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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Sef on January 15, 2001, at 10:58:43
I have continued this discussion here...it was first posted on the med board...but I felt it should be on the social board.
Anyway...Cath has trouble with scalp picking, Rach has trouble with face picking, and I can't stop myself from seeking out and destroying split ends for hours on end.
Just curious, any other bizarre compulsive behaviors out there? These admissions have really helped me to feel better about my own.
Posted by Greg on January 15, 2001, at 11:05:13
In reply to Bizzarre compulsive behaviors anyone?, posted by Sef on January 15, 2001, at 10:58:43
I pick at my cuticles to the point where I draw blood and beyond...does this qualify?
> I have continued this discussion here...it was first posted on the med board...but I felt it should be on the social board.
>
> Anyway...Cath has trouble with scalp picking, Rach has trouble with face picking, and I can't stop myself from seeking out and destroying split ends for hours on end.
>
> Just curious, any other bizarre compulsive behaviors out there? These admissions have really helped me to feel better about my own.
Posted by Noa on January 15, 2001, at 11:57:53
In reply to Re: Bizzarre compulsive behaviors anyone? » Sef, posted by Greg on January 15, 2001, at 11:05:13
It seems to run in my family, too. I do it (scalp picking, skin picking) and I think it is exacerbated by my meds, actually. My brother also does it (scalp).
I have gone back and forth about *what* it is. I don't think it is SI in the usual sense. It seems more related to trichotillomania, which I don't see as SI.There is an organization call Trichotillomania and OTHER BODY FOCUSED DISORDERS and I think the scalp picking/scratching/skin picking comes under that category. It feels very biochemical to me--almost like a tic that I can resist but only for so long. Like some people with tics, I can suppress the urge for social reasons but then as soon as I am alone--it has to be done.
As I said, I suspect that my meds make it worse, only because it seems worse in the past few years.
Posted by Ted on January 15, 2001, at 19:16:11
In reply to Re: Bizzarre compulsive behaviors anyone? » Sef, posted by Greg on January 15, 2001, at 11:05:13
It does, and I do (or did) it too. FWIW, I found zoloft to be good at preventing the urge, to the point that my department secretary at work said I have beautiful nails! :-) Before zoloft, every time I tried to stop, it got worse in a couple of weeks. I tried all the standard reconditioning techniques as well: snapping a rubber band on my wrist whenever I felt the urge, painting my nails with a *really awful* tasting polish, wearing gloves, etc. Nothing helped until zoloft. As always, YMMV.
Ted
> I pick at my cuticles to the point where I draw blood and beyond...does this qualify?
Posted by shar on January 16, 2001, at 11:10:56
In reply to Re: Bizzarre compulsive behaviors anyone?, posted by Ted on January 15, 2001, at 19:16:11
Does counting count? I count everything. How many seconds it takes to get from here to there, to take a shower, and some other really amazing things. If I get interrupted I don't get upset, but I will find myself there again. I'm usually unaware of doing it when I start, but then I realize "oh, I'm counting how long it's taking me to brush my dog." Ack!
Shar
Posted by Noa on January 16, 2001, at 15:19:14
In reply to Re: Bizzarre compulsive behaviors anyone?, posted by shar on January 16, 2001, at 11:10:56
Shar, counting sounds like OCD to me.
Recently, I spent time with my 9 yo niece, who has OCD. At one point, someone gave her a lollipop, and she told me she was counting how many licks it would take to finish it.
Posted by Sef on January 16, 2001, at 16:42:15
In reply to Bizzarre compulsive behaviors anyone?, posted by Sef on January 15, 2001, at 10:58:43
Does anyone have to continue their bizzarre compulsive behavior until they have done it an even or odd number of times? I can't stop on an odd numbered split end...I will have to find another split end to cut so I will end on an even number...which sometimes perpetuates the activity, because I might find two at once while looking for the one which will make it even!
