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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Racer on November 9, 2000, at 20:54:07
This is a rant. You have been warned!
OK, so I'm contracting this week, as a designer. Sure, my background is a different kind of design, but I know page layout and all that, so it's fine. I can do this just fine.
So, what's the problem? The woman I'm working for on this one is driving me around the bend! She wants me to finalize the layout -- BUT SHE HASN'T CREATED THE CONTENT!!! All I've got so far is the draft content, which she says she's going to rewrite and add to. I was in big trouble today, and looked like a fool, trying to keep my head down and my mouth closed. She was treating me like a dim-witted clerk -- and I was nodding and saying, "yes ma'am" when I was thinking "You idiot".
Late this afternoon, I finally spoke up: You know, all of this is going to have to be redone when you add the content. All the changes you make to the content are going to effect the layout, so we're duplicating a lot of effort by doing it this way.
"Why would changes to content change the layout?"
Gee, you think adding paragraphs here and there might make a difference?
She still doesn't get it, but it's better now.
(Though she's still an idiot: "Why are there so many typefaces?" "There are only two typefaces" "Why is this font different from this one?" "Because the first one is a headline [sans serif] style and the second is body text [serif]" "Why don't you use all sans serif? It'll look better that way" "Well, because it's really hard to read text in a sans serif typeface" etc)
Here's the problem:
I already know that as long as I keep my mouth shut, I get into trouble. I end up looking stupid and feeling stupid and usually get into some sort of conflict or trouble. When I speak up for myself, though, I end up OK.
My mother always tells me to keep quiet so that I don't get into trouble and risk losing my job or whatever. She says that I just have to keep my head down and my mouth shut, because I need ANY job, etc.
That's where I learned to get into trouble, obviously, but I KNOW better. This is a lesson I've learned over and over and over again!
Why won't it stick? And have any of you experienced this sort of thing?
Posted by coral on November 9, 2000, at 21:17:58
In reply to Why can't I ever remember the lessons I learn????, posted by Racer on November 9, 2000, at 20:54:07
Dear Racer,
For Heaven's sake, that's not a lesson you need to remember!!!!I'm working with a client in a tech writing/prod department, filled with employees and sub-contractors who have been whipped into submission by an insensitive, incompetent manager and it is literally costing my client thousands upon thousands of dollars. To give you just a brief example, one sub-contractor working as a proof reader was working from THREE copies, edited by THREE different individuals to make the final to send to the client. As a pro, you can imagine the nightmare that ensued.
It's not speaking up that's the problem - the way in which you speak up could help the situation or make it worse. However, NOT speaking up makes it worse for you (NOT a good thing) and worse for your client.
So, dear Racer, please continue to speak up!!! If I can help, please let me know!Affectionately,
Coral
Posted by chdurie2 on November 10, 2000, at 1:00:23
In reply to Re: Why can't I ever remember the lessons I learn????, posted by coral on November 9, 2000, at 21:17:58
> Dear Racer,
> For Heaven's sake, that's not a lesson you need to remember!!!!
>
> I'm working with a client in a tech writing/prod department, filled with employees and sub-contractors who have been whipped into submission by an insensitive, incompetent manager and it is literally costing my client thousands upon thousands of dollars. To give you just a brief example, one sub-contractor working as a proof reader was working from THREE copies, edited by THREE different individuals to make the final to send to the client. As a pro, you can imagine the nightmare that ensued.
> It's not speaking up that's the problem - the way in which you speak up could help the situation or make it worse. However, NOT speaking up makes it worse for you (NOT a good thing) and worse for your client.
> So, dear Racer, please continue to speak up!!! If I can help, please let me know!
>
> Affectionately,
>
> CoralRacer--You have to learn to disagree without being disagreeable! It's an art I'm just beginning to learn. Qualifying everything you say helps ("I may be wrong, but..." - even when you know you're not) Asking rather than telling also helps: "Don't you think the typeface is more readable with two styles rather than one?" Complementing the person on stuff they do right or have the right attitude about before you zonk them with the criticism...stuff like that.
this weekend i went back to a place i haven't worked for a long time. there's a lot of communication via two-way radios, and all weekend, the two bosses kept saying: Caroline said THAT? LIKE THAT? cuz i guess my p-doc has been successful at helping me change my abrasive style. felt good.
hope this helps.
caroline
Posted by shar on November 10, 2000, at 9:52:00
In reply to Re: Why can't I ever remember the lessons I learn????, posted by chdurie2 on November 10, 2000, at 1:00:23
Racer,
We can't always remember everything. However, I always am very clear that when I'm working with draft materials I am providing a draft product.If you have a draft of the content, all you can offer is a draft of the layout. And, I know what a pain it is to work with people who don't know design, and want everything in the same font, or everything in a different font.
Hang in there-
Shar
Posted by Emmanuela on November 10, 2000, at 12:05:43
In reply to Re: Why can't I ever remember the lessons I learn????, posted by shar on November 10, 2000, at 9:52:00
Do you mean there is more than one font available in a layout? NOW you two tell me this. No wonder none of our products ever sold.
Posted by Racer on November 10, 2000, at 19:25:52
In reply to Why can't I ever remember the lessons I learn????, posted by Racer on November 9, 2000, at 20:54:07
Thank you, everyone, for all your kindness and support. It always gives me a warm feeling to know that someone's rooting for me.
