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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on December 10, 2011, at 20:36:58
I wanted to do group therapy, but it's been impossible for me to find a group.
I gave up.
Anyone here ever do a group?
Posted by Dinah on December 10, 2011, at 21:34:07
In reply to quick.. someone say something psychological, posted by sleepygirl2 on December 10, 2011, at 20:36:58
I'm reasonably certain I couldn't tolerate group. I think I'll always be socially fragile.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on December 10, 2011, at 23:23:13
In reply to Re: quick.. someone say something psychological, posted by Dinah on December 10, 2011, at 21:34:07
hmm... Yeah, I'm glad you said that Dinah, because I feel that way too.
It sort of feels like the crux of my problem.
I like people though, parts of them ;-), when they're honest, and non critical, obvious and down to earth.
I do value alone time though. Maybe because it's time that I know I can relax in. I'm tense and guarded the majority of time that I'm with people, and I don't really tell others much of what I think.
Looking for a group kind of made me more cynical about the mental health field. I like my t and Pdoc, but so many people in mental health just suck. It's a business of course, I know that, but that doesn't mean all that much to a person trying to find some relief.
Posted by Phillipa on December 10, 2011, at 23:49:07
In reply to Re: quick.. someone say something psychological » Dinah, posted by sleepygirl2 on December 10, 2011, at 23:23:13
I can finally answer with experience on this board I attended group theraphy twice and absolutely loved it. It was so relaxed and listening to others stories was both informative and it was gratifying to give and receive advise from peers as the psychologist who held the groups was just there. Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on December 11, 2011, at 8:34:33
In reply to Re: quick.. someone say something psychological, posted by Phillipa on December 10, 2011, at 23:49:07
Maybe you could look into finding another group, Phillipa? Just because there wasn't one last time you looked doesn't mean there won't be one now. Good facilitating by the psychologist (even if he doesn't say much) matters a lot, I'd think.
Posted by Dinah on December 11, 2011, at 8:41:24
In reply to Re: quick.. someone say something psychological » Dinah, posted by sleepygirl2 on December 10, 2011, at 23:23:13
I agree about mental health providers. My impressions of some of them is not super-high. You're lucky to have two of the good ones.
I think I'm waaaay too rejection-sensitive to enjoy a process group. And the one time I went to the support group Debtors Anonymous, I had to fight the impulse to run out of the room. The tone was very supportive, but the emotions in the room were overwhelming and painful to me.
Why does your therapist think this would be a good idea for you? While it's true that a good experience with a group could be helpful with social phobia, a bad group could just exacerbate it by creating another traumatic experience.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on December 11, 2011, at 11:13:35
In reply to Re: quick.. someone say something psychological » sleepygirl2, posted by Dinah on December 11, 2011, at 8:41:24
My t didn't bring it up, and it was something I pursued on my own. He didn't oppose the idea though.
I have enough day to day interaction that I feel exposed anyway. I think most disapprove of me anyway, so if they were up front about it, I wouldn't be shocked.
Here's where my t pops into my head and say something like "do you think other people are afraid of rejection too?".
My Pdoc might suggest that I don't like the other people I imagine not liking me. That last one could be true since I just don't like people that I perceive as overly judgmental.As for mental health providers in general, I suppose they've got those human limitations, biases and self interest that they carry with them. The problem is that their sweeping judgments would seem to hold some type of power, backed up by some assumed authority on the topic of humanity.
I mean the sh*t I still carry with me because of some idiot in authority's ignorant statement is ridiculous.One that comes to mind...
High school (what traumas they can hold)
I was in a section of classes of kids expected to do well academically. I wasn't openly disrespectful of authority at the time, just didn't perform, and did so quietly, consumed on a daily basis with disabling anxiety and pessimism. The principal (a nun- so much for religious compassion) told me with disdain, that she "felt sorry for my mother", I was already deeply ashamed of myself.
Also, post impulsive overdose earlier this year...
My biggest regret was calling that stupid hotline. (I suppose I was afraid that I had taken too much, but I imagined I would "just talk" to someone.). Well, sitting there, in the hospital, imprisoned, the "doctor"-acquaintance of a few minutes, tells me "your doctor is very disappointed in you. He says you've been labile for weeks.".
The following is fictional: I say "Oh, you know sister jackass?". "Ah yes, it's true, I'm a disappointment in every sense of the word, truly a burden to the world. May I kindly exit this facility as I am beneath the dirt under your feet? Since I'm not dead, and was likely never going to be, can I crawl back into the hole from which I came?".
"As far as my mood lability goes, I apologize for my wanton ways. The medicinal agents I was prescribed likely, and understandably, objected to me as well."Eh... I've gone on too long, and forgotten how this related to the point.
