites? I need to expand my repetoire beyond the '500. :)
>
>
> Procrastinating constructively....
> Paula
Posted by paula on July 24, 2001, at 13:49:21
In reply to Re: favorite poets? » paula, posted by kid_A on July 21, 2001, at 17:08:09
> Are you a writer as well!? I can only guess... Many people who have a love for poetry also are writers... Ive written quite a bit, and I've been working on getting ideas lately for a short story collection...
>
> -pAx-I'm so impressed with the ability to write fiction! Where do you get your ideas? I am a writer only inasmuch as I'm an incipient scholar. So non-fiction is my specialty. I do like playing with language, though. Words are wonderful.
I generally read poetry with an eye for its musicality, its suitability to be set to music. For a short while I was a composer-wannabe. (Actually I started my masters program in composition, but shortly switched to music history.)
p.
Posted by paula on July 24, 2001, at 13:54:11
In reply to Re: favorite poets?, posted by Anna Laura on July 22, 2001, at 6:50:57
Thanks for all of the ideas, Anna Laura! I look forward to reading them. I, too, like Dickinson, Thomas, and Pound. And it looks like the Beats are a heavy favorite here on the board, so I'm definitely going to investigate and see what I'm missing.
Do you know the Copland settings of Dickinson? THey're wonderful.
Grazie ancora,
Paula
> A think Eugenio Montale is a milestone in italian contemporary poetry.
> Ungaretti, Quasimodo,Marinetti are important also. D' Annunzio is quite prominent also but i personally don't like it too much (too much decadent).
> A excellent but hard to decipher poet is Edoardo Sanguineti (still alive, lives in the city where i live). Pierpaolo Pasolini is good also.
> Many contemporary novel writers are poets: among them stands out Nanni Balestrini, novelist and political activist.
> He is the author of "The Invisibles", and "We want it all", novels written in a experimental manner (something close to Joyce stream of counsciousness).
> Another one is Franco Fortini (author of the essay "Extrema Ratio").
> My favourites are Emily Dickinson, Dylan Thomas, Ezra Pound, Arthur Rimbaud and the Beat Generation poets.
>
>
>
> Good Morning - Midnight -
> I'm coming Home -
> Day - got tired of me -
> How could I - of him?
>
> Sunshine was a sweet place -
> I liked to stay -
> But Morn - did' nt want me - now -
> So - Goodnight - Day!
>
> I can look - cant I -
> When the East is red?
> The Hills - have a way - then -
> That puts the Heart - abroad -
>
> You - are not so fair - Midnight -
> I chose - Day -
> But - please take a little Girl -
> He turned away!
>
> Emily Dickinson (1862)
Posted by paula on July 24, 2001, at 14:00:24
In reply to Re: favorite poets?, posted by Adam on July 23, 2001, at 20:52:57
Wow, Adam, I *love* that! Such music! I think it's not uncommon for artists to prefer their own work. If you didn't believe in what you're doing, if you didn't think something wastn't being said that needed saying, then you woudn't write. Right?
Thanks again, really enjoyed it,
Paula
>
> I almost have to catch myself when I say this, but it's true: My favorite poet is myself. Not because I'm deep, or talented, or for any other reason, except that I know what my poems mean. I don't often get the sense I understand the poetry of others. Once in a while I "experience" a poem, if you will, and it moves me greatly. Mostly this is done off the written page. I should read more poetry. I might learn to understand better with time.
>
> Since, for the time being, I am my own favorite, I will share another of mine, something forgotten I had dug up recently in a time of self-doubt, I guess to review the emotions I had had back then, and reconnect with them in some way. I thought it might be informative.