The deep question above wasn't really the literal one, why must this client be SUCH an idiot, but the underlying one: I know that trying to avoid conflict always gets me in trouble, while speaking up for myself avoids that trouble. Why, then, do I constantly forget that lesson and try to avoid trouble by clamming up?
Secondary question: do any of you have similar questions you've had to learn and relearn over and over?
Tertiary* question: Why can't we ever get it drilled into our heads and save ourselves the frustration of having to learn it unpleasantly over and over and over again?
Thanks!
*Ain't that a great word? Very -- how shall I say it? -- Lumptonian!
Posted by medlib on November 10, 2000, at 20:29:19
In reply to Re: Why can't I ever remember the lessons I learn????, posted by Racer on November 10, 2000, at 19:25:52
> The deep question above wasn't really the literal one, why must this client be SUCH an idiot, but the underlying one: I know that trying to avoid conflict always gets me in trouble, while speaking up for myself avoids that trouble. Why, then, do I constantly forget that lesson and try to avoid trouble by clamming up?*** Because you learned 2 contradictory lessons, 1 from your mother and 1 from Reality--and mothers outrank Reality every time. (They were, after all, the first Reality.)
> Secondary question: do any of you have similar questions you've had to learn and relearn over and over?*** Of course! My unlearned lesson is: Reality, however bad, is never quite as bad as my avoidance of it.
> Tertiary* question: Why can't we ever get it drilled into our heads and save ourselves the frustration of having to learn it unpleasantly over and over and over again?*** To address such imponderable issues, I have formulated medlib's Law of Least Effort: "The only *truly* Irresistable Force is Inertia." Or, phrased colloquially, "When in doubt, Don't." This law seems to apply to all circumstances (at least for me).
Thanks for the thought-provoking questions!
Well wishes---medlib
Posted by chdurie2 on November 10, 2000, at 20:54:28
In reply to Re: Why can't I ever remember the lessons I learn????, posted by Racer on November 10, 2000, at 19:25:52
> Thank you, everyone, for all your kindness and support. It always gives me a warm feeling to know that someone's rooting for me.
>
> The deep question above wasn't really the literal one, why must this client be SUCH an idiot, but the underlying one: I know that trying to avoid conflict always gets me in trouble, while speaking up for myself avoids that trouble. Why, then, do I constantly forget that lesson and try to avoid trouble by clamming up?
>
> Secondary question: do any of you have similar questions you've had to learn and relearn over and over?
>
> Tertiary* question: Why can't we ever get it drilled into our heads and save ourselves the frustration of having to learn it unpleasantly over and over and over again?
>
> Thanks!
>
>racer- you're not alone. most of the trouble i've had in my life has come from my not having learned a life lesson when it first arose - thus, i keep making the same mistakes over and over. my greatest frustration is that i never seem to learn.what i said about disagreeing without being disagreeable - that phrase i stole from a book or mag article - is a biggie for me, but i must say i have made big strides there. i just worked on being nice and listened to how others expressed their criticism. even my p-doc and i don't fight anymore.
but i have lots more things where i keep making the same mistakes over and over again. recently i've been trying to re-establish myself as an antiques dealer after a long period of being "in hiding" with depression. every week i tell myself i'm going to start getting ready for my weekend shows on tuesday, and every week i don't, and there's this mad crush on thursday-friday, which sometimes exhausts me so much i'm too tired to go on saturday. every week i tell myself i'm just not as strong as i used to be, so i have to pace myself better. i procrastinate because i'm unfocused and fearful that i'll never have the success i used to again. meanwhile, i sabotage myself.
the reasons? let's see...my p-doc and i have come up with not treating myself so well because i don't deserve/can't handle success...i have an investment in blaming myself so i don't do things differently...i'm afraid to take a risk and perhaps make things better...depression is a habit that's hard to break...not participating in life is safer...
i'm sure if you look you'll find your own list. why do we beat our heads against the wall rather than change? cuz it's easier, and bad habits are tough to break.
but i've done some...i no longer stay up til dawn and sleep til 2. i'm at least pushing myself to confront my fear and anxiety over work. when i get in a tizzy and everything seems overwhelming and i cry, it's much shorter, isn't as big a production. i handle my moods better and do better self talk.
i think we change when we either want to change or when we have to change. sometimes for me, i have to get fed up enuf with myself - and sometimes it takes years to get fed up enuf that i change.
>caroline
> *Ain't that a great word? Very -- how shall I say it? -- Lumptonian!
Posted by shellie on November 11, 2000, at 0:08:18
In reply to Re: Many times...overandoverandover... » Racer, posted by chdurie2 on November 10, 2000, at 20:54:28
Years and years ago I read this on a poster: "Forgive Yourself-- Again and Again and Again and Again."
So, when I make the same mistake more than once, I actually say that to myself. Afterall, the poster could have just said "Forgive Yourself".
Posted by chdurie2 on November 11, 2000, at 11:10:58
In reply to Re: Many times...overandoverandover..., posted by shellie on November 11, 2000, at 0:08:18
> Years and years ago I read this on a poster: "Forgive Yourself-- Again and Again and Again and Again."
>
> So, when I make the same mistake more than once, I actually say that to myself. Afterall, the poster could have just said "Forgive Yourself".shellie-seriously, much thanks. i'll probably be using that one a lot. think i'll tape it to my refrigerator, desk, bed, tv set etc. so i remember
caroline
This is the end of the thread.
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