Sef
Posted by Shell on January 16, 2001, at 22:40:15
In reply to Re: Bizzarre COMPOUND compulsive behaviors anyone?, posted by Sef on January 16, 2001, at 16:42:15
You mean "normal" people don't do these things? No wonder I have depression. It seems like I am constantly finding that something I do which I thought was just part of my personality is abnormal/compulsive/neurotic, etc (OK, maybe not constantly, but sometimes it feels that way!).
I never gave the face picking thing much thought until I read this thread. I have to admit, I just spent the last half hour in front of a magnifying mirror, looking for anything that could potentially be picked. I don't have an acne problem; I have always had a clear complexion for the most part. I tend to pick at things that can only be found in the magnifying mirror. Of course, by the time I am done, these nearly unnoticeable flaws are red and inflamed. I realize that it makes no sense to pick at almost undetectable things in an attempt to remove all imperfections when doing so actually leaves larger more noticable marks. So much for logic. I recently have even told myself I am doing better; I am trying only to pick at night so that the red marks I make will be gone before morning.
When I can't find anything on my face worth picking, I start in on my husband's face (he is rather patient). Does anyone else do this?
I never connected the two before, but I do have OCD. Does anyone think that may have anything to do with these kinds of things?Shell
PS - I agree with Noa on the counting thing. I count like that too and that is one of the things I was told is definitely part of my OCD. At least with counting, no one else knows I am doing it (and it doesn't leave red marks on my face!)
Posted by julesvox on January 17, 2001, at 23:58:36
In reply to Re: Bizzarre compulsive behaviors anyone?, posted by Shell on January 16, 2001, at 22:40:15
thanks for starting this thread! i also pick my skin, zits & scalp...my skin problems got really bad last fall and i did some research...a lot of folks believe the skin is where we express a lot of emotional upheaval, so not only do we pick at it when we're feeling other stuff, but it can manifest symptoms like eczema and psoriasis when there are underlying psych issues. i've started to pay more attention, and i believe my skin actually does get more dry when i'm stressed out. there's a kind of corny but useful site at http://grossbart.com/sd/Skin_Deep9.html about some of these issues, and andrew weil also talks about it in his book on natural healing.
Posted by Noa on January 18, 2001, at 16:22:46
In reply to Re: Bizzarre COMPOUND compulsive behaviors anyone?, posted by Sef on January 16, 2001, at 16:42:15
Ok,
having to even up sides like that sounds like a classic sign of OCD.
Posted by Noa on January 18, 2001, at 16:36:05
In reply to Re: Bizzarre compulsive behaviors anyone?, posted by julesvox on January 17, 2001, at 23:58:36
Thanks for the link--it was interesting.
I do think my scalp scratching started because I had very dry skin, especially the scalp, when I was young, and had horrible itching, especially in the winter.
I think I went from scratching the itches, to picking at the scabs that developed from the severe itching-scratching, and then it became a nervous habit.
However, I still think there has to be an underlying biochemical-behavior loop because my brother also does this.I also wonder about any connection to typcial social behavior in primates--checking for fleas on self and others, etc.
The itching eventually became controlled by medicated shampoo, and then just by using head and shoulders. But the scratching/picking at dandruff, etc. continued intermittently.
It spread to the face when acne developed and this was intermittent, too. In the past few years, my acne has been bad and the face picking worsened. I don't know if it is also related to medication. The acne is related to insulin resistance and irregular periods. But my face is made worse by the picking--I know that the acne itself isn't as unsightly as the results of what I do to it. I try to be aware of this, and as illogical as it is, sometimes I just cannot suppress the urge.
Let's keep this thread alive--I'd like to think we can think of ourselves as a research group in search of information together.
Posted by Noa on January 18, 2001, at 16:48:24
In reply to Re: Bizzarre compulsive behaviors anyone?, posted by Noa on January 18, 2001, at 16:36:05
Info on Trichotillomania from the Trichotillomania Learning Center:
http://www.trich.org/whatis.htm
I believe that a few years ago, their conference focused on not just TTM, but on other "body focused disorders" as well.
