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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kilo8 on May 3, 2015, at 22:56:04
Hello,
I went to a psychiatrist mainly for new ideas about which antidepressants strategy I could employ next cause nothing works for me. I tried quite a lot already (lexapro,wellbutrin,stablon,remeron,cymbalta,clomipramine).
But then I had to find out he's not really very much into drugs and also doesn't know that much about them. For example I confronted him with ketamine and he didn't know anything about ketamine being investigated for depression and what mechanisms are behind it!!!
He said after hearing a bit about my problems (OCD since childhood, GAD since childhood, double depression) that basically antidepressants can't help me that my issues run much deeper and that the only thing which can help me is trying to find subconscious root causes through depth therapy and this will take YEARS!
This was totally discouraging to me. I mean I know that I have had these issues since a very early age. I also experienced a few things when I was young which weren't healthy (parents breaking up) BUT I dont know if I can simply blame it all on this. This seems to simple to me. I mean I know that I already had fears before they broke up. It could just as well be a mix between external factors and endogenous factors.I'm pretty discouraged now. I can't afford doing depth therapy for years without even knowing if anything will come out of it. The only one with a sure profit is the doctor.
ALSO how shall depth therapy and fishing in my past help me with problems which I struggle with NOW which totally drag me down all the time like for example having many health issues which overwhelm me? I dont see how this is supposed to help me with this.
I needed something which helps me deal with life NOW and not in years.What do you think about this? I mean are there people who are so messed up that drugs can help them but therapy can? I am sceptical of this.
I'd rather think that IF you can find a drug which works then this will be much more effective than talking.
I also made the personal experience that psychotherapy rather drags me down even more cause usually the therapist doesn't really say much at all. I just go through my problems which makes me feel worse and he sits there and hardly ever says anything helpful.
For example when I think about the current doctor said in the past 4 sessions then he only said 1 or 2 things which were a bit useless. 95% of the time is more or less simply wasted by me talking and he hardly says anything.
Posted by baseball55 on May 5, 2015, at 19:20:32
In reply to Pdoc said I'm too messed up to be helped by drugs!, posted by kilo8 on May 3, 2015, at 22:56:04
I don't know what "depth therapy" means. But if you don't feel a connection with this therapist/p-doc, find someone else. There are therapies which help with depression and do not take years - CBT, DBT, etc.
Posted by kilo8 on May 5, 2015, at 22:45:50
In reply to Re: Pdoc said I'm too messed up to be helped by drugs!, posted by baseball55 on May 5, 2015, at 19:20:32
Hi, depth psychotherapy seems to be a certain kind of PT just like CBT and others. I think it involves fishing in the past and trying to find root causes. To me this seems like a highly uncertain kind of approach. I mean even if I could find causes in my past who says that this will cure me?
What worries me though is that he implied that drugs won't be able to help me.
Posted by Poet on May 6, 2015, at 10:40:18
In reply to Pdoc said I'm too messed up to be helped by drugs!, posted by kilo8 on May 3, 2015, at 22:56:04
Hi Kilo8,
It sounds to me that your Pdoc is more into psychoanalysis than meds management: you do all the talking while he sits in silence and he didn't know about Ketamine. Maybe it's time to shop around for a new Pdoc: one that will listen to what you are asking about, re meds, rather than depth therapy.
I've been in therapy for 13 years and meds for nearly as long and the combination works for me. My therapist talks to me and is not fishing in the past, yes, sometimes it comes up, but what's happening in the present is what I need to deal with. FYI- depression, social anxiety and (bulimia- in remission.)
Poet
Posted by kilo8 on May 7, 2015, at 0:26:51
In reply to Re: Pdoc said I'm too messed up to be helped by drugs! » kilo8, posted by Poet on May 6, 2015, at 10:40:18
Hello,
I wont go to this doctor again. I realized that in 4 sessions he had hardly said anything helpful to me at all. I know better ways to waste my time.What worries me though is what if he's right and my issues are all rooted in the past and no drug can fix that? But then again how does talking fix that? I dont even remember much of my past so there's also not much to talk about.
Posted by Poet on May 8, 2015, at 14:21:30
In reply to Re: Pdoc said I'm too messed up to be helped by drugs!, posted by kilo8 on May 7, 2015, at 0:26:51
Hi Kilo8,
My first pdoc over medicated me and kept saying he would like to do therapy with me.
Current Pdoc (I still refer to her as Dr. Clueless, but she got a clue)does medication management, not therapy. I think you should find a Pdoc who does medication management as s/he should be up-to-date on meds.
