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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Kingfish on June 21, 2001, at 19:08:27
Sar:
I occassionally post here - must admit I mostly just check in now and then. You and I certainly seem to have a lot in common.
You had posted a while back about possibly falling into the Borderline Personality category. I just found this site while doing some of my own research (I fall under Bipolar II):
http://www.biologicalunhappiness.com
It seemed kind of interesting.
Good luck!
- K.
Posted by sar on June 21, 2001, at 20:40:45
In reply to To Sar - re: Borderline Personality, posted by Kingfish on June 21, 2001, at 19:08:27
Well hey, woman!
Thanks for the link. I'm glad I checked in--have been too tired & busy lately to read/post very much.
Dr. Heller's theory that BPD is mostly biological is radical! Most of what I've read (not a lot...one book and some internet articles) aligns BPD with PTSD or suggests that it's rooted in abuse (physical, emotional, sexual, or all three), though it often "runs in the family." (Which again begs the nature or nurture question.) I've been thinking of my mother lately--for years a demure elementary school teacher by day, she'd fly into a blind rage once she got home, violent hysterics over "your shoes being left out" or "the chair not being pushed in." I don't fly off the handle like her, my main problem is that I absolutely remain unconvinced that I *exist*! When I smoke pot that thought makes me laugh.
Can you tell me some about yourself, Kingfish?
irie!
sar
Posted by Kingfish on June 21, 2001, at 21:21:25
In reply to Re: To Sar - re: Borderline Personality, posted by sar on June 21, 2001, at 20:40:45
Yeah, I've heard that and BPD, too. But then, the few times I sought help prior to seeing a psychiatrist (as opposed to a counselor-type), I was told immediately that I sounded like a sexually abused case, even above my protestations. It's just not the case with me, and I think there was a movement in the nineties to pigeonhole women into that category (repressed memories and all). It really made me mad because my best friend was sexually abused and there was nothing repressed about it.
O.K., a little side-track there.
About me, certainly... I made the long hard decision to see a pdoc about two years ago. Was having increased trouble with heavy depression, starting to have what are I guess are hypomanic episodes; have self-medicated with alcohol since about sixteen. I would have with pot, as well, except it "turned" on me. :) I kept my life together like so many of us do - with great play-acting and the self-medicating. I still struggle with alcohol abuse. I think two things triggered my decision to see a pdoc (I really didn't want to admit there was a possible "mental problem" and have to be on medication):
1. I started having hallucinations
2. My brother, who I'm sure is also Bipolar, cut off the family and started having fits of extreme paranoiaI have a combo that's worked pretty well for a few months but I just posted on Babble because it is draining me too much- the sedation's too much and it's not working as well. Already it's letting me down. :(
Even though I lucked out, and like my pdoc quite a bit, I had to fight for a diagnosis and am in sort of a head lock right now with him, so I guess it's never easy.
What about you? You've had trouble with depression, haven't you? And obviously other things if the Borderline criteria hit some bells.
I wonder if your mom might have been over-compensating at her job like my dad did, and I did, and then, came home exhausted and irritable because of it? In that case, I guess she could have been dealing with lots of different issues/maladies (that's my new word for "Mental Illness").
The Dr. Heller site, which does sell him quite a bit, has a page on what Mentally Healthy people are like, which is an interesting thought, and could be a good thread, because I always wonder.
Hmmm.
- K.
Posted by sar on June 22, 2001, at 17:02:50
In reply to Re: To Sar - re: Borderline Personality, posted by Kingfish on June 21, 2001, at 21:21:25
Kingfish,
Glad you brought up the sidetrack...most of my doctors have said "Are you sure?" when I say no, that I've not been sexually abused. 3 of my male aquaintances have recalled "repressed" memories in the past few years; their siblings/parents confirmed that the abuse had indeed happened. Controversial topic, for sure.
How would you describe your brother's "fits of extreme paranoia"? Do you consider yourself borderline too? I just finished Susanna Kaysen's memoir of her stay at McLean hospital in Belmont, 1967, dx'd "borderline"--very good, so good I polished it off in one sitting even mildly hungover & cognition poor.