Posted by Reggie BoStar on December 11, 2011, at 16:04:43
In reply to quick.. someone say something psychological, posted by sleepygirl2 on December 10, 2011, at 20:36:58
I've done many groups. The problem around here (Southern NH) is that many of the groups are disappearing for various reasons.
Like any other kind of therapy, it takes some getting used to. I don't like social situations either, but I found that by "shopping around" I could choose groups with small numbers of patients and in comfortable settings. If anything seemed wrong, I just got up and left, or didn't go into the room in the first place.
Even so, it took me some time to get used to "fessing up" around other people. The best way seemed to be letting other people talk first, however the meeting is formatted (round-robin speaking, or volunteer speaking by raising hands or something). Once I heard what was going on with other people in the group, I realized that many of them were as troubled as I was, and a few were much worse off. As a result I didn't feel so intimidated by talking about my own problems.
Here are a few types I've attended, with comments:
AA - Forget "dual diagnosis" of substance abuse and psychological problems. Also, I'm agnostic. It stunk. However, it's also free.
Dual Diagnosis - these were probably the best for substance abusers with psychological problems, because they proactively address both issues. The ones I went to happened to be moderated by healthcare workers who specialized in addiction counseling. This is probably a must, because you need someone there who is cognizant of various treatments, and who is not prejudiced by personal success or failure with those treatments. These tended to be free.
DBT (Dialectical Behavioral Therapy): these groups are usually held by trained therapists. Typically they can be found in your area by using the internet to search for therapists who specialize in DBT, or even in the yellow pages of your old fashioned phone book that was made from the last remaining Amazon rain forest trees.
I digress. DBT groups were structured, with round-robin speaking and practice assignments taken from a workbook. It was actually pretty good, not work at all.
To date I've completed two DBT groups. I tried a few others, but didn't complete the therapy cycle for reasons already stated above.
Both DBT groups I completed ran for a "term" of about 16 weeks, one meeting per week, cost determined by each person's financial situation. I wound up paying them cash, around 40 bucks per session. It was worth it.
Having trained therapists as moderators helps you get used to the group discussions easily. It's not socially uncomfortable at all.
Except for maybe one thing... I don't know why but DBT groups tend to consist of mostly women. In fact, in every group I either tried or successfully completed, I was the only guy. The rest were always women, half a dozen or so, and always much younger than I was (of course most people are, anyway).
For whatever reason, many of the women were experiencing relationship problems that they wanted to try to address with DBT. I didn't care for groups dominated by such relationship issues. The groups I completed were those with women who were experiencing a mix of problems, not just relationship issues.
Those who are uncomfortable with a gender mix like that, or who don't want to hear about relationship issues all the time, might have a hard time finding a comfortable DBT group.
Here's a Wiki article on DBT for some background information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_behavior_therapy
DBSA (Bipolar): these groups can be found by looking for that acronym with the word "bipolar". For the most part they're good: free, volunteer speaking by show of hand, great way to share experiences with other Bipolar sufferers if that's your problem.
Also: the gender mix is about even.
The drawbacks are: 1. The meetings tend to be large. 2. The moderators are usually volunteers who also suffer from bipolar depression. Depending on what state they're in, the meetings can be a little disorganized.
But they're free and walk-in, so if a particular meeting isn't going well for those reasons, leave and try next week's meeting.
I learned a lot about bipolar depression, the two types, and the spectrum of experiences of people with either type.
Therapist Moderated: these are small groups that focus on specific behavioral health issues. I found out about these mostly through my own therapist (who conducted such groups himself and recommended others) and psychiatrist. The meetings are usually not free, paid by whatever the patient can arrange with insurance and pocket cash. Once again, 30-40 bucks seemed to be the rule for someone in my impoverished situation.
The value of these groups is that they're so focused on what's ailing you, and they acquaint you with the experience of other patients with very similar diagnoses. The ones I've been to are small, maybe 3 to 5 people, and very comfortable.
That's about it. Unfortunately, as I said in the openers, such meetings are gradually disappearing around here - both the paid and free versions.
I'm getting worried about the future of group therapy sessions around here. If this keeps up, the only option will be AA. For me, that's not much of an option.
Hope this information helped. For me it's definitely been an acquired taste. I had to shop around a lot. In the end, though, it was worth it.
Best wishes for a good holiday season,
Reggie BoStar
Posted by sleepygirl2 on December 11, 2011, at 17:03:34
In reply to Re: quick.. someone say something psychological » sleepygirl2, posted by Reggie BoStar on December 11, 2011, at 16:04:43
Thanks for the info :-)
The group I wanted was a process type one with a therapist.
I couldn't find anything.