Dr. Clueless encourages me to stay with my therapist as "it's good to have someone to talk to." So therapy and meds works for me, just not with the same person.
Poet
Posted by baseball55 on May 8, 2015, at 20:17:36
In reply to Re: Pdoc said I'm too messed up to be helped by drugs! » kilo8, posted by Poet on May 8, 2015, at 14:21:30
Dealing with losses and trauma from one's past can be important in dealing with depression. It was for me. But then again, I knew it would be for me, because I knew, on some vaguely conscious level, that my past was tormenting me. So I sought out "psycho-dynamic" therapy, which is based partly on addressing the past, but also partly on building a relationship with a therapist and learning to feel vulnerable and experience emotions.
But this type of therapy only works if you feel trust and connection to the therapist. And if you feel, in your heart, that you need to connect with someone and talk about your emotions. If you don't feel this need, and/or don't feel connection, this type of therapy won't work well.
For depression, CBT and DBT therapies often work, though these too only work if a strong emotional connection is formed.
You have to decide this for yourself. Do you feel a need to talk to someone? Do you feel a need to unburden yourself? Do you feel a need to have a person in your live who makes you feel cared for, unconditionally? Or do you just want to try medications that may improve your mood.
I think, intuitively, we know these things about ourselves.
Posted by kilo8 on May 9, 2015, at 0:44:22
In reply to Re: Pdoc said I'm too messed up to be helped by drugs!, posted by baseball55 on May 8, 2015, at 20:17:36
hello,
of course I'd like to have someone to talk to BUT if this person is a stranger (therapist) who also doesn't seem to really care and shows no empathy or emotions then how does this help me? then i can as well simply call a crisis hotline.
talking to someone who cares is worth much more than to a "professional".
when i talked to the therapist and told him about my illnesses he didnt seem affected at all. i was thinking that maybe this would make him feel sadness but i think it didn't. this also upsets me when i feel like he doesn't give a crap and to him this is just like hearing about a plane crash on the news.i have tried a few therapists now and they all sucked and didnt seem to care at all. i dont think that this is for me. like i said if the therapist doesnt care then what's it worth?
but why should therapists care? to them it's simply a job.
i also read on forums where people actually felt worse when they stopped therapy. i think therapy can also create many more problems for example when you become attached to the therapist and then have to stop. i see this as a danger.
Posted by baseball55 on May 12, 2015, at 19:48:18
In reply to Re: Pdoc said I'm too messed up to be helped by drugs!, posted by kilo8 on May 9, 2015, at 0:44:22
One of the things that made it easier for me to do therapy than, perhaps some others might find, was that I am a teacher. I love my job. I love my students. I care deeply about them. I look forward to going into work each day. But I would not go if I were not being paid.
So I understood that having a professional, paid relationship, does not preclude caring. Therapists are human and are people who've chosen to work in a profession where they deal with people in emotional distress. But they are not going to cry with you. They deal with people in distress all the time and their role is to help you cope with the distress and learn how to manage it. Hopefully, a good therapist can make you feel empathized with, even though the therapist does not shed tears or show that much emotion over your plight. the other thing I learned as a teacher, that therapists are also taught, is that you must preserve your emotional energy by setting boundaries. You can't take too much stuff home with you.
That being said, if your expectations and understanding of the limits and boundaries is realistic and you still can't feel the kind of connection you need to make you feel trusting and at ease, then you can't. Maybe at some later date, you might want to try and interview several people and see if you feel any might work. But, if not, whatever.
> hello,
> of course I'd like to have someone to talk to BUT if this person is a stranger (therapist) who also doesn't seem to really care and shows no empathy or emotions then how does this help me? then i can as well simply call a crisis hotline.
> talking to someone who cares is worth much more than to a "professional".
> when i talked to the therapist and told him about my illnesses he didnt seem affected at all. i was thinking that maybe this would make him feel sadness but i think it didn't. this also upsets me when i feel like he doesn't give a crap and to him this is just like hearing about a plane crash on the news.
>
> i have tried a few therapists now and they all sucked and didnt seem to care at all. i dont think that this is for me. like i said if the therapist doesnt care then what's it worth?
> but why should therapists care? to them it's simply a job.
> i also read on forums where people actually felt worse when they stopped therapy. i think therapy can also create many more problems for example when you become attached to the therapist and then have to stop. i see this as a danger.