I'm glad that you got yourself to the pdoc. It's difficult--Admittance. If you held out 'til you were having hallucinations, you're a pretty tough cookie in my book.
Prozac and time have helped some. I don't know. I feel better but my friends and family seem to think I've turned into an alcoholic bitch. But I feel better. This is all very confusing.
"What Mentally Healthy people are like"--?? I didn't see that on Dr. Heller's site, I'll have to check again...
What do you mean that you had to fight your pdoc for a diagnosis? He didn't want to give you one? Do you feel that a diagnosis has helped you resolve or work on any of your problems? My psychoanalyst did not want to give me a diagnosis either, but I checked her bill for a code number and matched it up in the DSM-IV to avoid debating with her.
sar
Posted by AMenz on June 22, 2001, at 17:09:14
In reply to Re: To Sar - re: Borderline Personality, posted by sar on June 21, 2001, at 20:40:45
I am firmly convinced that something that gives you symptoms so serious the average human being doesn't experience anything like it, means what you have is biochemical.
I have seen people go through, Auchwitz, 15 years imprisonment as political prisoners etc and come back fine. I think without an underlying biochemical problem, no amount of "environmental insult" is going to give you PTSD, of BPD. IMHO, since they haven't awarded me the Nobel prize in psychiatry just yet.
> Well hey, woman!
>
> Thanks for the link. I'm glad I checked in--have been too tired & busy lately to read/post very much.
>
> Dr. Heller's theory that BPD is mostly biological is radical! Most of what I've read (not a lot...one book and some internet articles) aligns BPD with PTSD or suggests that it's rooted in abuse (physical, emotional, sexual, or all three), though it often "runs in the family." (Which again begs the nature or nurture question.) I've been thinking of my mother lately--for years a demure elementary school teacher by day, she'd fly into a blind rage once she got home, violent hysterics over "your shoes being left out" or "the chair not being pushed in." I don't fly off the handle like her, my main problem is that I absolutely remain unconvinced that I *exist*! When I smoke pot that thought makes me laugh.
>
> Can you tell me some about yourself, Kingfish?
>
> irie!
> sar
Posted by sar on June 22, 2001, at 17:16:07
In reply to Re: To Sar - re: Borderline Personality, posted by sar on June 22, 2001, at 17:02:50
Just wanted to add that my psych, whom I respect very much, told me that she usually tries to go with a fitting diagnosis that has the best prognosis. Insurance companies apparently don't like "borderlines" much.
I guess that's where the whole diagnostic thing gets a bit shady, but I'm with you on wanting some sort of solid answer.
sar
Posted by lissa on June 23, 2001, at 1:02:56
In reply to Re: To Sar - re: Borderline Personality, posted by AMenz on June 22, 2001, at 17:09:14
I checked out biologicalunhappiness.com just to see what it was. I understand perfectly well that several mental illnesses can be improved by medications which influence "biology," but I really don't buy "biological unhappiness." What a weird phrase. Mr. Biological Unhappiness needs an enthusiastic dog or a peppy significant other.
Posted by Kingfish on June 23, 2001, at 9:04:02
In reply to Re: To Sar - re: Borderline Personality, posted by sar on June 22, 2001, at 17:02:50
> Re: Repressed Memories - yeah, I'm so very much against them, yet I wouldn't be surpised a bit to find out that my past actually includes some sort of sexual abuse (definitely not parents, though).
I don't actually know the criteria for borderline pers. My brother started thinking the goverment was after him and things like that.
The book you read sounds interesting. Sylvia Plath is still one of my favorites. I grab anything that is about women in mental hospitals.
The whole alcohol thing is tricky. My family has no clue I struggle with it (except for my husband, and I hide it pretty well from him).
Are you more self-confident now that you're taking Prozac, and is that why they're terming you as a bitch? Just curious, because, I'm going through that right now with my husband - I'm feeling better and acting more like "myself", more independent, and am being termed things like "negative" now. ;)
By the way, are you in Texas? I'm from Dallas originally.