Posted by Noa on January 18, 2001, at 17:01:16
In reply to Re: Bizzarre compulsive behaviors anyone?, posted by Noa on January 18, 2001, at 16:48:24
I found a site for a clinic that is doing a study on skin picking:
STUDY 2: Evaluating the effectiveness of brief habit reversal for the treatment of repetitive skin picking in
adults.
If anyone is interested the URL is:
Posted by Noa on January 18, 2001, at 17:15:40
In reply to Re: Bizzarre compulsive behaviors anyone?, posted by Noa on January 18, 2001, at 17:01:16
Some articles from PubMed:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9934938&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9818631&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7491380&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7883406&dopt=Abstract
Posted by Jackster on January 19, 2001, at 17:05:28
In reply to Re: Bizzarre compulsive behaviors anyone?, posted by Noa on January 18, 2001, at 16:36:05
I've done both - the scalp picking and the picking on my face. My acne wasn't really bad, but the fact that I would pick at it made it 10 x worse and liable to scarring. I never actually linked it with a mind disorder - part of my agoraphobia. It's kind of a relief to know that I'm not the only one that does it. I still pick every now and then when I'm really stressed.
Thanks for the link--it was interesting.
>
> I do think my scalp scratching started because I had very dry skin, especially the scalp, when I was young, and had horrible itching, especially in the winter.
>
> I think I went from scratching the itches, to picking at the scabs that developed from the severe itching-scratching, and then it became a nervous habit.
>
>
> However, I still think there has to be an underlying biochemical-behavior loop because my brother also does this.
>
> I also wonder about any connection to typcial social behavior in primates--checking for fleas on self and others, etc.
>
> The itching eventually became controlled by medicated shampoo, and then just by using head and shoulders. But the scratching/picking at dandruff, etc. continued intermittently.
>
> It spread to the face when acne developed and this was intermittent, too. In the past few years, my acne has been bad and the face picking worsened. I don't know if it is also related to medication. The acne is related to insulin resistance and irregular periods. But my face is made worse by the picking--I know that the acne itself isn't as unsightly as the results of what I do to it. I try to be aware of this, and as illogical as it is, sometimes I just cannot suppress the urge.
>
> Let's keep this thread alive--I'd like to think we can think of ourselves as a research group in search of information together.
Posted by julesvox on January 20, 2001, at 15:07:42
In reply to Re: Bizzarre compulsive behaviors anyone?, posted by Noa on January 18, 2001, at 17:15:40
noa--
thank you for all those links. i was glad to see them.
the problem i have with them is that they are so focused on skin-picking as pathology...trying to get it into the DSM seems to me kind of unhelpful. i mean, obviously this behavior can get severe and disfiguring and very damaging, and people deserve whatever treatment is available. and, like you said, i think there must be a biochem-behavioral loop (my parents & sister also have very dry skin, dandruff/dermatitis etc). and i hear that to you & others it feels very chemical.
and, i'm uncomfortable with approaches that treat the skin as completely separate from other parts of the body and mind and spirit. so i've begun gently asking my body what else might be going on. like, i know i have boundary issues and that when i feel threatened, like i can't say no, i itch & scratch & pick. the skin is our biggest boundary. when i had an allergic reaction to some antibiotics my fever shot up and my skin was bright red, swollen & so itchy all over. when i scratched i left bruises. so this was a chemical thing...and i think it was also about how i was feeling. i was so angry & nervous and the itching got a little less when i was able to calm down and be more present. not either/or. when i'm picking a lot, i try to remember to pay attention to how in touch with my body i am, if i'm dissociating (but also try not to beat myself up for picking).
andrew weil says "dermatitis is an allergic and psychosomatcic condition, for which conventioal medicine can offer only suppressive therapies....mind/body interventions combined with lifestyle changes and nontoxic symptomatic management will often allow the body to heal itself."
i wonder what you think of all this...i'm certainly not arguing that we can control how our skin feels or are to 'blame' for picking. i'm interested in a more wholistic approach. j.
