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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2010, at 11:47:57
In reply to Re: I long to be interesting. » Dinah, posted by Solstice on November 14, 2010, at 9:08:10
Some say your brain tries to deal with the stresses you are under or something you are trying to come to terms with. I've heard different rooms of the home also signify different things. Any truth in this? Lately my dreams are horrible always running away. I think it means running away from old age. As for the toilet silly but once read dreams that take place where you are cleaning signify cleaning out so called garbage from your past. So the dream could be good. Phillipa
Posted by sigismund on November 14, 2010, at 12:39:00
In reply to I long to be interesting. (nm), posted by Dinah on November 14, 2010, at 8:23:37
>I long to be interesting
I suppose every quality comes at the cost of something else, just a certain economy, but you are interesting, of course.People have been reading you with interest for years.
Posted by Solstice on November 14, 2010, at 14:40:37
In reply to Re: I long to be interesting. » Solstice, posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2010, at 11:47:57
> Some say your brain tries to deal with the stresses you are under or something you are trying to come to terms with. I've heard different rooms of the home also signify different things. Any truth in this?
Very little is understood about dreams, so it's anybody's guess. My own frequently are clearly representative of stressors in my life that have been troubling me, or unresolved deeply held wishes. Anxieties and fears, you know?
Posted by Dinah on November 14, 2010, at 15:40:39
In reply to Re: I long to be interesting. » Phillipa, posted by Solstice on November 14, 2010, at 14:40:37
I think I when I said interesting, I was thinking deep and mysterious. I suppose I ought to recognize there are other ways to be interesting. :)
I do have a sleep disorder, which might affect how much I remember my dreams.
Thank you for the kind words, Solstice. I really appreciate your saying that.
Posted by Solstice on November 14, 2010, at 16:11:57
In reply to Re: I long to be interesting., posted by Dinah on November 14, 2010, at 15:40:39
> I think I when I said interesting, I was thinking deep and mysterious. I suppose I ought to recognize there are other ways to be interesting. :)
Ha! Deep and mysterious? Well.. you *are* deep (those who are 'deep' often don't realize it because to them it's just 'normal') As for mysterious.. I'll just say that mysterious doesn't = interesting. I suppose Bob is considered mysterious, but you are FAR more interesting than he is.. by a looong shot! So, I'm glad you're not mysterious..
:-) Sol
Posted by emmanuel98 on November 14, 2010, at 19:35:55
In reply to Re: I long to be interesting. » Dinah, posted by Solstice on November 14, 2010, at 16:11:57
I once saw a cartoon where a fairy touched a woman with a wand and said "may all your dreams come true." In the next frame the women was naked in the middle of a classroom and a teacher was saying, about that algebra test you missed...
Most dreams are either brain dumps (I woke up from a nap dreaming about diet coke - I have no idea what the context was) or obvious anxiety dreams. Sometimes I have exciting or beautiful dreams, but those a memorable because they are so rare.
A problem I have is that I walk in my sleep sometimes. Once I came half awake and remembered it, but once I walked into my daughter's room and told her there was a door I needed to go through but couldn't find it. She walked me back to bed and apparently I sat on the bed with my eyes open going on and on about this door I needed to find. Once I woke up and found a coffee cup full of red wine (which my husband drinks, not me). I must have gone downstairs and poured it, but I have no recollection of this. I don't know how many other times this has happened and nobody witnessed it and I don't remember. It scares me a little.
Posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2010, at 19:52:10
In reply to Re: I long to be interesting., posted by emmanuel98 on November 14, 2010, at 19:35:55
My Son did this as a child one night awoke to him sitting in the bathtub and letting water in the tub he was fast asleep. Put him back to bed. When older one night he banged open our bedroom door walked into the Master Bath and Urinated and walked back to bed. I used to worry when we would boat to the islands and camp that he'd walk into the water at night. But he didn't. Dreams are for me usually anxiety related like when nursing rushing around not finding patients and their meds were late and being frantic about it then waking up. And Dinah you are very interesting. Phillipa
Posted by pegasus on November 15, 2010, at 14:15:39
In reply to My subconscious is boring, posted by Dinah on November 13, 2010, at 14:24:27
I love it. I have those dreams all the time, too. For example, I'll dream that I'm doing laundry. As if I don't spend enough time on that when I'm awake.