And the diagnosis thing - I understand your Dr.'s point of view - that's actually partly why I wanted a specific code. I was down as Mood Disorder, Not Otherwise Specified, and if I switch Dr.'s I wanted something concrete. Also, I "knew" I was Bipolar, being the specialist that I am. :) And I absolutely feel it has helped me work on things. I can research it now more confidently, although I know I shouldn't have needed it to do that. And I was able to tell my family honestly that I was diagnosed as being Bipolar II. It carries some weight that way.
Posted by Kingfish on June 23, 2001, at 9:04:51
In reply to Re: To Sar - re: Borderline Personality, posted by AMenz on June 22, 2001, at 17:09:14
That's an interesting point...
Posted by AMenz on June 23, 2001, at 12:22:20
In reply to Re: To Sar - re: Borderline Personality, posted by AMenz on June 22, 2001, at 17:09:14
Nowhere did my "theory" seem more plausible than during the two years I spent in a support group for the separated and divorcerd (SAD, they called it-:)).
People who went to the group were there, almost to a person, because they had been the "dumpee's" in the relationship. Dumpers were presumably getting on with their lives.
Virtually every woman and I'd say 2/3 of the men suffered some type of depression from moderate to severe, with all the DSM-III symptoms. Here's the kicker. Whatever they did, whether therapy or no therapy AD's or not AD's virtually all members recovered after a set period-about two years for females and 6 to 9 months for men, except for those members whoe either previous to entering group or during group membership had an underlying bipolar disorder. As a matter of fact the failure to have symptoms minimize after attending the support group led to psychiatric intervention, which led to discovery of underlying disorder.
This for me was proof enough that Bipolars, etc lack a "righting response". I.e., their brains fail to restabilize after an environmental problem. Whereas "normal" or better put, the biochemically normal seem to possess this ability which I believe is non volitional and stricly biochemical.
I think psychiatrists and researchers don't hang around support groups etc where they could learn a hell of a lot.
Same thing happens for example in AA. Alcoholics who are not comorbid tend to recover brain function etc after some period of years. Seems to be about 6. Comorbid alcoholics actually get worse when they stop drinking because the masked underlying disorder, BP, UPD what have you becomes florid. They have the added problem that there are still some in AA that do not believe in psychiatry and meds because of past failures in the profession to deal with addictive disorders. This again is not theoretical it comes from observing my husband's ten year recovery and going with him to countless meetings.
Probably a good place to validate this theory might be support groups for adult children of alcoholics, etc. See how victims of abuse react. Can some simply develop some mild symptoms or behavioral difficulties, whereas others develope serious mental illnesses, etc.
> I am firmly convinced that something that gives you symptoms so serious the average human being doesn't experience anything like it, means what you have is biochemical.
>
> I have seen people go through, Auchwitz, 15 years imprisonment as political prisoners etc and come back fine. I think without an underlying biochemical problem, no amount of "environmental insult" is going to give you PTSD, of BPD. IMHO, since they haven't awarded me the Nobel prize in psychiatry just yet.
>
> > Well hey, woman!
> >
> > Thanks for the link. I'm glad I checked in--have been too tired & busy lately to read/post very much.
> >
> > Dr. Heller's theory that BPD is mostly biological is radical! Most of what I've read (not a lot...one book and some internet articles) aligns BPD with PTSD or suggests that it's rooted in abuse (physical, emotional, sexual, or all three), though it often "runs in the family." (Which again begs the nature or nurture question.) I've been thinking of my mother lately--for years a demure elementary school teacher by day, she'd fly into a blind rage once she got home, violent hysterics over "your shoes being left out" or "the chair not being pushed in." I don't fly off the handle like her, my main problem is that I absolutely remain unconvinced that I *exist*! When I smoke pot that thought makes me laugh.
> >
> > Can you tell me some about yourself, Kingfish?
> >
> > irie!
> > sar
Posted by sar on June 26, 2001, at 19:57:09
In reply to Re: To Kingfish - re: BPD, BP etc Biochemistry, posted by AMenz on June 23, 2001, at 12:22:20
Friday night I got a little bit drunk and called the police to give me a ride to a mental hospital. EMS and 2 cops cars showed up, I was so embarrassed because I hadn't *done* anything, I just felt tired of being so damn suicidal all the time. I didn't need an EMS truck and 5 people shining flashlights into my eyes, yo. I just wanted a safe ride to a place I could go w/ no insurance and no money. They didn't understand that I was suicidal. I'm 23 and clean and decent looking and in my pajamas, just drunk. I felt happy to see them, I felt better. I flirted w/ the cop and asked him lots of questions about his job and his family, kept him laughing, felt it was the least I could do for wasting his time in such a large crime-ridden city on a Friday night.