Posted by samo on January 21, 2001, at 11:59:19
In reply to Re: crawling out of my skin (long) » Noa, posted by julesvox on January 20, 2001, at 15:07:42
i have been reading the posts here for a couple of months. this thread demands a response. wow. i am a total picker. it is so horrible, but i can't stop it: face, scalp, back, anywhere theres a bump or something to grab on to. i *have* to pick all scabs. the worst is it feels so gooooood. there is something twistedly satisfying about it. i always thought of it as just a bad habit. this is so interesting.
thanks noa for all the websites.
i struggle with depression, am currently on effexor xr and just kicked a nasty pill habit (coedine). so basically i am a little messed up. part of my quirky charm! ha!i would love to stop all this picking it is gross and i would look so much better if i didn't do it. i do it so unconsciously that i have caught myself, at times doing it in public. gasp and shame.
i hope this threaed continues.
samo
Posted by Rach on January 21, 2001, at 15:38:11
In reply to Re: crawling out of my skin (long) » Noa, posted by julesvox on January 20, 2001, at 15:07:42
When I was done with my face I would move onto my boyfriends back. He, too, was very patient. I even once picked at my mum's face!
Posted by Aylese on January 22, 2001, at 21:16:26
In reply to Shell, posted by Rach on January 21, 2001, at 15:38:11
Skin-picking is also a criteria for diagnosing ADHD.
My husband has compulsive behaviors he isn't even aware of. The older he becomes the more he exhibits these behaviors.
I believe these are tic disorder behaviors. It is becoming difficult to enjoy his company. Here goes:
He clears his throat about every 5 seconds or even more. The more excited he is about something, the louder and more frequent these throat clearings become. His throat clearing is often followed by nose-sniffing and then rubbint his nose.
He hums a non-tune noise while preparing his plate to eat. Every morsel of food item he places on his plate gets it's own few non-notes. When he butters his bread, etc., more humming. This humming has become more frequent and he also does this while rifeling through papers or laundry or files, etc.
He talks out loud to himself wherever he happens to be. If he is really excited, he talks louder and louder. Yes, he does ask questions and answers them too. He talks very loud when he fills the gas tank or scrapes the frost off his windshield. I tell him he must stop or someone is going to call the police or ambulance and have him taken away sometime.
When people begin a conversation with him, he will abrupty and loudly say "What?" or "I beg your pardon?" without even listening to what they have said.
I find all of these behaviors very distressing and it causes real anger in me sometimes. He is an extremely intelligent fellow. Above average. He is certainly a work-aholic-type person.
Sometimes I think he is just rude and selfish for behaving this way, but I always know he is unaware that he is behaving in such an aggravating way. Is this something that could be controlled with medication?
Please respond, anybody!
Thanks,
Aylese
Posted by Aylese on January 22, 2001, at 21:21:44
In reply to Re: Shell, posted by Aylese on January 22, 2001, at 21:16:26
> Skin-picking is also a criteria for diagnosing ADHD.
>
SORRY FOLKS,
I SHOULD HAVE NAMED THIS BEFORE I SENT IT UNDER "RE: SHELL."> My husband has compulsive behaviors he isn't even aware of. The older he becomes the more he exhibits these behaviors.
>
> I believe these are tic disorder behaviors. It is becoming difficult to enjoy his company. Here goes:
>
> He clears his throat about every 5 seconds or even more. The more excited he is about something, the louder and more frequent these throat clearings become. His throat clearing is often followed by nose-sniffing and then rubbint his nose.
>
> He hums a non-tune noise while preparing his plate to eat. Every morsel of food item he places on his plate gets it's own few non-notes. When he butters his bread, etc., more humming. This humming has become more frequent and he also does this while rifeling through papers or laundry or files, etc.
>
> He talks out loud to himself wherever he happens to be. If he is really excited, he talks louder and louder. Yes, he does ask questions and answers them too. He talks very loud when he fills the gas tank or scrapes the frost off his windshield. I tell him he must stop or someone is going to call the police or ambulance and have him taken away sometime.
>
> When people begin a conversation with him, he will abrupty and loudly say "What?" or "I beg your pardon?" without even listening to what they have said.
>
> I find all of these behaviors very distressing and it causes real anger in me sometimes. He is an extremely intelligent fellow. Above average. He is certainly a work-aholic-type person.