>
> Secret
>
> You can't see or hear or
> Touch the truth
> To know its gravity
> And its solid contours
> With just your suspicions
> That the wideness of my eyes
> Or the overlong pauses
> Mean anything more than I am
> Pondering a stain on my shirt
> Or a missed payment
> Or any of a million things
> I could conjure in a moment
> Of mundane subterfuge
> How could you know
> You feel the doubt
> The once supple embrace
> Rather stiffens
> So slightly as to be just
> The spasm of a draft
> Through the bedroom window
> Or a spider on the sheets
>
> A query direct is mindlessly repeated
> To fill a brief span
> That is needed to replace
> The erstwhile validity
> Of my mere expressions and replies
> Repeated with deft irritation
> For you no more than a blank reflection
> To see
> You can't quite smell or taste
> The cancer, the thing so terrible
> Decency demands it never see
> The stark light of your honest eyes
> And your admiration
> The sun that warmed me
> Now burns me whenever you draw near
> Withers the heart it touches
> With disgrace
>
> You and I, together
> We are of two minds
> Two thoughts, two futures
> And a third way, to bear, unaided
> The undone, the unspoken
> The unrequitted
> The real
>
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Who are your favorite current poets? I've spent most of my time lately reading medieval and renaissance poetry, so I'm curious about some more, uh, modern folks. Off the top of my head, I'd nominate Amy Lowell and James Agee. Admittedly, neither even comes close to being "current." I love the visual quality of Lowell's work. I've only read Agee's _A Death in the Family_. Composer Samuel Barber used parts of the Preface--which is prosodic poetry, really--as the text for his work "Knoxville: Summer of 1915." (Just to connect this back up with depression, "Knoxville" is a richly, beautifully nostalgic piece, but the end has always had a certain resonance for me on the existential front. Anyone know this work?)
> >
> > Anna Laura, I'm especially curious about current Italian poets. Any favorites? I need to expand my repetoire beyond the '500. :)
> >
> >
> > Procrastinating constructively....
> > Paula
Posted by kid_A on July 24, 2001, at 21:43:09
In reply to Re: favorite poets? » kid_A, posted by paula on July 24, 2001, at 13:49:21
> I'm so impressed with the ability to write fiction! Where do you get your ideas? I am a writer only inasmuch as I'm an incipient scholar. So non-fiction is my specialty. I do like playing with language, though. Words are wonderful.
my writing is the writing of all young (read inexperienced) writers... a roman a clef, taking parts of my own life and my own observations, and twisting them, changing characters around, making the he a she, removing this, adding that for flavour... the worst of what could happen, the best of what should happen but doesnt...
romanian writer E.M. Cioran once said that "every book is a postponed suicide" he was a bit of a nihilist... really, another book title of his was "The trouble with being born.", anyways, everything that I write is one step closer to understanding my own self, so I try to put a lot of my own feelings in what I write, I'm not a skilled story teller, as I've never finished a story, but I've written much poetry, and I try to infuse a poetic sense into what I do write of fiction... I am very intennt on the description of even the minute details of mundane existance...
> I generally read poetry with an eye for its musicality, its suitability to be set to music. For a short while I was a composer-wannabe. (Actually I started my masters program in composition, but shortly switched to music history.)
my goal is actually to learn music theory, but i dont know when in the world i will do that... i have the desire to compose long and modal pieces that are sparse and minimal like painting with sound... music is another obsession for me...
(.p-a-x.)
Posted by Adam on July 27, 2001, at 11:20:07
In reply to favorite poets?, posted by paula on July 20, 2001, at 13:31:52
Since there was some discussion of popular (or at least contemporary) music in the thread, and I was digging around, I remembered a couple tunes that were practically worn off the CD during the time I wrote my happy little poem above. I liked them because they were both dismal and funny...but is it art?
(these are just excerpts)
Now you're standing there tongue-tied
You'd better learn your lesson well
Hide what you have to hide
And tell what you have to tell
It's too late to change events
It's time to face the consequence
For delivering the proof
In the policy of truthNever again is what you swore
The time before("Policy of Truth", Martin Gore)
Who said I lied to her?
Who said I lied, because I never...So stop me, oh stop me
Stop me if you think that you've
Heard this one before
Nothing's changed
I still love you,
Oh, I still love you
Only slightly, only slightly less
Than I used to("Stop Me If You Think That You've Heard This One Before", Stephen Patrick Morrisey)
> Hi All,
>
> Who are your favorite current poets? I've spent most of my time lately reading medieval and renaissance poetry, so I'm curious about some more, uh, modern folks. Off the top of my head, I'd nominate Amy Lowell and James Agee. Admittedly, neither even comes close to being "current." I love the visual quality of Lowell's work. I've only read Agee's _A Death in the Family_. Composer Samuel Barber used parts of the Preface--which is prosodic poetry, really--as the text for his work "Knoxville: Summer of 1915." (Just to connect this back up with depression, "Knoxville" is a richly, beautifully nostalgic piece, but the end has always had a certain resonance for me on the existential front. Anyone know this work?)
>
> Anna Laura, I'm especially curious about current Italian poets. Any favorites? I need to expand my repetoire beyond the '500. :)
>
>
> Procrastinating constructively....
> Paula
This is the end of the thread.
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