Posted by kilo8 on May 15, 2015, at 4:30:25
In reply to Re: Pdoc said I'm too messed up to be helped by drugs!, posted by baseball55 on May 12, 2015, at 19:48:18
Hello,
I just had another attempt at therapy last months. Went there 4 times. First I felt good and had a good impression but at the 2nd and 3rd visit I already noticed it's not as good as I thought.
Then I ended it.
After the first visit I had this naive feeling that somebody's going to help me and everything will be fine and I'm no longer alone with my problems. This was so naive. But I simply long for this feeling that somebody's going to help me and stand by my side. But a therapist doesn't do that he only "helps" as long as you pay him.
I also noticed that the stuff he said to me didnt really help me at all and often times he didnt even say anything in reply to my problems but just sat there. Stuff like that doesnt help me.I'm really disillusioned. I dont think I will try therapy again. It's too upsetting for me. After the 2nd visit and the later visits I always felt much worse cause I was so upset and in inner turmoil cause I couldnt really figure out if he was good or not. Then I needed to talk to other people about it and get their opinion!
I could easily have gone to a second therapist to discuss what the first therapist said! :(
Posted by tony p on May 27, 2015, at 20:39:26
In reply to Re: Pdoc said I'm too messed up to be helped by drugs!, posted by kilo8 on May 15, 2015, at 4:30:25
Too messed up to be helped by drugs??? Drugs are at best 1/3 of the solution to most mental illnesses, but they're a start. They have brought me to the point where I can be helped by other forms of therapy.
There ARE some good psycho-therapists out there, I had a gem off and on for about 15 years, but how to find the right one I don't know other than word-of-mouth. Larry was an eclectic therapist, willing to pursue deep issues or just day-to-day stuff, using anything from CBT to hypnosis. And he never sat like a dummy (the old Carl Rogers model), he knew when to be proactive.
I am coming to believe that drugs are only helpful to kick-start therapy; there is evidence that long-term therapy with anti-depressants or anti-psychotics actually worsens the condition. See the thought provoking speech by Robert Whitaker, see http://therealtruthabouthealthconference.com/videos/robert-whitaker-anatomy-of-an-epidemic/?inf_contact_key=0a4e3a8a64c8dac7277085a320be63dca5d3d0ea82f661278814209d61609e16 or several speeches on YouTube.
Don't give up the search, somewhere out there is the right person for you -- these days not likely a pdoc, but a counselor. And have you considered group therapy? In my community there are free government-funded groups that I have found helpful. Good luck!
Posted by Zyprexa on May 31, 2015, at 22:19:01
In reply to Pdoc said I'm too messed up to be helped by drugs!, posted by kilo8 on May 3, 2015, at 22:56:04
I find it more usefull to talk to real people than a tdoc.
Also find it better to take medication.
Zyprexa
Ps maybe you need something stronger than an AD?
Posted by phidippus on July 28, 2015, at 15:32:46
In reply to Pdoc said I'm too messed up to be helped by drugs!, posted by kilo8 on May 3, 2015, at 22:56:04
ERP, CBT and ACT are considered first line treatments for OCD with SSRIs heralded as second line treatments. GAD is most often treated with antidepressants.
I think you need a new doctor.
Eric
Posted by kilo8 on September 9, 2015, at 12:49:08
In reply to Re: Pdoc said I'm too messed up to be helped by drugs! » kilo8, posted by phidippus on July 28, 2015, at 15:32:46
I'm not in the US. I don't know if there is such a thing as group therapy with a psychologist where I live. Maybe something like a self-help group with depressed people?
Anyway, I have tried 4 therapists and they all weren't helpful. I felt worse after each session. I don't think I will try it again it's too risky cause getting upset over a therapist who sucks makes me feel even worse.I'd also rather talk to people about my problems but I can't. I cannot talk about my problems with my parents cause then they'd worry even more about me and then I'd feel worse knowing that because of me they worry and feel bad.
In my situation they also can't help me. Talking to them wouldn't change anything.
Posted by Lamdage22 on September 30, 2015, at 14:02:51
In reply to Re: Pdoc said I'm too messed up to be helped by drugs!, posted by kilo8 on May 5, 2015, at 22:45:50
Posted by elanor roosevelt on November 28, 2015, at 16:22:30
In reply to Pdoc said I'm too messed up to be helped by drugs!, posted by kilo8 on May 3, 2015, at 22:56:04
find a new doctor
drugs can't just solve your problems
but they can help you make progress especially when combined with talk
therapy
This is the end of the thread.
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