>
> Sometimes I think he is just rude and selfish for behaving this way, but I always know he is unaware that he is behaving in such an aggravating way. Is this something that could be controlled with medication?
>
> Please respond, anybody!
> Thanks,
> Aylese
>
>
>
Posted by Shell on January 22, 2001, at 22:35:47
In reply to Re: Shell, posted by Aylese on January 22, 2001, at 21:16:26
> Skin-picking is also a criteria for diagnosing ADHD.
>
> My husband has compulsive behaviors he isn't even aware of. The older he becomes the more he exhibits these behaviors.
>
> I believe these are tic disorder behaviors. It is becoming difficult to enjoy his company. Here goes:
>
> He clears his throat about every 5 seconds or even more. The more excited he is about something, the louder and more frequent these throat clearings become. His throat clearing is often followed by nose-sniffing and then rubbint his nose.
>
> He hums a non-tune noise while preparing his plate to eat. Every morsel of food item he places on his plate gets it's own few non-notes. When he butters his bread, etc., more humming. This humming has become more frequent and he also does this while rifeling through papers or laundry or files, etc.
>
> He talks out loud to himself wherever he happens to be. If he is really excited, he talks louder and louder. Yes, he does ask questions and answers them too. He talks very loud when he fills the gas tank or scrapes the frost off his windshield. I tell him he must stop or someone is going to call the police or ambulance and have him taken away sometime.
>
> When people begin a conversation with him, he will abrupty and loudly say "What?" or "I beg your pardon?" without even listening to what they have said.
>
> I find all of these behaviors very distressing and it causes real anger in me sometimes. He is an extremely intelligent fellow. Above average. He is certainly a work-aholic-type person.
>
> Sometimes I think he is just rude and selfish for behaving this way, but I always know he is unaware that he is behaving in such an aggravating way. Is this something that could be controlled with medication?
>
> Please respond, anybody!
> Thanks,
> Aylese
>
>
>
Skin picking is a criteria for ADHD? I have ADHD too (along with depression and OCD). This really gets more and more depressing!As for your husband's behaviors, I can see how that would drive you crazy. Even though he isn't doing it intentionally, that has to be maddening. On a smaller scale, I feel the same way about my husband's snorning. I know he can't help it and isn't even aware of it, but I seem to almost take it personally!
I really don't know if his behavior is indicative of a disorder that can be helped by medication. The obvious solution would be to have him evaluated. If he is resistant to this, either because he doesn't think he has a problem or because he just doesn't like the idea of therapy and/or medication, it might be useful for you to go talk to a professsional about how to live with his habits. Perhaps if the counselor feels his behaviors may be treatable, he/she could request that he come in to attend a session of "your" therapy. It sounds a little sneaky, but I have known it to work before when someone was reluctant to seek treatment on his own (no, not my husband...I don't know that that would work for snoring!!)
Shell
Posted by quilter on January 22, 2001, at 22:41:06
In reply to Annoying Compulsive Behaviors, posted by Aylese on January 22, 2001, at 21:21:44
It does sound like both medical and psychological evaluations might be useful. However bringing the subject up in association with intervention by authorities (police, etc.) is unlikely to make encouraging him to pursue these exams any easier. Just my opinion-
Quilter
Posted by Noa on January 25, 2001, at 8:29:41
In reply to Re: Shell, posted by Aylese on January 22, 2001, at 21:16:26
Has he always had this, or did it start in adulthood?
It sounds like Vocal tics, but since Tourettes, etc. are usually dxed in childhood, I would wonder about that. If it is something that developed in adulthood, or is getting worse, it does have a neurological sound to it, tho. Perhaps a good neurology work up is in order.
Posted by Aylese on January 28, 2001, at 10:52:25
In reply to Re: Shell, posted by Noa on January 25, 2001, at 8:29:41
.
Posted by Aylese on January 28, 2001, at 10:59:16
In reply to Re: Shell, posted by Shell on January 22, 2001, at 22:35:47
Good advice! Thanks for your help, ladies.
This is the end of the thread.
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