Posted by Phillipa on December 11, 2011, at 17:43:48
In reply to Re: quick.. someone say something psychological » Reggie BoStar, posted by sleepygirl2 on December 11, 2011, at 17:03:34
Same here and as Reggie said disappeared seems therapists have also disappeared. Figure that is because of economy. Will google group theraphy again in my area. Phillipa
Posted by pegasus on December 14, 2011, at 12:15:12
In reply to quick.. someone say something psychological, posted by sleepygirl2 on December 10, 2011, at 20:36:58
I don't have much to say about groups. But I wanted to tell you that I liked your thread title. I've been thinking that lately too, with all the silence here. I miss talking to everyone more.
To stay on topic, I've been in a few groups, and find that it triggers my issues around being less important than other people. I find it hard to contribute. Everyone else seems more assertive, and more deserving of time than me. I tend to quit groups early. It mainly makes me feel awful about myself. I imagine if I could ever bring that into a group, there is good work to be done on that issue. But . . . the obstacles are big.
- Peg
Posted by Reggie BoStar on December 14, 2011, at 14:42:14
In reply to Re: quick.. someone say something psychological » sleepygirl2, posted by pegasus on December 14, 2011, at 12:15:12
Hey Pegasus,
That could depend a lot on how the groups are moderated. If a moderator can't handle any narcissists who happen to be in a group, the latter tend to dominate the discussion to the point where no one else can get a word in edgewise. In those situations everyone else is shut down, not just the folks who feel uncomfortable expressing themselves in a group.I've seen it both ways in the many types of groups I've attended. In the early days I would talk to the moderators of such dysfunctional groups privately, or with some of the other group members, to try to fix things so everyone would get a fair amount of time to talk.
Later, I stopped bothering with that and just stopped going to those particular groups. For whatever reasons, it seemed that many of those particular moderators were as locked into their behaviors as the narcissists were.
That said, those were the minority of the cases. The majority of moderated groups I've attended have been managed efficiently, so that everyone got a chance to speak, and the narcissists got the help they needed to work on their problems too.
If you can find a group with a moderator that knows how to do that - give equal time to everyone, whether they're dominant, submissive, neither - you've struck gold.
Of course, non-moderated groups are an open crap shoot with infinite-sided dice. Anything can happen in different groups, or in the same group on a week to week basis. The best you can hope for is a narcissist who knows how to manage therapy groups!!!
Over time I've found that the best moderated groups are those whose moderators are psychology healthcare folks: psychiatrists, psychotherapists, or social workers who specialize in therapy. I don't have biases for those particular moderator types - it's just the way things worked out for me. In other areas it could easily be different, but around here those are the types of moderated groups I try to find.
Hope this helps somehow,
Reggie BoStar
Posted by sleepygirl2 on December 14, 2011, at 18:47:17
In reply to Re: quick.. someone say something psychological » sleepygirl2, posted by pegasus on December 14, 2011, at 12:15:12
Thanks. I was grasping at straws for something to bring up. I suppose I don't have the time or the money fir a group anyway, but it was a nice thought.
When I was looking for one I got a couple of those "I'm/we're in the process of forming a group.", and then nothing,
I was googling for the heck of it recently and some things popped up, don't know if I'll bother investigating. I might be better off taking a class or something. Something cheap!
Posted by Willful on December 15, 2011, at 9:50:52
In reply to Re: quick.. someone say something psychological » pegasus, posted by sleepygirl2 on December 14, 2011, at 18:47:17
I've been in two process groups and I found them difficult but a learning experience, especially afterward when I had time to work through some of the issues that got in the way.
I'd like to be in a group now, but I'm just too busy. I do go to meditate at a nearby meditation center. That is, I've gone for a few weeks. It's certainly not a process group, but one thing I do notice is that people's honest express of thoughts and hindrances is really enlightening and thought-provoking. The meditation leaders also say very good and insightful and helpful things. I think a lot of how a group goes depends on how you approach it. In the old days, I was much more adversarial and critical of people or of group dynamics that I noticed. Now I feel more supported and really interested and moved by many things people say.
If you're open to others, at least somewhat, you can find a lot of meaning and deepening in interactions.
One of the things I 've heard is that the Buddha (I'm not a Buddhist, but I think the Buddha was remarkable and truly incredible person) was that the three refuges-- I guess you find refuge in your journey toward enlightenment, or towards relief from suffering-- are the Buddha, the Dharma (the teachings of the Buddha) and the Sangha (the community of seekers). The Buddha also said, that the most important of these was the sangha. And I've found that there's a lot of strength you can get from being with others in your practice (whatever it is of).
I have trouble with people and that's one of the main reasons I want to practice with others, and learn more of their practice (and life) experience.
Willful
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