In your case, I actually find the dream interesting. What captures my attention is the fact that at first you don't know why the water is blue. And then you come up with a logical explanation. If that were my dream, the blueness, and the fact that it surprises me, would be saying something about how things that I expect to be worthless sometimes surprisingly turn out to be more interesting than expected.
The fact that it turned out to be the tablet would be my unconscious saying something like, "Don't try to make this dream interesting! You're not allowed to "get" what I'm working on in this dream!"
- P
Posted by vwoolf on November 16, 2010, at 15:15:44
In reply to My subconscious is boring, posted by Dinah on November 13, 2010, at 14:24:27
I don't think it is boring at all. I think you are not looking at the elements in it that are interesting, some of which are only present through their absence.
For example, what are toilets about? What are they for, what do you do there, what do you associate with them? Any memories of toilets? It might be helpful for you to note them, write them down, perhaps a pageful? Associate freely.
Write a description of a toilet, being as concrete as possible.
Amplify these associations.
Amplify into images from films, literature, fairy tales etc.
Bring the image into the room. How do you relate to it, how does it affect you?
My sense is that blue is not usually associated with toilets. But that might just be my interpretation. What colours do you associate with toilets?
Faeces and urine are expelled into toilets as unwanted products of the body. Your toilet is blue, and it startled you. What did you expect?
Faeces and urine are unmetabolised unprocessed, unmediated experiences. But your toilet is blue, it does not have these, everything is sanitised by the blue tablet.
Is your unconscious telling you that you are covering up experiences?
Or something of the sort?
I think there's a lot to be explored there.
Posted by sigismund on November 16, 2010, at 16:21:21
In reply to Re: My subconscious is boring, posted by vwoolf on November 16, 2010, at 15:15:44
>Faeces and urine are unmetabolised unprocessed, unmediated experiences. But your toilet is blue, it does not have these, everything is sanitised by the blue tablet.
>Is your unconscious telling you that you are covering up experiences?
>Or something of the sort?
I'm impressed.
I've been feeling that I was a bit flip or something saying Dinah was interesting, as if I had purposely missed the point which (I now reflect) I have more or less forgotten. Except that Dinah did not mean that her ideas were not interesting, even though I have found them so (Montesorri stuff in particular). Maybe it is the fate of well organised people to feel (what? I dunno) a bit unimaginative?
Posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 17:21:28
In reply to Re: My subconscious is boring, posted by vwoolf on November 16, 2010, at 15:15:44
I'd meant to mention it to my therapist today, but I thought I forgot my dog's breakfast in the oven and had a hard time thinking of anything else but the possibility of burning the house down.
As it turns out, I had taken it out to cool, but forgotten to feed it to her. :(
It's true that I don't use the blue tablets, which is probably why I was surprised. Someone else had gone into my bathroom and cleaned my toilet!
That might mean something I suppose.
Sadly, however, a reminder to clean the toilet was not amiss and I was actually a bit thankful to my subconscious. I often wake up thinking of something I've forgotten to do. Unfortunately the list is long. Perhaps my very mundane dreams are for this important purpose.
Still, I'll bring it up to my therapist. Not that he's overly good at dreams.
Posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 17:35:47
In reply to Re: My subconscious is boring, posted by sigismund on November 16, 2010, at 16:21:21
> Except that Dinah did not mean that her ideas were not interesting, even though I have found them so (Montesorri stuff in particular). Maybe it is the fate of well organised people to feel (what? I dunno) a bit unimaginative?
Well organized? Me? If I were better organized, my subconscious wouldn't have to remind me to clean the toilet.I think I got a bit lost. You said that I didn't mean that my ideas were uninteresting? But that you yourself find them uninteresting? Did I miss a negative?
I wasn't really saying anything at all about my ideas. Or about my imagination or lack thereof. I was saying that there doesn't seem to be much going on below my conscious mind.
Posted by sigismund on November 16, 2010, at 19:54:17
In reply to Re: My subconscious is boring » sigismund, posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 17:35:47
> Did I miss a negative?
I thought I had it right but I feel too stupid to re-evaluate it.
>Well organized? Me? If I were better organized, my subconscious wouldn't have to remind me to clean the toilet.
This may be true.
Unless your subconscious is telling you that your processing of the world is already too thorough.
I'm glad you don't use those awful blue things.
Posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 19:58:58
In reply to Re: My subconscious is boring » Dinah, posted by sigismund on November 16, 2010, at 19:54:17
> > Did I miss a negative?
>
> I thought I had it right but I feel too stupid to re-evaluate it.I think you did. I understand, thank you.
Posted by Dinah on November 20, 2010, at 8:31:08
In reply to Re: My subconscious is boring » Dinah, posted by sigismund on November 16, 2010, at 19:54:17
Sigi:
Except that Dinah did not mean that her ideas were not interesting, even though I have found them so (Montesorri stuff in particular). Maybe it is the fate of well organised people to feel (what? I dunno) a bit unimaginative?Me:
I think I got a bit lost. You said that I didn't mean that my ideas were uninteresting? But that you yourself find them uninteresting? Did I miss a negative?Sigi:
I thought I had it right but I feel too stupid to re-evaluate it.I find it distressing that my therapist falls asleep on me. I was devastated to learn that you find my ideas uninteresting. Although I recognize that such is likely always true, it must be bad indeed for a man I have always observed to be a gentleman to have pointed it out.
I recognize that suffering is a part of life, but the most important part of the serenity prayer is "the wisdom to know the difference". Please, I beg you, do not feel you need to read my posts. I would spare you the pain of boredom, yet I fear that I will never be more imaginative or less thorough than is my nature.
Posted by lucielu2 on November 22, 2010, at 21:57:03
In reply to Re: My subconscious is boring » sigismund, posted by Dinah on November 20, 2010, at 8:31:08
Dinah,
Please do not feel hurt. I think there must have been some miscommunication because I cannot imagine Sigi or anyone seriously thinking for a moment that you are not interesting! The only one who tends to think you are not is you, and I think you've tapped into a human condition sort of thing because most of us harbor such fears at one point or another. But uninteresting - seriously? No. No one can accuse you of that :-)
Lucie
Posted by 10derheart on November 23, 2010, at 22:53:46
In reply to Re: My subconscious is boring » sigismund, posted by Dinah on November 20, 2010, at 8:31:08
Dinah,
I really think this was a complete misunderstanding, caused by the order of words and punctuation in a compound sentence. I can't believe sigi would write what it seems like you think he wrote. I thought when he said he was "too stupid to re-evaluate..." it was kinda another way of saying (as I would have in my inelegant and mainly vernacular style), "oh, cr*p, I really messed up that sentence, and I thought I'd done such a smooth job writing it/getting my point out..."
Makes no sense he would label you uninteresting and specifically mention Montesorri while doing so. Isn't it far more likely he'd specifically recall something and mention it because he **did** find it interesting?
I hope you two have this cleared up already and I am wasting my fingertip-energy even typing this.
-- 10der
PS - Neither of you are boring, dull, stupid, uninteresting or anything remotely similar to those things!!
Posted by sigismund on November 24, 2010, at 0:05:16
In reply to Re: My subconscious is boring » sigismund, posted by Dinah on November 20, 2010, at 8:31:08
I'm not very good on double negatives, though sometimes it is necessary to use them to limit the meaning.
I didn't understand Dinah's post. The very last sentence felt like a polite 'please do not post to me'.
I then felt like quoting from the Tao Te Ching
'He who knows when enough is enough will be able to avoid misfortune'.All this is complicated by the fact that Dinah wasn't saying she is boring but rather her subconscious. V.W. had the best take on that.
Posted by sigismund on November 24, 2010, at 0:17:42
In reply to Re: My subconscious is boring » sigismund, posted by Dinah on November 20, 2010, at 8:31:08
>But that you yourself find them uninteresting? Did I miss a negative?
NB.....THIS IS ABOUT IDEAS, JUST TO BE CLEAR.I see I've missed the point (again) in my previous post.
Dinah, come one, how could you think that? You have posted one tightly reasoned highly intelligent post after another for years on end.
I had thought the issue was that we had offended each others' core values one too many times, but now I see (I think) that it is simpler
When I was talking about being too stupid I was referring to trying to understand this
>Sigi:
>Except that Dinah did not mean that her ideas were not interesting, even though I have found them so (Montesorri stuff in particular).
rather than
>You said that I didn't mean that my ideas were uninteresting?Even though I have found them so....meaning (inaccurately) that I have found them interesting
Now I see.
Oh dear, what a tangled lot of nonsense it all is.
Dinah, truly......