They took me to a relatively swank hospital where I stayed prozax, xanaz, and Tripleman and hung out w/ the most wonderful people for 4 days. I didn't want to leave but I had to 'cos I can't pay their $900/day rate (!!!).
Diagnoses, man! The admitting doctor felt sure that I was bipolar, the "mixed state" kind. Another doc felt sure that I was only depressed--and get this yall--when I said i thought maybe I was borderline he said, "Half of all white girls qualify for borderline personality disorder" and suggested I stop this self-absorption and poetic histrionics.
Now I feel really confused, o should I maybe just toss these BPD books I've obtained? It seems like mental patients on the web take mental illness more seriously than some of the hardliner psychs I've seen (ahh...some want you to spending hours rehashing your "trauma" and talking of "guilt and shame" while others have the get-the-fuck-over-it attitude.)
what to think, what to think...?!
Nikki, if you're reading this, come to Texas if you want to be hosptitalized. (Wish that were possible, eh?!) Texas aint great for a lot of things, but they treated me right there--I'm sure I gained 5 lbs from the food and I still feel docile as a little lamb from all the xanax.
love,
sar
Posted by Kingfish on June 27, 2001, at 7:51:54
In reply to woah..., posted by sar on June 26, 2001, at 19:57:09
Ah! Sar, I don't know you at all, but this sounds so serious! I'm really glad they responded so well to you. To be honest, though, I wish I had done something of the sort when I was younger (I'm 30). Maybe folks will start taking your concerns a little more seriously now??!! Do you think that had anything to do with your doing it?
My husband once said that if I had ever just broken down and been hospitalized, he would have understood more. Great, so if I'd tried to commit suicide, people would have believed me?!
So, how are you now? I'd definitely say you sound Bipolar. You sound like me (or maybe all Texans are Flamboyant? ;) ).
Of course you know the advice most folks here would give - go to your pdoc, and tell her the story. This is a major one. And sometimes, it's tough to know how much you should include the alcohol, because they'll blame that, and "normal" people just don't do those sorts of things on alcohol (or roam around NY City all night alone, etc., etc.).
Repost for your friends here -I doubt they'd be checking this thread 'cause this is serious and they're going to want to know about it.
Take care and let everyone know how you are!!
- K.
P.S. Does sound like a pretty nice experience in the hospital, except what was with the comment about Borderline Disorder? I'd have had a few choice words for that guy!
=====
Friday night I got a little bit drunk and called the police to give me a ride to a mental hospital. EMS and 2 cops cars showed up, I was so embarrassed because I hadn't *done* anything, I just felt tired of being so damn suicidal all the time. I didn't need an EMS truck and 5 people shining flashlights into my eyes, yo. I just wanted a safe ride to a place I could go w/ no insurance and no money. They didn't understand that I was suicidal. I'm 23 and clean and decent looking and in my pajamas, just drunk. I felt happy to see them, I felt better. I flirted w/ the cop and asked him lots of questions about his job and his family, kept him laughing, felt it was the least I could do for wasting his time in such a large crime-ridden city on a Friday night.
>
> They took me to a relatively swank hospital where I stayed prozax, xanaz, and Tripleman and hung out w/ the most wonderful people for 4 days. I didn't want to leave but I had to 'cos I can't pay their $900/day rate (!!!).
>
> Diagnoses, man! The admitting doctor felt sure that I was bipolar, the "mixed state" kind. Another doc felt sure that I was only depressed--and get this yall--when I said i thought maybe I was borderline he said, "Half of all white girls qualify for borderline personality disorder" and suggested I stop this self-absorption and poetic histrionics.
>
> Now I feel really confused, o should I maybe just toss these BPD books I've obtained? It seems like mental patients on the web take mental illness more seriously than some of the hardliner psychs I've seen (ahh...some want you to spending hours rehashing your "trauma" and talking of "guilt and shame" while others have the get-the-fuck-over-it attitude.)