Posted by 10derheart on November 24, 2010, at 1:09:57
In reply to Re: My subconscious is boring » Dinah, posted by sigismund on November 24, 2010, at 0:17:42
>>Oh dear, what a tangled lot of nonsense it all is.
Yes, but not on purpose, it just happened when you both were innocently trying to discuss ideas. People (we all, you, me, anyone...) can have sensitive days where there's no stopping us from jumping to the worst conclusions about ourselves and grasping onto something ( an awkwardly stated remark...) to **prove** we're not good enough, or some such thing. I speak from vast experience.
Dinah - maybe that's what happened to you here?
It'll be okay now. I know it. No harm, no foul, I say.
I hope I haven't overstepped, though. I just couldn't stand seeing this left hanging....
Posted by Dinah on November 24, 2010, at 2:23:57
In reply to Re: My subconscious is boring » Dinah, posted by sigismund on November 24, 2010, at 0:17:42
I'm sorry you find it nonsense.
Ok, I tried to clarify it before, but perhaps I did not ask clearly enough.
You said "Except that Dinah did not mean that her ideas were not interesting, ****even though I have found them so (Montesorri stuff in particular).**** Maybe it is the fate of well organised people to feel (what? I dunno) a bit unimaginative?"
If I remove all other parts of the sentence about what you think I believe, which of the two following phrases properly conveys your intent?
A) I have found Dinah's ideas (on Montessori stuff in particular) *interesting*?
or
B) I have found Dinah's ideas (on Montessori stuff in particular) *uninteresting*?
This is what I was previously trying to clarify.
I do understand that you are speaking of my ideas, not of me as a person.
Posted by sigismund on November 24, 2010, at 4:23:33
In reply to Re: My subconscious is boring » sigismund, posted by Dinah on November 24, 2010, at 2:23:57
What I meant by tangle is that I can't understand any of it (all those double negatives).
Except for
>A) I have found Dinah's ideas (on Montessori stuff in particular) *interesting*?
and, yes, I found your ideas about Montessori very interesting.
As I've said our kids went to a Steiner school for quite a few years, so that was part of the reason.
Posted by Dinah on November 24, 2010, at 6:45:50
In reply to Re: My subconscious is boring » Dinah, posted by sigismund on November 24, 2010, at 4:23:33
I am sorry for misunderstanding Sigi. It did seem out of character for what I have always known of you to say that (which is why I had asked for clarification). The surprise was what hurt.
And perhaps it did bring up echoes of my therapist falling asleep. A person I esteem appearing to indicate that I was uninteresting.
You know, I don't find my core values offended by you. I hadn't really noticed any difference at all. But for those times I have offended yours, I very much regret it. It wasn't my intent.
Posted by Solstice on November 24, 2010, at 7:46:28
In reply to Re: My subconscious is boring, posted by lucielu2 on November 22, 2010, at 21:57:03
> Dinah,
>
But uninteresting - seriously? No. No one can accuse you of that :-)
>
> LucieYou're not kidding on that one! Dinah's posts have fascinated me for years. And it's not that she's the *only* one who is interesting... it's just that she's the one who has been the most consistently interesting to me :-)
Solstice
Posted by Dinah on November 24, 2010, at 11:50:28
In reply to Re: My subconscious is boring, posted by Solstice on November 24, 2010, at 7:46:28
It is very kind of both of you.
It's funny. I don't think I think in terms of being interesting or not in general. Perhaps my dreams only bother me because I think perhaps my therapist would find that interesting. I'm not sure.
I think perhaps I try not to think of myself as I appear to others.
About the dreams, I was talking in chat the other night and realized that it isn't true that I never dreamed. I had a dream in my early years of therapy that I brought to my therapist in all innocence. When I finished recounting it, I looked up (something I rarely did at that time) and saw that he seemed to be trying not to look amused. Suddenly it came to me that the dream was heavily and obviously loaded with sexual symbolism, and he was either amused that I had missed it or didn't really believe that I had.
It's not that I haven't remembered symbolic dreams since then. I have, and they've usually involved him. I told my therapist this yesterday and he suggested that perhaps my dreams are safely hiding where I won't recall them and mention them to him. Which makes sense. I might be remembering the dreams that I want to discuss with him.
He also stole my daydreams. :( Or at least my active life of daydreams, which gave me a great deal of pleasure, disappeared after he asked about the contents.
This is the end of the thread.
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