>
> what to think, what to think...?!
>
> Nikki, if you're reading this, come to Texas if you want to be hosptitalized. (Wish that were possible, eh?!) Texas aint great for a lot of things, but they treated me right there--I'm sure I gained 5 lbs from the food and I still feel docile as a little lamb from all the xanax.
>
> love,
> sar
Posted by Ted on June 27, 2001, at 10:52:33
In reply to woah..., posted by sar on June 26, 2001, at 19:57:09
Hey sar,
NO FAIR! When I was in the hospital 2 years ago, it was around $1500/day. I think we should all come to TX for a visit. :-)
Ted
>I didn't want to leave but I had to 'cos I can't pay their $900/day rate (!!!).
>
Posted by sar on June 27, 2001, at 16:03:15
In reply to Re: woah..., posted by Kingfish on June 27, 2001, at 7:51:54
The strange thing is that it almost seemed so normal. I just didn't want to go to work the next day. My options seemed limited: I could kill myself and not go to work, or I could call the police and let them figure out what to do with me.
You're originally from Dallas, Kingfish? You aren't a SMU girl, are you (apparently there's kind of a silly racy song the A&M boys sing about the SMU ("Smoo") girls)? I'm in San Antonio right now.
I don't think anyone should have to resort to suicide in order to make people understand. What your husband said makes sense, but it's also ridiculous and a great indicator that he doesn't understand the ins & outs of depression. Most people are lucky enough not to--and when they do it doesn't even take that much explaining, you just see the knowing look in their eyes. *however,* and I am said to say this, my own suicide attempt in February helped my parents to realize what a sad tomato I really am. They'd previously thought that I was a bit depressed because I don't have a career goal, and what will I do with a Lib Arts degree? I laughed hard at that.
Here's my quandry about bipolar disorder: I've never felt manic except when drinking. 75% of the time I'm very sad and shy, then 25% of the time I get dressed to the nines, go out and drink, flirt and find myself surrounded by men snorting up champagne, telling funny stories & taking strangers home. I may just have Shy Depressed Drunk Girl Disorder, I don't know. How would you describe your own bipolarity, Kingfish? I just don't want to jump to any false conclusions...I just also want to figure out why I feel so fuckin bad all the time.
Texans are rad, I love Texas. Where do you live now?
Thanks for your concern, Kingfish, you're a sweetheart, please keep posting.
love
sar
Posted by sar on June 27, 2001, at 16:13:46
In reply to Re: woah..., posted by Ted on June 27, 2001, at 10:52:33
> Hey sar,
>
> NO FAIR! When I was in the hospital 2 years ago, it was around $1500/day. I think we should all come to TX for a visit. :-)
>
> Ted
>
Ahhh, Texas...land of Fiesta Gold margaritas, Pace picante sauce, the Alamo, one of the worst educational systems and oppressively hot weather, but some damn good mental hospitals!C'mon over, yall! We'll par-tay on enchiladas and mood stabilizers together for the cut-rate of $900 a day.
sillily,
sar
Posted by Kingfish on June 28, 2001, at 8:18:06
In reply to Re: woah..., posted by sar on June 27, 2001, at 16:03:15
> Sar:
I'll post more later, but the whole going to work thing hits home BIG time. So many times I would literally hide in my closet because I didn't want to go to work the next day (mostly on Sundays). And on most Sundays I would get drunk. Once I found a job that I didn't absolutely hate, I would still do the Sunday thing, but then as I got into the swing of the week, I would feel a "little" better.
I am not an SMU girl but my Mom was.
- K.
Posted by Kingfish on June 28, 2001, at 8:20:42
In reply to Re: woah...Ted, posted by sar on June 27, 2001, at 16:13:46
> > And speaking of Pace Picante Sauce - I live in NY near Woodstock now - was in NY City for awhile before that and loved it. Plan to go back soon. Lots of Texans there, believe it or not...
Posted by sar on June 30, 2001, at 12:51:45
In reply to NY City??!!, posted by Kingfish on June 28, 2001, at 8:20:42
"New York City? Git a rope!"
This is the end of the thread.
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